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beating the dead horse OLED

S

shankle

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
89
I understand that the half life of the OLED panels is not good.
Has any company solved this yet? Has the blue problem been
solved? So why would any company want to produce a tv/monitor
with these problems until they have been solved, if they ever will
be? This is the babble of a novice talking so please enlighten me.
 
Every emerging technology has its issues when its new.
Its the new shiny though, and OLED has a brighter picture than the competition, so lots of people will buy one just for that.
Every company will sell a product to anyone willing to part with their money, even if it has known problems. Caveat emptor! (Buyer beware)
 
shankle said:
I understand that the half life of the OLED panels is not good.
Has any company solved this yet? Has the blue problem been
solved? So why would any company want to produce a tv/monitor
with these problems until they have been solved, if they ever will
be? This is the babble of a novice talking so please enlighten me.
Click to expand...

TV size OLED has for the next 4-5 years or so shifted to RGBW OLED instead of RGB in small devices. RGBW uses a white OLED configuration with colour filters over three of the subpixels. In this method the filtered subpixels have an efficiency loss so when displaying a colour the W subpixel emits the neutral luminance and the RGB emits the saturated luminance. This works well because most video colours are not strongly saturated. When the native white point is used differential degradation should not occur; however, the native white point of RGBW systems may be very slightly cyan so correction to 6500K will be required.

When making an estimate of longevity/burn-in, the cd/A of the emitter is required. Now, here's the interesting part. LGD describes a 55" TV with a white efficiency of 90 cd/A which to my knowledge is an exceptional level of efficiency for an OLED display. In fact, you could expect such a display to be more efficient than LCD or PDP.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
TV size OLED has for the next 4-5 years or so shifted to RGBW OLED instead of RGB in small devices.
Click to expand...


I know WOLED (White OLED) with filters is the LG solution (and IMO a very good solution), but is there any evidence that Samsung is following this direction. AFAIK Samsung is using R,G,B OLED like their portable devices.

WOLED solves the weak Blue OLED issues. But it does not solve the overall burn in issue for OLED, though it will be better for the blue channel. LG is also using RGBW pattern for increased efficiency, but that is distinct from WOLED (the terms tend to be used interchangeably).
 
Snowdog said:
I know WOLED (White OLED) with filters is the LG solution (and IMO a very good solution), but is there any evidence that Samsung is following this direction. AFAIK Samsung is using R,G,B OLED like their portable devices.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is hard evidence, but the cost reduction and yield potential of using metal oxide 8G + RGBW creates a strong expectation that SD will follow LGD's suit. OLED TV is expected to eventually settle on a 30% premium over LED LCD, similar to LED LCD over LCD. This requires a minimized panel cost with high yields.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
I don't think there is hard evidence, but the cost reduction and yield potential of using metal oxide 8G + RGBW creates a strong expectation that SD will follow LGD's suit. OLED TV is expected to eventually settle on a 30% premium over LED LCD, similar to LED LCD over LCD. This requires a minimized panel cost with high yields.
Click to expand...

Samsungs Price was sort of revealed today. It translated to around $9000 vs around $8000 expected for the LG.

At the same time I read a bit, and most things seem to point to Samsung using actual R,G, B OLED pixels instead of the WOLED with filters than LG is using.

http://www.oled-info.com/super-oled-tv
"Samsung focuses on the fact that they are using 'True OLED' RGB subpixels, as opposed to LG Display's white subpixels with color filters architecture (WOLED-CF)"
(though it isnt' clear where they are sourcing that info).

But from Samsungs earlier press release:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/09/samsung-55-inch-super-oled-tv-launch-ces-2012/
"Because Super OLED technology features self-emitting RGB sub-pixels "

No real sign of RGBW or WOLED on the Samsung sets.

It should be interesting to see any comparisons when the both ship. Durability I would give the edge to LG without the weak blue issue. Possibly an efficiency edge with RGBW as well...

These are the first TV reviews I am looking forward to reading in years.
 
In response to why a company would produce something with issues:

All products have issues, and if you are a perfectionist, you probably will not be in business long. The question is not do they last forever or not, but more do they last long enough for you to have enjoyed the benifits. If you could make an OLED that had amazing color that was better than anything on the market, some people would still buy it even if it only lasted 2 years. Some people would buy it just to try it, perhaps you could make enough money off them.


Essentailly we as consumers are already used to making these choices. A car will typically last about 10 years and we will drop 25k on it. So we are loosing 2.5k / year on such an item. If a good OLED lasts just 5 years and costs 5k well 1k per year is doable for alot of people. Eventually it will come down in price to where we either will not care, or we will have forgotten how long a TV could last. Consumers really do have short memories.

Companies do not really ask, are all the problems solved, they ask something more like can I make money, and then will I need to deal with a class action law suit.
 
The first LCD monitors on the market had more issues than a National Geographics collection, so seeing issues in the first mainstream OLEDs should not be a surprise (that is, if they ever DO go mainstream, which remains a big "if"). Those that believe that OLED will solve every issue that LCD monitors still have are in for a rude awakening.
 
Snowdog said:
Samsungs Price was sort of revealed today. It translated to around $9000 vs around $8000 expected for the LG.
Click to expand...

That sounds about right. The premium over LED LCD I mentioned is 3 years out.

Snowdog said:
At the same time I read a bit, and most things seem to point to Samsung using actual R,G, B OLED pixels instead of the WOLED with filters than LG is using.

http://www.oled-info.com/super-oled-tv
"Samsung focuses on the fact that they are using 'True OLED' RGB subpixels, as opposed to LG Display's white subpixels with color filters architecture (WOLED-CF)"
(though it isnt' clear where they are sourcing that info).

But from Samsungs earlier press release:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/09/samsung-55-inch-super-oled-tv-launch-ces-2012/
"Because Super OLED technology features self-emitting RGB sub-pixels "

No real sign of RGBW or WOLED on the Samsung sets.
Click to expand...

SD will have to make a choice here when it brings on its mass production line(s) next year.

Snowdog said:
It should be interesting to see any comparisons when the both ship. Durability I would give the edge to LG without the weak blue issue. Possibly an efficiency edge with RGBW as well...

These are the first TV reviews I am looking forward to reading in years.
Click to expand...

The first thing I'll be skipping to is the power consumption.
 
I hope we see OLED monitors but at the same time I am kinda sad that the legal issues held up SED/FED monitors and by then the manufacturer had given up. They would have been a great tech for monitors and wouldn't have suffered the lifespan issues of OLED particularly the uneven wear of the individual colors.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
Not true; the emitters degrade.
Click to expand...

IIRC SED/FED used CRT Phosphor, so the colors would wear fairly evenly, there is no drastically weaker blue issue, like there is in RGB OLED. AFAIK CRT phosphor is a little more wear resistant than OLED in general.

Good new for LG at least. Weak Blue is a non issue for their WOLED design...

Durability should be reasonable in a TV, as video is a very average signal, that shouldn't lead to burn in.

Computer monitors, I wouldn't hold my breath. That can be the most destructive usage pattern.
 
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