Avoiding the Intel 1st gen SSDs?

Lateralus

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
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So school me here...

I realize that with the G2s out now, they are the superior choice with slightly improved speeds and TRIM support. Obviously it is those two factors (increased random write IOPS and TRIM support) that prompt people to recommend the G2 drives. However, it is my understanding that TRIM wasn't really needed on the G1 because Intel's 8820 firmware did such an admirable job of keeping fragmentation to a minimum that TRIM wasn't really necessary anyway.

If that is indeed true, then is there a reason that someone shouldn't be inclined to pick up a G1 for a good price? It goes without saying that if one were able to purchase a G1 or G2 and prices were equal, the G2 is probably the superior choice...but if a G1 could be had for considerably less, is the lack of TRIM support really something to fret over? Or will the G1 do such a good job of keeping itself in top shape that it's a non-issue?

Just asking because I foresee plenty of G1s being resold in order to finance new SSD purchases and it just doesn't seem logical that one would avoid those drives when they've been functioning perfectly fine for this long with minimal performance degradation as it is...I mean is TRIM support on the G2s really going to make *that* much of a difference? Is a G1 to be considered obsolete and/or inferior simply because it lacks a feature that wasn't as crucial as it was (is) to drives featuring other controllers?
 
faik the only difference with the new firmware is that 34nm brought prices down all other specs are the same
 
A couple comments:

First, TRIM isn't worth much of anything without Windows 7, or, presumably, future(?) versions of Linux, BSD, etc. If you're planning on holding off on Win7 for a while (personally I prefer to wait until SP1 comes out to adopt a new version of Windows on a machine I use for work), saving a few bucks may make sense. SSDs are evolving rapidly, and in a year or two anything you get now may be basically obsolete compared to the latest and greatest.

Second, it's write performance that degrades the most from writing. Reading an SSD does nothing to its performance. Even running Win7, there won't be a substantial difference between a first gen and second gen drive if the drive is used in a mostly read-only capacity. In other words, a gen 1 would make a nice apps/games drive in a Win7 system using a gen 2 for a system drive. Also, used as a secondary drive and assuming your mainboard isn't a huge pain in the ass like my machines are (laptop bios locks out security commands & my desktop is a dual proc system), you can just back up your apps/games to a storage drive once in a while and run a secure erase on the gen 1 SSD. That erases the entire drive, and restores it to like new performance.

Summary:
I'd get the Gen 2 if you're planning on adopting Win7 soonish (maybe the next 6 months - 1 year) unless there's a really big price difference. If Gen 1 is sufficiently cheaper it might be worthwhile if you're going to wait a while or will repurpose it as an apps/games drive.
 
I wouldn't avoid it, but the G2s are coming out for the same price in less than a week. There's not a huge difference between them, as the G1s have auto-defrag in their firmware, but it's probably worth waiting the week.
 
If you can get a G1 cheaper than a G2 I'd say go for it. Life's too short to wait :)
 
I got an Intel 160GB gen1 open box from newegg for $307 (about $130 discount) for my XP laptop. Zandor's post summed up everything else I would have said nicely.
 
I got a Gen1 last week because I couldn't wait on a system build. I'll be getting a Gen2 drive when they are back in stock for my boss's laptop. (As an experiment I imaged it and she was so impressed with it we're getting it instead of a whole new laptop). After my one week experience with them I'd say get whatever you can afford to get into the SSD game.

Edit: old laptop drive is a 7200rpm Seagate Momentus, 2gb, XP Pro, Dell Inspiron 6400 (about 28 months old)

........................................HDD......SSD
boot time to login screen....1:02......0:26
full boot to desktop*.......... 2:06......0:55

* from power on, login, and then sync with MyDocs on our server
 
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Thanks guys. I figured as much. It's just that I saw quite a few people telling others to steer clear of the G1s because of the TRIM issue, and in the back of my mind I kept thinking "But...most people have been extremely impressed with the original X25-M. Why NOT buy one just because an improved product is out, especially if you can get one for a great price?"

Homer, I actually bought a 60GB Vertex this week. Haven't installed it yet but it's gonna be my OS drive once I'm able to download Win7 Pro through the MSDNAA/ACM deal.

However, I would also like to acquire an Intel/Kingston drive to compare to the Vertex and also to start my move away from platter-based drives. I know it will be a while before prices come down enough to where I can afford to make the transition completely (I'm running 5 HDDs in my primary system with another half dozen sitting around housing files), but I look forward to that day nonetheless!

zandor, I appreciate your reply and you made some good points. I am currently using Win7 x64 RC and my experiences with the pre-release version have been so positive compared to my trials with Vista that I have no reservations transitioning to the final build as my primary OS. It sounds like the first gen X25-M would be a fantastic drive for an XP user who isn't able to use TRIM and doesn't want to be bothered running a wipe utility every so often, though.

I am aware that read operations do not affect the performance of a drive, and as such I would have no problem picking up a first gen drive and using it for read intensive apps. Too pricey to use for something like a media drive at this point, but I have a plethora of apps that I'm sure would benefit from being placed on the SSD.

So yeah, I do plan on continuing to use Windows 7 but now that I have picked up a Vertex, the lack of TRIM support on the X25-M G1 doesn't concern me as much. If I find a good deal on a first gen drive I would have no problem picking it up as a secondary SSD...but it sounds like if I run out of room on the Vertex and need a bigger OS drive, the G2 is the better choice.

Thank you all for helping clear this up. In reality I'm sure ANY of these will be an improvement over a mechanical drive whether they are used as a boot drive or an MP3 repository, heh. I just wanted to determine the best usage scenario for each drive and you've definitely helped me accomplish that goal.
 
You'll love your 60GB Vertex. Great SSDs. Good support, great performance.
 
What Brahmzy said. I own a 60GB Agility (10% slower than vertex) and it flies. Also OCZ firmware updates come often especially if you have a Vertex.
 
Yamaki said:
What Brahmzy said. I own a 60GB Agility (10% slower than vertex) and it flies. Also OCZ firmware updates come often especially if you have a Vertex.
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Do you still lose your data everytime you flash a Vertex?
 
Don't buy the G1. If you do so, you are only rewarding Intel's bad behavior, of not releasing new firmware for the old drives.
 
PHiZ said:
Don't buy the G1. If you do so, you are only rewarding Intel's bad behavior, of not releasing new firmware for the old drives.
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*If* I bought a G1, it wouldn't be a new one, so Intel would not be getting rewarded any more than they had been before. :)

You have to admit that they did an amazing job on the 8820 firmware. But I just cannot understand why they do not plan to release TRIM-capable firmware for the first gen drives. The only reason I can think of is greed, so first gen owners will be tempted to go out and buy another, newer product (hmm, sounds a lot like Apple). The fact that they've remained stagnant on the older drives seems to be disgruntling a lot of 1st gen owners though, and makes me wonder if those guys will be looking to another company for their next SSD purchase because of it.
 
makes me wonder if those guys will be looking to another company for their next SSD purchase because of it.
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Not I.

I was never promised an update and I'm not whiney.

I bought this drive because it was the best at the time and my next drive will meet same qualifications.

These whiners are acting like self centered, entitled, little kids that need to get a life....kinda like the same guys that are complaining about the lack of G2s.

If I were running the company, anybody who whined wouldn't be able to buy another Intel SSD. :D

Can you imagine the whining then? :D
 
Old Hippie said:
These whiners are acting like self centered, entitled, little kids that need to get a life....kinda like the same guys that are complaining about the lack of G2s.
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Haha. The people complaining about Intel are serving the purpose of being consumer advocates. Calling out corporations, whose only purpose is to be profit-seeking concerns, is the only way to hold them accountable for abusing their customers.

Shit, Intel shipped a flawed product (G1), that only got fixed because the blogs held them accountable in public view.

Either don't be a simpleton, or spare us your ignorant diatribes.
 
Haha. The people complaining about Intel are serving the purpose of being consumer advocates
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Complaining about something they were never promised is called whining.
 
Old Hippie said:
Complaining about something they were never promised is called whining.
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Documenting how Intel is treating their early adopters, by not providing updates to their product lines, provides useful information regarding Intel's trustworthiness for product support. This is useful information for people to have when they are making future decision as to whether they want to purchase products from Intel.

Contrast this with OCZ's efforts to provide performance improvements through frequent firmware updates (although this comparison is slightly off because OCZ is supporting their current generation product.) This is useful information when making a product decision.

To assert otherwise would be too stupid for words. Although, perhaps I underestimate your ability to employ words to stupid ends.
 
Dude, you can document all you want.

Upgrades were never promised or mentioned with Intel's SSD G1 product.

I'm very glad you're looking out for the regular consumer and hope you and every other whiner never purchase another Intel product.

I can only but hope you are so vigilant with every other manfg that doesn't offer a free upgrade when an improved product emerges. I no longer buy from Gigabyte and Creative but I don't whine about it, I put my money where my mouth is and DO IT.

I'm also glad that you have the technical expertise to be confident that a G1 is compatable for a TRIM upgrade.

If you are a G1 owner please throw it in the trash or return it to Intel and never purchase another product from them.

I'm sure your lofty values will be appreciated by some but the basic premise here is the condition when purchased.

To assert otherwise would be too stupid for words. Although, perhaps I underestimate your ability to employ words to stupid ends.
 
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Old Hippie said:
I'm also glad that you have the technical expertise to be confident that a G1 is compatable for a TRIM upgrade.

If you are a G1 owner please throw it in the trash or return it to Intel and never purchase another product from them.

I'm sure your lofty values will be appreciated by some but the basic premise here is the condition when purchased.
Click to expand...

The TRIM command was well-documented in the SATA specification that targets SSDs. If the G1 product wasn't capable of TRIM compatibility, then a case could be made that Intel shipped a product with a design defect. But on a more basic level, they can be condemned for how they are treating their customers, even if only as compared to other vendors.
 
PHiZ, I don't want to be dragged into this argument but I was under the impression that TRIM wasn't really needed on the G1 drives. I mean, it's great that the G2 supports TRIM since the firmware changes that Intel made to increase performance also brought a minor increase in fragmentation. But, according to PC Perspective review of the G2:

There has been some buzz / rumors about the older X25's not receiving a TRIM-enabled firmware. With the 8820 firmware performing so consistently even after being heavily fragmented, there is not as much of a need for TRIM support. The G1 drives will only benefit slightly in cases where the drive had been completely written (i.e. full) in the past and was then dropped back to a relatively small amount of content. In that case, the difference seen would only be in random write IOPS. Keep in mind that a G1 X25-M in this worst case condition still dominates the competition in random write IOPS.
 
I'm sure he's aware of all the details but just wants to whine. :D

He's probably one of those that also abuse return policies.

Just let him whine here rather than unleash him on the unsuspecting public. ;)
 
For those who have the G1 I suggest looking into the 8820 intel firmware. It is worth it.
 
I wouldn't buy the G1 now unless you're getting it used or as an open-box discount, otherwise they seem to going for the same prices as the G2 should (when resellers aren't price gouging) or higher in most cases (since it was originally priced higher 'till the G2 launched).
 
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