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Best & fast methods to clean WC loop

L

L.o.D.

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
191
I am in need of cleaning my WC loop & would like to know what are the best & fast ways of doing so?

I know people suggest to let parts soak in a vinegar mix for hours, but since the mix is just sitting there, there must be a faster way of cleaning them?

What about boiling vinegar & swishing it around inside the rad & pump?

For my tubing, there's a thin film inside so going to try & push/pull a small lint free cloth through them.

I really don't want to spend hours & hours waiting for a soak to work.
 
There really is no easy way of doing what your asking:(, it all requires time and patience. As far as cleaning your pump, you need to take it apart and clean it with a alcohol based solvent (you can even use rubbing alcohol in a pinch) and then rinse really well with distilled water. The rad you can use the same solvent, pour some of it in the rad and shake vigorously, do this until what you pour out looks clear then rinse with distilled water thoroughly. With the tube it's far easier to just replace it, but it you are going to clean it then you will need the tool they use to clean the barrel of a rifle you can find them at Walmart. But what ever you do don't soak your rad in vinegar for any long period of time it will destroy your rad. Hope this helps:cool:
 
For the tubing, if I could remember which ones I got, I would just order new tubing from Petra's as they are really cheap there.
I think I am using 1/2in. ID (3/4in. OD) Tygon.
 
what ever you do don't soak your rad in vinegar for any long period of time it will destroy your rad.
Click to expand...

I have not heard that before. Household/cooking Vinegar is a very very weak acid. Few hours or even overnight will not hurt anything although you are absolutely right about the shaking and rinsing bit, the agitation and repeated flushing usually is the best method of removing loose scale, flux and other residue left from manufacturing or junk from some dodgy fluid fill. Letting it sit and soak is a minimal help.

As a final "shine up" a cup of vinegar and a teaspoon of salt in a gallon of water will make anything copper shine like new money just soaking for a few minutes. A good rinse in plain water (final rinse in distilled) will stop the chemical reaction. You must rinse or the copper will turn green. Nice for water blocks that have tarnished over time. Of course if you do not coat them with lacquer or varnish (outside only) they will tarnish again over time. This is mostly a cosmetic cleaning with little or no benefit other than looks.

New rads might benefit from a rinse with baking soda and water solution as flux used in the soldering/manufactuirng process is acidic and it would not hurt to nutralize any flux residue that does not flush out. Again rinse well.



Menace is exactly right about the no easy way. I am just skeptical about the vinegar bit as for a long time that has been recommended (ketchup as well - mostly vinegar ). Apparently the salt in ketchup helps shine copper up and it has passed into lore. And if you let it soak for weeks maybe it could eat through a thin walled rad tube but I have not seen a report of vinegar damaging a rad in this forum yet. But since it is mainly for a quick shine up there is really no point in a vinegar soak so /shrug.

Be advised the film you see on the inside of the tubing may or may not come out. Most tubing "absorbs" water, it is somewhat porous. Any dye or coloring in the fluid will be absorbed by the tubing and actually be "in" the tubing and not just coating the inside. Just depends on the tubing and the fluid. Just a heads up. It could clean up fine, clean up 1/2 way or not at all.

Got an old piece of garden hose ? Old school way was to take it all outside and clamp the garden hose to a rad barb and open the faucet full blast. Flush and rinse anyway, still need to disassemble block and pump afterwards and check for stubborn gunk. Toothbrush and elbow grease.
 
BillParrish said:
I have not heard that before. Household/cooking Vinegar is a very very weak acid. Few hours or even overnight will not hurt anything although you are absolutely right about the shaking and rinsing bit, the agitation and repeated flushing usually is the best method of removing loose scale, flux and other residue left from manufacturing or junk from some dodgy fluid fill. Letting it sit and soak is a minimal help.

As a final "shine up" a cup of vinegar and a teaspoon of salt in a gallon of water will make anything copper shine like new money just soaking for a few minutes. A good rinse in plain water (final rinse in distilled) will stop the chemical reaction. You must rinse or the copper will turn green. Nice for water blocks that have tarnished over time. Of course if you do not coat them with lacquer or varnish (outside only) they will tarnish again over time. This is mostly a cosmetic cleaning with little or no benefit other than looks.

New rads might benefit from a rinse with baking soda and water solution as flux used in the soldering/manufactuirng process is acidic and it would not hurt to nutralize any flux residue that does not flush out. Again rinse well.



Menace is exactly right about the no easy way. I am just skeptical about the vinegar bit as for a long time that has been recommended (ketchup as well - mostly vinegar ). Apparently the salt in ketchup helps shine copper up and it has passed into lore. And if you let it soak for weeks maybe it could eat through a thin walled rad tube but I have not seen a report of vinegar damaging a rad in this forum yet. But since it is mainly for a quick shine up there is really no point in a vinegar soak so /shrug.

Be advised the film you see on the inside of the tubing may or may not come out. Most tubing "absorbs" water, it is somewhat porous. Any dye or coloring in the fluid will be absorbed by the tubing and actually be "in" the tubing and not just coating the inside. Just depends on the tubing and the fluid. Just a heads up. It could clean up fine, clean up 1/2 way or not at all.

Got an old piece of garden hose ? Old school way was to take it all outside and clamp the garden hose to a rad barb and open the faucet full blast. Flush and rinse anyway, still need to disassemble block and pump afterwards and check for stubborn gunk. Toothbrush and elbow grease.
Click to expand...

Her's a little info I found about the vinegar thing http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=133518&highlight=flush+radiator I just think better safe then sorry;)
 
Another thing, the coolant is normally blue but it's clear as day now.
Last time I took it apart, I stuck my finger inside the tubes at the end & could feel the film.

Never took the pump apart before.
 
menace2society said:
you need to take it apart and clean it with a alcohol based solvent (you can even use rubbing alcohol in a pinch)
Click to expand...

an organic chem book would come in handy here. alcohol IS a solvent itself. isopropyl and other alcohols however do not dissolve copper tarnishes.

copper reacts with O2 in the air, accelerated by the presence of moisture along with ammonium ions, HCl acid, sulphur and other -sulfide containing compounds which are common, to several different compounds including the green copper carbonate that we all know, as well as copper oxides and chlorides.

acetic acid (the acid part of vinegar) and copper can be reacted to form copper II acetate, which is a salt of copper. though a 4% household vinegar solution is not strong enough to react with copper in any observable amount.


Her's a little info I found about the vinegar thing http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...flush+radiator I just think better safe then sorry
Click to expand...
the guy running the experiment threw some metals of unknown purity into random solutions. no measuring, no quantifiable data of any sort. he should have been able to figure out that paint thinner (probably mineral spirits, "paint thinner" can refer to a dozen chemicals) is a petroleum derivative and its completely nonreactive to copper so there isnt even any sense of testing that. household ammonia, or water with an elevated sulfur content, would have been a better experiment.

at any rate, that is not something to base any kind of decisions off of. salt water or salted kitchen vinegar will not eat thru your radiator unless you leave it in there for several days/weeks/months in elevated temperatures, or use a more concentrated version of acetic acid.

if you really want to know what the best solvent is for getting rid of scale buildup in your computer system, you need to figure out what the buildup is made out of first. probably minerals like calcium deposited from the water, sulfides absorbed by the water from the air, etc. now that would be an interesting experiment..... figuring out the actual composition of the crap.
 
I clean my system using dilute chlorine bleach.
The major gunk in water cooling is algae that forms over time due to contamination, and warm conditions.

I remove the parts, mix bleach in distilled water and run it through the pump, radiator,blocks and reservoir using clean tubing to pour the mixture through.....after several passes I rinse like crazy with distilled water.

I just replace tubing.....you will never get the gunk(algae) out of the tubing and if you reuse the tubing it just starts the entire process again.

I don't use additive in my system, I just use distilled water and silver coils. I might have to clean the system once a year, if that. Silver does an excellent job as an algaecide.
 
What do you guys think about flushing (not soaking in) with CLR?
It's supposed to be safe on copper on rubber.
 
I would not use anything that was a gimmish of agents that no one has ever tried.

I would be concerned about any residue left behind.

Just my 2 cents.
 
That's why I would flush it with distilled after. Get rid of left over CLR.
 
ghost6303 said:
an organic chem book would come in handy here. alcohol IS a solvent itself. isopropyl and other alcohols however do not dissolve copper tarnishes.

copper reacts with O2 in the air, accelerated by the presence of moisture along with ammonium ions, HCl acid, sulphur and other -sulfide containing compounds which are common, to several different compounds including the green copper carbonate that we all know, as well as copper oxides and chlorides.

acetic acid (the acid part of vinegar) and copper can be reacted to form copper II acetate, which is a salt of copper. though a 4% household vinegar solution is not strong enough to react with copper in any observable amount.



the guy running the experiment threw some metals of unknown purity into random solutions. no measuring, no quantifiable data of any sort. he should have been able to figure out that paint thinner (probably mineral spirits, "paint thinner" can refer to a dozen chemicals) is a petroleum derivative and its completely nonreactive to copper so there isnt even any sense of testing that. household ammonia, or water with an elevated sulfur content, would have been a better experiment.

at any rate, that is not something to base any kind of decisions off of. salt water or salted kitchen vinegar will not eat thru your radiator unless you leave it in there for several days/weeks/months in elevated temperatures, or use a more concentrated version of acetic acid.

if you really want to know what the best solvent is for getting rid of scale buildup in your computer system, you need to figure out what the buildup is made out of first. probably minerals like calcium deposited from the water, sulfides absorbed by the water from the air, etc. now that would be an interesting experiment..... figuring out the actual composition of the crap.
Click to expand...


You can do what you want to your system, you can clean it with napalm if you want. I'm speaking from over 10 years of cooling pc's with water and I'm still learning. I just gave a simple example of what you should not do and why, was not trying to win a Nobel peace prize or boar everyone to death with science speak, but you go right ahead and show your intellectual prowess and I'll try to act interested :rolleyes:
 
what you said was inaccurate, if you want to believe it- then to each his own, but dont tell people it is fact when it is merely a misguided personal belief not based on any type of science. if what i said bored you or you didnt understand it, then your loss. i could care less if you in particular are interested in the subject we were discussing. it is in everyones interest to learn something they do not already know, but if you feel differently, you are entitled to your opinion and feel free to ignore what i say.

if you really think those few paragraphs i typed were nobel-prize-winning advanced-type-chemistry stuff- then i feel sorry for you that you dont know any better. that is only a chem 101-ish level subject and i can do it in my sleep.


in other news- heres a neat chemical interaction calculator
http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/ChemComp.asp

try selecting "all" under the "material" box, and "sodium hypochlorite <20%" in the second box and it will show you all the reactions household bleach has on different materials. especially of interest would be acetal (delrin) which a lot of water blocks are made from, aluminum, rubber, neoprene, and nylon which are all used regularly in computers. copper is listed as n/a because bleach doesnt degrade/eat copper, but it does react with it to form copper hypochlorite and sodium hydroxide (lye).
 
Can we get back to my questions instead of bickering back & forth please?
 
Careful with bleach, it will almost instantly turn bare copper black. No clue about exactly what the reaction is and if the film (if that is even the correct term) hurts thermal transfer but many moons ago I put 1 tablespoon of clorox in my loop to "kill bugs" and the next day the inside of my maze3 was black as night. Temps did not suffer much and I never cleaned it out but it sure looked horrible. A lot of stuff today is nickel plated and thus unaffected, at least on the outside but the inside bottom plates of most waterblocks is still bare copper.

Take it all apart and scrub, rinse with a quick dunk in rubbing alcohol then a good rinse/several dunkings in a new clean bucket of distilled water and reassemble ASAP. There is no magic method.

A search on this sub-forum on "ketchup" will get you almost all the past posts on "how do I clean my ....".
 
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ghost6303 said:
what you said was inaccurate, if you want to believe it- then to each his own, but dont tell people it is fact when it is merely a misguided personal belief not based on any type of science. if what i said bored you or you didnt understand it, then your loss. i could care less if you in particular are interested in the subject we were discussing. it is in everyones interest to learn something they do not already know, but if you feel differently, you are entitled to your opinion and feel free to ignore what i say.

if you really think those few paragraphs i typed were nobel-prize-winning advanced-type-chemistry stuff- then i feel sorry for you that you dont know any better. that is only a chem 101-ish level subject and i can do it in my sleep.


in other news- heres a neat chemical interaction calculator
http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/ChemComp.asp

try selecting "all" under the "material" box, and "sodium hypochlorite <20%" in the second box and it will show you all the reactions household bleach has on different materials. especially of interest would be acetal (delrin) which a lot of water blocks are made from, aluminum, rubber, neoprene, and nylon which are all used regularly in computers. copper is listed as n/a because bleach doesnt degrade/eat copper, but it does react with it to form copper hypochlorite and sodium hydroxide (lye).
Click to expand...


Can we agree that it is not a good idea to let vinegar sit in your rad for a long period of time. Because that's the only point I'm saying is a fact and for you to say other wise speaks to your level of experience at actual wc-ing. :confused: There are many levels of science two of which are theoretical and practical.... up to you which one carries the most weight. To the opener of the thread Bleach is a no no. I have no experience with CLR so I can't answer that. Maybe ghost can give it a go?;)
 
Bill, I called it a film due to it being really thin like & see through.

Looking at the bottle of CLR, it has a list of "do not use on" & copper is one of them.
So I guess I would just use it on the Tygon instead and the rad & res.
 
There ya go, (kudos, surprising how many would not read the label).

Off hand regular dish-washing liquid and hot water would be my choice. It is designed to rinse away easily (or we all would have the runs) and cannot be very harsh as people have their hands in it all the time. The gun barrel cleaner with the cotton barrel swab is a good idea or just replace the tubing. I would look at my block, take apart if absolutely necessary, (hopefully you can shine a light in one port and see in the other if crap has stuck to the fins in the center of the bottom. ) if you find gunk in there then worry about the pump. If no gunk in block I would not take apart pump but just give it a good flush.

edit: got curious about you pump as not many people still go "old school" and use aquarium pumps, apparently it has a foam/sponge filter somewhere in the housing, so that would be a good indicator if a teardown was needed. Filter full of crap, I would investigate deeper, little crap I would not be too worried about rest of pump. But do find/take a look at the filter if your pump does actually have it, Web site wanted me to sign up to get Instructions/Info on pump and I am too lazy.
 
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I'm using a Swiftech pump. Is there one in them?
I had planned on taking the block apart to check it.
 
oops sorry must have read the wrong sig. No filter in the swiftech that I know of . I am pretty certain it is a Lang (actual manuf) pump and diagrams etc. can be found on the lang site to help take it apart. (pretty easy, I think the front impeller part just screws off and you just need to be careful with an O ring to assemble, but I might be wrong).

This might help.
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1035404270&postcount=2
 
Ok, CLR seems to work pretty good for the tubing. I just did a swish/flush on the tubes alone which did help. If I had a couple corks, I would have sealed some CLR inside the tubes for like an hour or so.
Right now, I just need to get the foam out of the system.

Also, since Petra's out of UV Reactive Pentosin G11 Coolant Additive, anyone know where else I could get some in Canada?
I did send an email to Petra's to see if they're going to get more.
 
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