![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
ATi vs. NV --- Availability, Plenty of X1900's, very few 7900's
- Thread starter fallguy
- Start date
PRIME1 said:If there were not so many problems with the ATI cards, maybe people would not be clearing the shelves of NVIDIA cards.
Many people systems can't handle the heat and power draw of a XTX and don't need the couple extra fps for the cost.
I bet NVIDIA could double their production of 7900GT's and they would still be hard to find.
Does ATI have an AEG? Because the thread title sounds like a sales pitch
Ah well. good luck with that, most people have been able to find the card even in its short supply. Since "fallguy" was never going to buy one anyways, I'm not sure why he is soooo upset.
Your made an idiotic post NOT based in reality.
Many, including me, waited for nvidia and nvidia never produced. Now I am running an XTX because it was available. I've had no problems with it, it seriously kicks ass, has better IQ than the 6800 I was borrowing, and aparantly, the 7900GTX doesn't beat its performance in half the games reviewed, they are pretty much neck and neck.
razor1 said:
Wrong time? The same time frame of the 7800 series release, there was not shortage of cards. And prices were below MSRP, not above. ATi lost a sale to me because the X1800XT was late. Likewise, NV lost two card sales to me, because the GTX's were hard to fine, and over MSRP. You can find a GT, or GTX. Most people like a certain brand, for whatever reason. With quantity so low, its hard to get the one you want. And I have a "Just say no!" policy to paying over MSRP...
razor1 said:What? The 7900 gtx will have to take up more then 2 slots to cover the sata 1 and sata 2 on this board, I just got one
I should have been more clear. The second card in SLI blocks two of the four SATA ports. A owner of such a setup posted a thread, and a pic in the NV sub forum. I dont have a link for it, you can probably search for it and find it.
PRIME1 said:
What is your link supposed to prove? The GTO launched on time, in fact, before the release date. There is no shortage of X1800 or X1900 cards, like there is for the 7900 series. That article was proven to be pretty ignorant. They claimed there was only one place to get a X1800XT 256MB. The same day that was posted, I linked several others that carried it. The obviously just used a "price grabber", which doesnt come close to catching everything. ATi is doing MUCH MUCH better than NV on availability, there is no denying this unless you are over the top bias. (or just plain uninformed)
Yes both shimmer, however NV shimmers much worse. Ive used both highend, have you? Read the [H] 7900 eval if you dont want to take my word for it.
So now someone cant make a post like this, without taking a check from someone? Please. Your posts are going to be ignored unless you drop the tude. Not a threat, just saying.
Where do you see people selling over msrp? Only the overclocked ones are going for more then MSRP.
So you don't have first hand or even second hand experience with this. Come on. Its a tight fit, just have to get some sata cables where the locks and connectors aren't too long, the motherboard comes with sata cables that work just fine. Some of the uv sata cables specifically Thermaltakes, are a bit too big. No one has complained about this at all, other then the one person you mentioned, wonder why, 15 bucks for sata cables that work, or using the sata cables supplied with the motherboard isn't much when spending 2 to 3 k for a system. And yes you have to put the sata cables in before you put the card in. What I did was install one harddrive, put the card in, Installed everything, then took the card out, put the second sata cable in, then installed the card in. Everything went fine.
fallguy said:
Click ignore. I did, twice. You and BBA.
This forum has been doing pretty well without these kind of !!!!!! pissing matches. So I will click ignore as you should and move on.
I agree to disagree.
Seems just about everyone who wanted a 7900 got one. While Newegg is a great store they are not the only one on the planet, if they run out there are other stores with stock.
razor1 said:
Not accorrding to newegg. They have all ten 7900GT's over $300. So does ZZF, and MonarchPC.
razor1 said:
No I do not have first had expierence with it. The picture I saw made it pretty clear. Maybe it was a bad angle. He said it blocks them, and the pic sure looked like it did. As I said, its in the NV sub forums if you want to take a look. If I am wrong, I am wrong. He said it blocked them, and supplied a pic that appeared to back him up. There wasnt any mention in any review, so I didnt have a "second opinion". It was enough for me.
edit, here is the link. Looks like its just one blocking, I guess my memory isnt as good as it once was.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1029481&highlight=7900GTX
fallguy said:
Well its a tight fit, I know I just put a system together, the first pci-e slot is for the main graphics card aways, doesn't matter if its a SLI system or not
, just have to bend the sata cable to the side in a 90 degree angle.Newegg has 4 not over clocked 7900 gt's going for over msrp, one 9 bucks and the others 30 bucks. Not that bad. A bit of price gauging but still none of them are in stock.
Try price grabber,
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_attrib.php/page_id=5/form_keyword=7900
Quite a few in stock, and selling around MSRP.
Even wierdier is PNY seems to always be in stock, this is very unusual.
BTW lower in that thread, there is a guy in there they says the same think I just did
. Ya know what they say, hear what you want to hear.....BBA said:
I can't believe you and fallguy are still at it.
You can't pick 3 days out of a week and say "look, no cards" only a few weeks after launch...
You guys are just trashing nvidia because you're ati fans...and that's the only reason...you're not fooling anyone...it's not like you're out to do some service to the community by raising awareness about this "shortage" you've dreamed up...you're just bitching for the sake of bitching.
There's no way you can pass judgement on the supply of 7900s for at least another month...so how about you let it go till then...since clearly there are cards in stock if you take 5 minutes to look...
Dan_D said:
You got that backward. The price is high as a result of stock being low.
Why so high? There is a sucker born every minute...and they know there are so few of the cards that they can rape the idiots willing to pay exorbitant amounts for a less capable card.
^eMpTy^ said:
Three months for the 6800 Ultra.
Two months for the 7800 GTX 512.
Sorry man...now the 7900 is not available in sufficient quantity shows a definite supply / production problem. There is absolutely no argument about one can make to say there is no supply problem..
PRIME1 said:Well now B uilt B y A ti. You have been pimpin ATI since before the 7900/X1900 came out so I guess I'm not too convinced of your story.
You havent been around the internet very long or you would know exactly what it means.
The whole built by ati was coined years after BBA was here. But I guess you base all your arguments on assumptions you know nothing about.
Sucks to be you, you have a hard road ahead.
Maybe he doesn't want to spend as much on a psu as you Ackmed. Maybe he can't. Either way, your comment is rude and uncalled for.fallguy said:pxc, you really use that crappy of a PSU? Hope it doesnt blow on you, and take you PC with it.
So here it is another day, and Ackmed/Emilee/Fallguy/Etc. is on one of the many, many boards he posts negative nVidia, and positive ATI info on. No agenda there, just helping us to realize neweggs stock, right Ackie?fallguy said:
You have no way of knowing any of this, why is it we're supposed to care about your baseless speculation again?fallguy said:
Unless you have them to sell to us, why are you even bothering with this thread?fallguy said:
fallguy said:
Gasp! Oh well, that and $.50 gets me coffee at McDonalds. I find a lot of what you do to be hypocritical, and the fact that you think the people you're calling hypocrites care what you say laughable.Blahblahblah.fallguy said:
The fact of the matter is you are all over the net, all day, every day, making pro ATI, anti nVidia posts. You're either independently wealthy, or just doing your job. Either way, you need a better hobby. Might take up fishing...
Firebat said:
I would almost take offense to that...I am loyal to no one but my wife. I buy the fasted thats available...regardless of brand. If Matrox came out with a better card...I'd buy it.
Nope...not at all, in fact, I was an avid nvidia supporter. I put money on several nvidia cards, had every one from the original TNT to the GF FX, and the top of the line models at that.
I have ordered the top end card from both manufacturers ever since. ATi just happenned to be able to supply where nvidia could not.
But, it is true the ATi has better IQ, I can say that first hand. No comparison.
I don't like canadians better than anyone else...I am always pulling for nvidia, they just happenned to screw up ever since they killed 3dfx and hired the 3dfx techs.
I dont really know if this is case, but i think that SLI being mature and available in card/mobo form since the 68 series has lead to the build up of NV users. I think that having SLI out and running for people made a big difference in first mover position. Essentially NV did a partial lockout against ATI. Once you choose a platform its a lot costly to switch back and forth since both crossfire/SLI arent compatible with each others card. So basically from the get go, your choosing sides. If you went from 68 ultras in SLI, chances are, you went 7800 sli and prolly going 7900 sli if you havent done already. This also pertains to single card users as well. I know their are tons of ppl with SLI boards just because they choose to get one off that bat, upgrading from a different socket, or when they were considering upgrading later to sli. Whether or not they did isnt really relevant, just having the option to go sli was good enough for some to go nf4 sli.
Now this brings us to ATI, slow release of crossfire and crossfire cards meant that buyers had no real choice, Even choosing a single card would mean no dual card option. If compared single cards to their counterparts, there is no dominant winner that blew the other away like 15% of more in performance. So largely they are the same as where one is better than the other in areas and vice versa. Now personally, Im a single card user who looks at the total package. I look at performance from an IQ,FPS standpoint as well as price,cooling,noise,power consumption. Alot of people claim that ATI has better IQ than NV but its loud,hot and eats power. Thats a major turnoff to me. If i was given a choice where one was cooler,quiet and took less power, id get that and sacrafice up to 10fps if i still could get 60+ in my current setup.
so there you have it, lots of people taking the overall better package, NV, IMO, over the one trick pony. Build that up for serveral revisions and now you go tons more wanting one over the other. Is the short supply of 79 series due to lack of production or increased demand? i dunno. But i have observed more rigs being sli now in their sigs as opposed to before as more and more games become SLI optimized and in order to get all the eye candy on all the new humugo monitors, dual card solution is the only way to go. Hell, the increased trend for sli may have a big effect on supply of the 79 series, that and all these 21,24,30in WS monitors. Sometimes i think im the only one still on 12x10 17in
Now this brings us to ATI, slow release of crossfire and crossfire cards meant that buyers had no real choice, Even choosing a single card would mean no dual card option. If compared single cards to their counterparts, there is no dominant winner that blew the other away like 15% of more in performance. So largely they are the same as where one is better than the other in areas and vice versa. Now personally, Im a single card user who looks at the total package. I look at performance from an IQ,FPS standpoint as well as price,cooling,noise,power consumption. Alot of people claim that ATI has better IQ than NV but its loud,hot and eats power. Thats a major turnoff to me. If i was given a choice where one was cooler,quiet and took less power, id get that and sacrafice up to 10fps if i still could get 60+ in my current setup.
so there you have it, lots of people taking the overall better package, NV, IMO, over the one trick pony. Build that up for serveral revisions and now you go tons more wanting one over the other. Is the short supply of 79 series due to lack of production or increased demand? i dunno. But i have observed more rigs being sli now in their sigs as opposed to before as more and more games become SLI optimized and in order to get all the eye candy on all the new humugo monitors, dual card solution is the only way to go. Hell, the increased trend for sli may have a big effect on supply of the 79 series, that and all these 21,24,30in WS monitors. Sometimes i think im the only one still on 12x10 17in
R1ckCa1n said:
Well how are we really defining a "supply problem" here. The 6800 Ultra for a couple months had a "supply problem"...the x800xtpe for pretty much its entire lifespan had a "supply problem"... the FX 5800Ultra had a "supply problem"...
You can buy 7900s right now, this very minute, for MSRP, so what the hell is the big problem that this thread has gone on for 7 pages about?
ITSTHINKING
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2006
- Messages
- 1,260
Just thought I'd say that when I got my 7900gtx from Monarch I had no problems finding one and I didn't have to wait. I placed the order the day it became available. It's a Pny which many of you say suck but I love it. I got it brand new and shipped for 479.00 Thats really cheap. Although the following monday (3 days later) it went up to 529.00 which I still would have payed for. And it did quite well @ oc'ing (for stock cooling) It's running stable as hell @ 683/1722. Could probably go higher but no need, I'm happy, and got it for 20 dollars cheaper than pretty much everyone else thanks to my lucky timing
fallguy said:pxc, you really use that crappy of a PSU? Hope it doesnt blow on you, and take you PC with it.
So here it is another day, and newegg still doesnt have a single 7900GT or GTX. In fact, they've dropped from 11 different GTX's, down to 8 cards to choose from. Out of stock, and less cards to choose from? Thats hardly a good sign.
Once again, for the people who dont bother to read, I never said you couldnt get a 7900GT/GTX. You can. But when Best Buy doesnt even list them, when they had the 7800 series the day of release, thats a step backwards. So is the much diminished quantity of 7900 cards, compared to the 7800 cards at this point of release. The 7800 series was never sold out like this, and its my opinion that they sold more 7800's, than 7900's. Mainly because the 7800 series really had no competition for several months.
Newegg for the second day, doesnt have a single 7900GT or GTX. ZipZoomFly has 3 GT's, and no GTX's. MonarchPC also doest have a single GT, or GTX in stock. With the ETA two weeks away for more of them. Does everyone agree that those are three of the best and biggest e-stores for PC parts? If between them all, they have three 7900GT's and no GTX's in stock, how in the world can there not be a supply issue?
NV had a very, very, very good release of the 7800GT/GTX cards. They were in mass quantity the day of release online, and in retail stores such as Best Buy. And even more, they never sold out like this, and the price was lower a month after release, not higher. Another clue that the 7800 release was much better than the 7900 release. With the 7800 GTX 512MB release, and now the 7900 series release, they have takes huge steps backwards. Which is all I am saying. Not that the cards are bad, not that they are not a good choice, none of that. Just the simple fact that this release, is far from the release of the 7800 series. ATi got a LOT of bad press for lack of availability on certain sites. Now that the tables have turned, hardly a peep about NV's problems. And I just find that hypocritical.
For those of you accusing me on not even wanting a NV cards, you dont have a clue. Two weeks ago I was on a A8N32-SLI and 2x BFG 7800GTX's. It would have been MUCH easier for me to get just two new 7900GTX's, than to replace my motherboard, and get Crossfire. However, since the GTX's were sold out at my usual sites (ZZF&Monarch), and the ones that were listed, were above MSRP, it wasnt that attractive. But the final straw was, a 7900GTX blocks 2 out of the 4 SATA ports on the A8N32, making them unusable. Of course no review mentions this, I got lucky and saw a post with a pic of this issue. So do not assume so much. Most people here like to talk the talk, and dont even come close to buying a $500+ card, let a lone two. I back it up my opinions with buying actual cards.
So you're basing your entire argument of a supply problem off of one e-retailer?
Best buy doesn't SELL the 7900 series. At all. And yeah, the 7800 series sold out, but only for about a week, but at the same time, there weren't as many companies trying to offer special versions of them, and I'd submit that that has a small portion of the cause as well (yield issues with overclocked cards).
Yes, those are the three big ones, but they get them in FAR more often than teir ETA... I've seen monarch go from stock to no stock 3 times in a week before. Same for newegg.
There is hardly a peep for NV this time because you CAN find the cards. ATi got shit because you'd order a card and not recieve it for FOUR months. 2 weeks backorder, or FOUR MONTHS. 14 days, or 120... THAT's the difference. From ANY site. you couldn't get an X800XTPE anywhere if you wanted it... for months at a time. You can get a 7900GT, you just have to wait a day or two or get it from a different place.
lopoetve said:
Did you read my post? I used newegg as the primary example, because its what [H] uses in evaluations to discuss price and availability. Notice that banner above? Its neweggs. I also mentioned ZZF, and MonarchPC. I believe those to be the biggest and best three e-stores for PC parts, in the US.
You are correct, BB doesnt sell the 7900 series. Which is what I said. They did sell the 7800 series, and had cards in at launch. WHich further proves my point that NV has taken steps backwards, as far as availability is concerned.
lopoetve said:
I didnt say MSRP on all of those GT's was $300. However, some of them are. And they are all over MSRP. Same goes for the cards on ZZF, and MonarchPC. All I did was refute the claim that only the overclocked versions are selling over MSRP. Its simply not true.
I dont know why some of you are so upset. The simple fact is, the 7900 launch is not as good as the 7800 launch. Less cards, higher prices, and less stores carry them. This is going backwards. They did such a great 7800 launch, perhaps its hard to do it again. They also launched just one card at a time with the 7800 launch, perhaps thats part of the reason, I dont know. What I do know is, that this is bad for the consumers. And if you dont think its bad, well then you dont see it as I do.
razor1 said:
Did you even read my post? I never EVER said there was or was not an supply issue. Emtpy siad: "but it's not because nvidia is having supply issues, it's because they're selling like hotcakes" and tried to point out that supply issues and not meeting demain is a thin line. Again lots of people would say if you can not meat your demain, you have a supply issue. Any time people that want to buy your product and can not, its a bad thing.
razor1 said:This isn't the same thing as xbox 360, so no you can't take your arguement and compare it to the xbox 360
And once again I did not say it was. I even captialized why I stated it was ALMOST like it just based on Empty's same statements. Again was not saying they were just using an example of where not meeting demain is a bad thing. We dont have to use xbox360 as any highly demain consumer products show the same thing, IPODs, Cameras, TV, ect.....
John Reynolds
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2003
- Messages
- 203
Firingsquad's Oblivion benchmark article has a comment that claims there's a 7900 GT shortage going on. For whatever that's worth (insider knowledge or just an off-handed opinion thrown out).
Jbirney said:
Wouldn't say its a bad thing when there is left over stock. Writing off inventory could be a much worse scenario, like what ATi has been doing (getting almost no profits for some of thier higher end chips by using them in lower high end sku's also hurt them). Money lost when you should have had is much worse then money not gained immediately. Short term vs. Long term goals are very important for future growth. The problem with the xbox 360 is quite different, demand was high in the beginning compared to supply, but now its the opposite, MS should have been able to corner the market, but games being released on the 360 seem not to target the greater audiance during its lauch, this hurt thier long term sales. Intial sales will always be there for a good product, long term sales depend on support. So having great supply is good for a launch, but not that neccassary. PS 2's are now outselling xbox 360's, that is what is not good for long term sales of the xbox 360. Looking at market saturation will give you a better picture of who is getting what and bottem line and top line margins. Not immidiate supply of product when products are going in and out of stock. Now you can say well nV isn't getting as much sales as they could. But the turn around is there is no excessive stock, prices are higher on the parts they do have in stock, they make more money per part which will offset the possible loss in sales of not having enough stock. Then there is very little left over stock, which is a big plus at the end of this gpu cycle.
ivzk said:
Yeah but these were cards that were brought to market to get rid of old NV40 stock that didn't cut the mustard...ATi has been cutting down high end chips just to come up with something for the midrange...and they just did it again with the X1800GTO...
I think it's very fair to say ATi has more of a problem here than nvidia, especially in this latest generation...it's great for the consumer...but it's gotta be cutting into their profit margins like crazy...