Battlefield 3 General Discussion Thread

[CaptNumbNutz]

What do you guys use for flying jets? I'm having great difficulty with my mouse and keyboard. Any recommendations for key bindings, or do I really need a gamepad or joystick?

I use a Logitech Extreme 3 joystick for everything but the throttle, view changes, and countermeasures. Joystick in right hand, keyboard in left. The regular keybindings work the best.

The insane pilots doing insane turns are using KB/M with the ingame sensitivity turned all the way up. If you run into these veterans, DO NOT TRY TO OUT TURN THEM. They are easily spotted in the killcam looking like they are flying sideways.

The best thing you can do with these guys is hit and run tactics with full afterburners. If you have one on your tail, do your best to change direction and dash out of there, or at the very least get near your teams AA and/or wingman. The only way to outfly them is to learn to use the kb/m with ultra high sensitivity settings.

1. Flying Tips
All planes turn tightest at a speed of 300, including the clunky F35. This can be seen on your HUD on the left side. If you are in the outside view you can see a dramatic increase in the turn rate as you slow down (use the "S" key)...that's the exact moment you hit 300. However, your planes automatically keep the throttle up to about 325 for some reason, so sometimes you have to keep tapping the "S" key every second or so. Throttle control is especially important in the F35, because any slower and it will attempt to go into hover mode and be a sitting duck...hence all the complaints about its poor maneuverability. Due to this limitation the F35 is better suited for hit and run tactics rather than turn and burn like the SU35 and F18.

2. Weapon Loadout Fighter Planes Only
There are really only 2 viable loadouts for the Fighter planes due to the reload times of countermeasures and fighting against the Aces who outturn you every time.
A. Beam Scanning with Heatseekers: Beam scanning shortens the lockon time dramatically, enough so that sometimes people don't get their countermeasures off or you can lock on to them again before their countermeasures reload. This loadout is best with F18 or SU35 and if you aren't flying against Aces. Its also handy on maps where there are lots of buildings and clutter you can maneuver around to break lock (e.g. Gulf of Oman).
B. Air Radar with Rockets: Air radar is too slow to lock on so it is useless with missles. It is effective at showing where your ememies are and which direction they are headed. This is especially useful when flying against Aces since they use the exact same setup and you can at least determine where they are before you attack or flee. This is also the best setup if you do hit and run attacks like flying against Aces or flying the clunky F35 (see above). Most of the Ace pilots use this setup. The rockets are useful against ground targets and hovering choppers. They are also the only weapon you can reliable attack individual troops on the ground with due to the splash damage.

3. Weapons Loadouts for Attack Planes (Rush mode)
The only real viable load out is Rockets with Proximity Scan or Air Radar. It gives the best overall setup. Guided missiles don't always take out a tank in one shot, where as a quick strafing run with full load of rockets and your gun takes them out quick. Rockets take out infantry with splash damage and hovering helicopters too. Heat seekers are pointless because there are so few air vehicles and you can kill any flying machine quickly with your gun.

4. Countermeasures
A. Flares: the defacto. Just works. Good for Turn and Burn fights and not Hit and Run. It will break a lock but only for a few seconds. Its always best to fire once you hear the missle launch tone.
B. Extinguisher: Good for people who are skilled enough to out turn missles and repair themselves fighting against Aces using guns all the time. Its also better for the tight turning Attack planes that can easily outmaneuver a missle but are too slow to exit the area before another missle lock comes in.
C. ECM/Chaff: Great for hit and run tactics and where there is a lot of AA. Perfect setup for F35 on maps like Wake Island. You have to fire it before the missle fires. Its great to just fire ECM then go full afterburner out of the area.

 

[WiLLiSTER]

Nice, gives a little hope that we may indeed see the patch before the month ends! This is from battlelog.

NOTICE We are rolling out several backend updates as we lay the groundwork for the upcoming patch. We will keep you advised and provide dates ASAP. Online services for PC, Xbox 360, and PlayStation 3 will be going offline March 20th at 9 AM UTC / 1 AM PST until 10 AM UTC / 2 AM PST. Battlefield 3 online multiplayer and the Battlelog services will be unavailable during this time.

 

[socK]

The insane pilots doing insane turns are using KB/M with the ingame sensitivity turned all the way up. If you run into these veterans, DO NOT TRY TO OUT TURN THEM. They are easily spotted in the killcam looking like they are flying sideways.

Um no, all you need to do is bind pulling up to your space bar or some shit. It's that simple.

 

[castun]

Um no, all you need to do is bind pulling up to your space bar or some shit. It's that simple.

Yep. A KB button bound to pull up is what gives the KBM pilots the instant 100% pull up reaction that you see. I'm actually amazed more people aren't aware of how that all works.

 

[jbz7890]

Yep. A KB button bound to pull up is what gives the KBM pilots the instant 100% pull up reaction that you see. I'm actually amazed more people aren't aware of how that all works.

The impression I'm getting is that it's easier to fly with a joystick, but the skill ceiling for KBM is higher. Is that generally correct?

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

Um no, all you need to do is bind pulling up to your space bar or some shit. It's that simple.

Not necessarily what I'm talking about. That is one part of it though.

I'm talking about them nearly flying sideways. As if their rudders were the size of barn doors. They "skid" through the air with their noses pointed ahead of where the plane is actually flying. The guys I've seen do it well were maybe at a 30 degree bank at most and they fly in oval like turning radius...at the apex of their turn they will go full 90 degree bank and do the maneuver you are talking about.

 

[Valshistixol]

The impression I'm getting is that it's easier to fly with a joystick, but the skill ceiling for KBM is higher. Is that generally correct?

If you bind spacebar to Pitch Up in the jets it's easy with KB/M.

IMHO Joystick has a way higher skill ceiling since it's way harder to aim if you've never really used one before.

 

[defiant007]

I cannot wait to sign up for my BF subscription service!

http://www.shacknews.com/article/72919/ea-looking-into-battlefield-subscription-service

Oh wait, yes I can!

 

[defiant007]

How easy is it to get on a voice chat server with random people in some random pub unless they specifically list a TS3/whatever server for that pub?

It's not "being lazy", it's just an annoying amount of work when there really shouldn't be any.

This.

It is being lazy.
I agree you shouldn't have to do it.

But every clan server has a web page.
Finding there voice chat server's IP is not hard at all.

We can put hundreds of hours of play time in.
But it's a annoying amount of work to install TS3 and enter IP.
Where is that damn pic of Captain Picard when you need it.

No everyone is a high school/college student with copious amounts of free time to spend getting involved with clans and arranging for specific times to play with clan members. When you have job, family and social commitments which take up 98% of your time, its not that much to expect that a game simply work if a person wishes to play it on a whim.

 

[U R DOA]

This.



No everyone is a high school/college student with copious amounts of free time to spend getting involved with clans and arranging for specific times to play with clan members. When you have job, family and social commitments which take up 98% of your time, its not that much to expect that a game simply work if a person wishes to play it on a whim.

Weak.
I work 50 hours a week, getting married in September.
Getting involved with clans, arranging specific times?
You log in and play, guys are in voice chat.
Not only that you get to know the players, which trumps playing with randoms if you ask me.
To each his own.

I had the same attitude as you for a long time.
Then I still didn't get voip. So I did something about it.

 

[Skizzy]

Happens with any game that has a lot of problems.

Are we playing the same game? I've heard nothing but praise for the game. People were basically sucking its cock when it came out and even some COD players I know switched over. I don't understand.

I only have around 48 hours on my soldier (about to hit Colonel), but I haven't had but a couple issues which were easily remedied by waiting for a map change or restarting the client. I only play a few rounds a day so maybe I'm missing some huge bugs or something. I don't see anyone ever complaining about the game in chat other than the usual "fuck snipers" comments.

I am still having a blast "owning noobs" and don't see myself stopping any time soon. I've even finally convinced a couple friends to pick it up and whenever we're on together (we have opposite work shifts) we have a good time.

 

[defiant007]

Are we playing the same game? I've heard nothing but praise for the game.

You obviously haven't spent any time in the EA UK or battlelog forums. Reading through them always gives me a chuckle, like this classic pic.

 

[Hamish Campbell]

The BF3 minimap isn't completely useless, but its pretty damn close compared to BF2's. My biggest gripe is that it doesn't retain it's size or zoom level after deaths or hopping in and out of vehicles. What the fuck Dice?

 

[Valshistixol]

I find that it's usable some maps and just a fucking blob of shit no matter what level of zoom you use on other maps.

 

[imsirovic5]

Weak.
I work 50 hours a week, getting married in September.
Getting involved with clans, arranging specific times?
You log in and play, guys are in voice chat.
Not only that you get to know the players, which trumps playing with randoms if you ask me.
To each his own.

I had the same attitude as you for a long time.
Then I still didn't get voip. So I did something about it.

working 50 hours a week is very managable, try 80 - 90 hours a week in investment banking...

 

[david_]

working 50 hours a week is very managable, try 80 - 90 hours a week in investment banking...

Harder: Find a job in investment banking.

The mini-map is useless. I also hate how hard it is to see what checkpoint you're trying to spawn at in the loadout screen.

 

[WiLLiSTER]

Harder: Find a job in investment banking.

The mini-map is useless. I also hate how hard it is to see what checkpoint you're trying to spawn at in the loadout screen.

Or when it shows the wrong person and you end up spawning in a completely different area than you were expecting...

 

[MavericK]

Are we playing the same game? I've heard nothing but praise for the game. People were basically sucking its cock when it came out and even some COD players I know switched over. I don't understand.

Clearly you haven't read a lot of this thread (I don't blame you though, it's like 330 pages). But suffice to say, yes, a good number of people have legitimate complaints with the game. For me personally, it's:

-Balance issues (which keep fluctuating wildly and seem to get overall worse with each patch)
-Half the time on certain maps at the start the game will just crash for no apparent reason
-Minimap and commo rose are useless, as others have said
-No in-game VoIP option, which for a primary teamplay-based game just seems unacceptable to me

Don't get me wrong, I played enough to get to Rank 23 or so and played a lot of the beta, but besides some random co-op to help out a friend get some unlocks, I haven't really even touched the game in months.

Weak.
I work 50 hours a week, getting married in September.
Getting involved with clans, arranging specific times?
You log in and play, guys are in voice chat.
Not only that you get to know the players, which trumps playing with randoms if you ask me.
To each his own.

I had the same attitude as you for a long time.
Then I still didn't get voip. So I did something about it.

Some people want to just be able to hop on a game and play, not be required to play with clans or organize times and shit. I don't get why you are arguing against this. I understand that you feel complaining about not having it is useless, but a lot of people complained about the squad system and DICE fixed it before launch. AFAIK they also mentioned adding VoIP but then backed out for whatever reason. So sometimes complaints can get results.

Sure, in an ideal world we would know everyone we played with, had available TS3 servers with everyone together at all times and played all at once, but in reality that's not how it is for a lot of people and it has nothing to do with being lazy.

Using TS3 because a game doesn't have VoIP is not a solution, it's a workaround.

 

[Adam.C]

Clearly you haven't read a lot of this thread (I don't blame you though, it's like 330 pages). But suffice to say, yes, a good number of people have legitimate complaints with the game. For me personally, it's:

-Balance issues (which keep fluctuating wildly and seem to get overall worse with each patch)
-Half the time on certain maps at the start the game will just crash for no apparent reason
-Minimap and commo rose are useless, as others have said
-No in-game VoIP option, which for a primary teamplay-based game just seems unacceptable to me

Don't get me wrong, I played enough to get to Rank 23 or so and played a lot of the beta, but besides some random co-op to help out a friend get some unlocks, I haven't really even touched the game in months.

Exactly my thoughts and exactly why I also stopped playing after I reached about rank 26 after release. I played maybe the first month and that's about it. I will probably handle this much like I did BF2 and start really playing after the first year. usually the better players and teamwork type players stick around. And hopefully by then we get an in game VOIP option. If not, there is no way I will probably ever play this game again. it is just too frustrating without VOIP, and feels like COD which I dislike.

 

[WarriorX]

Clearly you haven't read a lot of this thread (I don't blame you though, it's like 330 pages). But suffice to say, yes, a good number of people have legitimate complaints with the game. For me personally, it's:

-Balance issues (which keep fluctuating wildly and seem to get overall worse with each patch)
-Half the time on certain maps at the start the game will just crash for no apparent reason
-Minimap and commo rose are useless, as others have said
-No in-game VoIP option, which for a primary teamplay-based game just seems unacceptable to me

Don't get me wrong, I played enough to get to Rank 23 or so and played a lot of the beta, but besides some random co-op to help out a friend get some unlocks, I haven't really even touched the game in months.



Some people want to just be able to hop on a game and play, not be required to play with clans or organize times and shit. I don't get why you are arguing against this. I understand that you feel complaining about not having it is useless, but a lot of people complained about the squad system and DICE fixed it before launch. AFAIK they also mentioned adding VoIP but then backed out for whatever reason. So sometimes complaints can get results.

Sure, in an ideal world we would know everyone we played with, had available TS3 servers with everyone together at all times and played all at once, but in reality that's not how it is for a lot of people and it has nothing to do with being lazy.

Using TS3 because a game doesn't have VoIP is not a solution, it's a workaround.

Curious what balance issues you are talking about? Pressing Q while looking at a medic or support will ask for thier stuff. Still up to the player to listen. No commorose is going to fix that. What do you want it to do?

 

[Business6]

I'm just fucking tired of being behind cover for a second or two and then dying. Ping is 40 and I get punished for it. Fuck that

 

[Spidey329]

Not necessarily what I'm talking about. That is one part of it though.

I'm talking about them nearly flying sideways. As if their rudders were the size of barn doors. They "skid" through the air with their noses pointed ahead of where the plane is actually flying. The guys I've seen do it well were maybe at a 30 degree bank at most and they fly in oval like turning radius...at the apex of their turn they will go full 90 degree bank and do the maneuver you are talking about.

You can do that if you bind both (use BF3 Settings third party tool) airbrakes to a button on the joystick (there's a light brake and a heavy brake). Holding that while also holding afterburner or full throttle plus full rudder left or or right will allow you to "slip stream" (what I call it) sideways in flight. If you get good enough at it, it's actually possible to clip your wing on lightposts and do a complete 180 without destroying yourself. It's kinda funny in a wtf-moment way.

I still don't get why they didn't put proper throttle controls in for the jets in BF3. Probably the same reason they didn't give us a Conquest map with the A10/Su25. Or proper Joystick support (I can't use my rudder pedals).

And btw, isn't Air Radar and Below Radar supposed to be perma-unlocks? Like they don't have to be selected to function, once you get them you have them. I thought I remember reading that is how it is supposed to be, but it doesn't function 100% correctly (bugged).

 

[Deleted member 178510]

I am god awful at this game atm... but I'll get better... I spent my first day running around not realizing my "assault" soldier was actually a healer . I was wondering why that "Q" thing kept popping up. I spent my time running around the zones cover to cover dazed and confused until I realized the amber lifebars were the folks I was supposed to shoot.

Yeah, I'm terrible, but at least I can face it.

That said, game is a ton of fun and looks amazing. Playing the campaign mode on the hardest setting is no joke either.

 

[silentsnake09]

I am god awful at this game atm... but I'll get better... I spent my first day running around not realizing my "assault" soldier was actually a healer . I was wondering why that "Q" thing kept popping up. I spent my time running around the zones cover to cover dazed and confused until I realized the amber lifebars were the folks I was supposed to shoot.

Yeah, I'm terrible, but at least I can face it.

That said, game is a ton of fun and looks amazing. Playing the campaign mode on the hardest setting is no joke either.

you will get better. I still haven't even touched campaign and I have had the game since day one.

 

[castun]

And btw, isn't Air Radar and Below Radar supposed to be perma-unlocks? Like they don't have to be selected to function, once you get them you have them. I thought I remember reading that is how it is supposed to be, but it doesn't function 100% correctly (bugged).

Air radar needs to be equipped in a slot. I don't particularly like it though, I'd rather just have the larger minimap in the bottom corner and be able to see spotted ground vehicles and jets. Air radar was nerfed from what I understand, because you're supposed to be able to see incoming missiles too, but I don't think it does anymore. It's also annoying that you can't enlarge it like you can with the minimap.

 

[Dethred]

Because in BF2 everyone always worked together.

Whats interesting is how you don't read the posts in this thread. BF2 had its share of lonewolves, but at least it provided the tools for those that wanted to use teamwork. BF3 has literally no teamwork tools or emphasis. I played with the exact same group of guys in BF2 7 years ago, as I did in BF3. In BF3 we never were able to coordinate and strategize. By contrast, in BF2 we'd stay in groups of 6 players and some of us would never die in a round due to medic revives and a constant supply of ammo. So yes its DICE's fault.

Its like they said "no one complained about these features from BF2, so lets take them out and dumb it down even more".

 

[Dethred]

My point being that in BF2 no one gave a shit about each other. Having a commander or 6 man squads helped, but not enough to matter. I don't think either should be gone but that's not why people don't work together, it's because they are all dicks.

Having played BF2 and Bf2142 literally up until the evening of the BF3 release, I can guarantee that you have no idea what you're talking about. It was probably a 10:1 ratio between times I played in organized random squads with real teamplayers in BF2 vs when the squad just did whatever the fuck they wanted.

Hell, if you wanted teamwork, you could just look in the squad list and more often than not, there would be a squad titled "teamwork" to join. Now on this shitty console port you can't even name squads, much less coordinate with them. Squad leader (who isn't even the sole spawn point anymore) give you an order? Yeah, that order is a barely visible hash mark over the intended flag VS a direct line on the minimap in BF2 and the ability to use VOIP to direct squad members.

 

[saedrin]

Squad leader is sole spawn point in hardcore.

No 3d spotting either.

Why are you playing in nublet mode, anyways?

 

[Crotan]

Having played BF2 and Bf2142 literally up until the evening of the BF3 release, I can guarantee that you have no idea what you're talking about. It was probably a 10:1 ratio between times I played in organized random squads with real teamplayers in BF2 vs when the squad just did whatever the fuck they wanted.

Hell, if you wanted teamwork, you could just look in the squad list and more often than not, there would be a squad titled "teamwork" to join. Now on this shitty console port you can't even name squads, much less coordinate with them. Squad leader (who isn't even the sole spawn point anymore) give you an order? Yeah, that order is a barely visible hash mark over the intended flag VS a direct line on the minimap in BF2 and the ability to use VOIP to direct squad members.

Those were the days. I find myself more and more using party voip, but without the ability to actively communicate to non clan people who are in your squad. Communication just breaks down, and with it squadplay. Every tool we had in BF2 and BF2142 to enhance teamwork was watered down or removed.

But hey at least we get horns back on buggies in this latest patch

 

[l00segravel]

Need to lighten the mood in here a bit...

 

[Porter_]

 

[Skizzy]

Finally hit Colonel! Just over 48 hours achieved with only a couple rounds of those 24/7 Conquest Metro maps just to see what the big deal was. Wasn't into it.

Clearly you haven't read a lot of this thread (I don't blame you though, it's like 330 pages). But suffice to say, yes, a good number of people have legitimate complaints with the game. For me personally, it's:

-Balance issues (which keep fluctuating wildly and seem to get overall worse with each patch)
-Half the time on certain maps at the start the game will just crash for no apparent reason
-Minimap and commo rose are useless, as others have said
-No in-game VoIP option, which for a primary teamplay-based game just seems unacceptable to me

Don't get me wrong, I played enough to get to Rank 23 or so and played a lot of the beta, but besides some random co-op to help out a friend get some unlocks, I haven't really even touched the game in months.

Can you elaborate on the balance issues? If it's vehicle-related maybe that's why I haven't experienced it. When I play, it seems like I get killed by all sorts of weapons. The thing is, why wouldn't you just keep working towards unlocking certain weapons that are powerful and then use them? The fact everyone has access to all the same weapons (unless you don't have B2K) seems pretty balanced to me. Again, if you're talking about vehicles, then okay. I have no reason not to believe you on that.

The maps not loading is pretty annoying and is an issue I forgot I had. You're talking about when it says "Loading" on the very bottom right corner instead of having that blinking square? And then it just sits there forever. At least it's pretty easy to fix, just by reloading the game again. It doesn't happen in the middle of the game, so it's not the biggest deal.

I use minimap a fuckton. Maybe that's because I used to be a CS player and am used to looking at the radar? I don't see how the minimap is broken, I can see if teammates are watching my back when I'm sniping or when spotted enemies try to flank me.

No comment on the lack of VOIP as I really only play TDM and we all know about the teamwork that goes on in those.

 

[Blue_Scholar]

I'm just fucking tired of being behind cover for a second or two and then dying. Ping is 40 and I get punished for it. Fuck that

I hear ya man.

 

[NickN]

Having played BF2 and Bf2142 literally up until the evening of the BF3 release, I can guarantee that you have no idea what you're talking about. It was probably a 10:1 ratio between times I played in organized random squads with real teamplayers in BF2 vs when the squad just did whatever the fuck they wanted.

Hell, if you wanted teamwork, you could just look in the squad list and more often than not, there would be a squad titled "teamwork" to join. Now on this shitty console port you can't even name squads, much less coordinate with them. Squad leader (who isn't even the sole spawn point anymore) give you an order? Yeah, that order is a barely visible hash mark over the intended flag VS a direct line on the minimap in BF2 and the ability to use VOIP to direct squad members.

This is correct. One of the things I used to love about BF2 was that you could get online with a bunch of random strangers and work together towards defeating the enemy. Nowadays, in BF3, it's just a large-scale lone-wolf fest.

I have 3 buddies that I regularly play BF3 with. When we all get together on a server and play as a squad, we pretty much always win. And we're not THAT good, granted we're all Battlefield veterans, but we're not CAL status or anything. So what this tells me is that we're the ONLY ONES actually taking the initiative to cap control points, ambush enemy attackers, disrupt enemy vehicles, etc...

 

[NickN]

No comment on the lack of VOIP as I really only play TDM and we all know about the teamwork that goes on in those.

Wait.... what? Why do you even play Battlefield if you're just gonna play deathmatch?? Is it really that good?

 

[FearTheCow]

Whats interesting is how you don't read the posts in this thread. BF2 had its share of lonewolves, but at least it provided the tools for those that wanted to use teamwork. BF3 has literally no teamwork tools or emphasis. I played with the exact same group of guys in BF2 7 years ago, as I did in BF3. In BF3 we never were able to coordinate and strategize. By contrast, in BF2 we'd stay in groups of 6 players and some of us would never die in a round due to medic revives and a constant supply of ammo. So yes its DICE's fault.

Its like they said "no one complained about these features from BF2, so lets take them out and dumb it down even more".

You can join squads, and you have the ability to voice chat, if I am not mistaken, those seem like tools to help people work as a team...

Having played BF2 and Bf2142 literally up until the evening of the BF3 release, I can guarantee that you have no idea what you're talking about. It was probably a 10:1 ratio between times I played in organized random squads with real teamplayers in BF2 vs when the squad just did whatever the fuck they wanted.

Hell, if you wanted teamwork, you could just look in the squad list and more often than not, there would be a squad titled "teamwork" to join. Now on this shitty console port you can't even name squads, much less coordinate with them. Squad leader (who isn't even the sole spawn point anymore) give you an order? Yeah, that order is a barely visible hash mark over the intended flag VS a direct line on the minimap in BF2 and the ability to use VOIP to direct squad members.

Go play BF2 and BF2142 then, if BF3 really is as shitty as you say, then all the BF2 and BF2142 players must of run back to the "better" BF games by now right?

 

[Skizzy]

Wait.... what? Why do you even play Battlefield if you're just gonna play deathmatch?? Is it really that good?

Yeah, it's a blast. I could understand why some people wouldn't enjoy it though. I like it more than Conquest because I feel it's more fast-paced and twitchy.

 

[MisterClean]

Yeah, it's a blast. I could understand why some people wouldn't enjoy it though. I like it more than Conquest because I feel it's more fast-paced and twitchy.

I recently tried squad deathwatch with 3 other friends and it was amazingly fun. Reminded me of when l4d was good. Its a nice break from large scale conquest where even if tour squad is rocking faces, the rest of the team will get you killed/lose the match.

 

[fochkoph]

Having played BF2 and Bf2142 literally up until the evening of the BF3 release, I can guarantee that you have no idea what you're talking about. It was probably a 10:1 ratio between times I played in organized random squads with real teamplayers in BF2 vs when the squad just did whatever the fuck they wanted.

Hell, if you wanted teamwork, you could just look in the squad list and more often than not, there would be a squad titled "teamwork" to join. Now on this shitty console port you can't even name squads, much less coordinate with them. Squad leader (who isn't even the sole spawn point anymore) give you an order? Yeah, that order is a barely visible hash mark over the intended flag VS a direct line on the minimap in BF2 and the ability to use VOIP to direct squad members.

You also have to realize that if you're basing your experience solely on the closing days leading up to the release of Battlefield 3, the only people most likely playing are the hardcore dedicated players. The experienced players who understand the fundamentals of the game. I played 2142 and loved it to death but eventually stopped a few years ago. I distinctly remember the game having equal amounts of excellent players and complete mouth breathers. While I agree with you that "back-in-the-day" it felt like there was a lot more camaraderie and organization between the players, I wouldn't go as far as to say it's nonexistent in BF3. There's also one other thing to consider, rose-tinted glasses. Never let nostalgia cloud your judgement; BF3 is still an excellent game.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

You also have to think, it's not really the problem of the game as much as it is the problem of the times. BF2 came out years ago, people had different mentalities of how to play games. Then basically COD4 rolled around and honestly, it changed a lot of peoples mind on how to play. Also, it's the idea that companies think they should give a game a familiar feel to a game, even if they are new to it.

Also, I think the general public is getting dumber every day.