AUTOCAD comp build. HELP!

[jabutin]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

AUTOCAD program and possibly some gaming

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

I have about $1000-$1200 budget not including tax and shipping

3) Where do you live?

I live in Hawaii, kinda far off but I would be willing to buy online

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

Well, I want a computer that can run the program smoothly. I need at minimum of 8GB RAM. I want a hard disk speed with a minimum of 7200 rpm and maybe 500GB up. I'm not very particular with the case. I'm not too sure about what I need for the CPU though. As for the videocard, I was told that the NVIDIA quadro series is best for 3D modeling and business programs. The rest of the parts, I would kindly take any suggestions with my given budget.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
None

6) Will you be overclocking?

Maybe

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?

1920×1080, I have a 17" screen at the moment.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

I plan to buy it within the month

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc.

I honestly don't know how to answer this...

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

No, I may need to buy an OS, 64bit

 

[Dangman]

As for the videocard, I was told that the NVIDIA quadro series is best for 3D modeling and business programs.

Yeah that's true but they suck for gaming to the point that it's not even worth gaming. So what's the priority here? AutoCAD or gaming? Do note that you might be able to get sort of middle of the two extremes performance with an actual gaming card.

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?

1920×1080, I have a 17" screen at the moment.

Wait what? How do you have a 17" screen with a resolution of 1920x1080? Is it a laptop or CRT screen?

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc.

I honestly don't know how to answer this...

Well, you're gonna be looking at an Intel setup so Crossfire, RAID, USB 3.0, and SATA 6Gb/s are already stock options. So now you have to decide if you need Firewire, SLI, or eSATA.

 

[tonytnnt]

What are you doing in AutoCAD? There can be a big difference in some of the more basic drawings (a lot of what my company does are just site plans/figures) versus an entire building. The basic 2D work doesn't take much in the way of a GPU, but I can see it becoming a lot more important as the design gets more complex and detailed.

You'll probably be better off getting a decent gaming card for this budget though. Fitting a Quadro into a $1200 build is tough.

 

[jabutin]

Yeah that's true but they suck for gaming to the point that it's not even worth gaming. So what's the priority here? AutoCAD or gaming? Do note that you might be able to get sort of middle of the two extremes performance with an actual gaming card.

I actually have more priority on using AUTOCAD because I am worried about the lack of performance when it comes to the 3D processing that some AUTOCAD programs have.

Wait what? How do you have a 17" screen with a resolution of 1920x1080? Is it a laptop or CRT screen?

Sorry, I would want to buy a new monitor with a 1920X1080 resolution. My current monitor is a 17" monitor 1440X900. But if I could buy a cheaper monitor that will do the job just so I can save a few bucks, that may be better. I have a Coby tv with an HDMI input and I was wondering if I could possibly just use that as a monitor. Would that be possible?

Well, you're gonna be looking at an Intel setup so Crossfire, RAID, USB 3.0, and SATA 6Gb/s are already stock options. So now you have to decide if you need Firewire, SLI, or eSATA.

Well, I may need SLI for that extra 3D processing that I may need but I am unsure about how that will fit my budget.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[jabutin]

What are you doing in AutoCAD? There can be a big difference in some of the more basic drawings (a lot of what my company does are just site plans/figures) versus an entire building. The basic 2D work doesn't take much in the way of a GPU, but I can see it becoming a lot more important as the design gets more complex and detailed.

You'll probably be better off getting a decent gaming card for this budget though. Fitting a Quadro into a $1200 build is tough.

Well, I would want some gaming put in so I may as well get a decent gaming card. What gaming card would you recommend? Would I also need to worry about the compatibility of the parts I buy?

 

[tonytnnt]

Compatibility shouldn't be a big issue. When you say

I actually have more priority on using AUTOCAD because I am worried about the lack of performance when it comes to the 3D processing that some AUTOCAD programs have.

Do you mean Autodesk's AutoCAD or do you mean something else (like Microstation, Revit, 3dsMax, Rhino3D, Solidworks, etc.?)

I'm helping my girlfriend's brother build an architecture workstation this summer and have started doing some preliminary research, both on this forum (which is very useful) and elsewhere. I started this thread and got a lot of good information from it, but I don't know how complex your drawings/models will be. I know for the build I'm helping with, it will probably be a GeForce GTX 460, 470, 560, or 570 (depending on the budget and when it finally gets built.) A GeForce GTX 560 TI might actually be a good fit for this build. It's good for gaming at 1080p, but it also can run CUDA plugins (but not Quadro optimized ones.)

If you can let me know exactly what programs you'll be running, and then your average level of model complexity (skyscraper, house, room, car, gear, etc.) that will help me (and others) out when suggesting a build.

As for the Coby TV, yes, you can use that as a monitor. However, if possible, you might want to consider one or two of these (or similar):

$165 (before $10 MIR, use promo code EMCKEJK94) - ASUS VH238H Black 23"

 

[jabutin]

Compatibility shouldn't be a big issue. When you say



Do you mean Autodesk's AutoCAD or do you mean something else (like Microstation, Revit, 3dsMax, Rhino3D, Solidworks, etc.?)

I'm helping my girlfriend's brother build an architecture workstation this summer and have started doing some preliminary research, both on this forum (which is very useful) and elsewhere. I started this thread and got a lot of good information from it, but I don't know how complex your drawings/models will be. I know for the build I'm helping with, it will probably be a GeForce GTX 460, 470, 560, or 570 (depending on the budget and when it finally gets built.) A GeForce GTX 560 TI might actually be a good fit for this build. It's good for gaming at 1080p, but it also can run CUDA plugins (but not Quadro optimized ones.)

If you can let me know exactly what programs you'll be running, and then your average level of model complexity (skyscraper, house, room, car, gear, etc.) that will help me (and others) out when suggesting a build.

I was going to be using Autodesk's AUTOCAD programs such as the Autocad 2012 LT or the Civil 3D as I am an engineering student trying to get my structural degree. I would make models for houses and maybe skyscrapers.

I was considering getting a GeForce actually and the GTX560 was the one I was looking at before a friend told me about the Quadro's. But I saw the price of the quadro's and thought it was a little ridiculous. But now I am pretty sure I would just get the GTX560.

As for the Coby TV, yes, you can use that as a monitor. However, if possible, you might want to consider one or two of these (or similar):

$165 (before $10 MIR, use promo code EMCKEJK94) - ASUS VH238H Black 23"

The suggested monitor you put up? By similar, do you just mean I should buy a decent LED monitor? If so, I may be able to find a cheaper one and save me some money. Or if possible, I may be able to use my current monitor.

 

[pgaster]

Compatibility shouldn't be a big issue. When you say



Do you mean Autodesk's AutoCAD or do you mean something else (like Microstation, Revit, 3dsMax, Rhino3D, Solidworks, etc.?)

I'm helping my girlfriend's brother build an architecture workstation this summer and have started doing some preliminary research, both on this forum (which is very useful) and elsewhere. I started this thread and got a lot of good information from it, but I don't know how complex your drawings/models will be. I know for the build I'm helping with, it will probably be a GeForce GTX 460, 470, 560, or 570 (depending on the budget and when it finally gets built.) A GeForce GTX 560 TI might actually be a good fit for this build. It's good for gaming at 1080p, but it also can run CUDA plugins (but not Quadro optimized ones.)

If you can let me know exactly what programs you'll be running, and then your average level of model complexity (skyscraper, house, room, car, gear, etc.) that will help me (and others) out when suggesting a build.

As for the Coby TV, yes, you can use that as a monitor. However, if possible, you might want to consider one or two of these (or similar):

$165 (before $10 MIR, use promo code EMCKEJK94) - ASUS VH238H Black 23"

I just replied to the other thread to hopefully stop you from getting a Fermi card for any professional use.

Nvidia has crippled the opengl drivers and the Fermi Geforce cards are only 1/3 or 1/4 the speed of the old GTX 260 or GTX 280 cards for professional apps, which were not fast to start with. (Note I am talking about Fermi for pro apps, not games, which Fermi is fast at.)
Don't believe me? Don't take my word for it, go read the wiki and follow the links in the footnotes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_400_Series#OpenGL_Problems


Also look at a GTX 280 vs a Quadro: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/quadro-fx-4800,2258-10.html

"A Quadro FX 4800 moves up to 10 times faster when running workstation applications than the GeForce GTX 280. This leads swiftly to a clear and inescapable conclusion: there's no good reason to use a GeForce graphics card for workstation applications. It just doesn't pay."


And when people start talking about modding geforce cards to quadro, it just makes my stomach churn. This hasn't been true for many years.

The last cards that could be sort of modded to have some quadro features and extra performance were the G80 cards, but they were not full quadros after the mods.
Also consider that if you want to go this path you need rivatuner, which hasn't been updated in years and won't work directly with new drivers, so you would also be stuck modding old drivers. Good luck with that.

See here for a modded G80 vs a real quadro: (scroll down)
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=539&pgno=9

A 8800GTX modded to a quadro was only half as fast at most benchmarks as a true Quadro which was based on a much inferior 8600GT gpu.


So if you want good performance from professional apps get a real Quadro or FirePro card.
FirePro cards may be cheaper, and to be honest you don't need anywhere near top of the line to get the job done.
The Firepro V4800 has the same gpu as a 5670 and 1 GB of RAM. It is a DX11 card and would play games just fine and be good for pro apps. The quadro cards in the same price range are weak at games because they have less powerful gpus.

 

[tonytnnt]

The suggested monitor you put up? By similar, do you just mean I should buy a decent LED monitor? If so, I may be able to find a cheaper one and save me some money. Or if possible, I may be able to use my current monitor.

Sorry, rereading that I wasn't very clear. You can use the Coby TV as a monitor. I don't know how great the picture is and all that stuff, but yeah it'll work.

I was suggesting the $165 Asus monitor as an alternative if you wanted a dedicated 1080p monitor for the computer. You could also set the two up in a dual monitor configuration -- most of the people in my office who use CAD/Microstation can't live with a single screen anymore.

And for structural engineering a GTX 560 should be good. Once you start getting paid for your work think about a Quadro.

Some caveats about the build:

• The Intel Z68 chipset just got released and pricing will probably flucuate quite a bit on that.
• The prices of the components in the build below can change on a daily basis. A month is a long time for computer pricing, and the best deal today may not be the best deal tomorrow, let alone a month from now (in fact it usually won't be the best deal a month from now.)

Build time!

$385 - Intel Core i7-2600K and G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
$130 - MSI P67A-G43
$243 (before $20 MIR) - EVGA 01G-P3-1561-AR GeForce GTX 560 Ti FPB (Fermi) 1GB
$65 - SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB
$70 - Antec NEO ECO 620C 620W
$60 - COOLER MASTER HAF 912
$20 - ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner
$100 - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit OEM

Subtotal: $1,072.91
Shipping: $95.97 (to zip code 96822)
Total: $1,168.88

Note: Check with your school to see if you can get Windows 7 for less.
Also, there's some room left over if you'd like more RAM or a different case.

If you have the time check it against Amazon to see if they have free super saver shipping to Hawaii on some of those parts.

Edit: Didn't see pgaster's post. From what I've gathered from people who use the cards day to day in the post I linked to earlier and a few other places, the Fermi Open GL issue is a minor one since so much of the work is D3D now.

 

[jabutin]

I just replied to the other thread to hopefully stop you from getting a Fermi card for any professional use.

Nvidia has crippled the opengl drivers and the Fermi Geforce cards are only 1/3 or 1/4 the speed of the old GTX 260 or GTX 280 cards for professional apps, which were not fast to start with. (Note I am talking about Fermi for pro apps, not games, which Fermi is fast at.)
Don't believe me? Don't take my word for it, go read the wiki and follow the links in the footnotes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_400_Series#OpenGL_Problems


Also look at a GTX 280 vs a Quadro: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/quadro-fx-4800,2258-10.html

"A Quadro FX 4800 moves up to 10 times faster when running workstation applications than the GeForce GTX 280. This leads swiftly to a clear and inescapable conclusion: there's no good reason to use a GeForce graphics card for workstation applications. It just doesn't pay."


And when people start talking about modding geforce cards to quadro, it just makes my stomach churn. This hasn't been true for many years.

The last cards that could be sort of modded to have some quadro features and extra performance were the G80 cards, but they were not full quadros after the mods.
Also consider that if you want to go this path you need rivatuner, which hasn't been updated in years and won't work directly with new drivers, so you would also be stuck modding old drivers. Good luck with that.

See here for a modded G80 vs a real quadro: (scroll down)
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=539&pgno=9

A 8800GTX modded to a quadro was only half as fast at most benchmarks as a true Quadro which was based on a much inferior 8600GT gpu.


So if you want good performance from professional apps get a real Quadro or FirePro card.
FirePro cards may be cheaper, and to be honest you don't need anywhere near top of the line to get the job done.
The Firepro V4800 has the same gpu as a 5670 and 1 GB of RAM. It is a DX11 card and would play games just fine and be good for pro apps. The quadro cards in the same price range are weak at games because they have less powerful gpus.

Since I am making this comp for more of a business reason, that would mean I should go a quadro then. But do you have any suggestion as to what kind of Quadro I should get to at least my minimum performance or something that would fit easily in my budget?

 

[jabutin]

Sorry, rereading that I wasn't very clear. You can use the Coby TV as a monitor. I don't know how great the picture is and all that stuff, but yeah it'll work.

I was suggesting the $165 Asus monitor as an alternative if you wanted a dedicated 1080p monitor for the computer. You could also set the two up in a dual monitor configuration -- most of the people in my office who use CAD/Microstation can't live with a single screen anymore.

And for structural engineering a GTX 560 should be good. Once you start getting paid for your work think about a Quadro.

Some caveats about the build:

• The Intel Z68 chipset just got released and pricing will probably flucuate quite a bit on that.
• The prices of the components in the build below can change on a daily basis. A month is a long time for computer pricing, and the best deal today may not be the best deal tomorrow, let alone a month from now (in fact it usually won't be the best deal a month from now.)

Build time!

$385 - Intel Core i7-2600K and G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
$130 - MSI P67A-G43
$243 (before $20 MIR) - EVGA 01G-P3-1561-AR GeForce GTX 560 Ti FPB (Fermi) 1GB
$65 - SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB
$70 - Antec NEO ECO 620C 620W
$60 - COOLER MASTER HAF 912
$20 - ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner
$100 - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit OEM

Subtotal: $1,072.91
Shipping: $95.97 (to zip code 96822)
Total: $1,168.88

Note: Check with your school to see if you can get Windows 7 for less.
Also, there's some room left over if you'd like more RAM or a different case.

If you have the time check it against Amazon to see if they have free super saver shipping to Hawaii on some of those parts.

Edit: Didn't see pgaster's post. From what I've gathered from people who use the cards day to day in the post I linked to earlier and a few other places, the Fermi Open GL issue is a minor one since so much of the work is D3D now.

I was actually wondering what this build would look like if I use a quadro instead since I want to use this for business purposes in the near future. Do you have any suggestions as to which I should buy without going overboard with the price? I saw the quadro cards and they are at least like $400 and I was wondering what you would suggest.

Thank you so much for your help. It was very useful!

 

[tonytnnt]

If you want to game with a Quadro expect your budget to go through the roof and not have as good of gaming performance as a cheaper card. So pick your poison, no gaming, or slower AutoCAD.

 

[jabutin]

If you want to game with a Quadro expect your budget to go through the roof and not have as good of gaming performance as a cheaper card. So pick your poison, no gaming, or slower AutoCAD.

You make a very good point. And I do want a little gaming here and there. If anything, once I start earning more money, I can always build a new one with better specs since my budget would be better. I will see if there are any more suggested builds that people recommend but if not, I will just go with yours. It fits my budget well and I can buy some of these parts for a much cheaper price. Thanks.

 

[tonytnnt]

Yeah, no problem. The great thing about PCs is how modular they are. So even a year from now if your budget situation changes and you need that extra performance you could pop in a Quadro or Fire Pro card and be good to go.