Beast PC in a little case

R

RaiseR RoofeR

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
164
Hey all, I'm hoping you guys could help me build a great PC with a tricky limitation that is *space*.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Hardcore gaming (i.e. everything in the market at max res and max settings), 1080p HD video editing.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
~$2500-3000 (flexible)
3) Where do you live?
Vancouver/Toronto -- notice I live in two locations. So I need something relatively portable (optimally fit in an overhead storage on a plane).
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
I need everything related to the machine itself (i.e. the case and everything inside of it). I do NOT need speakers, a monitor, or any peripherals (keyboard/mouse/etc).
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
I will not be reusing any parts.
6) Will you be overclocking?
No.
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
I have a 24" BenQ 1920x1200 monitor. I also have a 46" 1080p TV that I very well may consider using as well.
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Between March-April. If there's something great coming out towards May or June, I'll wait until then.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
I would like an eSATA port. I would also like Crossfire/SLi support, unless there's simply not enough space in the recommended case (at which point I would like a top of the line card)
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? 32bit or 64bit?
I would get a new OS (Windows 7 64 bit please).

Like previously mentioned, my biggest request is that everything could fit into a nice, small sized ATX tower (one hard drive is fine). I'm thinking about using a LIAN LI PC-A05NB Black Aluminum ATX Mini Tower but I will certainly take any better recommendation, but I ask that you're confident that all that parts you list can fit into the case (for example, RAID configurations might not be an option here if I were to crossfire/sli the cards). I've never physically built a PC from the ground up before, even though I know of all the parts going into them. Oh, and I'm strongly considering using a ASUS Xonar Essence STX PCI-E1 SPDIF Sound Card as I am an audiophile (need to be for my editing work) and use a pair of Grado SR325i headphones. I would NOT be using 5.1 capabilities.

Thanks in advance, everyone.
 
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One complaint I've seen on that Lian Li PC-A05NB is that the power supply is mounted in the front-bottom of the case making the fan noise from the psu more apparent.

Are you set on ATX or would you consider mATX? I'm putting together an i7 mATX rig at the moment. The only problem might be crossfire (not that you would need it with a 5970), which is available on X58 mATX but takes up a lot of space and could block the slot for the sound card you want.
 
smesx said:
One complaint I've seen on that Lian Li PC-A05NB is that the power supply is mounted in the front-bottom of the case making the fan noise from the psu more apparent.

Are you set on ATX or would you consider mATX? I'm putting together an i7 mATX rig at the moment. The only problem might be crossfire (not that you would need it with a 5970), which is available on X58 mATX but takes up a lot of space and could block the slot for the sound card you want.
Click to expand...

I heard the fan noise was only a problem mostly during boot-up, otherwise not so bad. Honestly, noise isn't *too* much of a problem and I'm certainly willing to compensate in the name of its small size. In mentioning this, I'm fully open to any alternatives, i.e. if there are better cases with such a small size.

I've never really looked into mATX. I know there's a bit of a speed and PCI slot compensation going for mATX, and like you mentioned, things may become in issue when it comes to putting in a sound card and other goodies. However, if this is not the case (which is why I ask for [H]Forum's optimal build cause I know you guys know this stuff better than I do), please put together a build for me!

Thanks again.
 
I'd check out lt_shiro's post #2 from this thread it would cover most of your needs. Put it all in that Lian Li case you like. Only thing I would change out is drop the ssd's he has listed in place of this Intel X25m
 
6GB of RAM? For efficient 1080p video editing (ala Premiere Pro CS4)? Either that RAM is unfathomably fast and efficient or that's just a silly recommendation for my needs.

Also, 80GB SSD cards is way too little for storing dailies (raw footage) from a camera, let alone a decent amount of the 150+ games I have on Steam. I'm thinking something along the 10,000RPM arena.

Just a reminder that on top of hardcore gaming, I will be doing professional video editing.

Any other recommendations would be appreciated. I appreciate your input regardless, smesx.
 
RaiseR RoofeR said:
6GB of RAM? For efficient 1080p video editing (ala Premiere Pro CS4)? Either that RAM is unfathomably fast and efficient or that's just a silly recommendation for my needs.

Also, 80GB SSD cards is way too little for storing dailies (raw footage) from a camera, let alone a decent amount of the 150+ games I have on Steam. I'm thinking something along the 10,000RPM arena.
Click to expand...

You know, you could always just get two sets of the Corsair RAM in lt_shiro's post for an even 12GB of RAM. You could also cut costs from lt_shiro's build by ditching the blu-ray player.

Velociraptor drives are totally worthless nowadays for two reasons:
- Many consumer drives offers at least 90% of the performance of a Velociraptor drive but a 1/3 to 1/4th the costs
- SSDs completely outperform Velociraptor drives by a large margin.

In fact, if you check the Data Storage Subforum as well as the newer builds here in the General Hardware, Velociraptors are rarely recommended, regardless of planned use for the PC (Video editing, Photoshop, gaming, etc).

Typically for most SSD setups, there's the SSD (SSD RAID array) used for the OS and critical apps as well as an actively edited file. Then there's a fast mechanical hard drive where games are stored. In your case, you might two fast hard drives: one for games and one for storing your raw footage. So something like two 1TB Black drives might do the trick.
 
Didnt have a lot of time the last time i replied to you so I didnt catch the only 6gb.... I agree, do 12 gb for your video editing. Also meant to add for your storage/working folders I would get a couple Samsung F3's. They are very fast drives and a way better bang for your buck than a 10k rpm drive and like Danny Bui said, you get around 90% of a velociraptor's performance. You could run them in Raid 0 or separate as Danny Bui said. BTW how much working space for the editing do you need/want?

Still keep that intel SSD as your OS/Programs drive. If you have not used a computer with a good SSD running to OS I can't stress enough how much faster it is. Especially at your budget. Also, you wouldn't be keeping all those steam games on the ssd but on a hdd.... look into symbolic links

Along with this you may want to keep in mind an external hdd for backups if this is for work or other sensitive materials you wouldnt want to lose.
 
The following you should be fairly set on:
2x 89.99 SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM
2x 404.99 XFX HD-587A-ZNF9 Radeon HD 5870
1x 199.99 ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1
1x 179.99 CORSAIR CMPSU-850HX 850W
1x 359.99 CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB)
1x 77.89 CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series CWCH50-1
1x 219.99 Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2M080G2XXX 2.5" 80GB SATA II
1x 288.99 Intel Core i7-920
Only things left needed would be a motherboard and a case for all of it to go in.

Puts you at around ~$2,300 before mb/case/shipping.... now is where I think if you really plan on jamming this thing in an overhead compartment that it should be mATX. That could bring some problems with crossfire. Hopefully others can chime in on this. Bed now, I'll see if I can look at this tomorrow.
 
The four good X58 microATX motherboards are the Asus Rampage II GENE, the MSI X58M, the EVGA 121-BL-E756-TR, and the DFI LANPARTY JR X58-T3H6. However, they all share the same problem: The northbridge chipset gets very hot, even during normal operation. If you really want to go microATX/SFF, I recommend going with a P55 board (and the Core i5 750, the Xeon X3440, or the Core i7 860), as most of the northbridge controller features are integrated within the processor itself (thus, no onboard northbridge chipset). However, if you're seriously considering a CrossFire or SLI setup, the X58 chipset supports dual x16 CF and SLI, whereas the P55 chipset is maxed out at dual x8.

A very popular SFF case is Da Box, which is sold in the U.S. by LAN-Gear. There is a huge thread about it in the SFF Systems forum here.
 
Fantastic recommendations, everyone. I really appreciate your help.

So I think I'll go with Da Box (with no window), it looks perfect for my transportation needs. This means -- that as long as I can run games and edit movies with no limitations -- I'll go with mATX.

As for the motherboard, anyone's suggestion here is better than mine. I will not be overclocking, and I will likely want to do a Crossfire setup in the future if I don't do one now. So, with that in mind, I'll take the best recommendation. (As a side note, I remember thinking about getting an mATX rig about 4-5 years ago and being completely underwhelmed with it all by having to make some huge compensations... man, has it come a long way!)

I haven't looked into the SSD + HDD symbolic links thing all that much, although it sounds interesting. I can't say I'm entirely sure why I wouldn't just have the HDD just be a separate drive altogether (D:\ as well as the SSD's C:\ drive) if I don't plan on doing any HDD swapping or adding in the future.

smesx, your setup there includes 6 sticks of RAM -- will an mATX mobo have that many slots? Regarding the HDD -- I think I'll just go with one, cause I would like a BD-Burner in there as well (very crucial for HD film editing with the time comes). Does SATA 6.0Gb/s make much of a difference compared to 3.0? What about a 64MB cache?

Also, the CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series CWCH50-1 is quite the fascinating choice of fan/cooler! I'm digging it (as long as it works with Da Box)

Just another reminder that I'm living in Canada... so newegg.ca (there's a few components in your list smesx that I couldn't find on here but are in the US Newegg), tigerdirect.ca, or ncix.com please (with the exception of the case). This is a price and availability thing, just so I know what I'm getting at. Thanks tiraides for doing this.
 
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IIRC, many people who owned Da Box have used or are also using the Corsair H50 as their CPU cooler.

If you really want CrossFire, the X58 chipset is the way to go. All four boards, IIRC, support both dual x16 CrossFire and dual x16 SLI -- and they all have six RAM slots for dual- and/or tri-channel RAM configurations. (The long story short is that tri-channel outperforms dual-channel.) I personally own the X58M and outside of the northbridge heat issues (that I resolved by using an aftermarket heatsink, the Thermalright HR-05 IFX) I've had no problems with it so far. It's also one of the cheaper X58 mATX boards available.

SATA 6GB/s (or SATA III) doubles the maximum bandwidth available, and it's backwards compatible with SATA I (1.5GB/s) or SATA II (3GB/s) devices. The few SATA III devices that are currently out offer no performance benefit over their SATA II counterparts, but expect that to change in the future as SATA III becomes more mainstream. Increased cache helps things, but if you want a more noticeable performance boost, you might as well go with an SSD.

For those interested in helping the OP -- I may not have time to do so today -- there are links to Canada-based retailers listed in the GenHard FAQ. RaiseR RoofeR, you may have to contact LAN-Gear to see whether or not they will ship (or sell) Da Box to Canada.
 
That's good to hear about the RAM. And I do know that LAN Gear ships to Canada after looking into it. Apparently on the [H]Forum thread, there's a bit of a backlog with the newer model, however.

So the X58 it is (unless anyone can attest otherwise), and I'll stick with a standard 7,200RPM drive as the secondary without SATAIII or the increased cache if the performance isn't worth the price hike.

So, that leaves these questions:
1. Is there enough space with the sound card, BD burner, SSD & HDD *and* Crossfire both in terms of mobo slots and physical space in the case? (should I post this in the Da Box thread?)
2. SSD + HDD the best way to go? (NOT symbolic link [I think it's just unnecessary for my purposes])
3. Does the CORSAIR CMPSU-850HX 850W work with the X58 mobo? Is it enough to drive the two cards in crossfire (a part of me says at least 1000W is needed).

Setup so far (changes/additions from smesx are in bold):

1x DFI LANPARTY JR X58-T3H6
1x Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2M080G2XXX 2.5" 80GB SATA II
1x Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
2x XFX HD-587A-ZNF9 Radeon HD 5870
1x ASUS Xonar Essence STX
1x CORSAIR CMPSU-850HX 850W
1x CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB)
1x CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series CWCH50-1
1x Intel Core i7-930 2.8GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core Desktop Processor
1x Pioneer Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 8X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal Blu-ray Burner
1x LAN-Gear Da Box (windowless)
 
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1) Not enough room for both a sound card and a Crossfire setup. You will need to get an ATX case if you wish to use HD 5870 Crossfire AND a sound card
2) Yes
3) Yes. Not enough however with headroom for overclocking or optimal ranges with a HD 5870 Crossfire setup. A 1000W PSU would be necessary here. Unfortunately, IIRC, most 1000W PSUs will not fit inside the Da Box case.

So it looks like you' might be going back to ATX.
 
Danny Bui said:
1) Not enough room for both a sound card and a Crossfire setup. You will need to get an ATX case if you wish to use HD 5870 Crossfire AND a sound card
...
3) Not enough however with headroom for overclocking or optimal ranges with a HD 5870 Crossfire setup. A 1000W PSU would be necessary here. Unfortunately, IIRC, most 1000W PSUs will not fit inside the Da Box case.
Click to expand...

Alright. Because I need the portability, lets take out the Crossfire then so I can keep the PSU inside the same case and use optimal ranges and overclocking potential (right?), and so I can use the sound card. So, what other changes do I need to make now? I presume I need a new mobo with the extra PCI slot over the Crossfire/SLi slot, or can I put the sound card in one of these?

1x DFI LANPARTY JR X58-T3H6
1x Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2M080G2XXX 2.5" 80GB SATA II
1x Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
1x XFX HD-587A-ZNF9 Radeon HD 5870
1x ASUS Xonar Essence STX
1x CORSAIR CMPSU-850HX 850W
1x CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB)
1x CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series CWCH50-1
1x Intel Core i7-930 2.8GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core Desktop Processor
1x Pioneer Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 8X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal Blu-ray Burner
1x LAN-Gear Da Box (windowless)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
 
RaiseR RoofeR said:
So, what other changes do I need to make now? I presume I need a new mobo with the extra PCI slot over the Crossfire/SLi slot, or can I put the sound card in one of these?
Click to expand...

Since Crossfire is off the table and the fact that the sound card you chose is PCI-E x1, you can use/put the sound card in the second PCI-E x16 slot. Yes a PCI-E x1 card will fit and work in a PCI-E x16 slot and vice versa.
 
Sounds golden!! I'll find the best websites for the price and tally it up and post it here in the next 24 hours. In the meantime, if anyone has any suggestions/objections/recommendations with this setup, let me know!

Thanks for everyone's help! Here's hoping it'll be as good of a rig as it says on paper.
 
If you can find a Radeon HD 5970 in stock somewhere that would be a good middleground if crossfire is out of the picture. May want to make sure it will fit in the case too. But now that I think of it I'd just save the money, go 5870 and then you would have enough to upgrade to a better card down the road (Fermi maybe... if it ever comes out in the next 10-15 years...tic). Something newer and better is always around the corner. So yeah, dont change anything, this setup will kick ass.
 
CrossFire's off the table? Go P55:

$452 - Intel Core i7 860 and Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3P combo deal
$410 - XFX HD-587X-ZNFC HD5870
$110 - G.Skill Ripjaws 2x2GB DDR3 1600
(keep everything else the same)

You'll suffer no noticeable performance drop as most games are largely GPU-driven and don't require lots of RAM to function properly. Plus, with no northbridge or second video card to worry about, you should be able to manage any potential heat issues a bit better than otherwise. (Yes, prices are from NewEgg.ca... no, you don't have to stick with them -- choose your favorite Canadian site, but look for combo deals and other specials.)
 
tiraides said:
CrossFire's off the table? Go P55:
Click to expand...

Well the OP is also doing "1080p HD video editing". So if he's doing that regularly and extensively, then he might be better off with the X58 route due to the extra 4GB of RAM or so.

But you're right about the gaming though
 
Yep, going with the 5970 (thought the 5870 was the best card out... turns out I don't do my research). Which one? I'm thinking XFX (black edition worth a $100 price hike?) or Sapphire. 850W should still cover it, right?

The P55 does look appealing tiraides, but like Danny mentioned I DO need all the RAM slots as well as all the PCI slots I can get with that sound card. I won't be overclocking, so heat shouldn't be an issue.

1x DFI LANPARTY JR X58-T3H6
1x Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2M080G2XXX 2.5" 80GB SATA II
1x Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
1x (XFX?? Sapphire??) Radeon HD 5970
1x ASUS Xonar Essence STX
1x CORSAIR CMPSU-850HX 850W
1x CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB)
1x CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series CWCH50-1
1x Intel Core i7-930 2.8GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core Desktop Processor
1x Pioneer Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 8X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal Blu-ray Burner
1x LAN-Gear Da Box (windowless)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

I'm going to post my config in that Da Box thread and see if it works.

:edit: Few 5970s are actually available though... why is that?
 
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RaiseR RoofeR said:
:edit: I can't seem to find the 5970 actually available though... why is that? Not out yet?
Click to expand...

It's been out. Just out of stock due to limited supply and relatively high demand. Hence why I didn't bother bringing up the HD 5970: You would have to wait a long long time before one of those cards becomes available for sale.
 
Damn... yeah... I'm gonna have to do some eBaying it looks like.

I'm having a hard time kind of figuring out what the PSU specifications are with the thing.

Recommendations said:
650W PCI Express®-compliant system power supply with a combined 12V current rating of 46A or more & One 75W 6-pin and one 150W 8-pin PCI Express power connector.

NOTE: 850 Watt PSU and two 75W 6-pin and two 150W 8-pin connectors for ATI CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode.
Click to expand...

So, wait, does that mean a 850 watt PSU is fine for running this thing, even though it's two cards in one? Is the thing asking for two slots (6-pin and 8-pin?), so don't I run out of room then? Very confused. I really would like a 5970 as the performance increase really is much better it seems.
 
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RaiseR RoofeR said:
So, wait, does that mean a 850 watt PSU is fine for running this thing, even though it's two cards in one? Is the thing asking for two slots (6-pin and 8-pin?), so don't I run out of room then? Very confused. I really would like a 5970 as the performance increase really is much better it seems.
Click to expand...

Yes the the 850HX will be enough for the HD 5970. In addition, the recommendations are asking for one 6Pin PCI-E and one 8Pin PCI-E power connector be available for a single HD 5970. The 850HX has six 6+2Pin PCI-E connectors. So the 850HX has enough connectors for a single HD 5970.
 
Motherboard: ASUS Rampage II Gene mATX - $320 (NCIX)
Processor (SSD): Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2M080G2XXX 2.5" 80GB SATA II - $235 (Newegg)
Processor (HDD): Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s - $100 (Newegg)
GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD 5970 OC Edition 735MHZ 2GB 4.04GHZ DDR5 PCI-E 2XDVI Mini DisplayPort Video Card - $725 (NCIX - on backorder)
Sound Card: ASUS Xonar Essence STX - $230 (NCIX)
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-850HX 850W - $200 (Newegg)
RAM: CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) - $357 (Newegg)
Cooling: CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series CWCH50-1 - $90 (NCIX)
Processor: Intel Core i7-930 2.8GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core Desktop Processor - $325 (Newegg)
BD-ROM: Pioneer Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 8X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal Blu-ray Burner - $230 (Newegg)
Case: DA BOX 100 Blackheart No window - $180US (LAN-Gear)

TOTAL: $3000 CDN

I'll let you guys know when I bite the bullet. Should be within 3 to 5 weeks (still have some pennies to pinch), so expect the product in 6-8 weeks.
 
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Slight update (PSU for dimensions problems, Sapphire 5970 also 2" longer than any other 5970):

Motherboard: ASUS Rampage II Gene mATX - $320 (NCIX)
Processor (SSD): Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2M080G2XXX 2.5" 80GB SATA II - $235 (Newegg)
Processor (HDD): Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s - $100 (Newegg)
GPU: XFX Radeon HD 5970 Black Edition 725MHZ 2GB 4GHZ GDRR5 2XDVI Display Port PCI-E Video Card - $799 (NCIX - on backorder)
Sound Card: ASUS Xonar Essence STX - $230 (NCIX)
PSU: SILVERSTONE ST85F-P 850W ATX 12V v2.3 / EPS 12V 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - $160 (Newegg)
RAM: CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) - $357 (Newegg)
Cooling: CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series CWCH50-1 - $90 (NCIX)
Processor: Intel Core i7-930 2.8GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core Desktop Processor - $325 (Newegg)
BD-ROM: Pioneer Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 8X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal Blu-ray Burner - $230 (Newegg)
Case: DA BOX 100 Blackheart No window - $180US (LAN-Gear)

TOTAL: $3035 CDN
 
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