Ballmer Says Windows 7 Nearly Final

The only problem I have with Vista is UAC and how it would bug me about EVERYTHING. I get the idea, and I love it, but it just got in the way very often. Like when I would go to open up Diskeeper or anything else in the control panel. Bug me when changes are being made, not windows being opened.
 
Exavior said:
Dude its a beta, if you don't know what a beta is then you shouldn't download the program.
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Thanks for the clarification. I always forget what the term beta means. :rolleyes:
Exavior said:
It isn't like they are telling people on tv to download this and replace your current xp/vista install. It is meant for people that want to help microsoft test the OS.
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I'm well aware of that. Seriously though, do you think that only those who are really serious about helping Microsoft will try to get their hands on the beta?
Exavior said:
I doubt average joe would be enough know there is a beta out there, nor would they go get it, burn the ISO to a dvd, and then know how to install it.
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How very narrow minded of you. We seem to have different opinions of the average joe. I don't consider average joe to be a complete idiot.

Now I'm only saying that Microsoft needs to release this beta with as few major issues as possible. Why is that a problem? Having your music files truncated when Media player updates file information is not a small issue. Releasing a public build that can corrupt data out of the box isn't exactly a good thing to do when you are trying to change the public's perception of your product. The fewer negative things that people can focus on, the better. It's bad enough MS will probably take a beating over the task bar (I like it, but some don't get it). I think that should be the only major gripe for a good majority of people. My $.02.
 
XamediX said:
You misspelled/typed it's, I am going to kill you. Hehe, sorry I had to. And I am somewhat a grammar natzi.
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AAARGH!!! I plead guilty as charge, but call upon the mercy of the court due to mitigating circumstances.
 
tesfaye said:
Now I'm only saying that Microsoft needs to release this beta with as few major issues as possible. Why is that a problem? Having your music files truncated when Media player updates file information is not a small issue. Releasing a public build that can corrupt data out of the box isn't exactly a good thing to do when you are trying to change the public's perception of your product. The fewer negative things that people can focus on, the better. It's bad enough MS will probably take a beating over the task bar (I like it, but some don't get it). I think that should be the only major gripe for a good majority of people. My $.02.
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HEHE... each company rejects any responsibility for any screw-ups in their EULA. So if any damage occurs to your files, hardware, and mother-in-law - hey maybe this one wouldn't be so bad :D - you can blame yourself. IF they stipulate such in the EULA for a "finished" product, you can imagine how much they would distance themselves for issues that might arise for using their beta software. Technically, if anything happens, you asked for it. That's beta for you. (Yes - for the sake of keeping the peace - I know you know what it means.)
You should also note that you should never toy around with beta software on your main system, unless you're a backup freak. And if you aren't... well in that case I hope you enjoyed it while it lasted!:D
 
aShrubbery! said:
HEHE... each company rejects any responsibility for any screw-ups in their EULA. So if any damage occurs to your files, hardware, and mother-in-law - hey maybe this one wouldn't be so bad :D - you can blame yourself. IF they stipulate such in the EULA for a "finished" product, you can imagine how much they would distance themselves for issues that might arise for using their beta software. Technically, if anything happens, you asked for it. That's beta for you. (Yes - for the sake of keeping the peace - I know you know what it means.)
You should also note that you should never toy around with beta software on your main system, unless you're a backup freak. And if you aren't... well in that case I hope you enjoyed it while it lasted!:D
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Yeah, I'm looking at this from an image standpoint. You know how the small negatives can outweigh the large positives when it comes to Microsoft products. :) Microsoft needs to succeed here. They can't have the public forming a negative opinion about Windows 7 before it ships and thinking that MS has failed twice in a row.

Backups, glad you mentioned it. They added a backup feature on the Autoplay menu. I want to see how that works with the backup app which I haven't tried yet in Windows 7. I have a stack of recently purchased drives that I don't use except for crude file copy backups of my photos, documents and music. I keep two backups of my music collection and photos. I'll play with this later when I get back from the gym.
 
tesfaye said:
We seem to have different opinions of the average joe. I don't consider average joe to be a complete idiot.
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Compared to us on a computer technology level? Yes, yes, and yes. I work in IT and we have training on how to keep our mouths shut when some asinine situation happens do to their idiocy. But I see that as a major problem nowadays, especially on this site. Everyone loves to throw in the average joe comment, but what exactly is the average joe? There is no concrete or even semi-concrete definition, so when people say, "average joe" every single person has their own idea what it means and every starts to reply to the statement with diff ideas thinking they're the same.

[H] Should do an editorial about the average joe and computers. Oh yea my link sucks, H got a much better on on the frontpage, but I'm sure most people knew already. And, what is it with people fubar'ing quotes today?

Shrubbery, I got my eye on you. Mess up. I dare you, mess up my precious English language one more time. I swear I will... tell on you. :D
 
Hey I just downloaded Windows 7 and I want the classic start menu back. I want the classic icons back. I also want my control panel to look like it did in Windows 98. I know its a lot but I really don't like the way it is in the new OS. Can I install IE7 instead along with the XP style explorer windows? Lastly, is there any possible way to have DX9 as the default instead of DX10 or 11? /parody


:) :) :) I kid, I kid...
 
XamediX said:
Hey I just downloaded Windows 7 and I want the classic start menu back. I want the classic icons back. I also want my control panel to look like it did in Windows 98. I know its a lot but I really don't like the way it is in the new OS. Can I install IE7 instead along with the XP style explorer windows? Lastly, is there any possible way to have DX9 as the default instead of DX10 or 11? /parody


:) :) :) I kid, I kid...
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Call me curmudgeonly, but I honestly thought you were serious until the line about DX9! I haven't tried the Windows 7 beta yet (I lack a spare machine), but Windows Classic is one of the first things I do after an XP install...
 
tesfaye said:
I don't see an obvious way to enable it on my Win7 test box. Hmm, I wonder how long the classic start menu will go missing?
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It's gone for good - though I'm willing to bet that it won't be long before someone releases a third-party classic theme.
 
So why so much hate on the new taskbar? I've seen a lot of people don't like it but I haven't come across someone saying why yet.
 
XamediX said:
Compared to us on a computer technology level? Yes, yes, and yes. I work in IT and we have training on how to keep our mouths shut when some asinine situation happens do to their idiocy. But I see that as a major problem nowadays, especially on this site. Everyone loves to throw in the average joe comment, but what exactly is the average joe? There is no concrete or even semi-concrete definition, so when people say, "average joe" every single person has their own idea what it means and every starts to reply to the statement with diff ideas thinking they're the same.

[H] Should do an editorial about the average joe and computers. Oh yea my link sucks, H got a much better on on the frontpage, but I'm sure most people knew already.
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I know what you're saying. We didn't get any training where I work. They just threaten us with walking papers. Works pretty well actually. :D

But yeah, I've had to deal with some really simple minded but supposedly "educated" people and it's an art to not crack up in front of them or make some really bad comments about it. I try not to drag down the "average joes" because of them.
 
I have been searching all over for the X64 dowload link.

Can someone point me in the proper direction?

Thanks!
 
XamediX said:
Hey I just downloaded Windows 7 and I want the classic start menu back. I want the classic icons back. I also want my control panel to look like it did in Windows 98. I know its a lot but I really don't like the way it is in the new OS. Can I install IE7 instead along with the XP style explorer windows? Lastly, is there any possible way to have DX9 as the default instead of DX10 or 11? /parody


:) :) :) I kid, I kid...
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I know you're joking but I like xp windows explorer -- address bar, status bar, tiny tool bar, then tons of folders on one side and files and folders on the other. It looks like some kind of spread sheet which is nice since I can see everything.

I like the xp start menu too. I tried changing vista's to look like it, but failed... sigh..
 
XamediX said:
Hey I just downloaded Windows 7 and I want the classic start menu back. I want the classic icons back. I also want my control panel to look like it did in Windows 98. I know its a lot but I really don't like the way it is in the new OS. Can I install IE7 instead along with the XP style explorer windows? Lastly, is there any possible way to have DX9 as the default instead of DX10 or 11? /parody


:) :) :) I kid, I kid...
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Haha, I do remember a CNET thing on that.. "Make Vista look like XP"

Man, what a fail.
 
With apps like Windowblinds and StyleXP Windows XP can look pretty neat. If you find the right theme, that is.
Vista is not just a new OS, it's also a new GUI, with neat effects. Would you want Vista without the eye candy?

I'd like to know; who uses any custom themes with Vista? And who keeps stock themes?
 
aShrubbery! said:
With apps like Windowblinds and StyleXP Windows XP can look pretty neat. If you find the right theme, that is.
Vista is not just a new OS, it's also a new GUI, with neat effects. Would you want Vista without the eye candy?

I'd like to know; who uses any custom themes with Vista? And who keeps stock themes?
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Funny you ask that considering all day long I've been posting about Windows 7 being a "new OS" for the most part and there's a constant stream of questions from people here and at other forums asking "How do I change <insert setting here> so I can make Windows 7 look/sound/act/feel/work more like Vista..." or even XP itself.

People simply can't stand change, and the bad thing is that it took 2 years to get Vista to a decent point where people were "happy" or at least able to use Vista's new way of doing things, and here we are with Windows 7 almost on us and it's starting all over again. There's a thread in the OS forum right now about someone almost begging to get the "Classic Start Menu" back and I swear, it's just silly... if they want the old stuff they should run the old stuff, simple.

No one is forcing anyone to run Windows 7, or Vista, or even XP, so whenever I see people whining about the fact that they can't make the OS look or act or work like some other OS it's a bit stupid, honestly.
 
or maybe people wanting something as simple to include as a classic start menu option isn't stupid? seriously... there are many people who prefer the simplicity and familiarity of the old menu (along with many other UI elements...), but at the same time would still like all of the other new features that come along with a new operating system... its really not a big deal, and definitely no reason for you to crap your pants over...

having the option there wouldnt be a big deal.... (and, im actually pretty sure MS will include much greater UI flexibility in the final shipping version of 7.... including ways to make certain UI elements, like the start menu, work like they did in previous windows versions...)

i agree that people need to be open to change.... but just because people dont agree 100% with the way you think, doesnt mean they are wrong or stupid.... get over yourself....
 
Joe Average said:
... if they want the old stuff they should run the old stuff, simple.

No one is forcing anyone to run Windows 7, or Vista, or even XP, so whenever I see people whining about the fact that they can't make the OS look or act or work like some other OS it's a bit stupid, honestly.
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Some people don't just stare at the screen all day in amazement how neat the eye candy is. People want improvements and new features. And eye candy, for the most part, is just that; eye candy.
People want a new and improved, faster, more efficient OS but don't want necessarily to "waste" time learning or wrestle with a new way to do things.

And it's not quite true that people don't like change. They do. That's why they spend hours looking for that perfect theme to spiff up their desktop! :D
 
aShrubbery! said:
And it's not quite true that people don't like change. They do. That's why they spend hours looking for that perfect theme to spiff up their desktop! :D
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Ok, I'll grant you that. Even *I* changed the wallpaper and window color on Windows 7!!! OH THE HORROR!!! :)

Got sick of seeing that damned fish so much in screenshots... it's amazing how many people just don't think "Hey, I can change that..." ain't it? :p
 
Joe Average said:
Funny you ask that considering all day long I've been posting about Windows 7 being a "new OS" for the most part and there's a constant stream of questions from people here and at other forums asking "How do I change <insert setting here> so I can make Windows 7 look/sound/act/feel/work more like Vista..." or even XP itself.

People simply can't stand change, and the bad thing is that it took 2 years to get Vista to a decent point where people were "happy" or at least able to use Vista's new way of doing things, and here we are with Windows 7 almost on us and it's starting all over again. There's a thread in the OS forum right now about someone almost begging to get the "Classic Start Menu" back and I swear, it's just silly... if they want the old stuff they should run the old stuff, simple.

No one is forcing anyone to run Windows 7, or Vista, or even XP, so whenever I see people whining about the fact that they can't make the OS look or act or work like some other OS it's a bit stupid, honestly.
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I dont't think forcing people to totally change is a good thing. If you want people to use your new OS, I'd say you should try to keep it as familiar as possibly and slowly introduce the new, better stuff to them. You're not going to get a good reaction when there's a sudden jerk in any direction.

Also, people have preferences. I went from win 3.11 to 95. That was a good change in start menu. 95 - 98/98SE not much change there. 98SE - xp, I like xp's better. xp - vista, i like xp better. I tried changing to classic view, but it's more like 98SE start menu which I hate.

I don't like windows explorer on vista either. I prefer xp and 98 better. I still hate the fact that explorer defaults to my documents instead of my computer (on both xp and vista)where I can see all the drives.

Honestly, I don't want win7 to be exactly like xp, but xp has some good stuff, so why change it unless it's absolutely better.
 
qkool said:
Honestly, I don't want win7 to be exactly like xp, but xp has some good stuff, so why change it unless it's absolutely better.
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exactly..... there really are many UI changes that MS made with Vista and now with 7 that people think are worse than what was there before, or simply different for the sake of being different (like burying important options, or renaming long standing system utilities)....

sure, these things are debatable, but for *simple* things like the classic start menu, which are easy to leave in and dead easy to code around, it does get frustrating when what you *prefer* goes away....
 
Joe Average said:
Ok, I'll grant you that. Even *I* changed the wallpaper and window color on Windows 7!!! OH THE HORROR!!! :)

Got sick of seeing that damned fish so much in screenshots... it's amazing how many people just don't think "Hey, I can change that..." ain't it? :p
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LOL
"OH! That nice scrollbar! Oh those nice taskbars! Ooooh"

"You got that rig to look at p0rn or look at a desktop theme??"

Eye candy distracts from the topic at hand. :D
 
qkool said:
I dont't think forcing people to totally change is a good thing. If you want people to use your new OS, I'd say you should try to keep it as familiar as possibly and slowly introduce the new, better stuff to them. You're not going to get a good reaction when there's a sudden jerk in any direction.

Also, people have preferences. I went from win 3.11 to 95. That was a good change in start menu. 95 - 98/98SE not much change there. 98SE - xp, I like xp's better. xp - vista, i like xp better. I tried changing to classic view, but it's more like 98SE start menu which I hate.

I don't like windows explorer on vista either. I prefer xp and 98 better. I still hate the fact that explorer defaults to my documents instead of my computer (on both xp and vista)where I can see all the drives.

Honestly, I don't want win7 to be exactly like xp, but xp has some good stuff, so why change it unless it's absolutely better.
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They're not forcing anyone to do anything, as I've said. Nobody must go get Windows 7, no one is cramming it down their Internet connections at this moment, there's no "Microsoft Men In Black" trying to convert folks (don't get me started on The Mojave Experiment either), it's there if people are interested.

Do you really think Microsoft would do a public beta of Windows 7 just because they want more bug reports from more people? Hell no, this is a purely marketing move. 98% of the people that are grabbing Windows 7 today will never ever ever submit a bug report if they find something wrong or a glitch someplace. They simply won't do it, even though Windows 7 is different from all previous versions of Windows betas in one aspect:

There's a "Send Feedback" link on every damned window, right there, to send off a report of something out of the ordinary and a possible bug, and people still won't do it. Instead, they'll sign onto forums like this one and make complaints left and right consistently - all the while using an OS that Microsoft graciously offered up so they'd hopefully get something back for it aside from snide remarks and being bashed.

About the Explorer thing opening on My Documents: you can change that, of course, but as most people - read that as what it says: most people prefer to have all their "stuff" in one place: My Documents. That's the whole point of that concept for a folder and always has been. Instead of stuff being all over the damned place, and since Microsoft has always (at least since Win95 came out) treated everything as a "document" regardless of what it is, then a single point for storage and organization makes the best possible sense.

But it's entirely possible to alter the target of Explorer to any folder you want, a simple Google search will turn up the method, it's easy.

The reason things change is because change is good, period. People might not like it, but that's the way things are. Change is a very good thing...

I might make $80 an hour servicing PCs and $125 an hour as an instructor, but I tell ya, the frustration of working on some guy's Pentium 133 machine with 16MB of RAM running Windows 95 manufactured in 1996 trying to run a DOS game he bought for $28 back in 1991... no amount of money can adequately cover the cost of dealing with the hassles of tolerating such people without taking their 14" VGA monitors and crushing their skulls with 'em. :D

Times change, people change, operating systems change, it's how things work. I've been using XP Pro x64 since before day 1 as alphas, then betas, then release candidates, and every other OS Microsoft has ever released (hell, I even have Singularity in a VM right now, go figure), and Windows 7 is the first OS I've had any excitement about since XP Pro x64 was even hinted at. Before that it was Windows 95 because I had the full installation version of Windows 95 (38 floppies!!!) 2 full months before it was released in August of 1995. I had it installed on several work machines and man what a crowd it drew on a regular basis.

It's all about change, about learning new things, about saying "What the fuck..."

If you can't say it, you can't do it. ;)
 
Joe Average said:
They're not forcing anyone to do anything, as I've said. Nobody must go get Windows 7, no one is cramming it down their Internet connections at this moment, there's no "Microsoft Men In Black" trying to convert folks (don't get me started on The Mojave Experiment either), it's there if people are interested.

*snip*

If you can't say it, you can't do it. ;)
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You do have a valid point that change is good, but my point is that you should ease them into it. I'm not disagreeing that there shouldn't be change -- read the last sentence, but even radical changes to software gui can sometimes be daunting to some of us more technical people. When people are confused and fustrated, they're simply more susceptiple to other negative comments. This adds fuel to the fire.

Yes, I know I can google how to fix my explorer problem by googling, but non technical people, even with google, simply won't be able to do it. They can't comprehend the instructions because they're too old or too young or whatever. Or maybe they're too afraid to touch it because they think they'll break their thousand dollar computer.

Side note: Even the task bar in xp isn't perfect for me. I have to uncheck the group similar task bar buttons. Grouping shit drives me mad because instead of just looking at my task bar and seeing everything, I have to click on every damn button.

About the forcing people. No, they're not forced, but when they go buy their new laptop, I'm willing to bet it's going to have windows7 on it. If it was up to the buyer to format and install another OS, I'm willing to bet that most of them would just stick with windows7. So no, they're not being forced, but they are incapable of changing OS's because of their technical knowledge. For us, it's not a problem. They'll probably ask us to put an older version of windows. That's fine. Just give me the drivers.
 
Joe Average said:
They're not forcing anyone to do anything, as I've said. Nobody must go get Windows 7, no one is cramming it down their Internet connections at this moment, there's no "Microsoft Men In Black" trying to convert folks (don't get me started on The Mojave Experiment either), it's there if people are interested.
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That's not true. I've read articles that have said that while DirectX 11 is likely to be for both Vista and Windows7, Microsoft hasn't made up their minds on that yet and we may find that in order to run DirectX 11 games, then you must upgrade to Windows7.
 
qkool said:
You do have a valid point that change is good, but my point is that you should ease them into it.
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"I revert to my previous statement, Senator..."

Meaning my comment that Microsoft doesn't do these public betas just for beta testing and getting bug reports - they do it so the OS gets out there, in the public's hands, so people can get their hands on it and do testing, get the feel of it, "kick the tires" one could say, and get eased into it as you do.

And as for the DirectX thing, no one is forcing people to run 'em. They'll most likely work just fine with whatever...

Progress happens, folks, I wish I could understand why some people just can't stand it. A company like Microsoft can't keep cranking out backwards-compatible code forever...
 
svet-am said:
That's not true. I've read articles that have said that while DirectX 11 is likely to be for both Vista and Windows7, Microsoft hasn't made up their minds on that yet and we may find that in order to run DirectX 11 games, then you must upgrade to Windows7.
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Are there any major games out that don't have backwards support for DirectX9? Vista and DX10 compatible hardware have been out for how long?

Even if Microsoft doesn't release DX11 for Vista (which I'm positive they will) it's not going to be the end of the world by any means...
 
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