![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
ATi vs. NV --- Availability, Plenty of X1900's, very few 7900's
- Thread starter fallguy
- Start date
InorganicMatter said:
I didnt mention Kyle. However, ATi was brought up a few times on the front page for lack of availability, and in evaluations. Such is not the case for NV.
Firebat said:You should have posted this in ATI flavorFallguy ever hear of supply and demand?
No I shouldnt have. It concerns both ATi and NV. Sure I have heard of supply and demand. There is more demand, that supply for the 7900 series. That is not the issue. The issue is that there wasnt as many 7900 series cards available at this point of the launch, than there was for the 7800 series. There is a problem somewhere along the line. And that the tables have turned, and its not NV with availability problems, and not ATi. Yet ATi gets much more flack for it.
Ever even read the thread? Since you obviously didnt, here is a relevant post for you;
Eastcoasthandle
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2006
- Messages
- 1,041
just get the 1900xtx and be done with it.
deal with it!
deal with it!
Good way to look at the current video card situation. I like to take it a step further and see how long it takes to get to brick and mortar stores. The only thing from Nvidia at Frys, MicroCenter, CompUSA is the 7600GS while ATI has X1800's, X1900's at every location. Frys doesn't even seem to be getting fresh shipments of 7800 series cards at this point or they are just not selling. Hell I bought my X1900 Crossfire Edition at MicroCenter (brick and mortar). While I was there they didn't have anything but two 7600GS's and 7800GT's. This, to me, tell us how well a company is providing cards.fallguy said:
I think NV over promised and is under delivering this round. Unless they can ramp up FAST this will be another 7800GTX512 launch. We are only four to six months from their next release so they better hurry!
QFTfallguy said:
The Fry's I go to has 7800GTs, 7800GTXs, 7800GSs, 7300GSs, 7300s, 7600GT and 7600GSs. You can call them at (818) 227-1000. They open in less than an hour.R1ckCa1n said:
That Fry's carries the X1900AIW, X1900XT and X1900XTX (all BBA), and X1600Pro ($250 LOL) and X1300/X1340 cards but no X1800s. None of the more expensive cards move at all since they're at list price, and in ATI cards' cases, the old list prices. I've seen the same 2 X1900XTX cards on the shelf since they were put there a couple of weeks ago. Yep, X1900 cards showed up at Fry's B&M long after they were released.
the one notable difference I see here is this:
when you look to the X800PE and the like, cards of ANY brand were almost impossible to find, were massively overpriced, and sold out for weeks at a time. The horror stories of waiting 4 months and then never seeing a card are far too common.
With the 7900 series, cards go in and out of stock daily (regular shipments), and at pretty much ANY given point in time, you can find ~a~ card from some store online. It may not be the particular version/clock that you want (which is an issue for the individual OEM's, not Nvidia), but you CAN find a card. And even for the specifically clocked ones, you can find any of them within a day or two, if you keep your eyes open.
Supply isn't keeping up with demand, but there IS supply.
when you look to the X800PE and the like, cards of ANY brand were almost impossible to find, were massively overpriced, and sold out for weeks at a time. The horror stories of waiting 4 months and then never seeing a card are far too common.
With the 7900 series, cards go in and out of stock daily (regular shipments), and at pretty much ANY given point in time, you can find ~a~ card from some store online. It may not be the particular version/clock that you want (which is an issue for the individual OEM's, not Nvidia), but you CAN find a card. And even for the specifically clocked ones, you can find any of them within a day or two, if you keep your eyes open.
Supply isn't keeping up with demand, but there IS supply.
Bona Fide said:Some people...
In all fairness, the 7900 series was a big hit with consumers. nVidia was stupid not to anticipate this and stock up.
Why do you think they limited the numbers on purpose? I doubt they did that. In my opinion they just couldnt make enough. Which was not the case for the 7800 series. The 7900 series has a size drop, and faster memory. Could be one, or both of those affected how many they could get out.
R1ckCa1n, I have noticed that too. I have never seen a 7800GTX 256MB or 512MB at CompUSA, or BB. The fastest I saw was a 7800GT on the shelf. We dont have a Frys sadly. Have not seen any 7900 models yet. But they do both have the X1800 and X1900's.
pxc, CompUSA had the X1900XT's before the launch date. Do you really think thats the same two X1900XTX's on the shelf for two weeks? What did you do, mark them to make sure? Unless I am blind (could be) Best Buy doesnt even list the 7900's. The fastest NV card they have, is the 7800GTX, which is (to quote you) $600 "LOL". Another area where NV is lacking, is the retail chains. ATi is there, NV is not as much. Its been that way for a while now, but that too gets overlooked by some sites.
Fry's uses straps around the boxes in a + pattern. The crush pattern is pretty unique.fallguy said:
----
About the 7800GTX 512MB: you have a legitimate gripe. Those cards just were rarely available shortly after launch, then finally disappeared. But there's a difference between the 7800GTX 512 and the 7900 cards. I can order a 7900GT or 7900GTX today from several different online stores and have it by Tuesday. Availability may be tight, but cards are still available if you look around. And if you look at other sites like Monarch, ETA for many 7900GT or 7900GTX cards is this week or next week.
And to delve into speculation like you have, nvidia probably could have released more 7800GTX 512 cores but chose not to. They had pulled back on all 7800 core availability before the 7900 cards launched. Look what happened to ATI and the X800XT/XT PE and X850XT/XT PE. ATI wrote off huge losses last year on those parts over at least 2 quarters. When was the last time nvidia wrote off any sizeable high end inventory? Years ago, IIRC.
Hard launches do seem to have dips in availability for the higher end parts as a down side, at least from the 7800 and 7900 launches. But that's not much data to make a conclusion about.
^eMpTy^ said:
My X1900XTX is pretty darn quiet. In fact, I only hear it when I start the PC, it speeds up for about 3 seconds and then is quiet. Have heard a little noise in gameplay, but the system fans make is a wash.
Now...the 6800 GT I was borrowing while waiting for the 512 that never came because of nvidia's lack of availability...well, it makes more noise than the X1900XTX.
Anyone want to buy an ECS KN1-SLI Extreme? I need a good motherboard. (That means I want an ATi board now)
Yep, that is where I bought my first X1800XT and X1900XTX, they day of release; which is way more than can be said about a 7800 or 7900 at brick and mortar. Point is NV is not even close to producing enough product for the demand for etailers alone. Makes you wonder if the 7900GTX is another 7800GTX512 release.pxc said:I've seen the same 2 X1900XTX cards on the shelf since they were put there a couple of weeks ago. Yep, X1900 cards showed up at Fry's B&M long after they were released.
Sum it up this way:^eMpTy^ said:
NV can't even supply enough cards for etailers which means brick and mortar shops are screwed. This might change, or it won't but all I know is we are almost a month into release with no cards on shelves and 90% on backorder online. Not to smooth.
fallguy said:
Actually, the die shrink should increase yields, should it not? I understand that faster memory may be harder to procure, but ATI is managing to do it relatively well. I don't understand why nVidia, the larger company, should not be able to.
NV has a supply issue for sure. When 7800 GTX launched there was tons of cards available the day it came out. There never was a tight supply. With 7900 we have not even received all our allocation. OC cards are especially hard to get. We just got confirmation on Friday of some more cards shipping but XFX could not fill all of our order. We took what we could get and were very happy to have it. (Funny thing was to date the 7800 512mb cards were easier to get than 7900 OC cards. Even the XXX 7900 GT cards.)
ATI the X1800 launch was about the same as NV's 7900 launch. Very tight supply. Heck X1800 CF cards only were available in any sort of quantity the week before 1900 launched.
X1900 launch was like 7800 GTX 256MB. We had all the boards we needed. Except for Master cards. They were kind of short on them we the first week (We did have them just not many) but they quickly became easily available.
ATI the X1800 launch was about the same as NV's 7900 launch. Very tight supply. Heck X1800 CF cards only were available in any sort of quantity the week before 1900 launched.
X1900 launch was like 7800 GTX 256MB. We had all the boards we needed. Except for Master cards. They were kind of short on them we the first week (We did have them just not many) but they quickly became easily available.
Bona Fide said:
The die shrink caused ATI tons of trouble too. Think about all the X1800 delays and supply issues. I am sure NV will get it figured out.
BTW ATI and NV are almost the same size. They seem to trade biggest Graphic card company year to year. It is what makes the battle between them so good.
R1ckCa1n said:
I really don't see it that way. ATi launched the x1900xtx at $600, and it wasn't much faster than the x1800xt or 7800gtx 512, and crossfire is still a pain, so supply was decent, but not massive. Who wants to pay $600 for a small upgrade?
Then enter the 7900gtx and gt, the gt is probably the best price/performance card ever made, and the price was way lower than anyone expected.
When a very popular company launches brand new cards that are quiet, cool, fast as hell, and cost $100 less than anyone was expecting, they sell out quickly...I'm simply not shocked by this.
At the absolute worst, you could say that nVidia didn't sit around and build up stock like they did with the 7800gtx because they needed to stay competitive with the x1900s. Demand will eventually slow as everybody gets their card, and stock levels will rise. At this stage of the game it's WAY too early to start calling the cards vaporware. If availability is still spotty in a month, then I'll agree there's an issue.
EDIT: I started a poll to see what the case really is...if there are a ton more X1000 series cards out there than 7900s, I'll agree there's a problem...
The 7900 is a huge upgrade for me. I am just now catching up with the times. I'm coming from a Gforce4 MX420 I bought for 42bucks. For the actual 7900GT I want I have been waiting for week and a half to order it to date. At least I know when the next shipments are due to arrive.
Lord_Exodia said:Not really, nvidia is outselling ati dramatically. That's why they can't keep the cards in stock, it's not yeild problems. Or anything of the sort. It could be because of SLi, the fan problems on XTX temp problems etc. Not many people are [H]ard enough to fix those type of issues and just plug the card in and go. Those people woudl be wise to choose a 7900GTX over a X1900XTX card. Besides that the 2 cards are neck and neck when it comes to performance. Also for their profits and sales you can check their stock reports. both releast new reports NV is doing much better
Glad to know you have sales figures for these cards. According to
ati as reported on b3d sales of the x1900 line are good. Time will tell if nv is having yield issues or just rushed their launch. Sure either way they will survive nicely as the main profit seems to be in mid-low end stuff.
^eMpTy^ said:
So now you're labeling me? Funny that.
Yes they have a problem, if you dont think so, then you're just ignoring facts. They dont have enough cards out to meet the demand, thats a problem. If they did, even more would have been sold. I dont think more people want ATi cards, than NV cards. I think NV has a major supply problem, which is fairly obvious if you just look around. Again, this did not happen with the 7800 series after launch.
^eMpTy^ said:
The XTX wasnt much faster than the X1800XT? Do you even read reviews? Sure, in some games its not, however in some, its much, much faster. Making a blanket statement like you did is not a good idea. It didnt have to be faster than the 512MB GTX (which is was) because it was next to impossible to find one, and was at least $200 more than the XTX.
The 7900GT is a lot of card for the money, no doubt about that. However, best of all time? Not hardly. The X1800XT 256MB is cheaper, and generally faster. They both win some, and lose some. You can make a strong arguement for either. Currently newegg has the X1800XT 256MB retail in stock for $289 (512MB for $330). $20 cheaper than the cheapest 7900GT, which isnt even in stock. In fact, no 7900GTs are in stock at newegg right now. Again, the supply problem.
I stand corrected... I got my X1800XT the day before launch and the X1900XTX the day of launch. My bad......pxc said:The X1800 and X1900 were not available at Fry's the day of release. The X1800s showed up relatively soon after launch, but the X1900 didn't.
BullsEyeBob
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2004
- Messages
- 2,661
lol u guys are funny
go play some games on those fancy cards
go play some games on those fancy cards
R1ckCa1n said:Great way to get data on a forum that is 99 percent Nvidia bias..... You might get more accurate data a nvnews
If this forum is so wildly biased...why do you even bother posting here? I think labeling the entire forum as biased is beyond absurd.
AACDIRECT said:
I hope you are trying to say it's not easy to get a 7900 OC...because if you think 7800 512's were easy to get, let me point you to this thread:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=977965&highlight=7800+GTX+512
Just see how many pages of when is my card coming there in that thread. (Hint...99% never came at all)
I said funny that because, you are very far from anything pro-ATi. You may not want to recall when you first reg'd with your pall tranny, but I have not forgotten. So its the pot calling the kettle black. Yes I prefer ATi, as Ive said many times. I do however use whatever is the best, as was the case with 2x7800GTX's. I can impatial. Just because I have a preference, doesnt mean you cant be objective. My post is factual. No matter if you want to admit that, or not.
Can you walk into a Best Buy and buy a X1900XTX? Yes.
Can you walk into a Best Buy and buy a 7900 GTX? No.
Can you walk into a Best Buy and buy a X1900XT? Yes.
Can you walk into a Best Buy and buy a 7900GT? No.
Can you log into a newegg and buy a X1900XTX? Yes.
Can you log into a newegg and buy a 7900GTX? No.
Can you log into a newegg and buy a X1900XT? Yes.
Can you log into a newegg and buy a 7900GT? No.
(this is for 04-02-06 4:30pm)
I think that about sums it up. One of the (if the not the) biggest retail chains, and online stores, dont have any 7900's. Best Buy doesnt even list the 7900 series on their website. If a product isnt available in a huge retail chain like that, they are missing a lot of sales.
Its pretty obvious to me that NV has supply issues, which they didnt have with the 7800 series. Which is all I am getting at. I recall people going and buying a 7800 series the day of launch at BB and other retail stores. The simple fact that BB doesnt even list the 7900 cards, tells me a lot. Believe whatever you want to believe. Im done talking about it with you. Enjoy your day, and God bless!
Can you walk into a Best Buy and buy a X1900XTX? Yes.
Can you walk into a Best Buy and buy a 7900 GTX? No.
Can you walk into a Best Buy and buy a X1900XT? Yes.
Can you walk into a Best Buy and buy a 7900GT? No.
Can you log into a newegg and buy a X1900XTX? Yes.
Can you log into a newegg and buy a 7900GTX? No.
Can you log into a newegg and buy a X1900XT? Yes.
Can you log into a newegg and buy a 7900GT? No.
(this is for 04-02-06 4:30pm)
I think that about sums it up. One of the (if the not the) biggest retail chains, and online stores, dont have any 7900's. Best Buy doesnt even list the 7900 series on their website. If a product isnt available in a huge retail chain like that, they are missing a lot of sales.
Its pretty obvious to me that NV has supply issues, which they didnt have with the 7800 series. Which is all I am getting at. I recall people going and buying a 7800 series the day of launch at BB and other retail stores. The simple fact that BB doesnt even list the 7900 cards, tells me a lot. Believe whatever you want to believe. Im done talking about it with you. Enjoy your day, and God bless!
^eMpTy^ said:
I think he meant that hocp was the only site (I am aware of) that gave the 7900gtx a clear win. Many would see this as futher proof that hocp has a pro nvidia bias. So if the site is biased, figures that the majority of the folks here would share that bias. Either way who cares? Even the inquirer is now asking why nvidia can't supply cards during a slow sales period. Now kyle's silence on this subject could even be seen as futher proof of bias, but maybe he just enjoys flaming ati.......... whereas nvidia bites back.
fallguy said:
TrannyC and I were never pals...I recall having to distance myself from him on several occasions...cuz that guys a little nuts.
And yes, it's a fact that the cards aren't in stock...but it's not because nvidia is having supply issues, it's because they're selling like hotcakes. This is not a problem, it's completely normal when you're ramping up production of a new chip. The X1900XT's didn't experience issues because nobody bought them. Cuz anyone who wanted something really high-end bought SLi...
I think the poll I started in reference to this says a lot...as of right now the 2 7900s outnumber ALL X1800 and X1900 series cards by 2-to-1. Even though the X1900s launched a month earlier. And that's not even taking into account people who have 7900s running in SLi...
Are the cards not in stock? Yeah, I have eyes, I can see that. Does this mean nvidia is experience some kind of problem? I don't think so, selling out every card you can make seems like a pretty damn good situation to be in.
gostriker said:
Kyle and Brent aren't biased. They never have been. I've been reading their articles long enough to know that.
They recommended the 7900s for the same reason everyone likes them, they're cooler, quieter, and SLi is better than CrossFire.
If you look at the individual benchmarks, the X1900XTX was ahead in several areas...but they recommended the 7900s anyways...and I share their opinion...the X1900XTX is faster overall...but CrossFire consistenly loses to SLi, and the card is hot as hell and makes a lot of noise...for all those negatives, the only positive is a few more fps in a couple games and hqaf...which isn't enough imho...
Wasn't what was implied........ This video card forum is very BIAS. Why do you think they had to split it up into sub forums?gostriker said:
Funny, everyone is discounting the fact you CAN NOT BUY ONE RIGHT NOW LESS THAN A MONTH AFTER LAUNCH. If it showed up at brick and mortar stores and such then yes, it is a good launch with availablity. Since this is not true, what is so hard to understand?
computerpro3
LightningRod
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2003
- Messages
- 8,702
Honestly maybe ive just been lucky personally, but I managed to get a x800xt-pe, 2x pci-e 6800 Ultras, 2x 7800gtx 256, 2x 7800gtx 512mb's, and a 7900gt all within a week of their respective releases. All it took was 20min of searching. If you want one bad enough theres always one on the market.
This has gotta be close to the biggest f.a.n.b.o.i. thread ever. Whether you like ATI or NV (I mean really guys, they are companies, not girlfriends), the simple fact is NV is having supply problems right now, and ATI does get attacked far more regularly here than NV (be it by posters or "others").
LGabrielPhoto
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,240
With all due respect to Ati fans...you really need a reality check if you think ati is selling even close to Nvidia. There is a reason you cant find the 7900 in stores and its not what you claim...its call high demand. They sell too fast cause people is dying to get them unlike the 1900. Truth hurts I know. Lets try not to be blind.