ATi vs. NV --- Availability, Plenty of X1900's, very few 7900's

Yes, but the poll is invalid. It includes X1800 XT, GTO and XL cards which have been around since December. It should simply be X1900 based cards versus 7900 based cards.

But, the fact that there are more 7900's reported than all the X1900 and X1800 cards ATI has sold since December speaks for itself.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Kyle and Brent aren't biased. They never have been. I've been reading their articles long enough to know that.

They recommended the 7900s for the same reason everyone likes them, they're cooler, quieter, and SLi is better than CrossFire.

If you look at the individual benchmarks, the X1900XTX was ahead in several areas...but they recommended the 7900s anyways...and I share their opinion...the X1900XTX is faster overall...but CrossFire consistenly loses to SLi, and the card is hot as hell and makes a lot of noise...for all those negatives, the only positive is a few more fps in a couple games and hqaf...which isn't enough imho...
Click to expand...

But most sites didn't reccomend the 7900gtx over the x1900xtx, actually the reverse is true. Most sites seem to say if you look, ati has better iq. But you do help prove the point that people who like their conclusions (flawed or not) tend to hang out in their forums. The op pointed out that nvidia is not producing enough cards to satisfy their market during a slow sales period. The question; is there a yield issue or not?
:)
 
Single card, the X1900XTX is the one to choose. If you want even more performance than a single card offers, choose SLI and the 7900 since it is a more mature dual card solution. That is the summary most, if not all, sites conclude including [H].
 
BBA said:
What Poll?

I have an XTX and never even saw your poll. I was too busy actually playing games on an ATi instead of waiting for an nvidia card. :D
Click to expand...

spend 5 seconds shopping and you won't be waiting :rolleyes:
 
lopoetve said:
the one notable difference I see here is this:

when you look to the X800PE and the like, cards of ANY brand were almost impossible to find, were massively overpriced, and sold out for weeks at a time. The horror stories of waiting 4 months and then never seeing a card are far too common.

With the 7900 series, cards go in and out of stock daily (regular shipments), and at pretty much ANY given point in time, you can find ~a~ card from some store online. It may not be the particular version/clock that you want (which is an issue for the individual OEM's, not Nvidia), but you CAN find a card. And even for the specifically clocked ones, you can find any of them within a day or two, if you keep your eyes open.

Supply isn't keeping up with demand, but there IS supply.
Click to expand...

no one ever responded to my post, so here we are again... and this is the truth. If you want a 7900GT, you can get one, you just have to look a little bit, and even if you want it from newegg, just wait a day or two and they're back in stock.
 
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=324064

There you guys go. Here's a 7900GT in stock...

Mind you I have never owned an nVidia, but this might be my first one...

Unless I get the $289 Sapphire X1800XT. Still haven't decided.

Anyone know if the Series 2 one here supports the 7900GT? And is the performance worth the extra money? This is a serious, non-biased question, so I would like a clear answer. I have been reading up on some reviews and it seems as though the cards are too identical... though the 7900GT apparently does OC MUCH better...

Thoughts?
 
I agree with the original poster and I am an Nvidia owner and fan. I walked into BestBuy just yesterday and saw a few XTX's, no GTX though. I don't care how many people want a GTX. If Nvidia can't meet the demand, they are having supply problems.

If I had to pick a winner this round it would be ATI. One, because the XT and XTX have had great availability since day one, offered at outstanding prices. Two, although both the GTX and XTX are very comparable in frames per second, ATI has better image quality.

You can't go wrong with either card though.
 
If there were not so many problems with the ATI cards, maybe people would not be clearing the shelves of NVIDIA cards.

Many people systems can't handle the heat and power draw of a XTX and don't need the couple extra fps for the cost.

I bet NVIDIA could double their production of 7900GT's and they would still be hard to find.

Does ATI have an AEG? Because the thread title sounds like a sales pitch :rolleyes:

Ah well. good luck with that, most people have been able to find the card even in its short supply. Since "fallguy" was never going to buy one anyways, I'm not sure why he is soooo upset.
 
gostriker said:
But most sites didn't reccomend the 7900gtx over the x1900xtx, actually the reverse is true. Most sites seem to say if you look, ati has better iq. But you do help prove the point that people who like their conclusions (flawed or not) tend to hang out in their forums. The op pointed out that nvidia is not producing enough cards to satisfy their market during a slow sales period. The question; is there a yield issue or not?
:)
Click to expand...

Really? Let's have a quick look...

AnandTech said:
The NVIDIA solutions use less power, generate less heat, and are cheaper to produce, but what matters in the end is the performance the end user gets for the price he or she pays. Yes, the 7900 GTX performs on par with the X1900 XT and XTX. With ATI's additional features, will NVIDIA's street prices be low enough to entice gamers? We'll have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

HotHardware said:
The cards trade victories depending on the application or specific test configuration. But this situation bodes very well for NVIDIA because the G71 die is significantly smaller than the R580. Even with a much smaller die, comprised of significantly fewer transistors, the G71 competes very favorably with the best ATI currently has to offer. So, not only will NVIDIA likely have higher yields on the G71, but it'll also be less expensive for them to produce G71 relative to R580. This is physics and you just can't defy the laws. This is a very good position for NVIDIA to be in.
Click to expand...

FiringSquad said:
Thanks to its quad-heat pipe cooling solution, the GeForce 7900 GTX runs cooler and quieter than the X1900 XT/XTX boards while NVIDIA’s SLI is clearly more robust than CrossFire but ATI’s got a very competitive part in this segment of the market.
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I said that the [H] recommended the 7900s for the same reason everyone else likes them...there's three more sites that like them for the same reason...and I could easily go on and on but I think you get the idea...

My overall point is that calling the [H] nvidia biased is absurd...and calling this entire forum biased is equally absurd. There's a lot to like about the 7900s, and every major review site has echoed the same sentiments: the gtx is competitive performance-wise, is cooler and quieter, and SLi beats out crossfire. Why is it so shocking that someone would recommend the gtx for those reasons?
 
Can anybody actually give us some sales figures? I'm sure there's someone here knows someone or working for one hardware shop or another.
 
Coolmanluke said:
I agree with the original poster and I am an Nvidia owner and fan. I walked into BestBuy just yesterday and saw a few XTX's, no GTX though. I don't care how many people want a GTX. If Nvidia can't meet the demand, they are having supply problems.

If I had to pick a winner this round it would be ATI. One, because the XT and XTX have had great availability since day one, offered at outstanding prices. Two, although both the GTX and XTX are very comparable in frames per second, ATI has better image quality.

You can't go wrong with either card though.
Click to expand...

BestBuy does not carry the 7900 series cards. So, I guess you won't see that card there.

One interesting note. ATI and NVDIA are basically tied for market share in the discrete GPU market (52% for NVIDIA versus almost 48% for ATI)and overall market share (23% for NVIDIA and 24% for ATI) . The discrete market is the smallest, since 63% of all systems sold use integrated graphics (yikes). That's why Intel is still the market king with 37%, but shrinking.
 
HeavyH20 said:
BestBuy does not carry the 7900 series cards. So, I guess you won't see that card there.
Click to expand...

I remember seeing 6800's up the kazzoo a few gen's back. What happened? Still doesn't explain why the 7900 can't be found in any real quantity from any other vendor.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Really? Let's have a quick look...







I said that the [H] recommended the 7900s for the same reason everyone else likes them...there's three more sites that like them for the same reason...and I could easily go on and on but I think you get the idea...

My overall point is that calling the [H] nvidia biased is absurd...and calling this entire forum biased is equally absurd. There's a lot to like about the 7900s, and every major review site has echoed the same sentiments: the gtx is competitive performance-wise, is cooler and quieter, and SLi beats out crossfire. Why is it so shocking that someone would recommend the gtx for those reasons?
Click to expand...

Lets see anandtech seemed to state that the 7900gtx would have to be priced well to compete. Firingsquad stated
Right now there really is no decisive winner here, your final decision will most likely boil down to what types of games you play on your PC.
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And the other site you quoted seemed to be saying that nvidia will have better yields and therefore make more money. All three of these are quite different than declaring the gtx the winner ... in terms of gameplay and iq. Anyways lets hope that nvidia solves their production problems and can compete to force down prices for all. ;)
 
Coolmanluke said:
I remember seeing 6800's up the kazzoo a few gen's back. What happened? Still doesn't explain why the 7900 can't be found in any real quantity from any other vendor.
Click to expand...

retail sales are almost nonexistant anymore (for top end cards)... so many people buy things online.
 
gostriker said:
Lets see anandtech seemed to state that the 7900gtx would have to be priced well to compete. Firingsquad stated
And the other site you quoted seemed to be saying that nvidia will have better yields and therefore make more money. All three of these are quite different than declaring the gtx the winner ... in terms of gameplay and iq. Anyways lets hope that nvidia solves their production problems and can compete to force down prices for all. ;)
Click to expand...

He never said that they declared it a winner, he said they liked it for heat purposes, because SLi is a more mature product, and because of the smaller die (and thus, eventually, higher yields)
 
lopoetve said:
He never said that they declared it a winner, he said they liked it for heat purposes, because SLi is a more mature product, and because of the smaller die (and thus, eventually, higher yields)
Click to expand...

You took the words right out of my mouth.
 
fall guy, perhalps you can uhh tell me what you were expecting. what happened to harry potter? what happened to lotr? what happened to anything thats new ever! it doesnt matter how much they have in stock it always seems to sellout. always!
 
lopoetve said:
He never said that they declared it a winner, he said they liked it for heat purposes, because SLi is a more mature product, and because of the smaller die (and thus, eventually, higher yields)
Click to expand...

From [H]ocp preview.


If you’ve currently own a X1900 XT or XTX, stick with it. Those are great performing video cards and nothing here is enticing enough to move from them. If however you have an X1800 XT or XL, moving to a GeForce 7900 GTX or GT may give you a good boost in your visual gameplay quality. Or if you’ve got an older Radeon X800 series, the 7900 GT would be great improvement.
Click to expand...

NVIDIA has worked hard to try and produce a more powerful, albeit power-efficient GPU in the 7900 GTX and GT, and they’ve succeeded. They run cooler, are smaller, have less transistors, and they don’t make you stuff cotton in your ears. The 7900 GTX and GT are just more efficient while being lightning fast.
Click to expand...

The gt would give a good gain over the x1800xt? Stuff cotton in your ears, especially in comparison to the 7900gt reference cooler? Anyways I would call this review a clear win for nvidia. Bias, who knows, but not many ati users have reported stuffing cotton in their ears (probably would buy a water cooling first).
 
PRIME1 said:
If there were not so many problems with the ATI cards, maybe people would not be clearing the shelves of NVIDIA cards.

Many people systems can't handle the heat and power draw of a XTX and don't need the couple extra fps for the cost.
Click to expand...


Last i checked the problems ive been seeing relate to preoverclocked 7900-gtx's artifacting and locking up peoples systems, and this goes for bfg, xfx and evga boards.

Id rather pay for a card thats gonna work out of the box than pay for something thats had documented problems on multiple forums. Anybody with a decently ventilated case and a decent psu thats not a noname brand pos is not gonna have any problems with an x1900.
 
HeavyH20 said:
Yes, but the poll is invalid. It includes X1800 XT, GTO and XL cards which have been around since December. It should simply be X1900 based cards versus 7900 based cards.

But, the fact that there are more 7900's reported than all the X1900 and X1800 cards ATI has sold since December speaks for itself.
Click to expand...

The X1800 GTO has not been out since Dec. It just now came out last week.

The X1800XT is the direct competitor to the 7900 GT, same price range at about $300. The results are much closer than they started out being now. 48%, to 52%.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
And yes, it's a fact that the cards aren't in stock...but it's not because nvidia is having supply issues, it's because they're selling like hotcakes. This is not a problem, it's completely normal when you're ramping up production of a new chip......
...
...
...
Are the cards not in stock? Yeah, I have eyes, I can see that. Does this mean nvidia is experience some kind of problem? I don't think so, selling out every card you can make seems like a pretty damn good situation to be in.
Click to expand...


You know you need to be very carefull here. As there is a thin line between not having stock due to demain and supply issues as one could argure that if you dont have enough stock to meet the demain its a supply issue PERIOD.

You ALMOST could take your same agurment and say that the xbox360 when first luach did not have any supply issues, just that it sold like hotcakes and its normal with a new consol launch. Which is 100% factual statment, but its commonly know that in fact MS did have supply issues with the xbox360. Granted I am not saying that anything NV did/does will be as bad as the xbox360 but the end effects are the same, people wanting them and can not buy them = BAD.

I think the common acceptence of supply issues has to be considered over time. If after some time has passed and a company still can not meet the demain, then YES its a supply issue. Be it an issues with having low yeilds, not enough capacity to make more of your product, shipping, packaging, ect.
 
Chris_B said:
Last i checked the problems ive been seeing relate to preoverclocked 7900-gtx's artifacting and locking up peoples systems, and this goes for bfg, xfx and evga boards.

Id rather pay for a card thats gonna work out of the box than pay for something thats had documented problems on multiple forums. Anybody with a decently ventilated case and a decent psu thats not a noname brand pos is not gonna have any problems with an x1900.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but please don't point out the obvious.......

As I said on the first page of this thread, a company has good supply when it actually makes it to retail and not just etail. Until then, there is a supply issue. Maybe todays inquirer story is correct and NV is doing this to clear out the 7800 inventory?
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Yeah, but please don't point out the obvious.......

As I said on the first page of this thread, a company has good supply when it actually makes it to retail and not just etail. Until then, there is a supply issue. Maybe todays inquirer story is correct and NV is doing this to clear out the 7800 inventory?
Click to expand...

Possible, also lower supply in channels will keep the prices higher :) more profits. nV has stated that the gf7's will sell concurrent with the next in line (Vista chips), so probably this is just a way to maximize profits, increase market share, and reduce inventory leftovers of the 7800's. The cards are going in and out of stock everywhere, they are selling very well. I know a guy at newegg, and when they get thier shipments in (usally they get around 10 cards per supplier, so around 50 cards per week?) he didn't have exact figures but they are selling out all in one day.
 
Jbirney said:
You know you need to be very carefull here. As there is a thin line between not having stock due to demain and supply issues as one could argure that if you dont have enough stock to meet the demain its a supply issue PERIOD.

You ALMOST could take your same agurment and say that the xbox360 when first luach did not have any supply issues, just that it sold like hotcakes and its normal with a new consol launch. Which is 100% factual statment, but its commonly know that in fact MS did have supply issues with the xbox360. Granted I am not saying that anything NV did/does will be as bad as the xbox360 but the end effects are the same, people wanting them and can not buy them = BAD.

I think the common acceptence of supply issues has to be considered over time. If after some time has passed and a company still can not meet the demain, then YES its a supply issue. Be it an issues with having low yeilds, not enough capacity to make more of your product, shipping, packaging, ect.
Click to expand...
Well, look at it this way...it would be much easier for Nvidia to keep up with the high demand if their name was ATI and they were selling 1900s....I bet you, its much easier to keep up when most people is not buying your product...
 
People buy what they buy. Simply put, you CAN get 7900 series cards without too much trouble. If there was a serious supply issue, you couldn't. And there are reasons to pick both. There IS no victor this time around, they're both solid cards and offer great gaming choices. SO GO PLAY GAMES. :p

(Oh, and my reason for picking Nvidia over ATi this time: Linux drivers. That's all. Otherwise I would have been JUST as tempted by ATi's offering as I was by the Nvidia one).
 
Jbirney said:
You know you need to be very carefull here. As there is a thin line between not having stock due to demain and supply issues as one could argure that if you dont have enough stock to meet the demain its a supply issue PERIOD.

You ALMOST could take your same agurment and say that the xbox360 when first luach did not have any supply issues, just that it sold like hotcakes and its normal with a new consol launch. Which is 100% factual statment, but its commonly know that in fact MS did have supply issues with the xbox360. Granted I am not saying that anything NV did/does will be as bad as the xbox360 but the end effects are the same, people wanting them and can not buy them = BAD.

I think the common acceptence of supply issues has to be considered over time. If after some time has passed and a company still can not meet the demain, then YES its a supply issue. Be it an issues with having low yeilds, not enough capacity to make more of your product, shipping, packaging, ect.
Click to expand...

Thank you for providing the one sane post in this entire thread.
 
shaolin95 said:
Well, look at it this way...it would be much easier for Nvidia to keep up with the high demand if their name was ATI and they were selling 1900s....I bet you, its much easier to keep up when most people is not buying your product...
Click to expand...


QFFUD
 
Jbirney said:
You know you need to be very carefull here. As there is a thin line between not having stock due to demain and supply issues as one could argure that if you dont have enough stock to meet the demain its a supply issue PERIOD.

You ALMOST could take your same agurment and say that the xbox360 when first luach did not have any supply issues, just that it sold like hotcakes and its normal with a new consol launch. Which is 100% factual statment, but its commonly know that in fact MS did have supply issues with the xbox360. Granted I am not saying that anything NV did/does will be as bad as the xbox360 but the end effects are the same, people wanting them and can not buy them = BAD.

I think the common acceptence of supply issues has to be considered over time. If after some time has passed and a company still can not meet the demain, then YES its a supply issue. Be it an issues with having low yeilds, not enough capacity to make more of your product, shipping, packaging, ect.
Click to expand...


How is it a supply issue if you can go to another e-store and buy it, not just from your favorite e-store? This isn't the same thing as xbox 360, so no you can't take your arguement and compare it to the xbox 360 :). They are avialable just not ever store has them in stock at the same time.
 
Chris_B said:
Anybody with a decently ventilated case and a decent psu thats not a noname brand pos is not gonna have any problems with an x1900.
Click to expand...

What a pain in the butt to have to upgrade your PSU and your case for a new card.
 
Chris_B said:
Anybody with a decently ventilated case and a decent psu thats not a noname brand pos is not gonna have any problems with an x1900.
Click to expand...
I have an $9 Ultra UV Wizard case and $22 350W SuperFlower PSU. I guess no X1900 for me. :(
 
pxc, you really use that crappy of a PSU? Hope it doesnt blow on you, and take you PC with it. :( 22A is not very good.

So here it is another day, and newegg still doesnt have a single 7900GT or GTX. In fact, they've dropped from 11 different GTX's, down to 8 cards to choose from. Out of stock, and less cards to choose from? Thats hardly a good sign.

Once again, for the people who dont bother to read, I never said you couldnt get a 7900GT/GTX. You can. But when Best Buy doesnt even list them, when they had the 7800 series the day of release, thats a step backwards. So is the much diminished quantity of 7900 cards, compared to the 7800 cards at this point of release. The 7800 series was never sold out like this, and its my opinion that they sold more 7800's, than 7900's. Mainly because the 7800 series really had no competition for several months.

Newegg for the second day, doesnt have a single 7900GT or GTX. ZipZoomFly has 3 GT's, and no GTX's. MonarchPC also doest have a single GT, or GTX in stock. With the ETA two weeks away for more of them. Does everyone agree that those are three of the best and biggest e-stores for PC parts? If between them all, they have three 7900GT's and no GTX's in stock, how in the world can there not be a supply issue?

NV had a very, very, very good release of the 7800GT/GTX cards. They were in mass quantity the day of release online, and in retail stores such as Best Buy. And even more, they never sold out like this, and the price was lower a month after release, not higher. Another clue that the 7800 release was much better than the 7900 release. With the 7800 GTX 512MB release, and now the 7900 series release, they have takes huge steps backwards. Which is all I am saying. Not that the cards are bad, not that they are not a good choice, none of that. Just the simple fact that this release, is far from the release of the 7800 series. ATi got a LOT of bad press for lack of availability on certain sites. Now that the tables have turned, hardly a peep about NV's problems. And I just find that hypocritical.

For those of you accusing me on not even wanting a NV cards, you dont have a clue. Two weeks ago I was on a A8N32-SLI and 2x BFG 7800GTX's. It would have been MUCH easier for me to get just two new 7900GTX's, than to replace my motherboard, and get Crossfire. However, since the GTX's were sold out at my usual sites (ZZF&Monarch), and the ones that were listed, were above MSRP, it wasnt that attractive. But the final straw was, a 7900GTX blocks 2 out of the 4 SATA ports on the A8N32, making them unusable. Of course no review mentions this, I got lucky and saw a post with a pic of this issue. So do not assume so much. Most people here like to talk the talk, and dont even come close to buying a $500+ card, let a lone two. I back it up my opinions with buying actual cards.
 
What I can't figure out is why so many, many of you flamed ATI for their supply problems and turn a blind eye when Nvidia has the same issue.

Hardocp flammed ATI for over a year, they even refused to review their products.
 
You can get 7900GTX's. Allstarshop has them in stock. Though they are charging MSRP for them. At least the BFG's anyway. Chumbo has them super cheap ( if you can call $519 or so cheap). As a result, stock is low.

If you want one cheap, that's going to be difficult. CompUSA does carry them and have several on order. They should be getting them any time now. (They have 40 on order, 20 for the Pittsburgh store, and 20 for Mesquite TX.)

They are super tough to find locally, but this is still way better than waiting a month to get a 6800GT PCI-E like it was a year and a half ago.
 
fallguy said:
pxc, you really use that crappy of a PSU? Hope it doesnt blow on you, and take you PC with it. :( 22A is not very good.
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Hey! My PSU works fine. Super Flower is a decent PSU manufacturer.

FWIW, I've never had a PSU blow up and/or take out other components. And i've been building my own systems since 1989. My most expensive PSU ever was an Antec for $35.
 
fallguy said:
pxc, you really use that crappy of a PSU? Hope it doesnt blow on you, and take you PC with it. :( 22A is not very good.


Newegg for the second day, doesnt have a single 7900GT or GTX. ZipZoomFly has 3 GT's, and no GTX's. MonarchPC also doest have a single GT, or GTX in stock. With the ETA two weeks away for more of them. Does everyone agree that those are three of the best and biggest e-stores for PC parts? If between them all, they have three 7900GT's and no GTX's in stock, how in the world can there not be a supply issue? .
Click to expand...

You're just looking at them at the wrong time, Late last week they had gt's and gtx's in stock. Earlier in the week they were sold out at Newegg. As with zipzoomfly, I just ordered 5 full systems 3 with Gt's and 2 with Gtx's some parts from newegg and some from zipzoomfly for a friend's office.

For those of you accusing me on not even wanting a NV cards, you dont have a clue. Two weeks ago I was on a A8N32-SLI and 2x BFG 7800GTX's. It would have been MUCH easier for me to get just two new 7900GTX's, than to replace my motherboard, and get Crossfire. However, since the GTX's were sold out at my usual sites (ZZF&Monarch), and the ones that were listed, were above MSRP, it wasnt that attractive. But the final straw was, a 7900GTX blocks 2 out of the 4 SATA ports on the A8N32, making them unusable. Of course no review mentions this, I got lucky and saw a post with a pic of this issue. So do not assume so much. Most people here like to talk the talk, and dont even come close to buying a $500+ card, let a lone two. I back it up my opinions with buying actual cards.
Click to expand...

What? The 7900 gtx will have to take up more then 2 slots to cover the sata 1 and sata 2 on this board, I just got one ;) . Also sata 1 and sata 2 ports are to the left of the the pci 1 slot. near the lower left hand corner of the board, there is no way the graphics cards would cover them up., the HSF goes over the ports slightly but doesn't get anywhere near the point where you can't put the sata connectors in, the HSF is about 1/4 cm off the PCI slot hight, there is more then enough space to squeeze that sata connectors in, Yeah its a tight fit for the sata cables but they still fit in.
 
lopoetve said:
spend 5 seconds shopping and you won't be waiting :rolleyes:
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Thats what I did, I cancelled the nvidia order, spent 5 seconds to order the XTX, got it the day after it was ordered and have been happy ever since.
 
lopoetve said:
the one notable difference I see here is this:

when you look to the X800PE and the like, cards of ANY brand were almost impossible to find, were massively overpriced, and sold out for weeks at a time. The horror stories of waiting 4 months and then never seeing a card are far too common.
Click to expand...

I was there...on one hand I had an X800XT PE on order and at the same time I had a 6800 Ultra on order. It was about a three month wait.

The 6800 Ultra never came in, but the X800 did.
 
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