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Best gaming PC builder?

Equilibrium said:
Actually we offer TEC Thermoelectric cooling which is not offered at any of the competitors. We have reported a -60 degree temperature for our CPU's and GPU's. We are also working on a TEC based hard drive cooler as well. By the way seeker thanks for giving us a chance because we really want to work hard to get us mainstream in the business. Just to give you some info, you can go to alienware or any of the others and our price will be pretty close to theirs. As for the configurator not working that has to do with us still working on the exact prices and we feel that it is not ready for the public. We will release that as soon as we can.
Click to expand...


If you are offering TEC cooling, shouldn't you charge more? You are going to need the extra profit because I have a feeling you will have a LOT more RMAs then everyone else. Also, how are you going to cover the warranty on stuff like processors and motherboards? Hard to believe ASUS would due a warranty replacement on a motherboard that has traces of neoprene and liquid electric tape all over it. I dont know, it seems like an awful small market to try to cater to, and with all the extra risks you are taking that other competitors aren't, you should try to have a higher margin than them.

Opening a website with dead links and whatnot like the one person suggested isn't a big deal to me. I see that from sites like MSN and Yahoo, so why would I hold you to a higher standard?

I am curious, what imaging software are you using for your recovery DVDs?
 
My advice is not gold, but it is experienced, and i wish your business the very best of luck - really. If you're business really gets good business after it 'is' live and you just do your best and follow through personally with nearly every order until you get enough people you can trust to help with that (you may have already), then that's what matters most. When i first started it really helped when i placed a phone call to the person/s or company a week later to ask them how well their new system/s were running, and if there was anything else (identify yourself and your company) could do for them they really liked that. Really nice company badges with your companies name on them? You have that covered i'm sure. :)
 
Eickst said:
If you are offering TEC cooling, shouldn't you charge more? You are going to need the extra profit because I have a feeling you will have a LOT more RMAs then everyone else. Also, how are you going to cover the warranty on stuff like processors and motherboards? Hard to believe ASUS would due a warranty replacement on a motherboard that has traces of neoprene and liquid electric tape all over it. I dont know, it seems like an awful small market to try to cater to, and with all the extra risks you are taking that other competitors aren't, you should try to have a higher margin than them.

Opening a website with dead links and whatnot like the one person suggested isn't a big deal to me. I see that from sites like MSN and Yahoo, so why would I hold you to a higher standard?

I am curious, what imaging software are you using for your recovery DVDs?
Click to expand...
Yes our profit margin is higher with our monsoon personal computer. It is a little pricy but no higher then Alienware's ALX which is a normal liquid cooled computer by Koolance. For our monsoon we use a dual liquid cooling system which has 2 pumps and 2 reservoirs. It has 1 tripple 120mm radiator and 1 dual 80mm radiator. The reason we do this is so that the temperature of the water does not get too hot cooling 2 TEC's on one system so we have a dedicated system for each TEC. What we are hoping to do is actually lower the wattage on the internal power supply controlling the TEC's to only make the cpu's temp around a comfortable 60 degrees while overclocking. We use Norton Ghost for our restore disk.
 
I used the same easy and fast. There will be those though that just want a stand alone real copy of XP/Vista.
 
zone_86 said:
I used the same Easy and fast. There will be those though that just want a stand alone real copy of XP/Vista.
Click to expand...
We automatically give the customer the original Windows XP Cd along with the restore disk.
 
Equilibrium said:
We automatically give the customer the original Windows XP Cd along with the restore disk.
Click to expand...
Are you an MS OEM System Builder? Have you checked with licensing issues on that?
 
I guess what i meant was that i had customers that didn't want the restore disk. These were usually very advanced users. But it's really good that you actually will be including a real copy of XP. Will you have an OEM (your company) tagged bios? Or just the retail mainboard bios?
 
zone_86 said:
I guess what i meant was that i had customers that didn't want the restore disk. These were usually very advanced users. But it's really good that you actually will be including a real copy of XP. Will you have an OEM (your company) tagged bios? Or just the retail mainboard bios?
Click to expand...
We are working on getting our logo on startup in the future.

Are you an MS OEM System Builder? Have you checked with licensing issues on that?
Click to expand...

It is not required but thanks for the tip: http://www.microsoft.com/oem/default.mspx
 
Morley said:
I'm talking about offering two copies of windows media. There are licensing issues there. Perhaps you should join the OEM system builder program and learn all about it...
Click to expand...
Why would there be an issue if you only provide 1 key?

The logo is REAL easy. You need a 640x464 bitmap in 16 color, the latest BIOS update bin file, and a program called CBROM. It will allow you to change the logo in the BIOS file.

Actually, scratch that. Instead of CBROM use AwardMOD. It can be found at

http://sourceforge.net/projects/awardmod/
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for the program. :)
 
Equilibrium said:
Why would there be an issue if you only provide 1 key?



Thanks very much for the program. :)
Click to expand...


Don't mention it about the program. Not like I wrote it :p


The issue with the MS license is that you are providing another media with an image of the software on it. Unfortunately, I think it's against their licensing policy for OEM software. I could be mistaken, it's been a long time since I have looked at it (or cared about their license anyway, I mean, they say it isn't actually your software and that you are leasing it, but when you have a problem, its your software all of a sudden).
 
Eickst said:
Don't mention it about the program. Not like I wrote it :p


The issue with the MS license is that you are providing another media with an image of the software on it. Unfortunately, I think it's against their licensing policy for OEM software. I could be mistaken, it's been a long time since I have looked at it (or cared about their license anyway, I mean, they say it isn't actually your software and that you are leasing it, but when you have a problem, its your software all of a sudden).
Click to expand...
Well I dont think there is an issue but I will definately research it.
 
Equilibrium said:
Well I dont think there is an issue but I will definately research it.
Click to expand...
There is a reason why you only get the original media OR a restore disk from an established systems integrator.
 
This forum is great. I have loved all the people posting here. Especially the start up system builders. It is fun reading.

My company has been in business for almost 6 years building PCs (1999) and I have worked in the industry for over 10 years.

Equlibirum.

1) As was said above you might want to check the MS licensing restrictions on your ghost image. (BTW you can't even make a replacement OS disk for someone. They have to call MS to get one even if you see they have a legit CD key.)

2) TEC is not precatical and that is why people do not offer it. I first played with TECs seven years ago and found that the extra heat and complexity do not warranty any performance advantage. I built a system for ATI that was TEC cool a few years ago which ran pretty well but was never intended to be sold. (System was 10th fastest in 3dmark at the time and was built in only a few weeks.)

http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/ATIcase/

I biggest issues we found was servicing, condensation (which required a good amount of prep to prevent on a day to day machine) and long term reliability. (TECs are known to burn out under heavy use.) The final nail in the TEC coffin is performance. TEC have a very difficult time keeping up with the heat load of a fully loaded CPU. Many times with TECs you will see sub zero idle temps with load temps well above zero. Also most times the stablized load temps are almost as high a good watercooling. (Stablized meaning that the waterloop has reach the highest temp it will go after opperating for a length of time.)

My most recent project was the Demo systems ATI showed Crossfire at E3 (Was press only) and Computex. (Links to pictures of the machines)

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Nzc4LDU=

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=2269&s=1

http://www.tomshardware.com/business/20050531/computex_day1-05.html

Also we are building the Crossfire system ATI gave away in June.

http://www.ati.com/technology/crossfire/index.html

Here is a final links with some more info on these machines.

http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/LX5/

http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20050824/water_cooling-04.html <--- new article from yesterday.

I guess my point of this is that I can bet that until I posted this very few if anyone here has even heard of me. Breaking into this market is very very hard. Even with some larger support getting your name out will be the hardest thing.

But before you do you will want to do a few things. Fix your site. If it is not complete do not do anything press related. (Just look how many people here were commenting on your unfinished site. I personally made this mistake in 2003 with our watercooled A64 system launch. We did a press release but did not have it on our site. People wanted it but could not find it. By the time we had the SKU up the hype was over.) Make sure you are following all the rules software side. (If you don't know how to sys prep/ OEM a computer you have a long way to go there. I hope you know how to brand your OS installs. Do you not buy MS OEM muiltpacks? They come with a CD and instructions. Also MS wants a OS on a system being sold to be installed this way so you might want to read up on it.) Make sure what you sell can be serviced and provide years of trouble free use. I have been watercooling computers for over 4 years and we did not launch a "retail" product until 2003. It took us that long to ensure that the end user experience was going to hold up. With that being said I would reconsider the use of TEC cooling. Run multiple systems for a year and see what the failure rate is. You will not like what you see. Finally try to find something that stands you apart. Mine was the case I designed. Our LiquidXS system uses a case that I personally designed, is not available anywere else, and makes the LXS the only commonly available acrylic watercooled system.

One more thing on modifing the bios. Unless you have a good working relationship with a board maker I would not change it. If the board is RMA'd with a bios that was modifed that could be grounds for them to deny the RMA. Also it is a pain as mobos/bios revs change so often. Honestly I have never had someone say......"I would buy it if your logo was in the bios"
 
AACDIRECT said:
I guess my point of this is that I can bet that until I posted this very few if anyone here has even heard of me. Breaking into this market is very very hard. Even with some larger support getting your name out will be the hardest thing.

But before you do you will want to do a few things. Fix your site. If it is not complete do not do anything press related. (Just look how many people here were commenting on your unfinished site. I personally made this mistake in 2003 with our watercooled A64 system launch. We did a press release but did not have it on our site. People wanted it but could not find it. By the time we had the SKU up the hype was over.) Make sure you are following all the rules software side. (If you don't know how to sys prep/ OEM a computer you have a long way to go there. I hope you know how to brand your OS installs. Do you not buy MS OEM muiltpacks? They come with a CD and instructions. Also MS wants a OS on a system being sold to be installed this way so you might want to read up on it.) Make sure what you sell can be serviced and provide years of trouble free use. I have been watercooling computers for over 4 years and we did not launch a "retail" product until 2003. It took us that long to ensure that the end user experience was going to hold up. With that being said I would reconsider the use of TEC cooling. Run multiple systems for a year and see what the failure rate is. You will not like what you see. Finally try to find something that stands you apart. Mine was the case I designed. Our LiquidXS system uses a case that I personally designed, is not available anywere else, and makes the LXS the only commonly available acrylic watercooled system.

One more thing on modifing the bios. Unless you have a good working relationship with a board maker I would not change it. If the board is RMA'd with a bios that was modifed that could be grounds for them to deny the RMA. Also it is a pain as mobos/bios revs change so often. Honestly I have never had someone say......"I would buy it if your logo was in the bios"
Click to expand...


It is hard to break out in this industry. You need a TV commercial of Paris Hilton in a bikini giving one of your computers a sponge bath to get noticed.
 
Morley said:
There is a reason why you only get the original media OR a restore disk from an established systems integrator.
Click to expand...
Not true, I bought a voodoo in the past and they gave me both.

As for direct's comments I feel that we can tweak and make the system at a temperature where the system will be at a comfortable level not at a freezing level. We are getting internal power supplies where you can tweak the wattages of the peltier blocks and therfore keeping the cpu and the gpu at a nice 60-70 degrees so freezing will not occur. Also I noticed that you only had one pump and one reservoir in the system. Ours will have a dedicated cooling system for each peltier block so it will keep the liquid cooler. We have tested this and it has been working flawlessly. We also use switech's peltier blocks which are insulated when you get them right out of the box. Of coarse you have to put extra protection around the socket but I believe this will be a safer solution then Danger Den's.
 
Equilibrium said:
Not true, I bought a voodoo in the past and they gave me both.
Click to expand...

In the past you were allow to make replacement CDs too. MS has been known to change there minds from time to time. OEM rules have changed numerous times over the last 5 years alone. An example is that at one time you could only sell an OEM OS with a "bootable" device which they defined as a harddrive, cpu or MB. They they said any other non-MS product. Now it has to be sold with a internal system part. The rules are different for office and different for OEM MS hardware like KBs and mice. Then there is volume licensing....educational....goverment....... :rolleyes:
 
AACDIRECT said:
In the past you were allow to make replacement CDs too. MS has been known to change there minds from time to time. OEM rules have changed numerous times over the last 5 years alone. An example is that at one time you could only sell an OEM OS with a "bootable" device which they defined as a harddrive, cpu or MB. They they said any other non-MS product. Now it has to be sold with a internal system part. The rules are different for office and different for OEM MS hardware like KBs and mice. Then there is volume licensing....educational....goverment....... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I bought it 1 year and a half ago. I am looking but I cant find anything on what the rules are about it. If anyone finds them could you please post them?

As for getting to know the hardware manufacturers we have a meeting with Fatal1ty very soon and I believe they will give us the exposure we need in the business.


If you want to know how our thermoelectric blocks look then here is a picture: http://swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCW5002-64T/MCW5002-64t-inst-630x667.gif
 
Equilibrium said:
I bought it 1 year and a half ago. I am looking but I cant find anything on what the rules are about it. If anyone finds them could you please post them?

As for getting to know the hardware manufacturers we have a meeting with Fatal1ty very soon and I believe they will give us the exposure we need in the business.
Click to expand...

Are you serious?? You have sold systems to someone correct? Did you sell them a legal copy of XP? Was it OEM? Did you look at the CD...or the booklet... As you seem to be a player with Fatal1ty backing you and all. I assume you have bought multipacks of OEM MS software. The EULA is on the side of the box and a BIG OLD STICKER on top says Stop and read the EULA before opening. Once you open the box there is a paper insert with the EULA on it. Also if you were a member of the system builder group it is on that site as well.

BTW which Fatal1ty???.....you mean Abit? Or the body glove guys that own the Fatal1ty brand? Or Fatal1ty the gamer himself? Or maybe Creative which is using the Fatal1ty name now?

On the TEC systems....you the man if you can get it to be better that phase change or as cost effective/ reliable as straight water. Your big competitor is going to be Phase change. Unless you can pull a -50C temp under full load then for the amount of cost a setup you are talking about will out weigh the benfit. Many many people have tried and many have come to this conclusion. A dual loop cooling system without the TEC's, the PSU for them, and insulation/time to install will easily top 500-600 bucks. My guess is that the cooling system will cost close to 1000.00. (If you use legit dedicated PSU for the TECs not just a PC PSU) For that cost you can have phase change. The performance difference between 20C and negative 50C is huge. The diference between 20C and 30C is not. A second thing is that IF you plan on cooling P4 what size pelt are you going to use. Have you considered the electric bill for runnig a system like this. When I ran a TEC system my bill increased almost $25 if it ran 24/7. (Phase change can add that or more) Also what case are you going to put all this stuff into? How much is the system going to weigh? A fully loaded single loop watercooled system can weigh close to 75 LBS. This monster is going to have to weight tons more. Once you get this awsome TEC system done you should use TECs to chill the water in your cooling systems so you don't have to have radiators. I am sure you can get that to work awsome too.

BTW the Danger Den TEC system has the same insulation setup. On the ones we did we also used conformal coatings. (Warranty void) and dielectric grease (messy). After a year there still was issues. (This is also why we have not release a phase change system due to warranty concerns. Most customers at this level want a multi-year warranty.)
 
re: Fatal1ty. Those who know who he is and what he does are a) not going to be buying systems and b) don't care about him being on their hardware.

Trust me, if you're betting on Fatal1ty to give you LEAD-GENERATING exposure, you're going to be sorely disappointed, because I do not believe he has that kind of pull in your target market.
 
Equilibrium said:
Not true, I bought a voodoo in the past and they gave me both.
Click to expand...
Then most likely they had a deal worked out directly with Microsoft. I would engage MS and make sure you aren't breaking EULA by providing both.

Like AACDirect said, they have changed their rules over the years, so be careful.
 
Morley said:
re: Fatal1ty. Those who know who he is and what he does are a) not going to be buying systems and b) don't care about him being on their hardware.

Trust me, if you're betting on Fatal1ty to give you LEAD-GENERATING exposure, you're going to be sorely disappointed.
Click to expand...

I am sure if you call him up he will take a free system! :D
 
AACDIRECT said:
I am sure if you call him up he will take a free system! :D
Click to expand...
You can get anybody to endorse you for the right amount of money/product, but choosing the RIGHT person, now that's a different story.

Perhaps Vin Diesel, who's a big gamer, might be a better goal? ;)
 
AACDIRECT said:
Are you serious?? You have sold systems to someone correct? Did you sell them a legal copy of XP? Was it OEM? Did you look at the CD...or the booklet... As you seem to be a player with Fatal1ty backing you and all. I assume you have bought multipacks of OEM MS software. The EULA is on the side of the box and a BIG OLD STICKER on top says Stop and read the EULA before opening. Once you open the box there is a paper insert with the EULA on it. Also if you were a member of the system builder group it is on that site as well.

BTW which Fatal1ty???.....you mean Abit? Or the body glove guys that own the Fatal1ty brand? Or Fatal1ty the gamer himself? Or maybe Creative which is using the Fatal1ty name now?

On the TEC systems....you the man if you can get it to be better that phase change or as cost effective/ reliable as straight water. Your big competitor is going to be Phase change. Unless you can pull a -50C temp under full load then for the amount of cost a setup you are talking about will out weigh the benfit. Many many people have tried and many have come to this conclusion. A dual loop cooling system without the TEC's, the PSU for them, and insulation/time to install will easily top 500-600 bucks. My guess is that the cooling system will cost close to 1000.00. (If you use legit dedicated PSU for the TECs not just a PC PSU) For that cost you can have phase change. The performance difference between 20C and negative 50C is huge. The diference between 20C and 30C is not. A second thing is that IF you plan on cooling P4 what size pelt are you going to use. Have you considered the electric bill for runnig a system like this. When I ran a TEC system my bill increased almost $25 if it ran 24/7. (Phase change can add that or more) Also what case are you going to put all this stuff into? How much is the system going to weigh? A fully loaded single loop watercooled system can weigh close to 75 LBS. This monster is going to have to weight tons more. Once you get this awsome TEC system done you should use TECs to chill the water in your cooling systems so you don't have to have radiators. I am sure you can get that to work awsome too.

BTW the Danger Den TEC system has the same insulation setup. On the ones we did we also used conformal coatings. (Warranty void) and dielectric grease (messy). After a year there still was issues. (This is also why we have not release a phase change system due to warranty concerns. Most customers at this level want a multi-year warranty.)
Click to expand...

Ok where to start. First off we use the silverstone TJ03 case which is huge and light. Second the system is about 40 pounds-50 pounds. Yes the system costs about 1000 bucks but that is why the system costs more then the others. We do use a dedicated power supply inside including the regular one powering the computer. As far as temps go we have to do a little more testing to get the exact range of what works the best with our overclocking settings. Yes there are warrantee voids but that is why a person pays a premium in the first place. Here is a review on the system cooling: http://www.systemcooling.com/mcw5002-64t-01.html

As far as fatal1ty is concerned we may be partnering with PWX which is owned by fatal1ty. http://www.fatal1ty.com/partners/ If we sign a deal with them then our options will be endless with abit, zalman, and creative.

The systems we sold to people had the regular windows xp cd we bought. We have not implemented a restore disk as of yet.

re: Fatal1ty. Those who know who he is and what he does are a) not going to be buying systems and b) don't care about him being on their hardware.

Trust me, if you're betting on Fatal1ty to give you LEAD-GENERATING exposure, you're going to be sorely disappointed, because I do not believe he has that kind of pull in your target market.
Click to expand...

It is more about getting to know the hardware manufacturers then getting word out about us.
 
Equilibrium said:
Ok where to start. First off we use the silverstone TJ03 case which is huge and light. Second the system is about 40 pounds-50 pounds. Yes the system costs about 1000 bucks but that is why the system costs more then the others. We do use a dedicated power supply inside including the regular one powering the computer. As far as temps go we have to do a little more testing to get the exact range of what works the best with our overclocking settings. Yes there are warrantee voids but that is why a person pays a premium in the first place. Here is a review on the system cooling: http://www.systemcooling.com/mcw5002-64t-01.html

As far as fatal1ty is concerned we may be partnering with PWX which is owned by fatal1ty. http://www.fatal1ty.com/partners/ If we sign a deal with them then our options will be endless with abit, zalman, and creative.

The systems we sold to people had the regular windows xp cd we bought. We have not implemented a restore disk as of yet.

re: Fatal1ty. Those who know who he is and what he does are a) not going to be buying systems and b) don't care about him being on their hardware.



It is more about getting to know the hardware manufacturers then getting word out about us.
Click to expand...
Hardware manufacturers will just refer you to their distributors until you're selling in volume to support their getting involved directly. That has been my experience, and there's an interesting story that AMD's FX brand manager would tell you about my old company being responsible for the FX processor that centers around the fact I didn't have a working relationship with them.

I wouldn't waste your time or money with PWX unless they can bring you sales. You should be revenue focused from day one.
 
This is the PC I built:
It will total to $986 when my 7800GT arrives.

Athlon 64 3200+ + 1GBOCZ RAM + BFG nForce 4 Mobo = $432 from Newegg shipped + Sales Tax
Antec Sonata II case = $128 from Newegg shipped + Sales Tax

Now that totals to $560. The mobo already had 7.1 Channel audio. Just get a 6800GT or Ultra for cheap, and you are set.
 
Morley said:
There is a reason why you only get the original media OR a restore disk from an established systems integrator.
Click to expand...

i have bought 2 alienwares, and i have recieved a windows xp disc and restore disc from both computers.
 
Himmler said:
i have bought 2 alienwares, and i have recieved a windows xp disc and restore disc from both computers.
Click to expand...
Yeah exactly that is what all the others do except maybe dell or hp.
 
Equilibrium said:
Yeah exactly that is what all the others do except maybe dell or hp.
Click to expand...

Negative.

This is the first I've heard of anyone doing something like what AW is doing. Morley can back me up, and he's got even more experience than I do. Seeing a full copy of an OS is so rare in OEM's that you think its a mistake when you see one. Even if you get one, its usually just a restore disk that's been re-labeled.
 
Equilibrium said:
Yeah exactly that is what all the others do except maybe dell or hp.
Click to expand...
And what I'm trying to tell you, as a MS OEM System Builder, is that is NOT the norm, and you do NOT have the inherent right to go about doing that. If in fact Alienware is doing that, then they have an agreement worked out with MS. I doubt that you do.
 
Morley said:
And what I'm trying to tell you, as a MS OEM System Builder, is that is NOT the norm, and you do NOT have the inherent right to go about doing that. If in fact Alienware is doing that, then they have an agreement worked out with MS. I doubt that you do.
Click to expand...

This post has become kind of like beating your head against a wall. We keep saying the same thing. God forbid that we know something about it. I mean I personally have never sold a computer. :rolleyes: Don't listen to the SI that has aready been there...done that. I guess if he sells enough machines and MS decides to audit him he is willing to pay the approx $10K fine per incident. More power to him. I mean why even sell a legal OS with your systems if you are not going to follow MS rules. So Here are the rules as you don't seem to get it.

READ # 14!!!

Here is the OEM EULA as printed on the side of OEM VAR pack box :

1. AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTION AND ACCEPTANCE. Distribution of individual software licenses or hardware units
contained in this Microsoft System Builder Pack (“package”) is not authorized unless you accept this license. You
accept this license when you open this package. By accepting this license, you agree that you are a system builder.
“System builder” means an original equipment manufacturer, or an assembler, reassembler, or installer of software
on computer systems. If you choose not to accept this license, promptly return the unopened package to your distributor.
Individual software licenses or hardware units cannot be returned after this package is opened.
2. PARTIES. This license is granted to you by Microsoft Licensing, GP (“MLGP”), a Nevada corporation, unless
you are located in Europe, Africa, or the Middle East (for a complete list of countries, consult www.microsoft.com
/oem/sblicense), in which case this license is granted by Microsoft Ireland Operations Limited. (“MIOL”), an Irish
company. The terms “we,” “our,” or “Microsoft” are used below to mean either MLGP or MIOL, as appropriate.
3. LIMITED LICENSE. This is a limited license to distribute the individual software licenses or hardware units
contained in this package. “Individual software license” means any individual software license that comes in this
package, including software media, documentation, certifi cates of authenticity, end-user license agreements,
and security devices. “Hardware unit” means any hardware that comes in this package, including any hardwarerelated
software and user documentation.
4. SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTION.
4.1 If the individual software license is a desktop operating system (including Windows XP Media Center Edition),
we grant you a nonexclusive right to distribute individual software licenses; provided that each one is distributed
with either (a) a fully assembled computer system or (b) a nonperipheral computer hardware
component. A “fully assembled computer system” means a computer system consisting of at least a central processing
unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a power supply, and a case. A “nonperipheral computer hardware
component” means a component that will be an integral part of the fully assembled computer system on which
the individual software license will be installed.
4.2 If the individual software license is application or server software, we grant you a nonexclusive right to distribute
individual software licenses; provided that each one is distributed with a fully assembled computer system.
4.3 Each individual software license must be distributed pursuant to the end-user license agreement (“EULA”)
that accompanies the individual software license. Under the terms of the EULA, you are the licensor.
5. HARDWARE DISTRIBUTION. If this package contains hardware units, we grant you a nonexclusive right to
distribute each hardware unit only with either (a) a fully assembled computer system or (b) other non-Microsoft
computer hardware component. If you distribute a hardware unit with a fully assembled computer system, you
must preinstall the associated software drivers and programs supplied in this package, if any, on the fully assembled
computer system’s hard drive. Neither Microsoft, its affi liates, nor its distributors or suppliers makes any
warranty regarding compliance of the hardware units with any federal, state, provincial, or local laws or regulations,
or the laws or regulations of any non-U.S. jurisdiction, relating to computing devices or items sold to the
public. You have the sole responsibility to assemble, test, and certify the hardware units in conjunction with other
equipment that you manufacture, distribute, or sell.
6. DISTRIBUTION OTHER THAN WITH A FULLY ASSEMBLED COMPUTER SYSTEM. We grant you a nonexclusive
right to distribute individual software licenses for desktop operating systems or hardware units to another system
builder if the software and hardware are distributed with a nonperipheral computer hardware component;
provided that the other system builder accepts this license. A copy of this license is posted at
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keep records of any distributions pursuant to this section to show that its requirements were met.
7. PREINSTALLATION REQUIREMENT. If you distribute a desktop operating system with a fully assembled computer
system, you must (a) preinstall it on the computer system’s hard drive and (b) use the OEM Preinstallation
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license includes a COA or combination COA/POL label, the system builder who installs the individual software
license must attach the COA or combination COA/POL label, as applicable, to the outside of the fully assembled
computer system case in an easily accessible location.
9. END-USER SUPPORT. The system builder who installs the individual software license and distributes hardware
units must provide end-user support on terms at least as favorable as the terms under which the system
builder provides end-user support for any fully assembled computer system. The system builder must place its
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to U.S. export jurisdiction. You agree to comply with all applicable international and national laws that apply
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(a) 30 days after the end user launches Microsoft Windows XP or Windows Server 2003 software or (b) 50 times
the end user launches Microsoft Offi ce software; unless either (i) the system builder activates the software in the
manner described in its setup sequence or (ii) the end user activates the software in the manner described during
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to end users before their purchase of the software (for example, in advertisements, packaging, or point of purchase
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"Personally, I am kind of tired of all these companies offering the same product, with basically no competitive advantage. No offense to AquaBox, I know how hard it is to start and run a business, but every computer company out there seems to offer a liquid cooled, cathode-lighted, clear side panel, high priced monster."

What do you think makes a company unique? I don't think any of the boutique builders out there right now really offer anything unique. What do you want to see?

Oh and this isn't a flame, it's just a serious question :) I was trying to think of things that would make a truly unique system builder and couldn't come up with anything. Then again, I'm not that creative.
 
zone_86 said:
Your exactly right. It's to the point where it all looks the same.
Click to expand...
We have some ideas up our sleeves to try and change that. :)
Give us time. ;)

Thanks Direct for that post. I have not given a restore disk to anyone as of yet so for now I will give the OEM disk to people till I can work out something.
 
Yes Believe Him.
Aquabox Pc has got some things up their sleeve that I know all about :D .

And the thing is-
Every computer company is more or less the same. Same parts same etc. But Aquaboxpc
is really trying to stand out. And belive me... they have a very good chance of doing so.
Heck look at the people who paint their cases.... you guys have no idea what they have
painted already for testing!!!

And while their stite may not be totally open or perfect... they want it to be amazing!!!
so it will be done when it is done.


Just dont judge before you know for sure, k
tyler
 
I hope it works out for them. If they have some nice unique ideas, it would be good to see some fresh blood pumped into the industry. You never know if it will work or not unless you try :) Don't let the naysayers get ya down, just heed their points and figure out how to try and work with those issues.

Good luck!
 
yep.

but acutally we all have learned a few good things here and I think this was actually a good talk.
 
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