I guess this is as fast as it can run but I want really impressed. Try to do to much multi tasking and it chokes. Win 7 gives it a 3.3 rating. Just strange I have to sit there and wait for explorer to open. The rest of the Win 7 ratings are good.. graphics I think was a 4.4 and gaming was a 5.3.. drive speed was 5.9. Maybe I need to turn off some of the aero and effects in windows 7? My netbook with a 1.6ghz single core atom runs great and opens everything real quickly but it also has an SSD drive. Only thing I may have done wrong was I left the Drive setting in bios as "SATA" the other option was "RAID" and "AHCI" I probably should have installed it AHCI but not sure how much of a difference this would have made?
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Atom 330 not very snappy.
- Thread starter Copyright
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No, it really is just slow. All of the other subsystems in the computer are fast enough, but the atom itself is not a capable desktop processor for large-resolution desktops. I even overclocked mine to 2ghz and it still wasn't acceptable performance. To your question about SATA/RAID/AHCI: no, the setting wouldn't make a noticeable difference.
jeremyshaw
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The ATOM chokes on Flash and just normal web browsing.
If you have more then 2 applications open... don't switch between them
I have an ASUS n10, it's fast, but not that fast. (not as fast as a Core 2 Duo at all).
If you have more then 2 applications open... don't switch between them
I have an ASUS n10, it's fast, but not that fast. (not as fast as a Core 2 Duo at all).
Yup, I made the mistake of building this as a replacement for my mom. Wish I had known how slow it is but im just surprised at how fast my netbook is compared to hers. I am giving her my 60gb OCZ vertex drive. I am hoping this makes things more peppy. Graphics arent that bad with the Nvidia ION (9400m). I think the OCZ Vertex will give it the pep it needs. I know it really helped my netbook out.
jeremyshaw
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Only the desktop atoms support 64bit.
But it will be just as slow (though I believe there are better drivers for 64bit).
But it will be just as slow (though I believe there are better drivers for 64bit).
I regularly have my coding tools, web browser with 20+ tabs, mail client, webserver, database server, music player and a few other random apps (sometimes even Photoshop Elements) running on my NC10 netbook, and it doesn't "choke" with the exception of said Flash videos (those are a pain in the butt) and if actually trying to do something demanding with said PSE.
Copyright, what kind of SSD do you have in your netbook? Is it a stock one or an aftermarket upgrade? The stock ones are usually slow as hell, if anything. But if it's a good aftermarket one, that can make all the difference.
Atom is equivalent to about a 300MHz P-M. It's a slug. Forget "netbooks" - get a ULV Core 2 Solo or Core 2 Duo, if you want battery life and decent speed. Barely any price difference, speed is much more reasonable and the keyboard isn't crammed.
I'm using a 13" Acer SU3500 based laptop and it rocks! 3.5 lbs, 8+ hour battery life is no joke. 14" version is .7lbs heavier, but includes an optical drive. I had the 14" briefly and like the size and weight of the 13" much better. Display is the same resolution, either way.
I'm using a 13" Acer SU3500 based laptop and it rocks! 3.5 lbs, 8+ hour battery life is no joke. 14" version is .7lbs heavier, but includes an optical drive. I had the 14" briefly and like the size and weight of the 13" much better. Display is the same resolution, either way.
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jeremyshaw
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Cool...
Now what OS are you using?
I have Photoshop CS4, while it isn't 'slower' or 'less snappy', when doing any filters, brushes, etc, the thing just dies or somthing...
I have Windows 7 (x32 RTM... MSDNAA ftw?), and even the n10j, with a decent nvidia gpu to offload crap, cannot keep up with just basic email and the occasional photoshop.
Then, I also have a 12.1" Dell M1210 that I 'upgraded' from.
The only thing I feel happy about is I kept my Dell.
But then... fast is subjective, isn't it?
Copyright, I've got a question for you since you mentioned flipping between pages seemed to choke the ATOM ..
Does scrolling web pages feel sloppy, with a slight delay and or stutter? I'm asking since I tossed Win7 64bit on a AMD x2 939 system and everything felt good except for web browsing (IE8). It was slow to scroll, even through [H] forums, there's nothing graphical here, and it chugged. Some sites seemed better than others, but overall, all felt worse than XP and what I last remeber from Vista when I had it on there. Felt as if there was a 1/4 second delay from moving the scroll wheel to getting the screen to move. Anything like this with your build?
Does scrolling web pages feel sloppy, with a slight delay and or stutter? I'm asking since I tossed Win7 64bit on a AMD x2 939 system and everything felt good except for web browsing (IE8). It was slow to scroll, even through [H] forums, there's nothing graphical here, and it chugged. Some sites seemed better than others, but overall, all felt worse than XP and what I last remeber from Vista when I had it on there. Felt as if there was a 1/4 second delay from moving the scroll wheel to getting the screen to move. Anything like this with your build?
jeremyshaw
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Try seeing if your mouse needs drivers.
I know my touchpad, without the Synaptics drivers, just isn't the same...
I know my touchpad, without the Synaptics drivers, just isn't the same...
Windows 7 RC. Haven't installed the RTM version on it yet. And before that used XP for the first couple of weeks. I did install a 2GB RAM stick when I changed to Windows 7, as 1GB didn't quite cut it with my usage habits.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I guess I should have mentioned the same thing happens when using the arrow keys or pgup/down keys.
Yeha the web pages scroll a bit funny. I am using the desktop style setup wtih the Asus ATom 330 ION mobo. The graphic benchmarks are pretty dang good. Also there is no way this is an equivalent of a PII 300mhz. Ive owned one and doubt it would score a 3.3 on Windows 7. Obviously 64bit is working as thats what I installed. Seems more of a video driver issue then anything else. The OS boots quick. The SSD I have to install is an OCZ Vertex 60gb with 1.30 firmware. This really made my netbook snappy so I am hoping it does the same for my moms machine. Probably going there today to install it all.
If you look at, for example, Passmark benchmark results, those put the Atom 330 at the same performance level as Athlon 64 4000+ or Pentium 4 3.8GHz (I had an A64 3700+ up 'til January '08!). Obviously it's not an exact indicator, and in a single-threaded application both the Athlon and the Pentium would destroy the Atom.
Well I did a fresh install of win7 on the vertex 60gb ssd drive. Wow does it make a difference. Windows 7 rates the drive a 7.1 on the experience index. Atto shows read speeds of 220mb/s and write speeds 160mb/s. Whats odd is if I put the controller in AHCI mode it would boot up and say drive incompatable. I think this will be resolved with later releases of firmware. I also did a small OC to 1.86ghz that brought the CPU performance index in Win7 to 3.6 from the 3.3 of stock. This also raised the ram and video performance scores also. It's finally not that bad!
for all the years i have been in this hobby, harddrives have always been magnitudes slower then the rest of the parts. especially the 500mhz days with only 80gb slow as snails drives that were available... those systems took forever to install games and other general app use. i have always preached back then that if harddrives could be about 10x quicker across the read/write/seek board then you would see an incredible performance boost in windows. that's finally here with the newest ssd's and i actually expect now that storage access will eventually become transparent to system speed (we will be using some sort of lightbeam storage, it will be instantaneous)
That's about how my setup is.. RAID 0 SSD for OS, games and apps.. and a lot of mechanical storage. It is nice. I have used a couple SSD drives and the Intel so far has felt the best even though the write speed is slower then the others.
I have an Atom 330 that I use for a HTPC for Netflix, Hulu, Joost, and some vintage gaming. I run Win7 64 RTM on it and it works well for this. But I wouldn't try running 3d games or anything too crazy on it, its a low power small form factor system. In my opinion it does what it was designed to do very well.
jeremyshaw
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Hulu... at what resolution?
I tried Hulu on an ION setup once, and it just got slaughtered.
Not to say ION is bad, but every once in a while, I start feeling it's limits sneaking up on me.
I tried Hulu on an ION setup once, and it just got slaughtered.
Not to say ION is bad, but every once in a while, I start feeling it's limits sneaking up on me.
High-def streams (or 480p and up) on Hulu are indeed the problem with the Atom processors. My niece has netbook that has no problem playing Hulu 480p streams in WinXP at the native res of only 1024x600 but, if we try to scale that up to a higher res on a larger screen, it chokes and dies. This is where the Atom-based Ion falls flat for media playback because Flash video cannot as yet take advantage of GPU hardware acceleration.
I'd like to see the new LV and ULV processors hit the market for use in mini-ITX motherboards soon or see an updated version of the Atom core that can handle flash video. It would be great if the Adobe folks would make Flash more GPU friendly or another product that can actually take advantage of all the great GPU hardware now available would become the standard.
jeremyshaw
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Overclocking the Atom...
dear me!
I underclock, on principle, and never overclock (I hate system fan noise...)
Its an atom with a Nexus 80mm running 800rpm overclocked running cool.. Read the reviews these things running at 2ghz really helps. Underclock on principle? Fk did I drift into the soft forum?
jeremyshaw
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No, I just like my systems to run cooler (whoever thinks sunny California is cool...[well that depends on where you live]).
Still, I have started to hate fan noise, and in SFF/ITX systems, I have to be careful not to push PSU limitations.
An ASUS ION, huh?
Anand overclocked his 330 to 1.92GHz and still had basically unwatchable HD Hulu when scaled to just 720p. Good luck with a 1080p display... I think Intel and Nvidia were totally unprepared for this factor in the HTPC market and were so focused on H.264, VC1, mpeg and divx acceleration that they didn't even give flash video serious thought.
I predict a beefed up version of the Atom or one of the new ULV processors to be a successor before the end of the year. I hope they make something that will work on an existing ITX platform or come out with an integrated ITX solution by December...
You cant hear a nexus running 800rpm unless you have your ear jammed into the fan its self. I am pretty sure you have a/c so I cant imagine why where you live matters. It's an Atom they dont exactly run hot by nature.
jeremyshaw
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I have A/C (CA electricity is NOT cheap!).
I'm now interested in Nexus fans! My primary system fan (HP Slimline in my signuature) is a TaiSol cooler (later models used a more effective ASUS brand fan), that either:
moves a sub 20 cfm
or
is just noisey because it loves to be. (grrr?)
I'll look heavily into nexus, now.
EDIT: and I like the black/white accent on one of them.
I'm thinking:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835610002&cm_re=nexus-_-35-610-002-_-Product
for the main CPU fan, and
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817996012&cm_re=nexus-_-17-996-012-_-Product
for a HDD fan (do I even need one?), in the small clearance on the system (there are mounts for a 2.5" or a case fan there... cost cutting?).
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jeremyshaw
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And the Atom is not capable of out of order execution!
The VIA Nano, despite being single core on a 65nm process (same clock speed, though that may not mean much at times), matched and exceded the Atom in a series of tests, except for multithreaded tasks
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=na...8&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=f25fc10d,a1f28b51
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/reviews/2008/07/atom-nano-review.ars
http://hothardware.com/Articles/VIA_Nano_L2100_vs_Intel_Atom_230_Head_to_Head/
though a slightly higher (5-20W) power draw, combined with a higher FSB and 1MB L2 cache most likely (or absolutely) were bigger factors in making a difference.
Perhaps this will ensure Intel's next Atom series is going to be comparable to e1000 Celerons! (fingers crossed and hoping!).
The VIA Nano, despite being single core on a 65nm process (same clock speed, though that may not mean much at times), matched and exceded the Atom in a series of tests, except for multithreaded tasks
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=na...8&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=f25fc10d,a1f28b51
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/reviews/2008/07/atom-nano-review.ars
http://hothardware.com/Articles/VIA_Nano_L2100_vs_Intel_Atom_230_Head_to_Head/
though a slightly higher (5-20W) power draw, combined with a higher FSB and 1MB L2 cache most likely (or absolutely) were bigger factors in making a difference.
Perhaps this will ensure Intel's next Atom series is going to be comparable to e1000 Celerons! (fingers crossed and hoping!).
jeremyshaw, I don't know how good Nexus fans are in general, but I can say that the D12SL 120mm fans are indeed quiet. Even at 12V they're quite silent, much more so at 7V or 5V. Both the 120mm fans in my SG03 are going to be D12SLs (of the mentioned black+white variety) for that reason.
Apparently the 80mm versions (SP802512L-03) should be very good as well, also available in the b&w look.
Apparently the 80mm versions (SP802512L-03) should be very good as well, also available in the b&w look.
I guess I should have specified hte overclocking really helps just daily activity like surfing the web etc. Flipping between multiple windows and workign on multiple projects really became faster after bumping up the overclock. I havent tried Hulu though. There are a lot of great fans out there and Nexus is one of them. Spend some time on Silent PC Review and you can learn a lot about keeping your system cool and silent. As for the other poster your DS12SL fan is made by Yate Loon which is the same ppl who make the Nexus fans.
jeremyshaw
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Cool!
After removing my graphics card, my case is FAR cooler, as the card blocks (somewhat), a large strip of air intakes near the bottom of the case.
I was looking into forced air cooling, but any 40mm fan (only ones that would fit in the area) I could find was reviewed as 'too noisey', 'failure prone' and/or 'not enough cfm'.
It is rather impressive there is a whole community devoted to silencing computers.
I didn't know the Atom could be overclocked (at the time), and might, might of possibly tried overclocking if I knew, but the HP Slimline thread (on [H]) drew me in, just as I was giving up on the ION setup being a decent HTPC (in my sense, as I always had trouble getting DXNA working [probably just my general ignorance at the time]).
A couple of months later, I looked into the ION again, but there were rumors of an 'ION2' comming about, along with the Atom line about to get a serious refresh this winter/spring (actually, I'm hoping for underclocked Celeron E1000/E3000 type CPU!), pushed me away for the time being.
Thank you for the info (and the eye-opener)!
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Well it's branded and sold as Nexus (here), so that's what I refer to it as, given it's all I know
As long as it's good, manufacturer doesn't matter much crazyassazian
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Anand overclocked his 330 to 1.92GHz and still had basically unwatchable HD Hulu when scaled to just 720p. Good luck with a 1080p display... I think Intel and Nvidia were totally unprepared for this factor in the HTPC market and were so focused on H.264, VC1, mpeg and divx acceleration that they didn't even give flash video serious thought.
I predict a beefed up version of the Atom or one of the new ULV processors to be a successor before the end of the year. I hope they make something that will work on an existing ITX platform or come out with an integrated ITX solution by December...
Flash 10.1 is going to support hardware acceleration from the graphics card. They even demoed it on a Palm Pre. Let's hope it runs as good as the video. I'm stuck deciding between getting a ION-powered netbook or that Core i7 MSI laptop that's coming out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpI6gA9cuME&feature=related
Yep. I know. I already posted about this myself here: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1034710133&postcount=16