ATI to counter the 6800GT!!!

burningrave101 said:
nVidia is ahead of ATI in BOTH DX9 AND OpenGL. To see raw performance of the cards you have to look at how they perform with AA + AF turned off. Thats the actual raw speed of the card. AA and AF performance has alot to do with filtering optimizations and the performance there can be easily increased in driver updates.

At 1600x1200 in DX9 the 6800u wins nearly every time.
At 1600x1200 w/ 4xAA in DX9 the 6800u wins every time.
At 1600x1200 w/ 4xAA + 16xAF in DX9 the X800XT PE wins a little more often then the 6800u but they are usually always neck and neck.
At 1600x1200 w/ 4xAA + 16xAF in OpenGL the 6800u wins every time.

Are you seeing where i'm going with this?

ATI's performance in DX9 titles relys on their AF performance. In 9 out 10 DX9 games the 6800u is going to beat the PE without high levels of AF enabled. Its probably even a higher percentage then that.

The 6800u's start losing steam the higher the AF goes. The X800's dont. ATI has so far been able to come up with better AF optimizations than nVidia. Thats about the only explanation i can come up with for the results.

nVidia has a much larger lead in OpenGL then ATI has in any DX9 titles. In DX9 the cards are tied for the performance crown because its entirely up to which DX9 game your playing and what settings your using. People keep looking at Far Cry, Halo, and UT2004 and think those account for the rest of the DX9 games out there and they dont at all.

If its OpenGL however, it really doesn't matter which game your playing or what settings your using.

Call of Duty and KOTOR were the two biggest hits of 2003 so why wouldn't OpenGL be just as important as DX9 even if there are more DX9 titles? Alot of the major hits get built around OpenGL. We've got Doom 3, Quake 4, the Call of Duty expansion and others coming up. All of them will be MAJOR hits.

If the X800XT PE was the faster card it would be able to outperform the 6800u with and without AF enabled and it can't.

I would like to find out more about ATI's AF and how it scales so perfectly with almost no performance loss at all.
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Raw performance doesn't matter to me. I play with AF and AA under DX9 and ATI is the better value there. IQ looks as good as NV in that situation and performance is better for ATI, what's there to argue? ATI has a filtering scheme that doesn't effect IQ to gain performance. Lately NV hasn't been able to do that.

You must have me pegged as a ATI fanboy, but I've only owned ATI since the 9700 Pro. I would have bought a NV product this cycle and planned to, but they didn't come out on time. I bought the X800 Pro the first week they were out and have been enjoying it since. At this time there is no compelling reason to go NV for me.

Also, this thread isn't about the Ultra, it's about the GT. IQ is king as far as I'm concerned and the filtering of ATI has a lesser impact than NV with equal IQ.

You named about 4 MAJOR titles and forgot about ALL the others that use DX. Did you forget about UT? How about Pain Killer? Far Cry? Battlefield? MANY others. GL is here to stay, but it's the minority of MAJOR titles coded with that API. The fact is that most major titles are built and will be built with DX9+ from here on out. Don't get me wrong, I love GL and wish that ATI was better with it, but the developer community is focusing on DX.
 
DooKey :
FarCry ver.1.3 ? :)
Requires 32bit blending, Ati has only 24bit...

Terra...
 
DooKey said:
Raw performance doesn't matter to me. I play with AF and AA under DX9 and ATI is the better value there. IQ looks as good as NV in that situation and performance is better for ATI, what's there to argue? ATI has a filtering scheme that doesn't effect IQ to gain performance. Lately NV hasn't been able to do that.

You must have me pegged as a ATI fanboy, but I've only owned ATI since the 9700 Pro. I would have bought a NV product this cycle and planned to, but they didn't come out on time. I bought the X800 Pro the first week they were out and have been enjoying it since. At this time there is no compelling reason to go NV for me.

Also, this thread isn't about the Ultra, it's about the GT. IQ is king as far as I'm concerned and the filtering of ATI has a lesser impact than NV with equal IQ.

You named about 4 MAJOR titles and forgot about ALL the others that use DX. Did you forget about UT? How about Pain Killer? Far Cry? Battlefield? MANY others. GL is here to stay, but it's the minority of MAJOR titles coded with that API. The fact is that most major titles are built and will be built with DX9+ from here on out. Don't get me wrong, I love GL and wish that ATI was better with it, but the developer community is focusing on DX.
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ATI's AF does not look as good as NV's, sorry :p I think NV should lessen their IQ to that of ATI's AF, and you'd see it's faster. If IQ is king you'd go with NVIDIA. FPS appears to be king for you. ATI's AF scheme *does* affect IQ and many people have noticed this.
 
evilchris said:
So you are saying I am not like a fanboy? I agree. Do you know what atypical means? LOL!
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so i typoed, but you know what i meant, i meant to insult you, now take offence to it! :(

ill be nice, CIWS.
 
doh-nut said:
so i typoed, but you know what i meant, i meant to insult you, now take offence to it! :(

ill be nice, CIWS.
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Ok, I'M OFFENDED!!! :p


I like typos that make the comment mean the complete opposite of the intent, though =)
 
...if you really think about it, ATI doesn't have to specifically counter the 6800gt. What they have to do is actually ship their top-end in significant quantity. The only reason I bought a 6800gt was a) I couldn't find an xt pe, and b) the 6800gt clocks to ultra speed, so all I get for my extra 100 going for ultra is dual-dvi(another thing, by the way, I don't see on ati cards).
 
evilchris said:
ATI's AF does not look as good as NV's, sorry :p I think NV should lessen their IQ to that of ATI's AF, and you'd see it's faster. If IQ is king you'd go with NVIDIA. FPS appears to be king for you. ATI's AF scheme *does* affect IQ and many people have noticed this.
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do you ever read any reviews, or just randomly blurt BS out of your mouth :p
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
do you ever read any reviews, or just randomly blurt BS out of your mouth :p
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Yeah, and I went one step further than a smack talking fool like yourself. I bought a BBA X800 Pro and a BFG 6800 GT OC. I returned the X800 Pro after determining for MYSELF that the GT looked better and was faster.
 
This whole 'whose got better/worse ops' is rather moot. Nvidiots can turns there's off [god bless], atidiots can't.
 
I wish ATI would hurry and ship the X800XTPe as all this nvidia6800GT lovefest is making me rather nauseous :eek: :p But on the good side of it My local vendor is getting a shipment at the end of July so all is good!
 
I'm thinking a down-clocked 16-pipe vanilla XT would be marginally but decidedly faster than a GT, and if it clocked to XTPE speeds, it would be a really good deal. The question is, is ATI prepared to drop the Pro $100 to compete with the 6800 and bring to market an XT at $400 to directly challenge the GT. And could they even get such a card to market before they are scheduled to announce their next gen card?
 
@trapine said:
I wish ATI would hurry and ship the X800XTPe as all this nvidia6800GT lovefest is making me rather nauseous :eek: :p But on the good side of it My local vendor is getting a shipment at the end of July so all is good!
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thats too bad, waiting untill the end of july and all....Kinda sux to be a ATI fanboy, all the NVIDIA boyz allready have there stuff.....


Dont feel too bad though, theres poor fathers like me who spend all there money ond dipers and fourmula.....i dont get to upgrade to this gen cards....
 
Heh, watch it get delayed. Or even better yet, watch the GT pound the XTPE in D3. Why pay for comedy when it can be found so freely on the internet?
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I'm thinking a down-clocked 16-pipe vanilla XT would be marginally but decidedly faster than a GT, and if it clocked to XTPE speeds, it would be a really good deal. The question is, is ATI prepared to drop the Pro $100 to compete with the 6800 and bring to market an XT at $400 to directly challenge the GT. And could they even get such a card to market before they are scheduled to announce their next gen card?
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A 350MHz GT beats the XT PE in OpenGL games though. A downclocked XT will gets it ass handed to it by a GT, like the Pro does.
 
@trapine said:
I wish ATI would hurry and ship the X800XTPe as all this nvidia6800GT lovefest is making me rather nauseous :eek: :p But on the good side of it My local vendor is getting a shipment at the end of July so all is good!
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Just like he was schedueled to get a shipment end of last month, begining of this month yada yada?
 
jacuzz1 said:
Just like he was schedueled to get a shipment end of last month, begining of this month yada yada?
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Yeah thats why after almost two months of waiting on my X800XT-PE I decided to go for the 6800GT. ATI can blame themselves or the memory manufacturers or whoever I don't care. Fact is they lost my business because they couldn't get the product to me
 
The latest anand articles have an X800XT platinum edition as well as a regular X800XT, and this is on the AGP based S754 platform. I believe its in the Asus vrs. Albatron NV article. I suspected this all along, I saw the PE moniker as added wiggle room and the glaring opening to maybe get more money than a pro but less than a PE, maybe a spot for cores where 16pipes work but not swing the MHz (Some of these are the pro VIVO's right now... you've been warned.) Makes a hell of alot more sense to me than to add a GT.

They are all good cards though btw, I just think the pro will need to be repositioned just a bit sooner than people thought before NV got there drivers together. (Side note for the ravid ATi fans since Im mostly addressing the NV guys right now, on the driver bit, do remember all you guys who jump to conclusions that at one point the x800pro was touted as better than the 6800Ultra. Still True?) :eek: They left the room for repositioning like I said. They have wiggle room to react. People that think Ati should come out and concede defeat really don't know jack shit about business. Being a bit NV crazy if you think ATi needs to make this sort of move with the product lineup that WILL be on store shelves. Not only is it suicide, but, ahem... yeah the X800XT:pE really needs to be apologized for. :rolleyes:

Oh yeah though... stupid me, I forgot which ever company recruits the most fanboy forum wankers will ineviatbly be the talk of wall street while yes of course (drumroll please).... the other goes the way of 3dfx right? :p I was going to write some stuff about how much I like the 6800GT and stuff, but ended up having to set stuff like this straight instead. Really some crazy shit to be read in these forums.
 
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