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Belgium Hates Loot Boxes

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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I think this whole loot box issue is just getting spun up. Outside of gamer outrage about loot boxes, now the Minister of Justice in Belgium is saying that loot boxes are nothing more than gambling and he does not want Belgium's children exposed to it. Take your translator. Thanks cageymaru!

Minister of Justice wants to prohibit purchases in video games, if you do not know what you exactly mean with that purchase. "Mixing gambling and gaming, especially at a young age, is dangerous for the mental health of the child."

Are loot boxes gambling? There are some good arguments for and against.

Check out the video.

And I just missed out on the last Bag-O-Crap.
 
Yes, they are gambling. It doesn't matter if you can or cannot trade items, or if they're BFGs or just hats. If you're spending money on chance, it's gambling.

Whether or not we should or should not allow it like Belgium is another story. Personally, if grinding is introduced to promote a mechanic, that's a bad thing™. Games like Diablo 3 became much better and far more playable once they removed the real money auction house, and games like Call of Duty became much less playable when loot boxes were introduced. (Even the latest Call of Duty, it now takes far longer to level up than previous games.)
 
It's gambling when the items are randomized...that's earning money to play a game of chance in the hopes of winning something that you can't obtain otherwise. Damn, maybe EA should also charge interest! You know, if you don't buy the loot crate today for 10 ass-gems, next week it might be 13 ass-gems....and the special targeting-enhancing Leia Bun Hairdo will only be available for a limited time.......so EA will loan you some gems, ya know, like as a friend.....

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HeadRusch said:
It's gambling when the items are randomized...that's earning money to play a game of chance in the hopes of winning something that you can't obtain otherwise. Damn, maybe EA should also charge interest! You know, if you don't buy the loot crate today for 10 ass-gems, next week it might be 13 ass-gems....and the special targeting-enhancing Leia Bun Hairdo will only be available for a limited time.......so EA will loan you some gems, ya know, like as a friend.....

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What's the vig on this action?
 
Nytegard said:
If you're spending money on chance, it's gambling.
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This is the reason contests and sweepstakes always have in fine print, "no purchase necessary." There may of course be other objections somewhere which is why they also have "void where prohibited." Nevertheless, not all giveaways are equal, there is like most things a fine point to the law. It's critical that a payment does not increase your chances of winning!

An example I saw earlier was The Lost Sphear from Square Enix. They have a pre-order sweepstakes which I checked out to see if I could enter without a purchase (the pre-order) but I wandered around their site and didn't find a way. I contacted them and then all of a sudden they added a PDF with rules that at the very bottom states, "NO PURCHASE OR PAYMENT OF ANY KIND IS NECESSARY TO ENTER OR WIN THIS PROMOTION. A
PURCHASE OR PAYMENT OF ANY KIND WILL NOT INCREASE YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING." (the contest was up since May but they only posted the rules on Nov. 2, they were clearly trying to funnel people into pre-ordering only) Just FYI they have to provide a way to get in without purchase if you request it.

Now add onto this kind of scheme not only randomness but digital goods. Technically, buying a lootbox doesn't increase your relative chances of winning, of course (in absolute terms it does - more lootboxes is more chances - but you can earn them by playing and the chance is equal per box), but the murkier bit may be the fact it's for goods that have no value outside a controlled ecosystem. It's like literally their own form of fiat currency...so why not fiat gambling? The legal argument here is that it's not a promotion and thus not bound but I'd argue the virtual nature of it must no longer be a shield and thus legislation is required.
 
Well seeing he needs to push it trought he european commision it wont be for tomorrow that's for sure. He basically wants to ban the purchase of ingame items if you do not know what these items are or contain.

It also states that mixing money and addiction is gambling which is a weird train of thought. Then again he is not known for his intelligence.
 
I think I red an article were they reached a conclusion that loot boxe were not considered gambling. It was probably in the US.
 
HeadRusch said:
It's gambling when the items are randomized...that's earning money to play a game of chance in the hopes of winning something that you can't obtain otherwise. Damn, maybe EA should also charge interest! You know, if you don't buy the loot crate today for 10 ass-gems, next week it might be 13 ass-gems....and the special targeting-enhancing Leia Bun Hairdo will only be available for a limited time.......so EA will loan you some gems, ya know, like as a friend.....

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Not to mention a forthcoming cryptomining opportunity! For every bitcoined earned your rig works off $0.0001 of the debt. Not only will you walk funny, your rig will make uneven sounds throughout the night.
 
lostin3d said:
Oh wow, BUDK how you've fallen. I remember looking through the catalogs ten years ago at all the pretty knives and swords. LOL the reviews on this are worthy of a 2hr infomercial.
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Nothing better than sitting down with your teenage son and going through the BUDK catalog. Good times. Yeah, I now have a punisher flip knife...for $10.
 
bigdogchris said:
The State of Hawaii is also looking into game developer practices that lead to addictive gambling behaviors like loot boxes.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2017/11/21/hawaii-looking-at-legislation-to-ban-loot-boxes/

What's going to end up happening is EA just won't sell the game in Hawaii.
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What's more likely going to happen is that legislation will be passed to ban loot boxes from games, but certain companies will be given exemptions. And you can also purchase your exemption status from the government.
 
lostin3d said:
Dude! That was awesome! Even though the 2nd movie is still hard to watch seeing that sword again with the original first theme is too cool. Don Felder Rocks! We had a little too much fun with that sword(amazing that everything is still attached) back in the day. Thanks!

Totally taking the train off the tracks but how many will know what 'reggae country' relates to and how awesome Don is.
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I still watch the original from time to time. I remember buying the soundtrack at the Record Bar.
 
Good. Makes those companies think twice before they include loot boxes in games.
 
Its either bots grinding for human plebs or random goody boxes costing money.

Honestly games where bots are not found often and stuff has to be found from drops lure me in.

Not 50 luck 99 guys running around with instant-jib guns
 
Nytegard said:
Yes, they are gambling. It doesn't matter if you can or cannot trade items, or if they're BFGs or just hats. If you're spending money on chance, it's gambling
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Tell me what game of chance exists where I am 100% to win something every single time? What about when I put a quarter in the trinket machine at the grocery store, is that gambling? What about when I buy airheads mystery flavor, is that gambling?

I'm also curious how children have access to funds to spend on lootboxes in the first place.
 
I expect that EA's withdrawing the loot-box system in Battlefront 2 2017 was directly to avoid having the game be barred from being advertised or sold to minors on account of it featuring gambling - as EA's announcement came after Belgium's announcement of investigating EA, I believe.

If people want to see the end of heavily micro-transactioned and piecemeal games, with social media-style gameplay, then I think they should hope that all these systems do indeed become branded as gambling, as then companies will not be able to base their game's design around those systems and still be able to sell them to minors - which probably would result in companies stopping making that style of game design a focus.

And EA's loot-box system in BF2 2017, NFS Payback, and probably other of their games, definitely constitutes gambling, as people are putting up real money in the mere hope that chance will play in their favour - incentivizing players to spend more and more money to get something they like.
 
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I was thinking, if lootboxes are supposedly gambling and/or illegal as you don't know what's inside what about collectible cardgames like MTG or even panini footbal stickers, they gonna outlaw those too?
 
My vote would be to consider it gambling, pending how it is done, but it is arguable. What isn't arguable, is they are "addictive" and that could open up some worms.
 
As mentioned above, if in-game loot boxes are gambling, then so are collectable card packages (like baseball cards, Pokemon, or Magic the Gathering) & the gatcha machines with small toys found in grocery stores. Rather than regulate loot boxes as gambling, I think a better legal avenue to pursue would be better methods of keeping children from buying stuff online without their parent's explicit permission. If adults want to shell out money for a silly hat in the game they play, or buy special characters for their children, that should be their own business. I would be in favor of strict rules posting the odds for getting certain items in a loot box, that a person would have to see before they buy the loot box.
 
Denpepe said:
I was thinking, if lootboxes are supposedly gambling and/or illegal as you don't know what's inside what about collectible cardgames like MTG or even panini footbal stickers, they gonna outlaw those too?
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The CCG racket is basically the same as the scratch off Lottery cards. Spend real money on a blind pack, open to reveal the prize. Most of the time you get crap with bits of less smelly crap. Once in a while you get a good/valuable card worth more then what you paid. Guessing the Lottery has a better return to players then the average CCG.
 
I don't really care that much about the gambling argument one way or another.

Loot boxes are fine IMHO, as long as:
1.) You don't have to pay to open them; and
2.) The contents are not tradeable

It used to be a matter of pride if you earned enough cool items in game. Now some spoiled impatient kid with daddy's credit card can come along and take shortcuts and just buy everything.

It kind of ruins the whole experience.

That being said, if getting them denounced as gambling gets them banned from games, I'm all for it :p
 
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Web4Life said:
I think I red an article were they reached a conclusion that loot boxe were not considered gambling. It was probably in the US.
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Yeah, an organization run by the game industry. It was a shocker.

dreadcthulhu said:
As mentioned above, if in-game loot boxes are gambling, then so are collectable card packages (like baseball cards, Pokemon, or Magic the Gathering)
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No. With card packages you're buying a guaranteed number of items of a known rarity AND have an option to do with them as you wish, trade them, sell them...You own them, you can do with them as you please, you'll always get X*A, Y*B and Z*C.
 
Everyone spent money on a bed. We still have a random chance of staying in or falling out of them. Should we ban beds?! /sarc :ROFLMAO:
 
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