Audigy 2 5.1 out probs

Discussion in 'Computer Audio' started by mmooney86, Dec 13, 2004.

  1. mmooney86

    mmooney86 n00b

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    I hooked my audigy 2 zs gamer to a pioneer reciever hooked up to 2xpolk audio rti8 +2xpolk rti6 +1xpolk csi3 +1xvelodyne cht12... I use speaker settings to test and all channels work with "noise" test but sub is really weak. In 2 ch mode and pro logic reciever makes sub loud.in 5.1 when I play MP3s I have NO sub movement... I dont want to bass redirect because speakers go <40hz...

    How do I get audigy 2 zs to play bass to sub and speakers
     
  2. GodsMadClown

    GodsMadClown 2[H]4U

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    Welcome to Audigy bass management hell.
     
  3. magnetik

    magnetik Moderator Staff Member

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    how is the reciever hooked up? RCA's or digital out? If you are using RCA's then dump that idea go out and buy a miniplug > rca jack adapter at radio shack and run it digitally.

    [..:: magnetik ::..]
     
  4. mmooney86

    mmooney86 n00b

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    yea then I get no CMMS surrond just prologic. The surrond provided by the audigy 2 zs rocks if it had bass... makes progic look like poohie.... ANY way to get it to double the bass to the sub and the fronts?
     
  5. seto

    seto [H]Lite

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    Its a "known" issue and its been around for YEARS. Check out the Create Labs European web site forums.

    Card owners have been screaming about this with zero positve results. The last thing Creative* Labs did was put out an FAQ stating basically nothing.

    The THX calibration pumps out bass correctly, so its not a HARDWARE issue. It is completely a driver issue that they have refused to fix.


    * Creative = pass the buck and push out the same hardware
     
  6. schapman

    schapman Gawd

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    I'm using the 6ch output... and the only way I've been able to get decent bass out is to enable Bass Redirection at about 90-100Hz. Seems to do the trick for me
     
  7. bjornb17

    bjornb17 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I know what you mean.

    i have my receiver connected via the 6 channel direct AND digital out from the audigy 2 zs. The 6 channel direct gives almost no bass whatsoever, but its good for surround in games. for movies and everythign else i use the digital out and set everything within the receiver. i have my sub set to +4db. also, in the audigy speaker calibrator thing i have main volume, bass, and trebble all set to 75% which helps a bit.
     
  8. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I've read this forum for about 3 years and never posted here. I've been a reader of [H]ardOCP since just before the Athlon K7 launched. I registered just so I could reply to this thread so I hope it is not wasted.

    All receivers have Bass Management, though it might be called something else. Creative didn't do anything differently than anyone wanting the THX stamp on their product.

    Bass Redirection is a setting meant for the Satellites and Sub, NOT just the Sub. This is a very important setting for Receivers just as it is for any Sound card. The lower you set the Range, more of the Low Frequency goes to the satellites and AWAY from the Sub. A common setting to this on a receiver might be a setting asking if you used Large or Small Satellite speakers? If you select small, more Bass and even Mid Bass is sent to the Sub. If you&#8217;re using Full Range Speakers (3 or 4-way for example) then you simply disable Bass Redirection.

    To use correctly, you must turn this setting up to at least 160Mz and if you want the woofer loud, turn it up pass 200MHz. You don&#8217;t need that much bass coming out of the Satellites anyway.

    My Audigy 2 ZS is connected to a Pioneer http://www.audiobuys.net/Pioneer/485.htm

    It&#8217;s connected via COAX for Digital. The cable is a 1/8&#8221;-Male at one end and a Single RCA Male at the other, Radio Shack Part number 42-2444A, 6ft. Shielded Audio and Digital Camera Cable.

    Analog was tricky and took some work but it rocks! Not only thanks to Radio hack, for Stereo 1/8&#8221; jacks to RCA but Vivanco. This one should have a separate post. This cable can be found at http://www.vivanco.com/cms/com/fram...e=Produkte_Vivanco_Einstieg&own_key=49&menu=2

    This part completely solves the Audigy&#8217;s 3rd Jack that requires an odd 4 segment 3 +1 1/8&#8221; Jack. The cable is meant for a Camcorder and the colors corresponds to just that. The 3 male RCA jacks are; Yellow for Video and of course Red and White for L&R. When connected to the Audigy 2 ZS, they will now out put as follows: Yellow becomes the Sub Output, White is now the Front Center and Red is the Rear Center.

    If you have a powered Sub, you can connect it directly to the Yellow Jack. You will need to move the Bass redirection above 160Hz. 200Hz is way too much! I removed a Customized Sub and replaced it with a Cheap KLH, the other threaten to shake my computer and printer apart, hehehehe!

    Donnie27
     
  9. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    See post #8
     
  10. bjornb17

    bjornb17 [H]ard|Gawd

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    sounds like a good idea, but:
    1) the link doesnt show anything
    2) can you be more descriptive?
    3) i also use my sub on my receiver for FM music and stuff like that, then how will i connect my sub?

    thanks :D
     
  11. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Oh crap, their site is down.

    Here’s how it works. Folks are reporting crappy sounds from their Audigys of kind, many didn’t bother to install the getting started Demo, learn to use the card, and then uninstall this Bloatware as it is called.

    The 3rd Jack controls the Front Center, Sub and Rear Center in that order. Normal Stereo Jacks have 3 segments are called 2 pin because the 3rd segment is a common ground. The Creative Labs almost Proprietary Output uses a 4 segment 3 pin because it outputs to F-C, Sub and R-C. Please note 7.1 is the same as 6.1 since many 7.1 modes only send a Mono signal to the two Rear Speakers that act as the One Rear Center speaker. The Vivanco Camcorder Jack defeats this hold up by connecting perfectly for complete 5.1 and 6.1/7.1. The single 1/8” 4 segment jack allows discrete Front and Rear Centers and Sub via 3 RCA. You can connect straight to single powered speakers, use a smaller stereo and use L&R Aux in and do L- for Front Center and R for Rear Center, even connect a Stand Alone Powered Sub directly to the Sound card.

    I have my Bass Redirection currently set at 134MHz. The Part number for the cable is 9/120-G and 13798 by Vivanco I bought it at the Lerche (Similar to Best Buy) while visiting Family in Germany.

    Donnie
     
  12. mmooney86

    mmooney86 n00b

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    Ummm.... I stated orignally this is an Audigy 2 ZS which the hookup has stereo out on 3 connecters for (front l/r) (surrond l/r) and (center/sub out). I had a sound blaster 5.1 that used the 3pin but the audigy doesnt require this. This is proven by using the channel noise generator in the speaker setup screen which properly addresses each channel so I know hookup is correct. Movies work excellent except that only LFE is pasted to the sub not L/R bass. I appreciate the comments on bass redirect but my Polk Audio RTI8s dont need bass redirected out of them. They go down to 26HZ at 1w/1m +-3db and 42HZ at RMS (125W)... Hence rolling them off sucks.
     
  13. GodsMadClown

    GodsMadClown 2[H]4U

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    Even large speakers do well with being crossed over. Producing low and mid freqs on the same driver introduces distortions. Whatever your speakr size, it's pretty much best to always call them "small".
     
  14. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    No, not really, I have a set of MegaWorks 650's that used this same 4 segment 1/8" jack as well. That last connection is the Front Center and Sub like you said but also the Rear Center for 6.1 and Two rears for 7.1. LFE can be sent through any of the Ch, that's true, but the Center/s can't.

    The Bass Redirect is a setting intended for the Sats more than the Sub. You wouldn't want your Pro Media, 680/560, MegaWorks sats trying to output 64Hz, would you? The setting steers that same LFE to the Sub and away from the Sats. I don't care if your Sub can go down to 15Hz, when you lower this setting, you're sending the Lows to the sats and away from the Sub. Don't take my word for it, test it? It removes Bass from the sats, it only lowers the Volume on the Sub while doing so. If you set this setting at it's highest setting, 200Hz, your Sub gets the Full LFE Channel. That setting doesn't mean it is sending a 200Hz Signal to the Sub, it's now sending 200Hz to the sats.

    Case study.

    I have a 400W Dual Voice Coil Cerwin Vega 12" Sub, two heavy duty Chokes, Didn't matter if I used the old Harmon Kardon or the JVC, it was too much bass and threatens to shake my Computer room apart LOL! When they (Creative Labs) say Redirect, they mean from the Sats back to the Sub so the readings are Backwards. This confuses the hell out of folks BTW! :) I made this same mistake, I thought that if I moved this setting up, it would take some of the bass out, first there was a Loud BOOM from the speakers when I set it to 200Hz (trying to remove bass) and cra-ASH as my clock fell from the wall as the walls shook from an even louder BOOOOM. I lowered this setting low as it would go and my sats started to "Flopp and Fart" and my Sub stopped playing. I played this setting with different kinds of music and game sounds to confirm it. The default setting has the Sub all but disabled so you don't blow it up.

    This reply was meant just as much for others who might be reading this, not just for you. I have Pioneer VSX-D711 and the Technics SA DX940 both 5.1 in my Den. THese systems redirect Bass away from small single Driver speakers the same way as you change the settings from small to large speakers.

    Donnie
     
  15. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    In my Den, that's true for Movies, but not for Music playback. In my Office where my computer is connected the Pioneer, I use large on the receiver and small on the computer. It's like a happy medium. I have Old school Roland Studio monitors on the From and Advent 1008s on the rear and and Sony on the front, just got the Advents.

    Donnie
     
  16. Mister X

    Mister X [H]ardness Supreme

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    <--- Smacks self in the head and says:
    Pft. No wonder why that other thread looked familiar. :p

    Are you sure the AV cable is what fixed the problem?

    It does make sense but when the card is in 5.1 mode it should not matter cause those outputs are not used and shorting them SHOULD not do anything.
    Of course should and does are two different things. :)
     
  17. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Their site is back up now.

    Donnie
     
  18. bjornb17

    bjornb17 [H]ard|Gawd

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    if "Die Seite fram...n_key=49&menu=2 konnte nicht gefunden werden
    Die von Ihnen angeforderte Seite (fram...n_key=49&menu=2) wurde nicht gefunden.
    Der Systemadministrator wurde verständigt.

    Vivanco.de Startseite " means that the site is up, then yes it is. :mad:
     
  19. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Hahaha I just used the link :mad:

    Donnie
     
  20. Mister X

    Mister X [H]ardness Supreme

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    I got the same message

    Die Seite fram...n_key=49&menu=2 konnte nicht gefunden werden
    Die von Ihnen angeforderte Seite (fram...n_key=49&menu=2) wurde nicht gefunden.
    Der Systemadministrator wurde verständigt.

    Vivanco.de Startseite
     
  21. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    http://www.vivanco.com/cms/com/index.html?id=fqXQjNiw

    Donnie
     
  22. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    http://www.vivanco.com/cms/com/index.html?id=fqXQjNiw

    Then go to;
    Products
    Vivanco
    Cables

    Then pick--> Camcorderkabel/Adapter (12)
    It is the 6 and 7th down selections on this page. I've very sorry for this screw up guys! Mine worked becuase it has a cache page, sheesh! :(

    If this page worked it would be on this one.
    http://www.vivanco.com/cms/com/deta...id=YUgDTNIb&mv_pc=81&mv_arg=13798&own_key=210
     
  23. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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  24. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Been back to check the link or is not worth replying to if it works?

    Donnie
     
  25. Mister X

    Mister X [H]ardness Supreme

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    This one works now:
    http://www.vivanco.com/cms/com/deta...id=YUgDTNIb&mv_pc=81&mv_arg=13798&own_key=210

    But that may have something to do with the fact that I formated my primary drive and then spent most of last night reinstalling the software on my system. :rolleyes:

    This one is pointless:
    http://www.vivanco.com/cms/com/index.html?id=fqXQjNiw


    Regardless of that I knew exactly what type of cable you meant. ;)
     
  26. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    No it's not pointless, this proves they aren't some Here-Today-Gone-Tomorrow Company. Would really use stuff from some unknown company on your rig?

    Is there an American company with similar cables?

    Donnie
     
  27. Mister X

    Mister X [H]ardness Supreme

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    :rolleyes:
    No, I would make my own cable.

    Bunch of them.
    Here is one example
    http://www.rpelectronics.com/Defaul...asp&Detail=/English/Content/Items/211-348.asp
     
  28. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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  29. mmooney86

    mmooney86 n00b

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    You guys have missed the point... these are not $20 satelite speakers... i did not pay $400 for the set... these are $2000 system $450 a peice polk audio speakers... bass redirect does what it says moves bass from the speakers to the woofer... i need it in both... HOW?????
     
  30. magnetik

    magnetik Moderator Staff Member

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    What are your speakers setting set to on your reciever? I know on mine if it's set to "small" mode then it will transfer the bass to the sub... if it's set to "large" then it will spread the bass to the speakers. I am running a thx ultra reciever so bass management might be different.

    [..::magnetik::..]
     
  31. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Set your receiver speakers, it its setup section to large, this should kill bass management on the receiver, at least 100 on hte sound card. There's still plenty of Bass in mine at that setting. Intermediately turn the setting on and then off to check the bass level in your front speakers as you move the or change settings. At one point I had too much bass for my computer room. My old and cheap stuff is light years less than what you're talking about. Yet, it still Rocks!

    Donnie
     
  32. mmooney86

    mmooney86 n00b

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    Ok.... I posted this in an av forum and they didnt know enough about computers to solve this... here nobody seems to understand that when you enable bass redirection the sound card removes bass from the speakers.... when you set the speaker size to small on the reciever it pulls bass form those speakers... My speakers are capable of 26HZ at max SPL in the from and 32Hz at max SPL in the rear (93Db @ 1w/1m sens to 125W).. I dont want to remove bass from them I want the woofer to double the bass in the front channels....
     
  33. magnetik

    magnetik Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe they didn't understand what you needed bass management for because most people on avs probably don't use Audigy2's sound settings and bass management for HTPC stuff. anyways that's what I was asking... "were your front speakers set to small?" if so.. I mentioned to set them to large. Do you really need your soundcard to do bass management? I just feed the sound digitally to my reciever and let it handle it. I don't think there is any bass management or eax unless you are using the analog connections.. I may be wrong tho... I am on a soundstorm so it's perfect for my htpc and music. I just let my Pioneer Elite handle all my sound fields and speaker settings.
     
  34. mmooney86

    mmooney86 n00b

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    At least with my reciever it only doubles the bass by setting all speakers to large and choosing subwoofer (pls) setting. The only problem is in the 5.1 analog connection mode (5.1 multich in) the reciever goes direct not pls to the sub
     
  35. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Sound Storm uses bass management as well. Crossover is from 50 to 500.

    I understand exactly what this guy is talking about. I use my Audigy 2 ZS and Pioneer VSX-D711 set up with Bass Management enabled. I've had friends leave my place feeling like they spent too much money. Even at 132Hz, my old 1985 model Rolands are still pumpping out plenty of bass but they're rated at something like 98db per 1W. The only folks I know complaining about something like this? Folks who don't have an Audigy 2 ZS or etc.. Or those taking bad advice from sound storm owners who think they know what they're talking about. ;)

    First and foremost FACT is 5.1 material doesn't send that much bass to the Sats anyway.

    Unless it's DVD-Audio or SACD, it wasted for the most part.

    Most professional folks who record music will laugh at the amount of bass overly done on such systems.

    With the type of Sub he has, if it is properly setup, it should drown out the bass from the speakers anyway. If not, that was a waste of money.

    One more time, my Cerwin Vega had to be removed from my system, the bass shook the clock off the wall in my computer room. If my speakers could compeat with that, I'd not use a danged Sub.

    Donnie
     
  36. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    There should be plenty of bass left on the sats if that slider is set to 50% or less=P

    Donnie
     
  37. mmooney86

    mmooney86 n00b

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    in the interest of audiophile reproduction I would like true sound in all speakers not a rolled off mockery of the orignal production...
     
  38. bjornb17

    bjornb17 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Not entirely correct. My front mains go down cleanly to 25Hz. My receiver, for my sub, is set to LFE and my crossover from my mains to my sub is 40Hz. In most movies, the bass is extremely hard hitting even with the sub turned on or off. when i feel the 12" woofers in my mains, they are kicking away really hard in movies.
     
  39. Donnie27

    Donnie27 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't remember the site but I read that Movies are recorded and then shipped to perform at 20-20 or Flat, not 5-35 like the guys at 3DSS bragged about.

    The LF effects will get to the sub not matter what, bass management is for folks who might not want a Sub, or the ones who use those dingy speakers or even computer based sats.

    I get very good bass on the mid level setting and there's no way in hell that the bass from my speakers are being kicked up to 132MHz by the time it's outputed. Maybe the reciever is adding it back, but their still bumppin', thumpin' and going bottom boom, I don't start to loose bass until I reach about 160 as I told the other guy. So far I've tried two unpowered Subs with the aid of an old JVC receiver as the Amp, one from a 560z, one from Megaworks 650, One powered KLH that I'm using now and a JBL 200W, Cerwin Vega was the easy winner but way over kill.

    Maybe when I finish my HTPC for Downstairs for the Den I'll notice a difference. I also noticed I loss some highs when with the lower settings, maybe it's just me though.

    Donnie