Audio cables

F

Fading Phoenix

Gawd
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
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602
I'm just posting a general query. I was eyeing up optical toslink cables the other day and the vast differences in prices. Anyway, I found myself wondering, are more expensive cables like the Monster brand cables actually worth the premium they cost?
 
I've never seen the results of any double-blind A/B test that concluded that high-end cabling is in any way better than lamp cord (or even metal wire hangers) when used in typical setups. Unless your system demands very long cable runs, you way as well go with whatever sort of cabling you're comfortable with.

Try the cheapest stuff first. If you find that you run into issues with noise, you can then invest in a higher-quality cable with greater shielding (after making sure your noise issue isn't due to poor cable routing or something else entirely).
 
Well, optical doesn't need shielding. So...it works, or it doesn't.

For electrical cable, there are measurable properties which can affect the quality of transmission, as well as shielding questions. But some nice 18 or 16 gauge speaker wire at a few bucks for a hundred or so feet and some sense about where you route it are all you usually need.
 
Actually it was proven, wire coat hangers work just as well as $100 monster cable wires..was in the tech sites a while back.

Anyone who buys monster cable products needs slapped.
 
TL;DR?

DB is unreliable because hearing is so subjective, and also because the testing methodology people use is generally crap. So I tend to leave it to oscilloscopes and L/C meters, combined with a basic working knowledge of the principles of electrodynamics. If it has no physically quantifiable benefit, then it's all voodoo to me. :D

BTW to clarify: Monster products usually aren't BAD...just extortionately priced.
 
Alright, so pretty much what I was already expecting anyway. Even if there was a diffference I wouldn't be able to believe that it would be worth the insane prices on some of those cables. Right now I'm not even sure what brand the optical from my computer is, and other than that I'm just using phillips 14 gauge speaker wire to my paradigms. Thanks all for the great responses.


persisting1 said:
If you want premium cables at a reasonable price, then look into SignalCable.

I have no affiliation, I'm just a happy customer.

http://signalcable.com/
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lol. I loved the photo of their toslink cable laid out across the stones like a photo shoot. :D Thanks for the link.
 
not worth the price premium

I'll buy monster if it is on sale or if I can find it somewhere cheap, simply because the actual build quality of the cable is usually pretty decent
 
ashmedai summarized it well.

Optical cables have no coupling adapters on the ends, so its like a wire plugged straight into your device. At a length of 3 feet or 6 feet, the only thing you pay for is the brand name and the materials surrounding the optical line.

Regular open-wire speaker cables are also quite generic. You might want a thicker gauge, but other than that, there are no mermaid-licked and nitrogen injected helical designs with sparkly plastic pieces that would make me do anything but laugh - and certainly not buy. And yes, lamp cord works fine. Though depending on the application, there are instances where you might want shielded speaker wire.

Other wired cables DO have quality control issues related to connector solder, connector-to-wire flexibility, and interference. If you are going to plug something in and not move it... ever... then you might get away with just making sure you have good shielded cables. I usually look for double-shielded when I can (foil and braid). If the cable is one that you know you will be plugging, and unplugging and moving and plugging and unplugging more than a handful of times, I would pay a premium for such things as RCA, TSR, etc cables where I know they are well shielded AND they have solid end connectors that won't fall apart easily. If you are doing portable Audio or Video work, then I would definitely pay a premium for good cables, such that they can hold up to repeated packing/unpacking coiling/uncoiling and plugging/unplugging. You could buy one premium cable to last you years, or buy a cheap cable and have to replace it in a month or three.

As for brands... Monster, Blue Jean, Signal etc are good. Monster is sometimes panned for being over-priced and I can agree... but there are other companies out there that make Monster look like a discount. hehe.
 
ashmedai said:
Well, optical doesn't need shielding. So...it works, or it doesn't.
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Ahh...I didn't notice he was specifically talking about optical cables. In that case, the cheaper the better.

ADDICT76 said:
Actually it was proven, wire coat hangers work just as well as $100 monster cable wires..was in the tech sites a while back.
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It wasn't necessarily "proven". That was just the result of one listening test.

Few things in the audio world are ever truly "proven".
 
phide said:
Ahh...I didn't notice he was specifically talking about optical cables. In that case, the cheaper the better.


It wasn't necessarily "proven". That was just the result of one listening test.

Few things in the audio world are ever truly "proven".
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incorrect.

ffrom a measurability standpoint it is. Equipment can measure things that no human will ever hear. I am talking down to 10^-6 measurements worth of resistance, capacitance, inductance, time coherance etc.

Now CONVINCING the golden ears that they are not really hearing the subjective words they describe is an entirely different matter, but from a scientific standpoint, they have been proven to be no better ;)

IE, an electron does not care what way the arrow points on a copper cable. It also is not high enough in frequency to be able to use skin effect or any of the high frequency items that do not apply to the audio spectrum ;)
 
figgie said:
incorrect.

ffrom a measurability standpoint it is. Equipment can measure things that no human will ever hear. I am talking down to 10^-6 measurements worth of resistance, capacitance, inductance, time coherance etc.
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Keep in mind that something an instrument would pick up like that will show up in practice as a dynamic effect - which is MUCH easier for the ear and brain to notice. A small capacitance issue (or whatever) can cause surprisingly large changes in the resulting sound.

Not advocating $:eek::eek::eek: cables by any means, just pointing out a flaw in dismissing potential effects completely using that particular objection.
 
ashmedai said:
Keep in mind that something an instrument would pick up like that will show up in practice as a dynamic effect - which is MUCH easier for the ear and brain to notice. A small capacitance issue (or whatever) can cause surprisingly large changes in the resulting sound.

Not advocating $:eek::eek::eek: cables by any means, just pointing out a flaw in dismissing potential effects completely using that particular objection.
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nope.

Capcitance effect high roll off. Resistance over all volume, Inductance, low Roll off. Niether will have an effect in the audio spectrum of energy which has been measured. You really do not want to speculate on how easily guided the mind can be. That is why every single drug testing has a placebo tested AGAINST. That is how powerful the mind is in making something, out of nothing. ;)
 
figgie said:
nope.

Capcitance effect high roll off. Resistance over all volume, Inductance, low Roll off. Niether will have an effect in the audio spectrum of energy which has been measured. You really do not want to speculate on how easily guided the mind can be. That is why every single drug testing has a placebo tested AGAINST. That is how powerful the mind is in making something, out of nothing. ;)
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Psychology, eh? I thought we were talking electronics here.

Although if you want to try to teach your grandma to wire low-pass filters, you're welcome to try.
 
You only need to consider optical cable quality in long runs. For normal distances, like 20 feet or less, it just doesn't matter. What starts to happen at longer distances is losses and reflections start to become significant so the plastic normally used isn't good enough.

However for short distances, you actually WANT the plastic cable. They are extremely flexible and very durable. Real glass fiber optic cable is much easier to break. So for any normal run, you want cheap plastic optical cable. I personally like the stuff Blue Jeans Cable sells. It's fairly cheap, durable, and they'll cut it to whatever length you like. However any cheap optical cable is a good choice.

Another thing to note is there's no particular reason to use optical, unless your device only supports it. Coax works just as well. Do remember that everything is converted to electrical pulses one way or another. If you use coax, it just needs to be 75 ohm video cable.
 
I have a sony optical cable actually. I believe it was 12.99 from target. I had initially gone to bbuy and they only their generic dynex cables, and they were practically the definition of a rip-off (they were $19.99 i think.) Crazy I know, but I remember I didn't buy them because they were generic and priced absurdly high; i wouldn't have bought them if 51 benjamins grew on every tree in my backyard every day, because I don't like to give money to products that are made and priced to rip people off.

Anyway, one thing no one mentioned is that you do kind of want a thick optical cable, since they tend to break if they're twisted/bent.

There are some cases in which cabling definitely matters:
you always want all copper house wiring. i would never live in a house if i suspected it had any aluminum wiring. in fact, the only requirements I'll have for the 1st house of my very own, are no aluminum wiring, and lightning rods. my parents house, where i've lived in since I was but a wee lad has copper wiring and lightning rods.

you want a lower gauge power cord for higher wattage psu's because they 16/18 gauge power cords don't deliver adequate current from the wall

and if a cord is ridiculously thin, then it could snap or tear.
 
you could also diy cables if you know how to solder. I got tired of how cables are never in the exact size I needed. (a little ocd) I ended up buying a sack of connectors pretty cheap on ebay along with a spool of star quad. It also really cheap if you need to make a bunch of cables. Hell I make them for all my friends too and still have a ton left over.

P1010431.jpg
 
you could also diy cables if you know how to solder. I got tired of how cables are never in the exact size you need. I ended up buying a sack of connectors pretty cheap on ebay along with a spool of star quad. It also really cheap if you need to make a bunch of cables. Hell I make them for all my friends too and still have a ton left over.
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What kind of cable do you use and where do you get it from?
 
ADDICT76 said:
I'm having flashbacks of the $1800 speaker wires from 07'...
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Heh, if you thought that was funny, check this out. There's some pretty humorous reviews for it, too.

Anyways, with regard to the original post, personally, I'd stay away from Monster and other high priced brands. Now, I don't like buying the absolute cheapest of the cheap - especially for analog cables, for reasons mostly already mentioned, but I definitely like to stick with lower cost cables (Monoprice, occasionally Hosa or Parts Express). The money you save can eventually be put towards items more likely to provide an increase in sound quality.
 
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phide said:
A little context goes a long way. We're not talking about what's measurable -- we're talking about what's audible.
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"If a tree falls in a forest, and no one is there to hear it..."

If it's audible but not measurable, either you need better instruments or your mind is playing tricks.
 
Obviously we aren't on the same page here (I'm not sure when the split happened, frankly). I'm not making any claims whatsoever regarding subjectivity versus objectivity and audibility versus measurability. An audible change is one that can be consistently measured (in whatever quality applicable) and one that can be indicated by double-blind A/B or ABX trials, obviously.

I'm not claiming that a difference can be perceived which might somehow null itself when evaluated with test equipment or double-blind testing. That goes very much against basic science.
 
phide said:
I'm not claiming that a difference can be perceived which might somehow null itself when evaluated with test equipment or double-blind testing. That goes very much against basic science.
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Okay, that makes more sense. :D

The sad part is that it's still good marketing...:(
 
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