ATI : Return of the king : Nvidia in trouble

Here's the deal about the Inq and Charlie: He actually gets a lot of facts down - the only problem is that he finds a way to spin those facts negatively and also his interpretations of the data are actually wrong.

Most people in the know already know about the clocks, yields, 55nm refresh, and all that - however, that isn't the whole story about the cards nor does he actually know any performance numbers, much less between the two brands.
 
It's not particularly credible. I really don't believe any of it. Maybe ATI will come back with a fight or we might just be out our minds to think that. I don't really root for corporations or companys. They all have one goal in mind and that is to make money, which is achieved by customer satifsaction.
 
ZerazaX said:
Here's the deal about the Inq and Charlie: He actually gets a lot of facts down - the only problem is that he finds a way to spin those facts negatively and also his interpretations of the data are actually wrong.

Most people in the know already know about the clocks, yields, 55nm refresh, and all that - however, that isn't the whole story about the cards nor does he actually know any performance numbers, much less between the two brands.
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This is right on the money. Charlie is using the truth to tell a lie without actually lying. Sounds convoluted yes but the facts are pretty much out there, save performance as you have pointed out.

The GTX 280 will be the fastest single core GPU released period. How else could nVidia charge $650 for it. There's just no debate on that one for the sane. What the real question is is by how much will the 280 lead the rest of the pack? I don't think that yields or heat are that big of a deal. The 4870 X2 will produce a lot of heat as well, and will beat the the GTX 280 sometimes and not sometimes not due to the nature of multi-GPU solutions.

The writing is on the wall in the form of the prices. It simply boils down now to product supply, quality, and value. That's really all that's left to be answered. There's no question or mystery here, just drama.
 
i, too have been using cf for a while but only learned of what catalyst a.i. does recently.
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Exactly...it's just not clear what the setting does without looking it up, which is ridiculous. ATI should make this much more obvious or at least document the intricacies better in my opinion, because it seems like sometimes it turns on game-specific optimizations as well as just effecting Crossfire performance.
 
Not sure what version of driver your friend is using, but switching from SLI to non SLI doesn't require a reboot.

Charlie does what he intended with his guesses/parrot what others guess/posts on multi-tech forums. He gets hits on his site.
 
Miscommunication said:
They don't officially update their drivers for months, but new betas are leaked and spread nearly on a weekly basis consecutively (and I'm not joking). A couple of times times you'd see two new beta drivers within the same week. Yes, there are improvements in these driver "releases" more often than not.

"WHQL" doesn't mean squat FYI; it's just four letters.
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in the realm of video card manufacturers, ATI's driver support is definately the better between the 2 companies (this really isn't even an arguement anymore)

going from using ATI for a good year and a half to using Nvidia now for a good 7 months i can honestly say ATI's driver support and release methodology is the best..

after having gone from a 6800GT to an ATI X1900XTX (probably one of the best cards i've ever used) to an 8800GT i am horribly reminded of Nvidia "Beta" driver release program.. argg gimme ATI's official monthly release any day of the week..
 
H-street said:
in the realm of video card manufacturers, ATI's driver support is definately the better between the 2 companies (this really isn't even an arguement anymore)

going from using ATI for a good year and a half to using Nvidia now for a good 7 months i can honestly say ATI's driver support and release methodology is the best..

after having gone from a 6800GT to an ATI X1900XTX (probably one of the best cards i've ever used) to an 8800GT i am horribly reminded of Nvidia "Beta" driver release program.. argg gimme ATI's official monthly release any day of the week..
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There are tons of professional reviews that regularly complain of issues with AMD/ATI drivers (like this one), so there is still an argument I'm afraid.

The last high end AMD/ATI GPU I used was a 9800XT and it was solid. I've not had any issues with nVidia drivers (I usually run the latest betas) except when I first moved to Vista. At the time AMD/ATI drivers were probably better regarded.
 
eric66 said:
last three gens ? 2000 and 3000 are same thing and even if you count them as 2 different gens which one is third ?
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Come on folks. You can predict the order of performance by price. The top three cards come June 18 in terms of performance on average will be as follows:

1) GTX 280 - The best single card/single core GPU in the consumer market to date. Period.
2) GTX 260 - The second best single card/single core GPU in the consumer market to date. Period.
3) 4870 - The best value in the consumer GPU market to date. Period.

Will the GTX have heat issues? Maybe. Will the 4870 be the best buy? Unquestionably. Will geeks have wet dreams over the GTX 280? Absolutely.

With the stated prices of the respective parts this is the only way this can go down. It's simple economics. That's not to say that the GTX won't have heat or supply issues. AMD isn't going to have those problems. The 4870 will be a cleaner more efficient design, it just won't win any benchmarks.

While they won't admit it, the high end is not AMD's space any more. That's not to say that don't have good products at good prices.
 
I don't see the 4870 bieng the best deal, it will probably still fall at or behing a 9800GTX which is currently $300, and will drop after the new cards become available. Before you start spewing numbers, know that ATi always has more shader units and higher clocks, and still loses out clearly to the nVidia counter parts. Why? Because they are always behind in fill rate. You can have all the shader units you want (slow: synced with the core I might add), but you have to push the pixels or they are moot. This is why nVidia will still murder ATi, more TUs and more RUs with higher shader clocks.

Red fails again, and we all lose.
 
The problem is that nVidia will be able to either reduce prices of previous generation cards or create new mid-range cards that beat ATIs cards by 20-30%. I would love to have ATI back in the competition and I'm very worried about the current situation. If ATI goes down, we all lose.
 
vick1000 said:
I don't see the 4870 bieng the best deal, it will probably still fall at or behing a 9800GTX which is currently $300, and will drop after the new cards become available. Before you start spewing numbers, know that ATi always has more shader units and higher clocks, and still loses out clearly to the nVidia counter parts. Why? Because they are always behind in fill rate. You can have all the shader units you want (slow: synced with the core I might add), but you have to push the pixels or they are moot. This is why nVidia will still murder ATi, more TUs and more RUs with higher shader clocks.

Red fails again, and we all lose.
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Well then you might be glad to know that current rumors place the 4870 as being better than 9800GTX.

Wait and see before we assume :rolleyes:
 
ZerazaX said:
Well then you might be glad to know that current rumors place the 4870 as being better than 9800GTX.

Wait and see before we assume :rolleyes:
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I'd expect it to beat-out the 9800GTX but the suggested price of even the HD 4870 512mb (if you believe those Tom's Hardware slides that are supposedly from AMD) looks like it will be $330. The 9800GTX atm is in the $300 range, but I'm fully expecting at least $50 price drops across the board on those when the HD 4870 releases (and remember that the HD 4870 is only supposed to soft launch).
 
TerranUp16 said:
I'd expect it to beat-out the 9800GTX but the suggested price of even the HD 4870 512mb (if you believe those Tom's Hardware slides that are supposedly from AMD) looks like it will be $330. The 9800GTX atm is in the $300 range, but I'm fully expecting at least $50 price drops across the board on those when the HD 4870 releases (and remember that the HD 4870 is only supposed to soft launch).
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And a brand name 9800GTX @ sub $250 is a whole lot of sexy for the $.
 
I for one want ati to take the crown, I HATE these stupid nvidia drivers that crash allllll the time.
 
The Inq is completely ATI-biased. most people that read multiple sources easily see there inflated ATI numbers, even inflated clockspeeds for rumored products.

i'm one that buys the best product available for the price. i used ATI when they were on top, and use nvidia now. The Inq loves AMD and ATI.

The Inq is good for getting the 1st rumor leaks, but worthless besides that.
 
vick1000 said:
I don't see the 4870 bieng the best deal, it will probably still fall at or behing a 9800GTX which is currently $300, and will drop after the new cards become available. Before you start spewing numbers, know that ATi always has more shader units and higher clocks, and still loses out clearly to the nVidia counter parts. Why? Because they are always behind in fill rate. You can have all the shader units you want (slow: synced with the core I might add), but you have to push the pixels or they are moot. This is why nVidia will still murder ATi, more TUs and more RUs with higher shader clocks.

Red fails again, and we all lose.
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what benchmarks have u seen that show the 4870 will lose ot the 9800gtx?
 
heatlesssun said:
Come on folks. You can predict the order of performance by price. The top three cards come June 18 in terms of performance on average will be as follows:

1) GTX 280 - The best single card/single core GPU in the consumer market to date. Period.
2) GTX 260 - The second best single card/single core GPU in the consumer market to date. Period.
3) 4870 - The best value in the consumer GPU market to date. Period.

Will the GTX have heat issues? Maybe. Will the 4870 be the best buy? Unquestionably. Will geeks have wet dreams over the GTX 280? Absolutely.

With the stated prices of the respective parts this is the only way this can go down. It's simple economics. That's not to say that the GTX won't have heat or supply issues. AMD isn't going to have those problems. The 4870 will be a cleaner more efficient design, it just won't win any benchmarks.

While they won't admit it, the high end is not AMD's space any more. That's not to say that don't have good products at good prices.
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I fail to see how you can base performance by price of the card. Look at the 5800U/59xx series from nV. They were higher priced than ATi's offering but had lower performance than the 9700/9800 series.
 
tpfaff said:
I for one want ati to take the crown, I HATE these stupid nvidia drivers that crash allllll the time.
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They do? (I should probably mention that I'm running Windows Vista Home Premium x64 which should probably be a "worst-case scenario" atm as far drivers go)
 
Compare by price?
Then I guess a Quadro will play Crysis on Very High and get 500fps.
 
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