best database software: please move if need be.

[orangezero]

not sure where this should go.

I'm looking for the "best" database software program, and then eventually turn it into practice management software for myself. Something that can have a patient schedule, inventory of merchandise, exam forms, scanning in of forms, transfering of info from medical equipment into the program, etc.

I'm just getting into this and am really not impressed with the poorly done stuff currently available. I'd like mine to be easily customizable and hassle free at the same time. also, the ability to transfer "files" from one program to another as technology and OSs change would be a benefit.

The one program I've seen run is based off of filemaker pro 6, and i did a quick search and noticed the do have filemaker pro 7 now.

thanks for any help you guys can give, or directions on how to proceed.

 

[Met-AL]

Take a look at Microsoft Access. It's very powerful but also has a steap learning curve.

 

[Asgorath]

Take a look at Microsoft Access. It's very powerful but also has a steap learning curve.

Steep learning curve? Are you kidding me? Access is about as easy a database as there is.

 

[orangezero]

ok, i've had a few minutes to look around at things.

Seems to be quite the controversy, many like access and many like filemaker pro. is there anything else? perhaps something that is open source?

I should point out that I know very little about programming, but am "decent" with working on computers. I seem to pick up on things rather quickly. Access seems a little bit more complicated, but perhaps its getting better. another question, any idea how long it would take for someone who knows what he is doing to setup patient scheduling, invoicing, etc. I wouldnt' mind paying someone to do it, but I'm not sure how to go about it exactly.


I just don't like the fact that they want to charge $20,000 for a piece of software written on filemaker pro 6, when they have two newer versions available. doesn't sound like they update too often.

thanks for the input.

 

[Kaos]

If you arent afraid of open-source go ahead and find a spare linux/windows box. Google setting up apache, set that up first. Then google setting up MySQL. Then google setting up php 4 (or 5 really) with apache and then finally google setting up phpMyAdmin and get them all working together.

Free as in beer.

all you need is the box/OS to run it on and the time to learn how to make it do what you want it to.

other alternative would be MSSQL Server.

 

[Asgorath]

Read about L.A.M.P. - Linux . Apache . MySQL . Perl/PHP/Python/Primate

However, being that you have little to any programming experience, I doubt you'll turn out anything really useful anytime soon, even at an accelerated learning rate (which is bad for a beg. programmer anyway). Source it out.

 

[Lethal]

not sure where this should go.

Well, you are asking for db software, don't know why you'd think it belonged in Networking.

 

[Orinthical]

I'm looking for the "best" database software program, and then eventually turn it into practice management software for myself. Something that can have a patient schedule, inventory of merchandise, exam forms, scanning in of forms, transfering of info from medical equipment into the program, etc.

The 'best' database software is really up for debate... but for what you're doing it sounds like you'd get more right away from Filemaker Pro than from the others. Since you're looking to design some sort of medical data entry system you'll be able to get up and running more quickly with the WYSIWYG way of designing forms that Filemaker offers.

MySQL, MSSQL and Oracle are all excellent database systems but all of them are perhaps a bit over powered for what you're looking for. Will they be better in the end? Yes... but they will take much longer to develop and thus present a higher up-front cost. The ROI will likely be higher though if you look at it from a business perspective and you'll have the opportunity to develop a more secure and robust system in the end. Out of those you can start with MySQL using a LAMP implementation on a Linux system. Hire a good PHP guy if you have the time... go with Filemaker if you don't.

 

[Asgorath]

Read about L.A.M.P. - Linux . Apache . MySQL . Perl/PHP/Python/Primate

However, being that you have little to any programming experience, I doubt you'll turn out anything really useful anytime soon, even at an accelerated learning rate (which is bad for a beg. programmer anyway). Source it out.

 

[Met-AL]

Steep learning curve? Are you kidding me? Access is about as easy a database as there is.

I have used far easier to learn ones, but they were not near as powerful as Access.

 

[pigster]

I should point out that I know very little about programming, but am "decent" with working on computers. I seem to pick up on things rather quickly. Access seems a little bit more complicated, but perhaps its getting better. another question, any idea how long it would take for someone who knows what he is doing to setup patient scheduling, invoicing, etc.

It's a significant project for a developer; for someone who's a beginning programmer it's a HUGE project.

And that's just the software side, what about liability/legal issues like HIPAA ?

 

[mikeblas]

There's no such thing as a "best" database package.

You can find a very good fit for your app; that's the best you can do.

You haven't told us much about your application. What's the data volume? How many users will your database serve at one time? How many queries per second, per minute? What response time will your users expect?

How will users do backup? What is the security model?

You're not clear about your intentions. Are you writing a one-off package for yourself? For the company where you work? Or a commercial package that you'll resell? Depending on your answer, your needs for supportability will vary.

These questions are very important because they will guide your decision. I'm surprised anyone would provide a recommendation without hearing more details.

I'd never use a package like FileMaker or Access in a multi-user situation. Access can be secured, but it's not easy and there's not much written about it.

If you really want to be fully customizable, that means your data model will be very complicated. Your queries will be similarly complicated, and it might be hard to get aggressive queries optimized with a "smaller" package.

Are you really read to compromise the needs of your customers against how easy a package is to learn?

 

[orangezero]

thanks for all the replies. I would agree with most that the lamp/linux implementation is way over my head.

I am thinking of setting this up for my future office, which is an eyecare facility. we will keep track of inventories (contact lenses, glassses lenses, frames, etc.), medical insurance, patient information and scheduling, and hopefully exam forms with scanning input ability. I'd love to be able to integrate as much as possible with other equipment in the office. Medicare and many insurances are starting to only allow electronic submissions and most hospitals are going through the expensive process of electric charting, and i'd like to stay ahead of the curve as much as possible.

As far as usage, there won't be that many users accessing the data at one time. perhaps only one or two simultaneously at first, then i could ever imagine it being more than 5-10 at most. i thought filemaker pro would allow 5, and more for the server version, seemed ok to me. there could be the doc using it for exams, a worker using it to look up a patients appointment date, and perhaps someone looking up a prescription all at the same time. seems rather light for what most are describing and what most programs are designed to handle. am i correct in thinking this?

Here is another silly question, i know filemaker pro "makes" the database, but what program does the user actually log into to see a patient file? would it still be filemaker?

Like I said I'm very new at this, I just don't seem to be very satisfied with whats out there, I doubt it woudl ever turn into something I would try to "sell." at the same time, perhaps this is a little silly, and maybe I should be getting some of the more commercial office suites. It just seems like I'm buying into a seldom update, technologically outdated, moderately overpriced result.

I'd rather have the option to go in myself and add some more fields to an exam form or add in a new field in the address section of a patient file, rather than wait for a tech guy in india or across the country to come up with an update. I'm sort of DIY I guess, and I'm looking to see if this is feasible.

Perhaps this should turn into a discussion of the limits of Filemaker. For example, would it allow me to have the two separate office buildings and sync the two up?



And as for HIPAA, one of my best friends run the security of a major insurance agency, and he knows a lot more about security laws than a lot of the lawyers he has to deal with. Don't think that will be a problem with his help in all this, he's just not good at programming either.

thanks guys, and any girls that wrote too.

 

[mikeblas]

Like I said I'm very new at this, I just don't seem to be very satisfied with whats out there,

What are you finding dissatisfying?

 

[Vette5885]

Access is VERY simple (I really don't think that it counts as a true database as it doesn't fully support SQL). This is great for creating small, simple databases with only one user. Its actually pretty good for learning how relational databases function and what most of the database design terminology is. I would HIGHLY reccomend picking up a book on how to create databases - most of the really basic books that I've seen use access. But I would reccomend against using it for your situation (besides the fact that you have to buy it from MS). Access works best with only 1 user, especially if you use the built-in user interface to access your database.

Once you get over the learning curve, then you can pick up a real database for free (MySQL, Oracle, MS-SQL Express Edition, etc.). The only problem is that you will have to come up with your own interface, wether it be web or app based. Access has a complete GUI tool to create your interfaces - the real databases don't.

Personally I find it very easy to code in VB, so I build my databases with MS-SQL Express, then I use Visual Studio .NET 2005 to build an interface. The 2005 version has made creating database applications and web sites very easy to work with, as you just select your database, import the configuration (automatic on most databases), then click and drag into your program/site, then write a few lines of code.

Relational databases aren't that hard to learn, and once you get a good understanding on how to build and maintain a complete database system, then there is no limit to what you can do with your data.

 

[mikeblas]

Access is VERY simple (I really don't think that it counts as a true database as it doesn't fully support SQL). [...]
Once you get over the learning curve, then you can pick up a real database for free (MySQL, Oracle, MS-SQL Express Edition, etc.).

Does MySQL fully support SQL?

 

[Asgorath]

Does MySQL fully support SQL?

Close enough.

 

[Orinthical]

If you intend to use this to store medical records and patient billing information, you should really consider purchasing a pre-made solution from an industry-trusted company which will meet your insurance requirements and keep the security of your patients in mind.

No offense intended - but I would not visit a place that potentially stored my insurance, personal information (social security number, etc) and/or my credit information in an ACCESS database.

At least with a program like Filemaker it would require the thief to have a program which can open the file and break the level of security that you placed on it. Nothing is ever secure - it's just a matter of how difficult it is to open. ACCESS can not only be opened by nearly everyone with office but also with freeware/open source solutions like OpenOffice. There are also tons of file decrypting/password stripping programs out there for it.

As I said earlier, the ROI on a custom application (built by an outside agency) will most likely outweigh the initial cost. Just remember to ensure the company you may choose to go with has a good privacy record and meets the requirements of your malpractice insurance, if there are any.

 

[mikeblas]

There are also tons of file decrypting/password stripping programs out there for it.

As there are for Filemaker.

 

[Orinthical]

As there are for Filemaker.

QFT.

Nevertheless programs that read Access files are more readily available than those that read Filemaker files.

 

[mikeblas]

Nevertheless programs that read Access files are more readily available than those that read Filemaker files.

How so? Does the Filemaker Pro search on Yahoo! take longer, or something?

And given that both are available, would you trust an optometrist who stored your data in Filemaker Pro?

 

[Nasty_Savage]

I've use Filemaker Pro in the past and I found it to be useful and realtively painless experience. Some learning required, but its worth it. However, I do agree if these are sensitive files, that a prebuilt package is the way to go.

 

[orangezero]

I can see the point about security, which is sort of why i asked here in the first place.

I'm not so sure how much better off i would be security-wise, to go with a professional program. The one i'm looking at that other optometrists have recommended uses filemaker pro 6 to run the database. wouldn't all those cracks allow easy access.

I'm just guessing here, but as long as I have my incoming and outcoming info secure, wouldn't it be ok? wow, thats a extremely vague comment I'm sure to get quoted a lot. It just seems that making a system secure would require a lot more than just what database software you use. If its setup so that you can only log in locally to get access, meaning in my office, I don't see a difference from having paper files. You would physically be able to walk in my office and take a chart when i'm in the other room just as easy, maybe harder to get 500 charts, but you could still get them.

I thought the actual HIPAA regulations were actually rather tame, something like needing to have some type of security. Could be very wrong, i haven't looked it up. I've just heard a lot use HIPAA compliance as a selling point and really aren't any more secure than other programs in the end.

The big advantage to me of writing my own would be the ability to change exam form structure, and to have the ability to understand what went wrong when things are bad.

And as far as backup, I'm sure than tape backup is probably the best way to go, along with perhaps getting a dvd burner, and burning a date stamped copy of the charts and very night at a certain time. and then having a cheap 300gb hard drive that is updated every few days and stored in a safe in the office, or in a safe at home.

also, to eliminate downtime and problems, i think it would probably be smart to run something like vmware or similar. not sure if thats needed or not though.

The longer I work in this industry, the more I realize how scared we should all be going into a practice, security wise. The only good thing is that the vast majority of people are "good" and don't want to steal other people's info. however, a lot of practices are still in the 80s and the reason we don't have electronic charting now in my current location is the lack of docs that could sit down and figure out how to work it in 5min.

 

[Schro]

I can see the point about security, which is sort of why i asked here in the first place.

I'm not so sure how much better off i would be security-wise, to go with a professional program. The one i'm looking at that other optometrists have recommended uses filemaker pro 6 to run the database. wouldn't all those cracks allow easy access.

Just because a program is written in FileMaker 6 and 7 is now available doesn't mean its a bad program or outdated. Filemaker is a foundation application, much like MySQL, SQL Server, Oracle, etc etc etc, that doesn't necessitate you to move to the next version to make something better. Some Fortune 100 clients of mine still use mainframe OS/Databases from the early 70's (NOMAD anyone?) and have no problems with functionality or security.

Overall, you're likely going to be better off with a packaged product that is customizable to an extent and is HIPPA compliant. Even though it would be better in the end to have your own custom developped application, the headache involved with it will likely outweigh any potential gain, as the nasty monster named scope-creep will likely visit your funds more than once.

 

[Orinthical]

Either way you go you just need to realize nothing is truly 'secure' - it is merely a matter of how much trouble it is to the 'hacker'. Most so-called 'hackers' these days are really nothing more than script kiddies who are satisified with controlling hundreds or thousands of unsuspecting comcast bots. A standard NAT router is usually enough to keep them at bay. The number of true active hackers out there is dwindling. You have more to fear from china port-scanning your system than you do from the average script-kiddie today.

But regardless of that don't let your guard down... though don't over-secure yourself either. Find a balance and stick with it; ask if the other offices you associate with follow any 'best practice' document or formal guidance regarding the safe-keeping of medical records.