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Digital is better if your digital receiver is better than your sound card, digital is also better if you consider that the analogue signal will be affected by noises from poor shielding and sound quality degradation can occur because of the cables are too long. If you think your $1000 receiver is better than a $200 sound card, just buy a $60 sound card and use digital.Circaflex said:thanks for the input guys I was under the impression digital was better, I'm going with the 200 dollar elite, should I bother with getting an amp along with a sweet 7.1 setup
PCMusicGuy said:Don't know if it's been posted in here but I read an interesting thread over on the AVS forum. One user compares the Elite to the XMeridian.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=765317
darkjedi664 said:However, the card only supports EAX 2.0. The sound was still quite good, thanks to DTS. But I could only use EAX 2.0 and nothing else (no 3, 4, 5 or even OpenAL). However, when I installed my XFi, and started playing FEAR; WOW!!! The XFi made FEAR into a brand new game! I'm hearing sounds that I haven't heard before!!! I just couldn't believe what I was hearing, and from analog none the less! I'm not trying to stick up for Creative at all, but I was just blown away at the sounds I was hearing out of some of these games. I just thought that DTS was so much better; but in games, EAX 2.0 + DTS does NOT sound better than EAX 3,4 or 5/OpenAL and no DTS . I was just so amazed that a game could sound like this, a game I've already played and beaten! I really have to replay all my games now to start hearing things I've never heard before.
AVOpus said:I understand your position though. Once you've been burned by a company like that it's hard to speak kindly about them. You're right with regards to gaming. There is NO other choice. The X-Fi kills the Merdiain in that regard. The X-Fi beats the X-Meridian in several areas, but the narrow use that I intend to use my sound card for just so happens to be the sweet spot for the X-Meridian. I would not recommend this card to everyone though. Creative is always the more global choice.
Come on, quote the whole thing!AVOpus said:My impressions so far:
Ok, I got the X-Meridian in my system. I temporarily removed the Elite Pro to audition the Merdian without any chance of another card conflicting with it. This will give me a baseline and I will be comparing it to my Outlaw 990 DAC which I preferred over the Elite Pro.
The Good news (for me):
The X-Merdian has a much better upper frequency range. There was just more detail here than what my X-Fi was giving me. I always felt like I needed to tweak the treble some on the X-Fis EQ.
Analog power output. Good god. This thing is almost stupid powerful. It was honestly more than I liked. At full output the level was nearly twice the signal level I was getting from the optical (both run to my Oulaw).
The signal is free from noise. Its a very clean card.
No pops. Power up or Power down.
The bad:
I was getting slight distortion from the analog outs near full level. The X-Fi never did break up, even at full level.
I has a very slight bit of grainyness to the upper frequencies. This might have been linked to the slight distortion mentioned above. Even at half volume.
The imaging/soundstage isn't as good as either the X-Fi or the Outlaw 990. There seemed to be a slight shift to the left side for most voices and instruments as well. This seemed weird to me. Everything was a bit more localized to the speakers. Part of this could have been the added high frequency information. The X-Meridian certainly was putting out a full range.
When set to 6 channels. The music always comes out of all 6 channels. I would prefer to set the number of speakes and have my material dictate how many channels to play out of. It would seem that in order for me to have Movies play out all channels I need to leave it in this mode which means all my music must be played out all 6 channels. I hope I am wrong here and there is something I can do to work around this. I had all DSP modes turned off.
The REALLY GOOD:
I just so happened to have 4 Burr Brown OPA2134PA Op Amps lying around that I was going to use for the X-Plosion but ended up with another model for it. I put them in the X-Meridian. There we go! Everything got better. MUCH better. The imaging was now squarely planted in the center when it should be. The overall sound was smoother without a trace of distortion. The soundstage even sounded larger. The best part of this was that this card now sounded better than my Outlaw 990! I could not believe the sound I was getting. It was all incredibly crisp and detailed, but not harsh, grainy, or "digital" sounding. Very lifelike.This is probably the best sound I have had come out of my speakers. Without a doubt this was the best of the four sound cards that have lived in that system.
Bottom Line:
Out of the box this card is good, but not amazing. There were several flaws my ears picked up in the sound. It would probably take a pretty accurate system to pick up on it though. The imaging and distortion were the most glaring faults. I think the review at Guru3d even mentions a weakness in the imaging or size of the soundstage. Add a good aftermarket Op Amp to this card and you add rocket fuel to this baby. I recommend the one I mentioned above. This chip works perfectly with this card and the volume is very linear. They are EXTREMELY cheap so don't worry about the added cost, its well worth it.
Just from a basis on how different the X-Fi Elite Pro sounded from my Outlaw I am making the initial conclusion that the X-Meridian reveals a good bit more detail in the upper frequencies and has a more pleasing overall sound. I will A/B against the X-Fi with both cards in my system tomorrow, but I can almost guarantee the outcome.
darkjedi664 said:However, the card only supports EAX 2.0. The sound was still quite good, thanks to DTS. But I could only use EAX 2.0 and nothing else (no 3, 4, 5 or even OpenAL). However, when I installed my XFi, and started playing FEAR; WOW!!! The XFi made FEAR into a brand new game! I'm hearing sounds that I haven't heard before!!! I just couldn't believe what I was hearing, and from analog none the less! I'm not trying to stick up for Creative at all, but I was just blown away at the sounds I was hearing out of some of these games. I just thought that DTS was so much better; but in games, EAX 2.0 + DTS does NOT sound better than EAX 3,4 or 5/OpenAL and no DTS . I was just so amazed that a game could sound like this, a game I've already played and beaten! I really have to replay all my games now to start hearing things I've never heard before.
RejZor said:Sound was different because of HRTF which every soundcard has. And basic DS acoustics. But honestly they don't sound nearly as good as EAX.
Good example is old but still impressive Need For Speed 3 or 4. Drive through Rocky Pass and Aquatica tunnels with and without EAX. While you get impression of sound in the tunnel, EAX one sounds far more realistic.
Main problem (if we could call it like that) around sound effects is that people just don't know what to expect. They don't exactly listen and they take everything as believable even though it's not played nearly as detailed as real environment effects. And EAX5 can really get you there (remember, EAX is not just about echos and reverbs). Another problem is also that people don't remember sound from session to session like they do for graphics. Someone can listen a game on X-Fi and on AC97 on some other PC and won't be able to tell the difference. But i was able to make differences even between integrated AC97, where my ALC655 had really good 3D positioning for an integrated chip, where some god knows what sound chip (i think it was SoundMax thingie) was so bad i just quit playing as i couldn't define a thing where's coming from. It was that bad.
Of course there are also games with bad sound accoustics and effects. FEAR is such game and i hate that. Even though it sounds impressive, sounds are all borked up and you don't know in the end if enemy is breathing on your neck or shoting 4 rooms away. Everything sounded the same. Other story is for example Call of Duty 1 and 2. First one powered by EAX3 HD and second by EAX4 HD. Now thats what i call "orgasmic sound". Same applies to Doom 3 Resurrection of Evil. And Quake 4 also, even though i only played it with EAX4 HD on Audigy 2 Value. Haven't played iton X-Fi (yet)...
You have to know what to expect from sound and honestly most people don't know what to expect.
alg7_munif said:Lol this is funny, one of the strongest Creative's fanb and also a X-Meridian basher on Guru3D forum said this:
alg7_munif said:Come on, quote the whole thing!
Analog power output. Good god. This thing is almost stupid powerful. It was honestly more than I liked. At full output the level was nearly twice the signal level I was getting from the optical (both run to my Oulaw).
alg7_munif said:Lol this is funny, one of the strongest Creative's fanb and also a X-Meridian basher on Guru3D forum said this:
CoD2 is using EAX 3 not EAX4.Currently i am playing it and noticed a big improvement or sounds.I also have a X-fi and i was a fan of EAX and creative but X-meridian changed my thought about EAX. even without EAX 3,4or 5 X-meridian sounds better to me than X-fi in game.Like ROBSCIX i also not gonna sacrifice the sound quality of XM just to get EAX.Hey Rej u ever heard XM?
EAX 3 SUPPORT
Call of Duty now supports Creatives EAX 3 audio system in both Single Player
and Multiplayer. Only hardware that officially supports EAX 3 will be able to
utilize this feature.
The thing is the card isn't bad for games, it is not better than X-Fi but doesn't mean it sucks just like X-Fi is not bad for musics but it just isn't better than the X-Meridian. You can still play games with 128 voices on the X-Meridian and it doesn't crawl in games without 8800GTX and Quad-core Conroe like you want it to be. Come on, you have never heard and used the card before and yet you said like you know the card. I would rather say the X-Meridian is noticeably "sounds better" than an Elite Pro, just because one guy on AVS forum(which has both cards and heard them) says so than saying the X-Meridian sucks because some guys who never listened to the sound before said so.Btw I have posted the same thing about FEAR on Guru3D Forum and now most of them seem to agree that EAX in FEAR sucks. Maybe EAX in FEAR is good just because you said it is good and the X-Meridian sucks just because you said it sucks eventhough many other people said the the opposite thing about both of them. If that is the case then I can't say anything anymore.Moofasa~ said:So he doesn't like the audio in Fear? Your point?
It's funny reading your threads because you try so hard to justify your purchase. Yes the Meridian has nice quality. Yes the Meridian sucks at games. And since the overwhelming majority doesn't have a 8800GTX and Quad-Core conroe to offset it, it's simply no value to gamers. I highly doubt the Meridian noticeably "sounds better" than an Elite Pro, just because one guy on AVS forum says so. So congratulations, you like your sound card, but realize it has little value to the rest of us.
So if I buy a cheap amp(price amp+X-Fi=price X-Meridian) and I still get a better sound from my X-Meridian then I should blame the cheap amp right? If I buy an expensive amp and get a better sound than my X-Meridian, should I praise the X-Fi then? Nice...Donnie27 said:Still wonder why I asked you about an Headphone Amp?
Moofasa~ said:So he doesn't like the audio in Fear? Your point?
It's funny reading your threads because you try so hard to justify your purchase. Yes the Meridian has nice quality. Yes the Meridian sucks at games. And since the overwhelming majority doesn't have a 8800GTX and Quad-Core conroe to offset it, it's simply no value to gamers. I highly doubt the Meridian noticeably "sounds better" than an Elite Pro, just because one guy on AVS forum says so. So congratulations, you like your sound card, but realize it has little value to the rest of us.
alg7_munif said:So if I buy a cheap amp(price amp+X-Fi=price X-Meridian) and I still get a better sound from my X-Meridian then I should blame the cheap amp right? If I buy an expensive amp and get a better sound than my X-Meridian, should I praise the X-Fi then? Nice...
Say this to the three guys here lol. I'm just quoting their posts. I didn't play FEAR and couldn't be bothered. Btw the X-Meridian Madness spreads faster than the bird flu disease, I didn't say anything there before...Donnie27 said:FWIW, I heard one guy bitching about X-Fi and jumbled sounds playing FEAR. I finally got time to visit him. Sure enough the sounds were all over the place and NOT where they were supposed to be. I have him exit the game and he has CMSS-3D checked with 5.1 speakers. A big NO NO! I asked him why and he said he saw some guy on [H] post to use it with 5.1 to simulate more than 5.1 speakers, Oh brother. Needless to say, I turned off CMSS-3D, the EQ and the damned Distortion causing CRYSTALIZER, I then turned on the EAX and Elevation filter and all was fine.
Another guy was told to play all Games in Entertainment mode and listen to Music in Game modeInfo posted here about 5 months ago. Most experience users will tell you to NOT do this because they know it doesn't work with Games. Game mode sets the system up EAX. IMHO, EAX and Music SUCKS!
alg7_munif said:Say this to the three guys here lol. I'm just quoting their posts. I didn't play FEAR and couldn't be bothered. Btw the X-Meridian Madness spreads faster than the bird flu disease, I didn't say anything there before...
Not owning but knowing it's capabilites.Moofasa~ said:Since when does two people owning a card count as "spreading faster than the bird flu disease"...![]()
I pretty much fully agree with this, unfortunately. It's one thing to look at the current situation, with Windows XP and games designed for Windows XP, but Windows Vista and games designed for Windows Vista are likely to be entirely different animals. I am, for what it's worth, absolutely positive that OpenAL may become the dominant audio API, and the Meridian is not going to go down this road without some significant bumps. From what we've seen, the X-Fi's going to transition pretty much perfectly, save for some scenarios where EAX breaks in older titles. No big deal, really.PCMusicGuy said:If you game, get an X-Fi. Hell, if you've even considered the XMeridian you should have enough to get the Elite Pro because it can be had cheaply nowadays.
So would I, and without any real question. I like the way the Klipsch sets handle themselves, but if the amps blow out every six months, I really can't imagine that being a good investment.Donnie27 said:Yes and I'd take one of those CHEAP $299 HT-in-a-Box over the Klipsch, Logitechs and Creative speakers any day.
Those OPAMPs are really darn cheap, replacing all four of them wouldn't be more than $20 with shipping. I don't know why they didn't put the BurrBrown right from the beginning, if they buy them in large quantities the cost of the OPAMPs would be much cheaper. I know this because I've replaced mine a long time ago.phide said:Even if you're not gaming...I still can't say that the X-Meridian is the better buy. If you upgrade the OPAMPs, you've surpassed the Elite Pro's price tag
Originally Posted by Donnie27
Yes and I'd take one of those CHEAP $299 HT-in-a-Box over the Klipsch, Logitechs and Creative speakers any day.
phide
So would I, and without any real question. I like the way the Klipsch sets handle themselves, but if the amps blow out every six months, I really can't imagine that being a good investment.
You're right; there was a price discrepancy in my head involving the X-Meridian.alg7_munif said:Those OPAMPs are really darn cheap, replacing all four of them wouldn't be more than $20 with shipping.
phide said:You're right; there was a price discrepancy in my head involving the X-Meridian.
Of course, the price gap's still fairly narrow. $210-215 bones versus $265? Considering the goodies you get in the Elite Pro package, the external box, the remote...the edge is razor thin.
I'm still as vehemently anti-Creative (as a company) as I've ever been, but considering the facts, the entire X-Fi line is actually very attractive. I suppose that, if I absolutely have to, I'm going to have to swallow my pride and buy one of the things.
God damn it.
Look at these and tell me which would you buy if you're in my place. My X-Meridian + 16% tax + OPAMPs + X-Fi OEM are cheaper than those. I've also bought a X-Fi eventhough I'm always around backing up the X-Meridianphide said:You're right; there was a price discrepancy in my head involving the X-Meridian.
Of course, the price gap's still fairly narrow. $210-215 bones versus $265? Considering the goodies you get in the Elite Pro package, the external box, the remote...the edge is razor thin.
I'm still as vehemently anti-Creative (as a company) as I've ever been, but considering the facts, the entire X-Fi line is actually very attractive. I suppose that, if I absolutely have to, I'm going to have to swallow my pride and buy one of the things.
God damn it.
alg7_munif said:Look at these and.
Lieferzeit unbekannt... (Delivery time unknown), man, I already have a X-Meridian with upgraded OPAMPs, I have a X-Fi connected to my X-Meridian to play games with my (this is for you Donnie) HD-595 headphones in EAX 5 and CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphones, I'm playing games at high resolution so no CPU bottleneck for me, I have AC3Filter and my Logitech speaker to do the DD/DTS decoding, and I also can make my X-Fi encodes DDMixBar said:
alg7_munif said:Lieferzeit unbekannt... (Delivery time unknown), man, I already have a X-Meridian with upgraded OPAMPs, I have a X-Fi connected to my X-Meridian to play games with my (this is for you Donnie) HD-595 headphones in EAX 5 and CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphones, I'm playing games at high resolution so no CPU bottleneck for me, I have AC3Filter and my Logitech speaker to do the DD/DTS decoding, and I also can make my X-Fi encodes DDI'm more than happy with my setup, I don't need the Elite Pro anymore.
oqvist said:ok so it´s specific for the X-meridian nothing you can do to your X-Fi?
All Auzentech's card use a DIY socket for their OPAMPs so you can change them by taking out the OPAMPs carefully and put in a new one. On X-Fi, you need to desolder the original OPAMPs and solder back the new OPAMPs. Doing this will void the warranty and if you are not careful, the OPAMPs can be damaged by excessive heat from soldering.oqvist said:ok so it´s specific for the X-meridian nothing you can do to your X-Fi?
AVOpus said:Game Over!
Damn, I just got my LM4562s for my X-Merdian today.....I'm literally speechless. The music is well...pure music. Everything just took on an incredibly realistic character. It blew me away. The Burr Browns were good, but geezus.. This is a no brainer folks. If ANYONE has an X-Meridian, dont hesitate and buy these. My poor Outlaw 990 is now a distant second. I can't imagine any analog output sounding better than this. The Swans 6.2s are singing now. Bass is just a tad less warm than the Burrs, but more musical. It's very dynamic and hits fast and hard. The mids and highs are freakin real. I can reach out and touch the instruments. I have read other reviews on this OpAmp that have declared it superior to the Opa627s as well. This sucker is the real deal.
P.S. My SB X-Fi Elite pro is still in my rack. I have done a few A/Bs against it and the combination of the DAC and OpAmps in the X-Merdian simply outmuscle it. One note with the X-Meridian is that I had to set the volume waaay down in order to avoid distortion. My Outlaw's 7.1 inputs cannot handle a 5v input without distortion. Others might encounter this with the X-Merdian. This thing is too damn loud. I wouldn't mind if they lowered the output a bit. It's way beyond overkill. Consider that almost every soundcard and CD player has a 2v output. 5v sounds .. well.. like its 2.5 times as powerful.
I can't express this enough. This is not a minor difference. I simply cannot believe how much of a difference there is between DACS and especially OpAmps. It's HUGE. I'm literally thinking about staying up all night listening to music. I switched back a few times to my Outlaw and it sounds like CRAP now. I thought it sounded great before. It's amazing how a direct comparison will change your perspective. One thing is clear listening to the music now. I don't hit the skip song button as much now. I simply am listening to everything and taking it all in. I have had four moments in my life that I would say were key in making me the fanatic I am today. Listening to a Flagship Yamaha receiver running 7 channels properly set up playing a multichannel movie (this was when it was a new thing), roomate in college buying some Boston Vr970s, getting my Swans (first "audiophile" speakers), and now this chip/card. Everything else has been small differences.
Louder doesn't = Better LOL!
He said the card is loud and he needs to turn the volume waaay down to make it sounds better lol. You are right, louder doesn't = Better.AVOpus said:Bass is just a tad less warm than the Burrs, but more musical. It's very dynamic and hits fast and hard. The mids and highs are freakin real. I can reach out and touch the instruments.
One note with the X-Meridian is that I had to set the volume waaay down in order to avoid distortion. My Outlaw's 7.1 inputs cannot handle a 5v input without distortion. Others might encounter this with the X-Merdian. This thing is too damn loud. I wouldn't mind if they lowered the output a bit. It's way beyond overkill. Consider that almost every soundcard and CD player has a 2v output. 5v sounds .. well.. like its 2.5 times as powerful.