Because AMD Fodder is fun: 490x Rumored specs changing?

Zion Halcyon

Zion Halcyon

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Taken from Rumors About Upcoming AMD Radeon RX 490


The Radeon RX 490 marks an entry of AMD's Polaris 10 GPU, the flagship of the Polaris family. The website wccftech.com goes in details about the features and specs of the upcoming cutting-edge RX 490, based on a SiSoft Sandra benchmark spotted online. According to the leaked specs on wccftech.com, AMD Polaris 10 powered RX 490 will come with a 256 bit bus, 8GB VRAM and 2304 GCN 4.0 cores.

Another specialized website, videocardz.com, gives people different specs. According to it, the Radeon RX 490 will come with a 4096 bit bus, 16GB HBM2 VRAM and 4096 GCN cores. The video card will work at a base clock speed of 1.2GHz and will provide a computer power of 9.830 GFLOPS.
​

I know some will say that this proves that WCCF is baloney.

However, I have a different theory (plus, I am fucking bored).

Given what Kyle said about AMD, and their surprise at the GTX 1080, what if the specs from WCCFTech are what AMD was originally planning the 490x to be, and then NVidia just mic-dropped them with Pascal.

They then decided they will get their asses handed to them at those specs, so they decided to shoot for the ones videocardz is posting in order to compete, even if it meant delaying the 490x, which was originally meant to be a part of the computex party.

However, even though that is what they are targeting, they are having some severe issues trying to get Polaris to reach levels competitive with the 1080, even with the architectural changes via moving to HBM2 and more cores, due to heat and bad scalability?


anyway /tinfoilhat_off


Have at it, Nvidots and AMDolts!


:)​
 
You were doing fine but then this happened

Zion Halcyon said:
However, even though that is what they are targeting, they are having some severe issues trying to get Polaris to reach levels competitive with the 1080, even with the architectural changes via moving to HBM2 and more cores, due to heat and bad scalability?
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Uhem, Polaris was never meant to have HBM2 to our knowledge, that was always reserved for largest GPU (Greenland/Vega 11 or Vega 10)
 
WCCF just mislabeled the 480 as 490 in the title of their article. They even categorize it correctly in their chart.
 
lolfail9001 said:
You were doing fine but then this happened



Uhem, Polaris was never meant to have HBM2 to our knowledge, that was always reserved for largest GPU (Greenland/Vega 11 or Vega 10)
Click to expand...


Like I said. Boredom.

deal-with-it-cat11.jpeg
 
Yeah, 232mm2 chip at 2ghz while having 16gb HBM2 on a NANO sized PCB with no PCI-E power and a Roy Taylor autographed backplate to show off your AMD love. If Polaris aligns with the other stars this will be an overclockers dream says Joe Macri.
 
My guess is the RX-480x will be the fully enabled Polaris 10 with 2560 cores and 8GB GDDR5. It'll run ~10% faster than the 480 and list st $299. They'll get this out in a couple months, when they accumulate enough of them to sell. It will also be a heck of a good deal.

The RX-490 will be Vega, in 2017, with HBM2.
 
There will be no +X cards. AMD will drop the "something something X" moniker. It will be almost purely numeric.

You will have RT450, RT455, RT460, RT465, RX70, RX475, you get the idea.

So we will see Vega be the RX490, and possibly a Fury2.


/prophecy.
 
Rx 480x sounds stupid. Plus this thread is based on baseless rumors. I am more mad at the article than the thread lol. Can't believe I clicked. LOL

Unless AMD is planning on killing the Fury name then yea vega will be 490 if they are planning on keeping the fury name there wont more than 2 cards base on HBM2, I doubt amd tries to do that with tight supply and the cost it will come with. No way they can price those cards too cheap.

So 490 will either be full polaris 490 and 490x will come about if amd is killing the fury line.

I am pretty sure AMD won't have 4 cards with fury line up. If 490's are vega cards they will all be enthusiast cards and now you have nothing between 200-400. Just doesn't make sense.

We have to wait to see what comes after rs 480 that will determine everything. I am thinking if there is a card at 300 it might be 490 with full 40 CUs
 
KazeoHin said:
There will be no +X cards. AMD will drop the "something something X" moniker. It will be almost purely numeric.

You will have RT450, RT455, RT460, RT465, RX70, RX475, you get the idea.

So we will see Vega be the RX490, and possibly a Fury2.


/prophecy.
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This I think you and me are on the same page. It doesn't make sense to have 490 490x and then fury lineup? No way 4 cards with HBM2, too high of a cost. Then if either or we don't have anything in between.

I am thinking the same. 480 485 490 and then Fury 2 and Fury x2.
 
NKD said:
This I think you and me are on the same page. It doesn't make sense to have 490 490x and then fury lineup? No way 4 cards with HBM2, too high of a cost. Then if either or we don't have anything in between.

I am thinking the same. 480 485 490 and then Fury 2 and Fury x2.
Click to expand...

Little Vega will not have HBM 2. Only Fat Vega. No WAY HBM of any sort can be put on a card less than $500 and still make a profit.
 
schizo said:
My guess is the RX-480x will be the fully enabled Polaris 10 with 2560 cores and 8GB GDDR5. It'll run ~10% faster than the 480 and list st $299. They'll get this out in a couple months, when they accumulate enough of them to sell. It will also be a heck of a good deal.

The RX-490 will be Vega, in 2017, with HBM2.
Click to expand...

If rx 490 is vega then what about the fury line? IF fury line exists we have too many cards with HBM2, not happening.
 
KazeoHin said:
Little Vega will not have HBM 2. Only Fat Vega. No WAY HBM of any sort can be put on a card less than $500 and still make a profit.
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I know but if we have 2 HBM2 cards, are they 490? or are they fury? No way AMD is having more than 2 cards based on HBM2. I doubt they have 4 cards above 500.

If they are killing the fury name than yea I believe they might be called 490 495 who knows
 
Unless AMD gives up on the x90 line which they could certainly do, they don't have anything else to label as Fury until at least Q2/Q3 2017.
 
NKD said:
I know but if we have 2 HBM2 cards, are they 490? or are they fury? No way AMD is having more than 2 cards based on HBM2. I doubt they have 4 cards above 500.

If they are killing the fury name than yea I believe they might be called 490 495 who knows
Click to expand...


My wild guess prophecy is that Little Vega will be the RX490 and RX495, Fat Vega will be the RFXFURY and RFXFURY Extreme
 
KazeoHin said:
My wild guess prophecy is that Little Vega will be the RX490 and RX495, Fat Vega will be the RFXFURY and RFXFURY Extreme
Click to expand...

But that's too many HBM2 cards at the same time. I really don't think that will happen. Unless they there is a 6 month difference between the two. Because I doubt they all come out at the same time.

What my prophecy is lol.

RX 490 at 300 or 350 with GDDR5X or GDDR5 with full chip

then Fury 2 "little Vega" and Fury x2 big vega.

now I give up cuz I am just making shit up at this point lol
 
NKD said:
But that's too many HBM2 cards at the same time. I really don't think that will happen. Unless they there is a 6 month difference between the two. Because I doubt they all come out at the same time.

What my prophecy is lol.

RX 490 at 300 or 350 with GDDR5X or GDDR5 with full chip

then Fury 2 "little Vega" and Fury x2 big vega.

now I give up cuz I am just making shit up at this point lol
Click to expand...

As I was saying before, Little Vega will not use HBM of any sort. only Big Vega will.

Little Vega = competition for 1080 and 1070.

Fat Vega: Competition for 1080ti and TitanV
 
KazeoHin said:
As I was saying before, Little Vega will not use HBM of any sort. only Big Vega will.

Little Vega = competition for 1080 and 1070.

Fat Vega: Competition for 1080ti and TitanV
Click to expand...


I guess. We will then have 2560 shaders (490) 2816 (495) shaders both with gddr5x and fury x and fury x2 with current shader amounts we have now with HBM2?

the 8gb 485 with the same specs as 480 other than memory? I gues we have all the models covered lol..
 
NKD said:
I guess. We will then have 2560 shaders (490) 2816 (495) shaders both with gddr5x and fury x and fury x2 with current shader amounts we have now with HBM2?

the 8gb 485 with the same specs as 480 other than memory? I gues we have all the models covered lol..
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Well, there ARE some rumours regarding the current RX480 being a cut-down version of Fat Polaris, which would mean up to 1/4 of the chip is disabled. This is most likely due to ensure there are significant yields, as a chip with a slight defect can still be cut-down and sold as an RX480. Meanwhile, a certain percentage of the 'perfect' chips would be set aside for the RX485, to build up the stock before it gets announced and goes on sale.
 
Yes, largely because 2304 is an odd number and 2560 isn't. But that's 36 CUs at 64 cores/CU, so that's not necessarily the case. AMD has released GPUs with odd numbers before; the 390x had 2816 SPs.
 
Neither of those websites are even remotely close to reputable sources.,
 
I'm a tad bit frustrated with the lack of information at this close to release. The "Polaris Event" could have had more well.. Polaris info. Okay, we know what the RX 480 will be, but we know there will be a $200 part. Where is the "top-of-the-line / big / fat" Polaris and what might it be called? I assumed this was the version with all cores activated, 8gb of RAM (GDDR5 or GDDR5X) or more, that would be a step or two up in price from the 199 offering. When will it be releasing? Alongside the RX 480 I hope; I don't want things dragged out if they can be avoided.

Now, I always figured Vega was to be the brand new (not at all in the Polaris line/chip) HBM2 powered high end, $500+ kit. On naming, I can't imagine they'd simply call such a momentous step up, as well as a brand new card in a different family the RX 490. Clearly this should the "Fury 2, , Fury V etc" I'd think. Especially if the roadmap means Vega in later-than-Q1 2017! If this isn't the case and Vega is either A) coming sometime in October as rumored or B) is a non HBM2 card, that complicates things even more as far as what to buy and when.

We simply need more info! Speculation is natural and some of course take it too far for clickbait and rumor mongering, but it seems at this stage we should really have a better idea of what to expect.
 
Xaeos said:
I'm a tad bit frustrated with the lack of information at this close to release. The "Polaris Event" could have had more well.. Polaris info. Okay, we know what the RX 480 will be, but we know there will be a $200 part. Where is the "top-of-the-line / big / fat" Polaris and what might it be called? I assumed this was the version with all cores activated, 8gb of RAM (GDDR5 or GDDR5X) or more, that would be a step or two up in price from the 199 offering. When will it be releasing? Alongside the RX 480 I hope; I don't want things dragged out if they can be avoided.
Now, I always figured Vega was to be the brand new (not at all in the Polaris line/chip) HBM2 powered high end, $500+ kit. On naming, I can't imagine they'd simply call such a momentous step up, as well as a brand new card in a different family the RX 490. Clearly this should the "Fury 2, , Fury V etc" I'd think. Especially if the roadmap means Vega in later-than-Q1 2017! If this isn't the case and Vega is either A) coming sometime in October as rumored or B) is a non HBM2 card, that complicates things even more as far as what to buy and when.
We simply need more info! Speculation is natural and some of course take it too far for clickbait and rumor mongering, but it seems at this stage we should really have a better idea of what to expect.
Click to expand...

There is no lack of information that what you heard is what AMD will do the other offerings supposedly are lower power then RX 480. If you google stuff you might actually see a quote somewhere that hints that there are "unrestrained" RX 480 planned but then you would need more power now you can draw your own conclusions on what AMD shared at Computex 2016. Pointing out that Vega is the performance part (and is supposedly not due this year).
 
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Well the full Polaris could be the Rx490 - depending upon performance $299-$345

Now the question is will the next Fury line be $445 and up? Really competing on the price with a halo 16gb Monstrosity, liquid cooled etc for $700 or higher?

I think we need to see what Polaris can really do plus how well it OC if at all. If there is a lot of lead way for increase clock speeds then DDR5x ram and a full Polaris chip could be the new RX 490. If it performs better than a 1070 (I kinda doubt this but who knows) it price can be $399 or higher. Pushing the Fury 2 line in the $500 range. Once again I think Nvidia great performing Polaris chips is making next generation of AMD chips sweat a little.
 
noko said:
Well the full Polaris could be the Rx490 - depending upon performance $299-$345

Now the question is will the next Fury line be $445 and up? Really competing on the price with a halo 16gb Monstrosity, liquid cooled etc for $700 or higher?

I think we need to see what Polaris can really do plus how well it OC if at all. If there is a lot of lead way for increase clock speeds then DDR5x ram and a full Polaris chip could be the new RX 490. If it performs better than a 1070 (I kinda doubt this but who knows) it price can be $399 or higher. Pushing the Fury 2 line in the $500 range. Once again I think Nvidia great performing Polaris chips is making next generation of AMD chips sweat a little.
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You will actually know how well vega will be or how well 490 will be. If Polaris is around 11-120 watt than we know they can probably clock 490 much higher to compete with 1070 or above. If we go by last year we had maxwell clocking at around 1400-1500, and max oc on hawaii at 28nm was around 1150.

If we go by those speeds and we keep the same probability of clocks. We should be able to conclude that the absolute max a high end chip from amd will clock around 1600-1750 that is keeping it below 300-3500mhz pascal parts.

If rx480 is being clocked at 1266 and its a 200 dollar part. I would expect much higher clocks from higher end parts. I think GCN 4.0 will probably max out at 1600-1750 including overclock Still keeping max clocks below nivida around 300-350.
 
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NKD said:
You will actually know how well vega will be or how well 490 will be. If Polaris is around 11-120 watt than we know they can probably clock 490 much higher to compete with 1070 or above. If we go by last year we had maxwell clocking at around 1400-1500, and max oc on hawaii at 28nm was around 1150.

If we go by those speeds and we keep the same probability of clocks. We should be able to conclude that the absolute max a high end chip from amd will clock around 1600-1750 that is keeping it below 300-3500mhz pascal parts.

If rx480 is being clocked at 1266 and its a 200 dollar part. I would expect much higher clocks from higher end parts. I think GCN 4.0 will probably max out at 1600-1750 including overclock Still keeping max clocks below nivida around 300-350.
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Unless the 480 1266mhz is pushing the clocks like with the FuryX which had very little OC room left. Sometimes the cut down version has more lead way for increase clock speed. I hope that is not the case and we see a faster full but still Overclockable Polaris in the bunch. I would be very surprised if AMD has a Polaris version over 1400mhz but one can hope. If AMD locks down low power, very good performance and gets into Laptop's and OEM's that would be a great win. I am hoping the new price structure is carried all the way up and Glo-Flo can deliver the gpu's.

Vega to me is where it is at, I would like to get another HBM card vice a DDR5(x) card. So many advantages in having a smaller box GPU in a smaller case which allows more airflow for everything else and less cramp. Plus a more usable multi-GPU solution where it works better than in the past. I was very surprised seeing Nvidia limiting SLI to two cards - to me that tells me Nvidia design is not very scalable when adding GPU's. Just looking at AMD scaling with multiple cards tells a clear story of better scalability and with DX12 this just becomes way more important. We may see 3 RX 480 8gb version match up to 2 1080's and beat two 1070's, cheaper and maybe even with less power use. Except unless games uses that ability that may not mean much. Hopefully AMD gives out a whole bunch of Radeon Pro Duo's to developers to use for multi-GPU use in the future.
 
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NKD said:
Rx 480x sounds stupid
Click to expand...

We've been down this road already with the X850XTX, X1950XTX and it was abandoned years ago.

I definitely agree with you, I don't believe we'll be seeing anything RX***X this time. If they need to make room or refresh if anything we'll probably see RX 485/495 etc.
 
Is this a thread where we can later look back and see who was the best guesser?

I think the 480 was announced to win time, since the 'mic drop' from nvidia, with their 1080 was more powerful than expected. I imagine they are working hard, atm, to make their bigger cards compete better. I also expect their bigger cards, when they come out, to run very hot, since I think if they were surprised about the power of the 1080's they would need to push the hardware more than planned at first, maybe even release their biggest card with a water cooler.

Ah, speculation.
 
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BBMorti said:
Is this a thread where we can later look back and see who was the best guesser?

I think the 480 was announced to win time, since the 'mic drop' from nvidia, with their 1080 was more powerful than expected. I imagine they are working hard, atm, to make their bigger cards compete better. I also expect their bigger cards, when they come out, to run very hot, since I think if they were surprised about the power of the 1080's they would need to push the hardware more than planned at first, maybe even release their biggest card with a water cooler.

Ah, speculation.
Click to expand...

LOL I speculate you will be wrong. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Now to guess more.
with RX 480 we will see best bang for buck. Amd is saying Lets sell as many as we can

then AMD will slowly release higher end cards and try to beat Nvidia before they launch big pascal. Now you have AMD's full lineup ahead of Nvidia's full line up. Nvidia has high end and then mid range and then more high end, while AMD is going with Trickle up strategy.. I will win, Damn it!
 
More guessing? :D

470 = 370 + 14nm + clock boost + GCN 4 + 4gb ram
480 = 380 + 14nm + clock boost + GCN 4 + 8gb ram + more CUs/Shaders
490 = 390 + 14nm + clock boost + GCN 4 + 8gb gddrx5 ram
Vega = Fury + 14nm + clock boost + GCN 4 + 8/16gb HBM2 ram

As for the GCN 4 updates, they include new/updated: Command Processor, Geometry Processor, Computer Units, Multimedia Core, Display Engine, Memory Controllers, Delta Color Compression and more L2 Cache....

the 480/Vega (380/Fury) have already implemented the updated Geometry Processor, Display Engine, Delta Color Compression and L2 Cache increase. So gain the least from the actual GCN updates, although there seem to still be many...

The 470/490 (370/390) seemingly have more room for improvement from the GCN updates, with the 470 (370/270/7870) coming from GCN 1.0 and the 490 (390/290) coming from GCN1.1. The 490 (390/290) will also get faster gddrx5...

The 480 (380) gets extra improvement with a CU jump from 28 to 32 and a shader jump from 2056 to 2304, as well as the GCN and clock boosts...

Vega (Fury) will get a much needed memory bump for the 4k range with more memory and faster memory, along with some helpful GCN and clock boosts, and hopefully some much needed TMU/ROP increases...
 
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Would be something amazing if AMD can drop a 480x (or 490, whatever) at the end of the month @ $299 that will trade blows with the 1070. I would definitely consider one until the new cards come around. NV keeps these new cards in short supply, it may just come to that if AMD can come to the table w/ something and an actual product with availability.
 
Check this out! I win speculation game with most guesses.

found this. I really think out of all the back and forth this below makes the most sense. RX 480 4gb at 199, 8gb at 229 or 249 and then RX 490 at 299. Then Vega.


This was on Reditt. What if the June 29th NDA is for the 480x/490 and the 480 NDA is sooner • /r/Amd

AtlasRushIntel Core i7 5960X/R9 390X - ReHWolution Editor in chief 40 points 5 days ago

480X doesn't exist. There's 3 cards in the Polaris lineup, 470 480 and 490, NDA for 480 expires on 29th. No spy plots, no conspiracy shit, nothing of nothing. Stop creating stories, please.

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  • zOo2oo 2 points 5 days ago

    AMD are moving away from the X suffixes as they find it's confusing to customers.. all AMD cards from now on (well.. Polaris anyway) will either start with just an R or an RX at the beginning. For eg.. R480 / RX480 or R490 / RX490AtlasRushIntel Core i7 5960X/R9 390X - ReHWolution Editor in chief 9 points 5 days ago

    According to my source, R should be fore Polaris 11 cards (R 460, 450, 440), while upper GPUs should be RXs.zOo2oo 1 point 5 days ago

    Agreed.. my example wasn't the greatest but that's what I meant :)AtlasRushIntel Core i7 5960X/R9 390X - ReHWolution Editor in chief 1 point 5 days ago

    You got some similar source? :)

He added this little later as well.

AtlasRushIntel Core i7 5960X/R9 390X - ReHWolution Editor in chief 1 point 5 days ago

No speculations from me, internal sources: there will be 3 Polaris GPUs, we only heard about the middle one, the lower will be 24 CUs for 119-139$ (RX or R470), the higher between 40 (not really smart) to 48 (that would cut down earnings if it's gonna fit in the 300$ range but it's possible). AFAIK, 44 could be the right candidate.
 
Im excited to see where the 490 will fall. I also dont think it is Vega. I think Vega will be branded Fury or 500 series.

Based on my speculation... if the 480 (380x+) gets up to 390/980/Fury territory, it will be interesting to see where the 490 (390x) gets to with similar improvements... It really could go head to head with the 1070, and perhaps the NDA was so AMD could sit back and pick their price based on the nVidia cards... If they really released something at 980ti/TitanX+ level for $300-$350, they could destroy the 1070 the same way the 980ti destroyed the Fury X...
 
I would just like to see AMD finally come out with something to be on par with Team Green and possibly edge it. Would be nice to have a budget price gpu that performs at or better then a 1080. Still rocking a 290x and waiting for things to pan out. 1080 world sounds like a shit storm of problems right now. Hardly a performance increase across non FE cards yet pricing states otherwise, freezing, glitching you name it EVGA forums are a buzz.
 
scgt1 said:
I would just like to see AMD finally come out with something to be on par with Team Green and possibly edge it. Would be nice to have a budget price gpu that performs at or better then a 1080. Still rocking a 290x and waiting for things to pan out. 1080 world sounds like a shit storm of problems right now. Hardly a performance increase across non FE cards yet pricing states otherwise, freezing, glitching you name it EVGA forums are a buzz.
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You mean Nvidia are destroying their own reputation with this card ?
Why would AMD even have to do anything about it. The stereo type still applies, people will say about AMD that their drivers suck and still buy Nvidia and now there forced to bathe in their own filth ;)

You have seen AMD approach to the problem they suggest buying 2 RX 480 ;) .
 
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scgt1 said:
I would just like to see AMD finally come out with something to be on par with Team Green and possibly edge it. Would be nice to have a budget price gpu that performs at or better then a 1080. Still rocking a 290x and waiting for things to pan out. 1080 world sounds like a shit storm of problems right now. Hardly a performance increase across non FE cards yet pricing states otherwise, freezing, glitching you name it EVGA forums are a buzz.
Click to expand...

A while ago AMD had the 7970 Ghz, 5-10% lead over anything Nvidia had to offer. nobody cared. Nvidia still sold more cards in one month than AMD had in the company's lifetime.
 
KazeoHin said:
A while ago AMD had the 7970 Ghz, 5-10% lead over anything Nvidia had to offer. nobody cared. Nvidia still sold more cards in one month than AMD had in the company's lifetime.
Click to expand...
Had one of those. It took up the ghost and just posted a black screen. Tried baking it. No change. So I completely upgraded my computer lol. Still rocking that replacement and running ultra on anything I throw at it.
 
KazeoHin said:
A while ago AMD had the 7970 Ghz, 5-10% lead over anything Nvidia had to offer. nobody cared. Nvidia still sold more cards in one month than AMD had in the company's lifetime.
Click to expand...


Tell me about it. Nvidia sells its products due to mindshare/brand awareness more so than benchmarks. Nvidia will always sell more cards due to this fact alone even if they come out with crappy hardware/Drivers which they have done several times before. During the GPU wars, never have ATI or AMD out sold Nvidia. Even the R300(9700) which was the far superior product than anything on the market at the time, sold less than the crappy Fx.
 
Spyhawk said:
Tell me about it. Nvidia sells its products due to mindshare/brand awareness more so than benchmarks. Nvidia will always sell more cards due to this fact alone even if they come out with crappy hardware/Drivers which they have done several times before. During the GPU wars, never have ATI or AMD out sold Nvidia. Even the R300(9700) which was the far superior product than anything on the market at the time, sold less than the Fx.
Click to expand...

As I've said it before, AMD could literally give away Pro Duo cards in bulk as fast as they can manufacture them, yet Nvidia would outsell them by charging $799 for pieces of soggy dung (literally, not a metaphor) with a geforce sticker on it.

AMD is right to say "F**k it, we're competing for the midrange first". It doesen't matter what product they put out in the top-end: if Nvidia has something that costs more, it will sell larger numbers.
 
Spyhawk said:
Tell me about it. Nvidia sells its products due to mindshare/brand awareness more so than benchmarks. Nvidia will always sell more cards due to this fact alone even if they come out with crappy hardware/Drivers which they have done several times before. During the GPU wars, never have ATI or AMD out sold Nvidia. Even the R300(9700) which was the far superior product than anything on the market at the time, sold less than the crappy Fx.
Click to expand...


That 7970 was a computing, gaming powerhouse for its time. One hell of a card. I had one. It had everything and did it well and kept on getting better for a long time. For once AMD/ATI lead the way in practically all departments but no...it was too pricey compared to the 6970 it was replacing for not that much more perf !! It didnt have Physx and although every other Nividia card prior ran bloody hot, this one was too hot. Anyways nothing AMD/ATI do is ever good enough for some here. They will always find reasons why the card isnt worth consideration even though they have bought Nvidia products with equivalent or worse negatives before.

Thats what being brainwashed to a brand through marketing, mindshare and focus groups does. That brand ends up being at the forefront even when it doesn't belong there.

Having said that...kudos to Nvidia for knowing how to market their products in a way that captured the enthusiasts and through them the rest of mainstream.
 
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