Auzentech XMeridian is finally out!

[phide]

This is number four, for those keeping track. Number five will be the last.

No, those CMedia cards don't always send discrete signals to each side or rear speakers. Many times those sounds are Matrix-ed, Approximations and etc...

You have yet to back up this statement, after I have repeatedly asked you to.

On one hand, I'm getting tired of asking you to back up your nonsensical statements. On the other hand, your intent to dodge my question is most amusing.

 

[Mer0vingian]

As I said before your speaker doesn't have a digital receiver so Dolby Digital Live/DTS connect is useless. Dolby Prologic IIx/DTS Neo: PC will work but you don't exactly need them. Dolby Headphone technology is only good if you are using a headphone. Based on the specs, the X-Meridian should give a better sound quality through the analogue outputs than a similiar priced X-Fi(I don't have a X-Fi so I can't confirm this) but you will not get EAX higher than 2.0 with the X-Meridian. If I were in your place(I've bought a quite good quality set of speakers but without a digital decoder), maybe I'm gonna buy a X-Fi Elite Pro, if it is too expensive then I'll get a X-Meridian.

So what you are saying is that i wont have any surround capabilities with my speaker?
(the creative x-fi has the CMSS-3D so maybe i should go with one of the x-fi).

 

[Donnie27]

This is number four, for those keeping track. Number five will be the last.


You have yet to back up this statement, after I have repeatedly asked you to.

On one hand, I'm getting tired of asking you to back up your nonsensical statements. On the other hand, your intent to dodge my question is most amusing.

Please, what statement am I not backing up? What is the big statement made I supposely running from that overshadows all of the subjects brought up. This from someone who thinks EAX 5 is not much different than EAX-2. Yup, another one of those folks from the US Grant school of debate. "If you can't dazzle them with Footwork, then baffle them with Bullshit." That pretty much sums up what you've posted so far. Can you make sense out of that?

Now back up all of the crap you've brought up that I've debunked LOL! How many posts has it been, 10 and counting?

 

[alg7_munif]

You will get a surround sound with your speaker even if you are only using an onboard sound chip(integrated on your mobo) if you are playing a surround source(games, movies and etc) and you have connected your speaker will all the three analogue jacks(green, black and orange). What a X-Fi will do is adding effect to your surround sound with EAX feature to make it more realistic. The X-Meridian is however should give a better sound quality(detailed, clear, clean and etc.) if you compare the specs with a X-FI at a same price. CMSS-3D is an audio enhancement feature that simulate a surround sound source on a headphone, a 2.1 speaker set and a multi channel speaker set(I don't understand why you need to simulate a surround sound on a surround speaker).

 

[Mer0vingian]

because right know i'm not hearing my rear speakers and i finally want to enjoy my speakers.

what was the point of buying a surround system if i cand "feel" the surround

 

[phide]

Please, what statement am I not backing up? What is the big statement made I supposely running from that overshadows all of the subjects brought up. This from someone who thinks EAX 5 is not much different than EAX-2.

I said it was my opinion that EAX 5 is not radically more advanced than EAX 2. That's an opinion issue.

I quoted the statement you made. You said that when gaming, the C-Media chip is performing channel matrixing and/or phase alignment tricks to derive surround channel information. You provided no evidence of this after repeated requests. Can you prove that this is the case?

If there's something I haven't backed up, and something that you've supposedly "debunked" (if citing Creative marketing jibber-jabber could be thought of as "debunking"), bring it to my attention, and I'll address it.

 

[phide]

because right know i'm not hearing my rear speakers and i finally want to enjoy my speakers. what was the point of buying a surround system if i cand "feel" the surround

Unless you are using an application that is designed to output in surround, you will not experience any surround sound. Surround-capable games, DVDs in DTS and Dolby Digital, DVD-Audio and other 5.1 audio formats contain surround information. Audio CDs are stereo (two channels), and do not contain surround information. You will not hear any output from your surround or center speakers unless you use an upmixer.

 

[Donnie27]

You will get a surround sound with your speaker even if you are only using an onboard sound chip(integrated on your mobo) if you are playing a surround source(games, movies and etc) and you have connected your speaker will all the three analogue jacks(green, black and orange). What a X-Fi will do is adding effect to your surround sound with EAX feature to make it more realistic. The X-Meridian is however should give a better sound quality(detailed, clear, clean and etc.) if you compare the specs with a X-FI at a same price. CMSS-3D is an audio enhancement feature that simulate a surround sound source on a headphone, a 2.1 speaker set and a multi channel speaker set(I don't understand why you need to simulate a surround sound on a surround speaker).

And you still have dodged the question as to why Creative would be a better sound card in Oblivion.

How can I answer this question when I already admitted to never playing the game, Don't know what it sounds like on either card? So this one game out of how many, sounds better on X-Meridian. Know of any others? So we're supposed to loose truer more realistic surround because this one game may sound better on the $189 card then gets spanked with hundreds of other titles by a $92 card?

Example.

Prey's OpenAL support allows Sound Blaster X-Fi to perform the audio mixing and processing in hardware. This enables more audio effects and greater precision in audio positioning.

Now if I tested this after their making this statement and it didn't work as they said, I call them a lying sack of Cow Dung. If it works, I say it works. Well, it works and NO, X-Meridian doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of repeating those feats. Yes and most of these effects are not just for this one game.

Please do some reseach or read those links I gave a little better? CMSS 3D does the same thing Dolby Headphone and does it but better=P Again, Creative bought up or licensed the best of this tech.

Last but not least, what will you do when Microsoft drops DS3D from Vista?
MaximumPC pics X-Fi Xtreme Music as Best Sound of 2006.

 

[alg7_munif]

Donnie27,

I'm not an electronical engineer but after a quick reading in the internet I think that I've got a better picture about the DSP thing but I might be wrong.

From what I've read:

The CPU is not doing the sound processing because you just need a DAC if the sound is already digitally processed by the CPU according to wikipedia. All sound cards need to have a DSP to do all the sound processing according to this

However, general-purpose microprocessors such as the Intel x86 family are not ideally suited to the numerically-intensive requirements of DSP, and during the 1980's the increasing importance of DSP led several major electronics manufacturers (such as Texas Instruments, Analog Devices and Motorola) to develop Digital Signal Processor chips - specialised microprocessors with architectures designed specifically for the types of operations required in digital signal processing

The X-Fi has a powerfull EMU20K1 sound chip because it needs it, the Digital Signal Processing only needs about 11% of the chip capabilities but 70% of the chip capabilities is used for Sample Rate Conversion because its DSP can only work with a 48KHz sample rate according to this. The X-Fi's DSP can also work with 44.1KHz but only in creation mode.

The X-Fi's core can run at two internal sampling rates, 44.1 KHz and 48 KHz, although it will only run at 44.1KHz in Creation mode, and if you specifically tell it to do so

The old DSP from Audigy 2 also had this problem but it uses an external Sample Rate Converter according to your own source

With the Audigy 2 this operation was carried out by a Cirrus Logic CS8420 chip

Now I think that the C-Media CMI-8788 Oxygen HD(must be the DSP of the X-Meridian because it doesn't use the AC'97 codec but a much better I2S codec) is a better chip than the EMU20K1. I don't know if the CMI-8788 can work with variable sample rate or it also has an internal SRC because no external SRC is required on the X-Meridian. The CMI-8788 actually has 10-channel 192K/32bit(Auzentech only states 24bit) output, 8-channels are used with analogue and 2-channels with SPDIF. The recording input is also at 192K/32bit. For more info see this datasheet, go to page 9 for a simple diagramm.

Edit: According to the datasheet all the Dolby features are software features, that's why people are getting lower fps only when DD/DTS encoding is turned on.

Creative's EMU20K1 can only do up to 96K/24bit if more than 2 channels are used. The X-Fi came with an onboard RAM because it needs it too

Caching in audio processing is hugely important, because audio, like video is a real-time data type. And unlike 3D, where cache misses result in a lower frame rate, cache misses in audio can lead to snaps, crackles, pops and even possibly application crashes if samples can't be accessed fast enough

 

[Donnie27]

NO biggie dewd! I didn't just site Creative or CMedia's Jibber-Jabber. I posted what Creative said and what Independent Webmasters said to back it up it. CMedia uses the System Processor to Process DS3D. I asked you to provide me with a link to show it doesn't if you don't think so? You didn't.

http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-meridian.php

At leaast I found out it is a 128 voices and not 64 as I said.

X-Fi Xtreme Music -->($72.99 after $20.00 Mail-In Rebate) Newegg.

 

[Donnie27]

to: alg7_munif

Nice post, I'll check it out. I'll get back to ya, very interesting indeed

 

[Mer0vingian]

Unless you are using an application that is designed to output in surround, you will not experience any surround sound. Surround-capable games, DVDs in DTS and Dolby Digital, DVD-Audio and other 5.1 audio formats contain surround information. Audio CDs are stereo (two channels), and do not contain surround information. You will not hear any output from your surround or center speakers unless you use an upmixer.

I know that the x-fi sound cards has the CMSS®-3D upmixer which i can use,
Does the X-Meridian has something like that that I can use

 

[alg7_munif]

You don't need a X-Fi, have you set your speaker setup in the control panel to 5.1? I think you should start a new thread to ask for help for getting a surround sound with your system. With a new thread more people can help you out. Put you system info in your sig so that you don't have to give it out every time when people ask for it. The others need to know what setup do you have in order to help you.

Edit: Sorry for not answering, the X-Meridian also has features like that but it will be a waste of money if you don't really know what you want. If you only want a surround sound from your computer then any sound card can give you that with a correct setting.

 

[Mer0vingian]

You don't need a X-Fi, have you set your speaker setup in the control panel to 5.1? I think you should start a new thread to ask for help for getting a surround sound with your system. With a new thread more people can help you out. Put you system info in your sig so that you don't have to give it out every time when people ask for it. The others need to know what setup do you have in order to help you.

Edit: Sorry for not answering, the X-Meridian also has features like that but it will be a waste of money if you don't really know what you want. If you only want a surround sound from your computer then any sound card can give you that with a correct setting.

o.k. thanks thats all i wanted to know, that i can adjust my speakers as i want
and in the end i will get surround sound from my computer

 

[phide]

CMedia uses the System Processor to Process DS3D. I asked you to provide me with a link to show it doesn't if you don't think so? You didn't.

Was this directed to me?

 

[MixBar]

Now I think that the C-Media CMI-8788 Oxygen HD(must be the DSP of the X-Meridian because it doesn't use the AC'97 codec but a much better I2S codec) is a better chip than the EMU20K1. I don't know if the CMI-8788 can work with variable sample rate or it also has an internal SRC because no external SRC is required on the X-Meridian. The CMI-8788 actually has 10-channel 192K/32bit(Auzentech only states 24bit) output, 8-channels are used with analogue and 2-channels with SPDIF. The recording input is also at 192K/32bit. For more info see

Oh, oh. The EMU20k1 is a complex DSP with soundprocessing. The CMI8788 is a simple Soundcontroller without soundprocessing.
The EMU20k1 can handle 4096 Channels. Not to confound with 3D voices (EMU20k1 128 Voices, CMI8788 0 Voices)
The new CL properitary external digital interface CDIF can handle 8 24Bit/192kHz channel output/input. (16 channel@96kHz, 32 channel@48kHz).
Only absence still external devices with CDIF supports.

The CMI8788 needs naturally also a SCR, but this is CPU based.

 

[alg7_munif]

Oh, oh. The EMU20k1 is a complex DSP with soundprocessing. The CMI8788 is a Soundcontroller without soundprocessing.
The EMU20k1 can handle 4096 Channels. Not to confound with 3D voices (EMU20k1 128 Voices, CMI8788 0 Voices)
The new CL properitary external digital interface CDIF can handle 8 24Bit/192kHz channel output/input. (16 channel@96kHz, 32 channel@48kHz).
Only absence still external devices with CDIF supports.

The CMI8788 needs naturally also a SCR, but this is CPU based.

How complex is a DSP sound processing since the mixer uses more of the EMU20K1 power than the DSP itself, not to mention the much higher SCR requirement. Please read my post again and I have gave the source for you to confirm it. I wrote my post based on what I've read. Even Creative does not give a 8 24Bit/192kHz channel spec for the X-Fi on its website so do you have another source or a new Creative's chip?

96khz to analog 7.1 speaker output, 192kHz to stereo output

Edit: I still respect X-Fi because of its EAX feature and I really hope that Creative will add DD/DTS encoding feature for their cards. I do like competitions in computer industries like AMD against Intel and nVidia against ATi, hopefully Microsoft will also have a good competitor so that we as customers can benefit from the competition.

 

[Donnie27]

Was this directed to me?

Didn't I ask you for a link?

 

[Donnie27]

With the X-Fi, Creative Labs uses an old process but with a different objective. X-Fi Elite Pro and Fatal1ty cards feature 64 MB of SDRAM as compared to 2 MB for lesser versions. The objective of this « X-RAM » is to allow the DSP to support up to 1280 voices in hardware with a high level of performance . This use isn’t permanent as it depends on how games will be programmed to use it. Amongst those currently available are Battlefield 2, which natively supports X-RAM and UT2003 and 2004, which support it via a specific patch.

Prey uses it as well but it wasn't a question of need since I can easily use the Ultra Setting in Battlefield 2. Tell me, how do you use 128 voice with X-Meridian? Last time I chacked DS3D doesn't do it. According to their own site, there's NO OpenAL, EAX3 or better etc.. to get to 128 voices.

Tech Report X-Fi review.
X-Fi with X-RAM uses it just like a Video card uses its RAM.

The X-Fi has a powerfull EMU20K1 sound chip because it needs it, the Digital Signal Processing only needs about 11% of the chip capabilities but 70% of the chip capabilities is used for Sample Rate Conversion because its DSP can only work with a 48KHz sample rate according to this. The X-Fi's DSP can also work with 44.1KHz but only in creation mode.

If you use Bit perfect but that's nit picking. It can also go up to 192KHz and not just 48KHz or 4 X 48KHz or bypass it with Bit perfect but that's meant more for recording, hince Music Creation mode. ASIO 2 is nicely done here as well. A very nice amount or array of effects can be added to the record as I showed on of my bud's with one of my Guitars. I'd take an EMU over it but its not bad at all.

These take the form of FIFOs, dual-port RAM and registers for storing operands. Caching in audio processing is hugely important, because audio, like video is a real-time data type. And unlike 3D, where cache misses result in a lower frame rate, cache misses in audio can lead to snaps, crackles, pops and even possibly application crashes if samples can't be accessed fast enough.

A long time ago folks complained about this and the fix was not to use the Ultra setting. Using a 128 voices on a sound card is similar to using AA and AF on a Video card. The more RAM the card/s has, the better

Tech-Report
http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q1/xfi-fatal1ty/index.x?pg=5
With and without X-RAM

Creative says the X-Fi audio chip can actually handle 24-bit/192kHz recording, but the Fatal1ty's Wolfson WM8775 analog-to-digital converter (ADC) only supports 24-bit input up to 96kHz. The card's Cirrus Logic CS4382 digital-to-audio converter (DAC) supports 24-bit/192kHz output across the board; however, Creative limits 192kHz to stereo output because commercial multichannel 24-bit/192kHz content simply doesn't exist. Multichannel DVD-Audio only goes up to 96kHz, with 192kHz reserved for stereo recordings, making it hard to fault Creative's compromise.

Not the Chip but DACs and ADC's.

IF you or anyone else has a X-Meridian, run this on it? For a change, I'd love to see the results?

http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q4/soundblaster-x-fi/index.x?pg=1

http://www.atruereview.com/bluegears/index.php

DirectSound 3D HW acceleration
A3D™ 1.0 , EAX™ 1.0, 2.0 (powered by Sensaura), HRTF-based 3D Positional Audio (C3DX™), Direct Sound™ 3D SW

At first I though they meant HW via the Audio chip. I was PM-ed that they meant CPU as the HW. Direct Sound™ 3D SW. Now, you guys got a link saying the new chip doesn't use the processsor anymore?

http://www.cmedia.com.tw/?q=en/PCI/CMI8788

Multi-channel AC-link can support 2 AC97 codecs

 

[Donnie27]

o.k. thanks thats all i wanted to know, that i can adjust my speakers as i want
and in the end i will get surround sound from my computer

All surround sounds are NOT created equal. Pro Logic 11x sucks for example. Instead of upmixing I'd much rather use 24bit-96KHz Stereo.

 

[H-street]

i thought we went through most of these same things when the Mystique came out..


i was interested in the claim that the Meridian doesn't do DS3D in hardware mode, so i did a few limited tests last night and have come to the conclusion that my Xplosion does indeed have "some" hardware accelleration abilities for DS3D/DirectX Sound (or maybe the test is flawed, maybe others can help with testing parameters)..

it would be interesting if someone could do the same with the Xfi and post the numbers (i imagine any game will work, we are just looking for the rough difference between software and hardware mode), i may do this with my onboard sound tonight just to get a comparison..


it's not much, but i assume having a dual core system may alleviate some of the "gap" between hardware and software processing asumming Windows does use the 2nd core to some degree for system processes


Testing setup
X2 4400+
X1900XTX
Xplosion with latest drivers
2 Channel PCM / 44khz digital used - to eliminate the DDL/DTSC factor (i have the numbers on the DTSC also, i can post them tonight if anyone wants)
i used the 2 channel PCM just so i could listen for differences (my analogue is not hooked up)
note: i don't know if this affected anything , since the 5.1 was still selected in both the control panel and in game.. but using the DTSC numbers do confirm the below findings, which i am confident didn't affect the actual processing..

Game: Company of Heroes v1.0 (only game i have installed right now that has a built in benchmark).
Game Settings:
800x600/all graphic settings turned off or Low (as low as i can set it)
ATI Control panel set to performance/low settings
Sound Settings/ Ultra (44khz/128 voices)
(game is CPU limited at this point, for proper testing of CPU load)

Hardware accelleration controled via DirectX Diagnostic panel,

the numbers i ended up coming up with are as follows.


2 Channel Stereo (both game and windows control panel) / Hardware Accelleration off (Emulation mode, 100% Software processing)

Average framerate 144

2 Channel Stereo / Hardware Accelleration Basic

Average Framerate 148

2 Channel Stereo / Hardware Accell Full

Average Framerate 153


5.1 Channel / Hardware Accell Off

Average Framerate 141

5.1 Channel / Hardware Basic

Average Framerate 147

5.1 Channel / Hardware Full

Average Framerate 152


This was just a quick look, but it appears there is about a 6% boost in performance when you go from software mode to hardware mode for DirectX..

now not knowing completely what each directx setting is, beyond the fact that the more accelleration the more on-hardware processing is done. It is safe to say that the Xplosion at least is doing some processing of the DirectX/ which probaby includes the DS3D on hardware.. Which is about a 6% offload of the CPU to the soundcard in 2.1 channel mode and 7% in 5.1 mode .. (which to me sounds about right)..

some things unknown about Company of heroes itself is whether EAX is actually being used, i saw no mention of it in the game settings, but there may be some auto-detection and enabling between Low and Ultra mode (not tested enough to conclude in this quick look) and only had control over:

Number of Channels (Stereo/5.1 Discrete)
Quality of Sound (22 vs 44)
Number of Voices ( 32 to 128)

I confirmed the discrete 3d positioning is working in CoH (based off camera position) just via audible listening. (having run the mystique/Xplosion for a while i can confirm it does do discrete 5.1 channel position in all games i have tried thus far)

Soundwise, i could hear no difference between the 3 different Directx settings which leads me to beleive that it isn't actually altering the sound process it self, either that or i am losing my hearing. i had a concern it might actually just "not process" certain things on lower DirectX settings but audibly it was no different

an interesting note is going from 2 channel to 5.1 does indeed introduce more processing , no suprise there, more channels, more processing.. the difference betwen 2 and 5.1 in software mode is about 3%.. when hardware accelleration is turned on, even at basic mode this is alleviated going from 3% difference to a <1% difference.. which leads me to believe there is hardware accelleration being done for both a 2 channel and a 5.1 channel sounds..


It is no suprise that DDL/DTSC is done via software, this was something known back with the Mystique (my own analysis put it at about a 5% performance hit, my CoH analysis confirmed this). One thing may be to actually benchmark the Meridian to see if this same hit in performance still exists or if anything has been moved hardware side..

it should be noted, my goal is not to debate X-fi vs Meridian (which this thread has taken a turn to).. but just to provide more information on the Meridian extrapolated from my Xplosion..

this was just a quick look, not too extensive, draw what conclusions you will from it and more testing may be needed to draw a more concrete conclusion (i only spent an hour and half last night running some benches).. A different game may be better for testing, previously i had used TombRaider: Angel of Darkness which has some excellent setting choices when it comes to sound and decent benchmarking capability..

 

[phide]

Didn't I ask you for a link?

You did? Hmm, missed that, I guess.

In any case, I never said that the CPU doesn't handle most or all of DirectSound tasks with the X-Meridian. In fact, I think I did specifically mention that it did. The X-Fi is the only kid in town to accelerate DirectSound and OpenAL processes -- I don't deny it that.

 

[MixBar]

How complex is a DSP sound processing since the mixer uses more of the EMU20K1 power than the DSP itself, not to mention the much higher SCR requirement. Please read my post again and I have give the source for you to confirm it. I wrote my post based on what I've read. Even Creative does not give a 8 24Bit/192kHz channel spec for the X-Fi on its website

SCR is a very komplex topic. The algorithm used by the EMU20k1 is excellent but complex. The very good SCR is a large advantage of the EMU20k1.
All digital mixing need a SCR. Normally the Windows core mixer accomplishes the SCR (on devices without own SCR). In much worse quality.

Creative is the only manufacturer, that has a DVD Audio license(MLP). X-Fis and some Audigy are the only soundcards on the market which adequate DVD audio playback. 192kHz DVD audio is "only" stereo.

A Linzenz restriction is the prescribed 192khz rendition, not the hardware.
The expenditure is attached at conditions. All other PC (e.g. DVD Player software) solutions are down- and upsample the signal for artificial degradation.

so do you have another source or a new Creative's chip?

Nope. The EMU20k1 is completely enough for it.

@H-street

Software != Software

Software rendering path means generic DX Software rendering,
Hardware rendering path means rendering on driver level (here software too). CMedia did a good job. This DS3D software solution is a little bit faster than from Microsoft. However it is no genuine hardware based rendering.

 

[alg7_munif]

An interesting article about DSP.

It says that it is cheaper to design and build a single chip microprocessor that will only do specific tasks than building a multipurpose processor(the CPU). A specific processor could even do the task better than a multipurpose processor. The specific processor will take the burden off the CPU, that's why a sound chip is still needed to do the sound processing. Even an onboard sound chip will do the digital signal processing in its chip so there is no doubt that the processing is done in hardware. The real issue now is how good the sound chip will do its job to take the load of the CPU. If the processing is only done by the CPU, only a DAC is needed to convert the digital signal to analogue sound.

 

[H-street]

Software != Software

Software rendering path means generic DX Software rendering,
Hardware rendering path means rendering on driver level (here software too). CMedia did a good job. This DS3D software solution is a little bit faster than from Microsoft. However it is no genuine hardware based rendering.

intersting, you learn something new every day

So essentially the Cmedia's software solution is 6-7% faster than microsofts solution?

i just wanted to make sure i understood correctly (like i said, i had no idea what it really meant)..

that is interesting if that is the case, that you can achieve a 7% increase in performance just via a better software solution..



i'm very interested to see if someone could post some numbers for the Xfi or even the Audigy 2 (i may just take the time to cram my audigy 2 in a system to do the test)..

if we get a 7% increase just with better software drivers, than it'd be interesting to see what increase we get with the drivers + hardware..

 

[Donnie27]

You did? Hmm, missed that, I guess.

In any case, I never said that the CPU doesn't handle most or all of DirectSound tasks with the X-Meridian. In fact, I think I did specifically mention that it did. The X-Fi is the only kid in town to accelerate DirectSound and OpenAL processes -- I don't deny it that.

My bad and true!

 

[Donnie27]

i thought we went through most of these same things when the Mystique came out..


i was interested in the claim that the Meridian doesn't do DS3D in hardware mode, so i did a few limited tests last night and have come to the conclusion that my Xplosion does indeed have "some" hardware accelleration abilities for DS3D/DirectX Sound (or maybe the test is flawed, maybe others can help with testing parameters)..

it would be interesting if someone could do the same with the Xfi and post the numbers (i imagine any game will work, we are just looking for the rough difference between software and hardware mode),

this was just a quick look, not too extensive, draw what conclusions you will from it and more testing may be needed to draw a more concrete conclusion (i only spent an hour and half last night running some benches).. A different game may be better for testing, previously i had used TombRaider: Angel of Darkness which has some excellent setting choices when it comes to sound and decent benchmarking capability..

Nice work, maybe it does more work on-board than I thought. NO, I'm not locked into what I'm saying and asked for tests to show otherwise. Thank you very much

3D game sound is not just about positional Audio, tracking or even Wavetracing. If X-Meridian Supported OpenAL and could output its sweetness to DTS or DDL, I'd give it shot

Again guys please download RM 3DSound 2.3 here?

 

[Donnie27]

intersting, you learn something new every day

So essentially the Cmedia's software solution is 6-7% faster than microsofts solution?

i just wanted to make sure i understood correctly (like i said, i had no idea what it really meant)..

that is interesting if that is the case, that you can achieve a 7% increase in performance just via a better software solution..



i'm very interested to see if someone could post some numbers for the Xfi or even the Audigy 2 (i may just take the time to cram my audigy 2 in a system to do the test)..

if we get a 7% increase just with better software drivers, than it'd be interesting to see what increase we get with the drivers + hardware..

Screw the Audigy 2 Download the link above and also try the "Right Mark 3D Sound Positioning Accuracy test loop1.wav or your own favorite wave loop.

 

[H-street]

3D game sound is not just about positional Audio, tracking or even Wavetracing. If X-Meridian Supported OpenAL and could output its sweetness to DTS or DDL, I'd give it shot
[/URL]

This is definately the make or break for auzentech at this point, the buzz is there is suppose to be an "Vista" driver coming out .. whether this included OpenAL or not i cannot say..

but then again, right now i am very disheartened by vista and the no support for DS3D at all..

 

[Donnie27]

This is definately the make or break for auzentech at this point, the buzz is there is suppose to be an "Vista" driver coming out .. whether this included OpenAL or not i cannot say..

but then again, right now i am very disheartened by vista and the no support for DS3D at all..

I did the Vistsa test and my system passed it. The only low score was that I didn't have a DirectX 10 video card. I'm ready for sound but I'm still not upgrading to Vista until at least Service Pack 2

If X-Meridian could gain some of the X-Fi's main feature for Game support, I'd be on it quickly.

 

[phide]

My bad and true!

Now, perhaps you can elaborate on C-Media "matrixing"?

 

[alg7_munif]

It's already more than two weeks since I got two e-mails saying that my X-Meridian has been shipped but there is still no news about the card. Does USPS Global Priority mail have a tracking number? If it has maybe I should ask Auzentech for the number. Does anyone have any experience with USPS Global priority mail shipping to Europe? How long does it take usually to send a package from US to Europe?

 

[H-street]

It's already more than two weeks since I got two e-mails saying that my X-Meridian has been shipped but there is still no news about the card. Does USPS Global Priority mail have a tracking number? If it has maybe I should ask Auzentech for the number. Does anyone have any experience with USPS Global priority mail shipping to Europe? How long does it take usually to send a package from US to Europe?

i think last time i sent a USPS package to europe it took 8 or 9 days (this was to Denmark/kobenhaven)

 

[Donnie27]

Now, perhaps you can elaborate on C-Media "matrixing"?

If the Game supports OpenAL, such as America's Army and many others, X-Meridian will revert to Stereo. If you have 5.1 speaker setup you end up with "Matrixing".

 

[Moofasa~]

If the Game supports OpenAL, such as America's Army and many others, X-Meridian will revert to Stereo. If you have 5.1 speaker setup you end up with "Matrixing".

Not quite, it will use the inefficient OpenAL->DirectSound3D wrapper (which is made by Creative, so you can guess how much time they have spent optimizing for it) which takes a ridiculous amount of CPU power (I believe CoD was the game I had to drop down a whole resolution and play without aa/af on the X-Mystique). It still supports 5.1, but at a price.

 

[Donnie27]

Not quite, it will use the inefficient OpenAL->DirectSound3D wrapper (which is made by Creative, so you can guess how much time they have spent optimizing for it) which takes a ridiculous amount of CPU power (I believe CoD was the game I had to drop down a whole resolution and play without aa/af on the X-Mystique). It still supports 5.1, but at a price.

I'd not argue that at all and yes, I believe what you're saying here. That makes sense I agree, I know Creative wouldn't make an half-assed attempt to help others. They partnered with nVidia, want to bet if nVidia did one (nForce type) it would get the correct support? Thank you for the heads up.

I wish folks with these cards would try RightMark.

 

[phide]

Well, I'm satisfied.

 

[alg7_munif]

I wrote to Auzentech about my order and they have answered my e-mail with a tracking number. Not bad for a customer support I would say. I think I have corrupted my windows because I can't run the RightMark CPU utilization test, before installing RightMark I also can't run GRAW, it just won't start like the utilization test. Earlier GRAW runs perfectly on my system but I didn't know what I've done until it won't run anymore. I will do a clean install when my X-Meridian arrives. Anyway I still can run the positioning accuracy test and with my X-Plosion in DTS connect, the sound came from where it should be. I can choose directsound3D software, directsound3D hardware and directsound3D + EAX2. With EAX2 the sound has too much echo, it doesn't sound natural.

 

[Donnie27]

I wrote to Auzentech about my order and they have answered my e-mail with a tracking number. Not bad for a customer support I would say. I think I have corrupted my windows because I can't run the RightMark CPU utilization test, before installing RightMark I also can't run GRAW, it just won't start like the utilization test. Earlier GRAW runs perfectly on my system but I didn't know what I've done until it won't run anymore. I will do a clean install when my X-Meridian arrives. Anyway I still can run the positioning accuracy test and with my X-Plosion in DTS connect, the sound came from where it should be. I can choose directsound3D software, directsound3D hardware and directsound3D + EAX2. With EAX2 the sound has too much echo, it doesn't sound natural.

Did you try the Obstruction and Occlusion tests or will it let you? If these work, here's where Morph comes in. As you move from behind the walls, the sounds transitions and not just a *snap change. Elevation filters are sound system, system dependent. The differences between Dolby Headphone and CMSS 3D can be heard here as well. Again, the better the headphone the better the effects. Please note though, many games have much better support ( a few have worse support) than Rightmark or at least IMHO. It's more EAX 4 than 5.

I could easily use better headphone but my receiver works great for Analog discrete 5.1. It does'nt color or change the input it receives. It doesn't loose some of the effects or the affects of the effects. That's why I'll never go back to computer multimedia speakers of any kind.

I must also admit, until I tried EAX 5 I didn't think Creative could improve on 4 much, I was wrong.

I'll more than likely add one of the DDL cards to my HTPC downstairs. For that use I think they're great.

 

[4BwlNvvHufcy]

Is anyone aware of a changelog for the CMeida 8788 drivers released on 11/10/2006?

Curious if these may address the SRC being done (even resampling 44.1Khz to 44.1Khz) that is preventing these cards from being "true" bit-perfect.... supposedly. Hard to find good solid information on these cards....