Auzentech XMeridian is finally out!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Moofasa~ said:
Impossible, the bit rate of TrueHD is too high for uncompressed PCM on HDMI.
Click to expand...
Alright...let's do the math.

The maximum bitrate of HDMI 1.0 is 4.9Gbps. The bitrate of one uncompressed 24/192 PCM channel is 4.39Mbps. Multiplied by eight, and you get 35.15Mbps, which is roughly .007% of the total available bandwidth of HDMI 1.0. Assume that for TrueHD lossless, the bitrate is chopped by an average of 35%. 18.43Mbps, or .004% of the available bandwidth of HDMI 1.0, or .002% of HDMI 1.3. From a pure math perspective, HDMI 1.0's bandwidth could support over a thousand channels of 24/192.

There's no reason that I know to decode TrueHD on the pre-amp. If the player can decode it, might as well let it decode it. Any processing done by the pre-amp would have to be done after decoding anyway.
 
alg7_munif said:
How about this:


It says external decoding for players that can't decode it.
Click to expand...

Ah I see, Dolby changed it so HDMI 1.1 could work with TrueHD if the DVD player supported it.

Any HDMI suited A/V receiver should be capable to input the PCM and reproduce the higher bandwidth of the soundtracks. Initially, it was believed that those HDMI 1.1 suited A/V receivers would have to use analog cables from the multi-channel audio connectors (as with DVD-Audio), and wait until specification version 1.3 of HDMI be completed (and eventually change to a 1.3 compliant A/V receiver).

According to Dolby, there should be no need to replace a receiver suited with HDMI 1.1 to get the benefit of the higher-bit audio formats. However, when using the latest HDMI version 1.3 from player to receiver, the decoding would not have to happen in the player, the connection would stream the native mandatory and optional audio formats to the HDMI 1.3 suited A/V receiver, which would perform the decoding job.
Click to expand...
 
phide said:
Alright...let's do the math.

The maximum bitrate of HDMI 1.0 is 4.9Gbps. The bitrate of one uncompressed 24/192 PCM channel is 4.39Mbps. Multiplied by eight, and you get 35.15Mbps, which is roughly .007% of the total available bandwidth of HDMI 1.0. Assume that for TrueHD lossless, the bitrate is chopped by an average of 35%. 18.43Mbps, or .004% of the available bandwidth of HDMI 1.0, or .002% of HDMI 1.3. From a pure math perspective, HDMI 1.0's bandwidth could support over a thousand channels of 24/192.

There's no reason that I know to decode TrueHD on the pre-amp. If the player can decode it, might as well let it decode it. Any processing done by the pre-amp would have to be done after decoding anyway.
Click to expand...

According to this, the data transfer rate (video/audio) for BD is 54.0Mbps (1.5x) and for HD-DVD is 36.55Mbps (1x). Based on your math, the bandwidth is really limited by the optical drive, that's why the compression is needed.
 
Well I sure am glad we got that HDMI stuff all cleared up, lol. Seems we are all on the same page now. How on earth do they think they are helping the consumer with this mass of confusion? I take the simple route and send my decoded TrueHD over the analog outputs.

Back to the XMeridian. If one were to build a HTPC for HD DVD and Blu Ray, would the XMeridian be one of the best choices? I haven't heard of any upcoming software (WinDVD8, PowerDVD 6.5) that could decode the HD audio formats so I wouldn't suspect it wouldn't make a huge difference what sound card you use, but the better DACs would certainly offer some advantage.
 
alg7_munif said:
Based on your math, the bandwidth is really limited by the optical drive, that's why the compression is needed.
Click to expand...
Of course. My point was that HDMI is far from the limiting factor in terms of bandwidth. Despite all of the anti-consumer DRM SHIT, HDMI is going to a viable means of digital transfer for decades.

I doubt we'll see many 24/192 titles at all. If you assume the 15.3Mbps figure for 8 channel 24/192 TrueHD audio, you're talking about 1.91MBps, 115MBpm, or 6.9GBpm. No sweat for BD-50, really, but again, it's a big bandwidth issue.

24/88.2 is really the pinnacle as far as I'm concerned. Surpassing 88.2kHz equates to severely diminishing gains in terms of audio quality (if any, really). Most folks will be passing this stuff through whatever DACs comes in their JVC HTIB systems, so it's not like it really matters at that point. I'll be satisfied with 24/48 lossless for pretty much anything.

This is going to be a big thing for me, at least. No longer will I fear my work being butchered by a DD encoder.
 
PCMusicGuy said:
Well I sure am glad we got that HDMI stuff all cleared up, lol. Seems we are all on the same page now. How on earth do they think they are helping the consumer with this mass of confusion? I take the simple route and send my decoded TrueHD over the analog outputs.

Back to the XMeridian. If one were to build a HTPC for HD DVD and Blu Ray, would the XMeridian be one of the best choices? I haven't heard of any upcoming software (WinDVD8, PowerDVD 6.5) that could decode the HD audio formats so I wouldn't suspect it wouldn't make a huge difference what sound card you use, but the better DACs would certainly offer some advantage.
Click to expand...

Yes PowerDVD 7 also didn't have a True HD and DTS HD decoding capabilities yet. Actually if you see the spec of the X-Meridian's X-Tension board, you can get a 8-channel PCM 192/24 output that I think can be used for HDMI with some sort of converter but you need to have a software decoder first to really get a HD audio.
 
Excuse me for not reading all 21 pages. I have missed this completely.
I currently have an x-Fi and I am mostly gaming and watching some movies. As well as a bit of music.

I am reading about the major performance hit about this but it seems to have sound quality to die for and as good or better 3d then the X-Fi with CMSS3D with headphones?

I love the 3d with CMSS enabled but as they say in the review it screws with the bass primarily...

I do have 5.1 speakers as well that requires dolby encoding but primarily I use my DT 770 PRO:s.

anyway what price can you get this card at and where? Hopefully one that ship internationally or if someone could help me out :). It´s auzeantechs version you should get?

I guess there is no problems running it along with the X-fi and switching what card to use for what game and so what?
 
oh jeesus over 200$ :eek:

well if there is drivers that put it on equal term of the x-fi in term of CPU usage (without dolby encoding except dolby headphone) it may still be interesting
 
To hell with my money I need this... Is there any Us stores that ships internationally?
 
oqvist said:
Excuse me for not reading all 21 pages. I have missed this completely.
I currently have an x-Fi and I am mostly gaming and watching some movies. As well as a bit of music.

I am reading about the major performance hit about this but it seems to have sound quality to die for and as good or better 3d then the X-Fi with CMSS3D with headphones?

I love the 3d with CMSS enabled but as they say in the review it screws with the bass primarily...

I do have 5.1 speakers as well that requires dolby encoding but primarily I use my DT 770 PRO:s.

anyway what price can you get this card at and where? Hopefully one that ship internationally or if someone could help me out :). It´s auzeantechs version you should get?

I guess there is no problems running it along with the X-fi and switching what card to use for what game and so what?
Click to expand...

If you go to the Auzentech's website, you might find an online store in your country.

Let me tell you something, if you already has a X-Fi and you are using headphones for games, you can either use dolby headphone on the X-Meridian or, you can use CMSS3D on the X-Fi, connect your X-Fi to the X-Meridian using digital connection and let the X-Meridian do the D-A conversion, I did this with my two cards. I can still use EAX 5 and CMSS3D together without losing a better sound quality from the X-Meridian. When I tried this setup for musics, the X-Fi sounds as good as the X-Meridian, actually the X-Meridian sounds good, I'm only using the X-Fi's chip but the sound is actually from the X-Meridian.

To connect the X-Fi to the X-Meridian you need to enable the digital output of the X-Fi and enable the SPDIF input monitoring on the X-Meridian. People have used dual GPU and dual core CPU, I think that the dual sound card idea is very interesting but by using SPDIF, you can only get a stereo sound. If you play games with headphones+CMSS3D, the you will certainly get a better sound using this setup.

As for the bass, my HD-595 on the X-Meridian can really shake my head but before that happen I'll lose my hearing first.
 
Question -

If I feed the toslink output from my xbox360 into the toslink input on one of these soundcards, will it properly pass through and decode the DD/DTS audio data to the analog outputs?

thanks,

-q
 
You are telling me I can get the speed of the X-fi for stereo with eax 5 HD effectsand the sound quality of the Meridian! I love you ALG7 :)

Is CMSS3D as good as dolby headphone when running it like that when running them linked together?

I am running dual GPU, dual CPU wouldn´t mind running dual soundcards either :).
 
quadrinary said:
Question -

If I feed the toslink output from my xbox360 into the toslink input on one of these soundcards, will it properly pass through and decode the DD/DTS audio data to the analog outputs?

thanks,

-q
Click to expand...

It can pass it through but it can't decode the DD/DTS signal to analogue. I think that it doesn't have the decoding feature because most software players already have a DD/DTS decoding feature but they forgot that people may want to use this card as a receiver.
 
alg7_munif said:
It can pass it through but it can't decode the DD/DTS signal to analogue. I think that it doesn't have the decoding feature because most software players already have a DD/DTS decoding feature but they forgot that people may want to use this card as a receiver.
Click to expand...

aaah gotcha. So, on that note, do you have a suggestion for an external decoder to use with my ProMedia 5.1 speakers?
 
oqvist said:
You are telling me I can get the speed of the X-fi for stereo with eax 5 HD effectsand the sound quality of the Meridian! I love you ALG7 :)

Is CMSS3D as good as dolby headphone when running it like that when running them linked together?

I am running dual GPU, dual CPU wouldn´t mind running dual soundcards either :).
Click to expand...

Yes I'm telling you that but for the speed I can't really tell that they will be as fast as the X-Fi alone but I really think that it will be faster than a X-Meridian alone and will not be far behind the X-Fi. Does it really matter which is better, CMSS3D or Dolby Headphone? You will have both of them and you can choose between them lol. Actually I haven't played much games yet but I tried the setup and I know that it works, to know which is better I need to play some games, for musics I don't use both the CMSS3D or the Dolby Headphone because I believed that plain stereo is the best for musics. Btw I don't think that you can use dual GPU and dual sound card setup together unless you are using the 7950GX2 because I don't think that you will have enough PCI slot on today's motherboard. I've used dual GPU before(2x 6800Ultras) but I think that a single card at the same price is a much better choice when building a new PC, imo dual GPU setup only worth it for an upgrade.

A cheap external decoder that I know is the Creative's DDTS-100 but the sound quality would not be as good as a real HT receiver.
 
How big is the card? I think I will have to sell my SLI system to make it fit. It occupies two PCI slots :p
 
It is about the same size as the XtremeMusic, a little smaller I think. You could also sell your XtremeMusic and buy the smaller XtremeGamer since you only want the chip but try the setup first.
 
This card looks awesome. They just keep pumping card after card out, I wonder if they will have a successor to this in the near future? I don't know when to buy, I don't want to be outdated :p
 
im gonna piss you guys off, but i can get the xfi elite for 200 bucks from a friend with everything new in the box. im going to be gaming mostly and watching dvds sometimes. Games will be mostly through headphones, dvds through a 7.1 setup. Which do you think i would benefit more from?
 
Can´t answer if I don´t have both but the Elite PRO is exactly the same as the Xtrememusic except more RAM and a front panel. If you don´t need the frontpanel get a Xtreme Gamer and combine it with an X-Meridian perhaps? Xtreme Gamer has CMSS 3D and crystalizer but a bit worse sound quality but that from what I have read shouldn´t matter if you couple it with the Meridian :).

It will cost you 50$ more that combo but it may be worth it :)

That extra RAM has yet to pay off significantly it seems. You gain 1-2 fps in BF 2 is all I have seen...
 
Circaflex said:
im gonna piss you guys off, but i can get the xfi elite for 200 bucks from a friend with everything new in the box. im going to be gaming mostly and watching dvds sometimes. Games will be mostly through headphones, dvds through a 7.1 setup. Which do you think i would benefit more from?
Click to expand...
I don't know how good the Elite Pro compared to other X-Fi but for me the X-Meridian is really good compared to other X-Fi. Even if I have a X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS(about the same price) and someone wants to exchange his X-Meridian with my X-Fi, I would gladly do it. I've heard the sound from both, a normal X-Fi and a X-Meridian, for me the X-Meridian sounds much better. The Elite Pro could be better than the X-Meridian because it uses different DACs compared to a normal X-Fi or maybe not. Btw I have a X-Fi XtremeMusic and I would be more than happy if someone wants to trade his X-Meridian with me but I don't think anyone will do it because the X-Meridian is much more expensive than a XtremeMusic. I would rather have another X-Meridian than keeping my XtremeMusic.
 
oqvist said:
Can´t answer if I don´t have both but the Elite PRO is exactly the same as the Xtrememusic except more RAM and a front panel. If you don´t need the frontpanel get a Xtreme Gamer and combine it with an X-Meridian perhaps? Xtreme Gamer has CMSS 3D and crystalizer but a bit worse sound quality but that from what I have read shouldn´t matter if you couple it with the Meridian :).

It will cost you 50$ more that combo but it may be worth it :)

That extra RAM has yet to pay off significantly it seems. You gain 1-2 fps in BF 2 is all I have seen...
Click to expand...

No at all, reseach the Elite Pro and then post again?
 
Circaflex said:
im gonna piss you guys off, but i can get the xfi elite for 200 bucks from a friend with everything new in the box. im going to be gaming mostly and watching dvds sometimes. Games will be mostly through headphones, dvds through a 7.1 setup. Which do you think i would benefit more from?
Click to expand...

$200 I'd take the Elite Pro real quick LOL!
 
thats the way im leaning, towards the 200 dollar elite, i really want a front panel which the x-meridian doesnt have right now also, and the elite has the external box which is awesome IMO

Only thing that worries is the sample rate, the fatality has a 192 along with the x-meridian, but the elite only has 96, what gives?
 
Circaflex said:
thats the way im leaning, towards the 200 dollar elite, i really want a front panel which the x-meridian doesnt have right now also, and the elite has the external box which is awesome IMO
Click to expand...

I'm looking at the I/O Drive for my X-fi as well for my Guitars.
 
Circaflex said:
thats the way im leaning, towards the 200 dollar elite, i really want a front panel which the x-meridian doesnt have right now also, and the elite has the external box which is awesome IMO

Only thing that worries is the sample rate, the fatality has a 192 along with the x-meridian, but the elite only has 96, what gives?
Click to expand...
If the X-Fi chip can really do 192kHz then all X-Fi cards can do 192kHz or did you mean the input?
 
Must be Newegg's mistake, even the SNR is the same as other X-Fi. Btw X-Fi can do stereo 192kHz, X-Meridian can do 8-channel 192kHz if the number is important to you.
 
yea it might be, both can hook up speakers in digital correct? if so i think im going to grab the 200 dollar elite, although the egg has it now for 260. If anyone can confirm that i could hook up digital speakers to the elite please post, im stuck at work on my pda and cant surf as quick as someone at home can, thanks
 
If you want digital surround, no, you will only get stereo from a creative's card. If you want a stereo digital output, a XtremeMusic will sound as good/bad as the Elite Pro. If you want a digital surround output, a Theatron DTS will sound as good/bad as the X-Meridian. You should keep your money if you only want digital, get a CMI8788 card and you will get digital surround. If you want a good analogue output, buy the Elite Pro or the X-Meridian, what I know is the X-Meridian is better than a normal X-Fi.
 
alg7_munif said:
Must be Newegg's mistake, even the SNR is the same as other X-Fi. Btw X-Fi can do stereo 192kHz, X-Meridian can do 8-channel 192kHz if the number is important to you.
Click to expand...


Seen any 24bit 8 Channel sources? Unless there's a real use, it's a gimmick. Yes, Creative has had some classic gimmicks:)
 
Numbers are already not important for me, I believed the RMAA's SNR for the X-Fi and bought a XtremeMusic but I'm dissappointed with it. Man this Circaflex guy is unbelievable, he wants to buy a Elite Pro to use the digital connection?
 
alg7_munif said:
Numbers are already not important for me, I believed the RMAA's SNR for the X-Fi and bought a XtremeMusic but I'm dissappointed with it. Man this Circaflex guy is unbelievable, he wants to buy a Elite Pro to use the digital connection?
Click to expand...

Sure I'd never get one for Digital out:) I hear ya' but the Elite Pro plays back and records better than our Xtreme Music models. It has better DACs. Maybe not as good as your upgraded BB X-Mer but hey. Those 595's sound better on the X-Fi with an HP AMP. Once I blow cash on some other stuff, those are the cans I'm getting to replace my old Philips HP 890s.
 
Circaflex said:
yea it might be, both can hook up speakers in digital correct? if so i think im going to grab the 200 dollar elite, although the egg has it now for 260. If anyone can confirm that i could hook up digital speakers to the elite please post, im stuck at work on my pda and cant surf as quick as someone at home can, thanks
Click to expand...

You'd want that bad boy for Analog out and very good Analog out at that. Then gaming on it is the BEST IMHO. Left computer multimedia speakers alone for over a year now. Once you go with a receiver and real speakers, you never go back.
 
Donnie27 said:
Sure I'd never get one for Digital out:) I hear ya' but the Elite Pro plays back and records better than our Xtreme Music models. It has better DACs. Maybe not as good as your upgraded BB X-Mer but hey. Those 595's sound better on the X-Fi with an HP AMP. Once I blow cash on some other stuff, those are the cans I'm getting to replace my old Philips HP 890s.
Click to expand...
I've upgraded the OPAMPs not DACs, the DACs can't be upgraded. If I use an external DAC with an amp for my X-Fi, the good sound is not from X-Fi but from the DAC and amp, that's why audiophiles only need an AV-710 card, just a simple audio processor no need for a powerful chip.
 
alg7_munif said:
I've upgraded the OPAMPs not DACs, the DACs can't be upgraded. If I use an external DAC with an amp for my X-Fi, the good sound is not from X-Fi but from the DAC and amp, that's why audiophiles only need an AV-710 card, just a simple audio processor no need for a powerful chip.
Click to expand...

My bad, that's what I meant, was in a hurry:)
 
alg7_munif said:
I've upgraded the OPAMPs not DACs, the DACs can't be upgraded. If I use an external DAC with an amp for my X-Fi, the good sound is not from X-Fi but from the DAC and amp, that's why audiophiles only need an AV-710 card, just a simple audio processor no need for a powerful chip.
Click to expand...

Oh and been there done by using the Wolfson's on the rear channel of that card. I say they're crazy as hell. I'd NEVER cripple my computer like that again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top