ATI Crossfire May Yet Hit it's Target!!!!! Good stuff

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Lord_Exodia

Supreme [H]ardness
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Sep 29, 2005
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Hey guys I read this and I'm stoked. It looks like crossfire may be an awesome thing thanks to the new RD580. Check this out

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2609&p=1

The only thing I disagree with is the notion from ati that the X1800XT 512MB should compete with the 256MB GTX. That card is 6 months older but other than that, this new Crossfire chipset looks awesome and I might actually be able to go crossfire without any downfalls. Finally it is looking promissing for ATI. :D
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
As far as I'm concerned the X1800XT and 7800GTX 256mb are competitors and the GTX 512 is in a league of its own
Click to expand...

I'd rather not make this discussion about this particular issue as it can lead to a flame debate. I'd rather address the amazing progress ATI has achieved with the new chipset. I'll just adress your comment respectfully in saying that I prefer to compare cards in the same price bracket. And prefereably with the same size of RAM and lastly released at around the same time.

*** OOh also The king of one castle vs the King of the other castle instead of the First knight.
 
I disagree but I guess this could turn nasty :D

As I've said before I think ati have made some real strides in the chipset market and hopefully new southbridges will iron out a few little niggles, glad there si finally a competitor to SLi though as it may make prices drop a bit ;)
 
*sigh* I seriously dont get it. when ever ATi takes the lead the green team fans strike back with "but i can over clock my (insert card here) and get the same performance." argument and now they say the 512 gtx is a league of its own??? Hardly. 10k+ in 3dmark05 is no small achievement and from the forums ive been reading Sli performance with 2 512 GTX cards isnt that much higher, and because of this card nvidia has now also lost its "cost/performance" argument. I will be soon switching back to ATi i have had the worst luck with my BFG nvidia cards (gone through 4 7800GT cards)
 
From the looks of this having 2 X1800XT PE in crossfire is gonna be killer. Not a bad time to switch back to ATI unless nvidia comes out with something great. I planned on waiting to get the 2 512mb GTX cards until the prices came down. Now I'm gonna wait until Xfire comes out and we see what it can do. It's good competiton and we the comsunder win. :D
 
Lord_Exodia said:
From the looks of this having 2 X1800XT PE in crossfire is gonna be killer. Not a bad time to switch back to ATI unless nvidia comes out with something great. I planned on waiting to get the 2 512mb GTX cards until the prices came down. Now I'm gonna wait until Xfire comes out and we see what it can do. It's good competiton and we the comsunder win. :D
Click to expand...


And then you'll be waiting forever :p, if your planing to get ati and go crossfire at least get 1 of the X1800XT cards before theres a shortage :p

//Chilly
 
Chilly said:
And then you'll be waiting forever :p, if your planing to get ati and go crossfire at least get 1 of the X1800XT cards before theres a shortage :p

//Chilly
Click to expand...

At the end of the article it looks like there may be a X1800XT PE coming soon. I'm more than fine with my setup. Also the RD580 Motherboards aren't out yet. I think my setup is better now than 1 X1800XT. Around that time will be the sweet spot. The 512MB GTX will be at a lower price and Crossfire and the X1800XT PE may be just around the corner.
 
Andross182 said:
*sigh* I seriously dont get it. when ever ATi takes the lead the green team fans strike back with "but i can over clock my (insert card here) and get the same performance." argument and now they say the 512 gtx is a league of its own???
Click to expand...

This round I have preferred ATi and would definitley not want to be called a 'green team fan' however I am able to face the facts that yes at the moment, the 7800GTX 512mb is one hell of a card

Look at the benchmarks

http://hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODg1

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2607
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
This round I have preferred ATi and would definitley not want to be called a 'green team fan' however I am able to face the facts that yes at the moment, the 7800GTX 512mb is one hell of a card

Look at the benchmarks

http://hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODg1

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2607
Click to expand...

I'm a fan of competition...and yes..I tend to LEAN more towards the red, but the gtx 512 is awesome. Just the price I can't justify. I found my personal limit and it's $600 per video card....now if I can just get a raise...maybe I'll say $700 :D
 
i don't want this to turn into a red vs green thread, so i'll just say the GTX512 is the fastest but from what everyone was expecting out of it with those clocks it sure didn't produce (nor is the price very atractive)

i'm very anxious to see those xfire #'s, and [H]ards real time gameplay results vs its competition in SLI, i may have to tell my friend i hooked up with a SLI GTX set-up he might have to go for a xfire set up now :D
 
Trimlock said:
i don't want this to turn into a red vs green thread, so i'll just say the GTX512 is the fastest but from what everyone was expecting out of it with those clocks it sure didn't produce (nor is the price very atractive)
Click to expand...
You have to admit, from that Anandtech review of the 512GTX, the X1800XT does surprisingly well. I was expecting to see the X1800XT get consistently destroyed by the 512GTX, but the X1800XT actually gets fairly close to its performance in a few of the games when AA is enabled.

It's good to hear that ATI got around that 1600x1200 cap, but I'm still curious if the refresh rate is capped at 60Hz at those resolutions. Most serious gamers still use CRT monitors, and gaming at 60Hz with a CRT just isn't practical.
 
GVX said:
You have to admit, from that Anandtech review of the 512GTX, the X1800XT does surprisingly well. I was expecting to see the X1800XT get consistently destroyed by the 512GTX, but the X1800XT actually gets fairly close to its performance in a few of the games when AA is enabled.

It's good to hear that ATI got around that 1600x1200 cap, but I'm still curious if the refresh rate is capped at 60Hz at those resolutions. Most serious gamers still use CRT monitors, and gaming at 60Hz with a CRT just isn't practical.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, from what i've read and seen right after those reviews when the 81.94 forceware was used instead of the 81.89 beta the gap got larger in favor of the 512MB GTX. I mean like 15-25fps appart in some games.

Good observation though, I didn't notice that there was no mention of the refresh rate. I'll have to assume with the new chip that there is no limit there either but since it hasn't been mentioned it should still be considered.
 
Im actually wondering even if they get the master cards out, we'll still have to wait for the crossfire motherboards no? Only one known is DFI with problems.

Personally id like to purchase ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe, but that means Nvidia only.
Would be great if everything wasnt restricted to only one type of MB, but wishful thinking -_-
 
The only downfall with crossfire is the master card slave card thing that will apparantly disappear completely after the X1x00 series
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
As far as I'm concerned the X1800XT and 7800GTX 256mb are competitors and the GTX 512 is in a league of its own
Click to expand...

7800GTX 256. Released June 2005, Current MSRP $499

X1800XT 512. Released November 2005, Current MSRP $599

7800GTX 512. Released November 2005, Current MSRP $649


Your argument doesn't hold much weight. I suppose we can say The 7800GTX 256 is competition to the X850XT? Lol.
 
evilc` said:
7800GTX 256. Released June 2005, Current MSRP $499

X1800XT 512. Released November 2005, Current MSRP $599

7800GTX 512. Released November 2005, Current MSRP $649


Your argument doesn't hold much weight. I suppose we can say The 7800GTX 256 is competition to the X850XT? Lol.
Click to expand...

the 7800GTX 256 had a MSRP of $599 at launch
 
LOL if ati wanted a card that directly competed with the gtx 512mb and ignore the 256 then they could have (r580 is practically ready board partners already have a few samples). The X1800XT was designed to compete with the 7800GTX 256MB, if prices don't match then that's unlucky for the consumer. From ym perspective I either pay about £350 fo a 7800GTX, £530 for a 7800GTX 512MB or £410 X1800XT 512MB.

Quick summary

GTX/XT = about £60 difference
XT/GTX512MB = about £120 difference
 
Netrat33 said:
the 7800GTX 256 had a MSRP of $599 at launch
Click to expand...

This is a crock...MSRP does not, nor has it ever determined what card competes with what...all that matters is the current retail price...

The $100 price difference doesn't mean that the GTX 512 is not the direct competition of the X1800XT, since both of those cards represent the ultra high end segment, they are DIRECT competitors...why would you say any differently? How many people are willing to spend $600 on a video card, but not $700?

At the ultra high end, $100 does not put the GTX 512 in a different weight class...people who would otherwise have bought an X1800XT will now buy a GTX 512 because it's faster...that's competition right there...

If ATi wants to say that a new card is coming out and that the x1800XT wasn't "intended" to be competition for the GTX 512, that's fine, and I totally get it...but right now it IS competition and these two cards should be directly compared to eachother.

I find it shocking that Anandtech would roll over and refuse to directly compare the GTX 512 to the X1800XT in favor of the 256meg GTX...

This review is nothing but a platform for ATi to market their new motherboards...and after 6 separate glowing reviews of ATi chipsets from Anandtech, I'm starting to doubt their impartiality since everyone else seems to have serious issues with the chipset.
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
LOL if ati wanted a card that directly competed with the gtx 512mb and ignore the 256 then they could have (r580 is practically ready board partners already have a few samples). The X1800XT was designed to compete with the 7800GTX 256MB, if prices don't match then that's unlucky for the consumer. From ym perspective I either pay about £350 fo a 7800GTX, £530 for a 7800GTX 512MB or £410 X1800XT 512MB.

Quick summary

GTX/XT = about £60 difference
XT/GTX512MB = about £120 difference
Click to expand...

The 256 meg GTX can be had in the US for under $480...the X1800 XT is still at $600...and the GTX 512 is at $700...

That's $120 between the 256 gtx and the x1800 xt...
and $100 between the 512 gtx and the x1800 xt...
 
Yup Im a nVidia guy. I cant justify the 7800 gtx-512 at the present but Ill take two once the price comes down a bit. This x1800 stuff is humorous.....I sat reading the same old drawn out lines a couple of months before the current ATI releases..... and there was no real overwhelming advancement made.....Crossfire is still only available for the 850 cards...and I havent seen any MBs released(altho I havent looked lately)....same ol',same ol' :D :D
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
I either pay about £350 fo a 7800GTX, £530 for a 7800GTX 512MB or £410 X1800XT 512MB.
Click to expand...
I've seen the Point of View GTX512 for £479 (inc. VAT) in the UK but I suppose you could get the GTX256 and X1800XT cheaper too if you shopped around.

As for X1800XT XFire and R580 - I'll be impressed when they're on sale and in stock and not a moment sooner.

:)
 
^eMpTy^ said:
The 256 meg GTX can be had in the US for under $480...the X1800 XT is still at $600...and the GTX 512 is at $700...
Click to expand...

I don't live in Amrica but I did some quick searching around and I found that the 7800gtx 512 is going for $750 on newegg and ZZF

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143044

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=322746

While the X1800XT is about $550 - $580

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102629

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=326831

Am I looking in the wrong places or have prices changed recently due to stock availability?

:confused:
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
I don't live in Amrica but I did some quick searching around and I found that the 7800gtx 512 is going for $750 on newegg and ZZF

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143044

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=322746

While the X1800XT is about $550 - $580

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102629

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=326831

Am I looking in the wrong places or have prices changed recently due to stock availability?

:confused:
Click to expand...

I just use froogle, the gtx 512 was coming up at 699.99 and the x1800 xt was $599 for everything I saw...

In any case, price doesn't matter at the high end, if it was about price/performance, people would be buying a 6800GS...this is about what's the fastest card on the face of the planet...when ATi launched the X1800 XT at $599, that put them squarely in the ultra-high-end class...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I just use froogle, the gtx 512 was coming up at 699.99 and the x1800 xt was $599 for everything I saw...

In any case, price doesn't matter at the high end, if it was about price/performance, people would be buying a 6800GS...this is about what's the fastest card on the face of the planet...when ATi launched the X1800 XT at $599, that put them squarely in the ultra-high-end class...
Click to expand...
Actually the X1800XT to ATI is what the 7800GTX is to Nvidia. The 7800GTX 512 is a refresh like the R580 will be for ATI. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Actually the X1800XT to ATI is what the 7800GTX is to Nvidia. The 7800GTX 512 is a refresh like the R580 will be for ATI. Nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...

That's not accurate as Nvidia Will definitely have an answer to the R580. There will be a 90NM GPU coming and I'm not talking about G80 that will be the answer to R6xxx
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Actually the X1800XT to ATI is what the 7800GTX is to Nvidia. The 7800GTX 512 is a refresh like the R580 will be for ATI. Nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...

Right, you heard it hear ladies and gentleman, the 7800 GTX 512 is NOT, I repeat NOT, competition for the X1800 XT, because ATi said so...

Nevermind that they're both high end video cards that have been released within a couple weeks of eachother...nevermind that both represent the best that each company has to offer...you shouldn't compare these cards because then ATi would lose...

:rolleyes:

Let me guess Rick...we should all just wait for R580 so we can get a "fair" comparison...the definition of "fair" being one ATi can win?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm quite tired of waiting for ATi to get their act together...they've been telling us to "wait" for over a year now...and it's just silly at this point...
 
Ouch :eek:

I would say that I'm tired of waiting for ATI but in waiting I jumped on this SLI motherboard. There is no room for waiting in this game. Competition is there for us to bennefit from. If you don't have a solution from your fav company go with the one who has the current best solution. Nvidia and ATI would satisfy anyone. I strongly suggest to be loyal to noone buy your wallet and yourself.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Right, you heard it hear ladies and gentleman, the 7800 GTX 512 is NOT, I repeat NOT, competition for the X1800 XT, because ATi said so...

Nevermind that they're both high end video cards that have been released within a couple weeks of eachother...nevermind that both represent the best that each company has to offer...you shouldn't compare these cards because then ATi would lose...

:rolleyes:

Let me guess Rick...we should all just wait for R580 so we can get a "fair" comparison...the definition of "fair" being one ATi can win?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm quite tired of waiting for ATi to get their act together...they've been telling us to "wait" for over a year now...and it's just silly at this point...
Click to expand...

Yep, and then when the 90nm G70 launches to compete with R580, that won't be "fair", as the R580 is "competition to the GTX 512 released in November 2005". R600 is the competition to 90nm G70!! Then when G80 launches and defeats R600, that isn't fair either. It won't ever freaking end.

ATI lost this generation, big deal. Just admit it. It won't hurt you I promise.
 
This generation was harder to summerize. ATi lost this generation due to their timing and availability on the X1800XT. Performance wise they are only a tad slower than the 7800GTX 512. Still ATi did lose but its not like its the end of the world. The odd thing is that when the X850's came out people were shouting about how Ati had to create a refresh line up to compete with Nvidias cards and while it was fair it was pathetic. Yet whenever Nvidia realeses the same thing with beefed core clocks and mem clocks it is thought of as a beast?
Listen the 7800GTX 512 is a beast I am not saying it isnt. I am simply saying that When ATi refreshes a product it gets blasted for needing an update to compete but when Nvidia does it its fine? I never understood.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
This is a crock...MSRP does not, nor has it ever determined what card competes with what...all that matters is the current retail price...

The $100 price difference doesn't mean that the GTX 512 is not the direct competition of the X1800XT, since both of those cards represent the ultra high end segment, they are DIRECT competitors...why would you say any differently? How many people are willing to spend $600 on a video card, but not $700?

At the ultra high end, $100 does not put the GTX 512 in a different weight class...people who would otherwise have bought an X1800XT will now buy a GTX 512 because it's faster...that's competition right there...

If ATi wants to say that a new card is coming out and that the x1800XT wasn't "intended" to be competition for the GTX 512, that's fine, and I totally get it...but right now it IS competition and these two cards should be directly compared to eachother.

I find it shocking that Anandtech would roll over and refuse to directly compare the GTX 512 to the X1800XT in favor of the 256meg GTX...

This review is nothing but a platform for ATi to market their new motherboards...and after 6 separate glowing reviews of ATi chipsets from Anandtech, I'm starting to doubt their impartiality since everyone else seems to have serious issues with the chipset.
Click to expand...

You sir are absolutely correct. I was about to post many similar comments. You've covered all the bases I was going to.
 
Listen the 7800GTX 512 is a beast I am not saying it isnt. I am simply saying that When ATi refreshes a product it gets blasted for needing an update to compete but when Nvidia does it its fine? I never understood.
Click to expand...

the real question is did nvidia really do a refresh??? no they didn't, they simply released the ultra that existed, it is the same core.

in the way you are saying things ATi did a refresh for the x1800xt 512 mb since they made the x1800xt 256 mb

x1800xl 256 MB goes with 7800gt
x1800xt 256 MB goes with 7800gtx 256 MB
x1800xt 512 MB goes with 7800gtx 512 MB

ATi announced that there would be a 512 MB x1800xt.
nvidia on the other hand only said that there would not be an ultra (which there is not), they never said there would not be a 512 MB version of the gtx.

Your argument makes no sense...
 
Keep eating the Nvida PR machine boys........

Why did Nvidia wait until almost six months after the 7800GTX to release a refresh? Now if ATI hadn't always planned on a X1800XL and X1800XT, it would be one thing. Nah,,, this is not a direct reaction to the X1800XT release......

This is clearly REV2 of the 7800GTX core (I don't know, reworked) so how can you not call it a refresh.

Thanks for staying on topic though.

I feel the excuses already coming from the green camp.
 
Render said:
nvidia on the other hand only said that there would not be an ultra (which there is not), they never said there would not be a 512 MB version of the gtx.

Your argument makes no sense...
Click to expand...
Other than the big fat "U" on the engineering samples of the 7800 GTX REV2 cores?

Wait... lets take a quote from the [H] review of the X1000 cards.

"The Radeon X1800 XT comes with either 256MB or 512MB of memory. Both come with a core that is clocked at 625MHz and memory that is clocked at 1.5GHz. The 256MB version has an MSRP of $499 and the 512MB version will go for $549. This video card is meant to compete with the GeForce 7800 GTX. It comes standard in a dual slot configuration with a rear exhausting heat sink fan unit and dual dual-link DVI. The heat sink itself is made of copper. ATI has now joined the ranks of those that produce long video cards. Measuring nine inches, the Radeon X1800 XT and XL are exactly the same length as the GeForce 7800 GTX"
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Keep eating the Nvida PR machine boys........

Why did Nvidia wait until almost six months after the 7800GTX to release a refresh? Now if ATI hadn't always planned on a X1800XL and X1800XT, it would be one thing. Nah,,, this is not a direct reaction to the X1800XT release......

This is clearly REV2 of the 7800GTX core (I don't know, reworked) so how can you not call it a refresh.

Thanks for staying on topic though.

I feel the excuses already coming from the green camp.
Click to expand...

Rick this is just getting sad...nobody needs to make excuses for nvidia, because they're kicking ATi's ass right now...

Nvidia waited 6 months because they had the 7800 Ultra ready to go waiting for R520, which just never showed up...finally the X1800 XT appears, and nvidia lays down the trump card...and that's how you kick someone's ass in this business...

I really don't get what you're so bent out of shape about...
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Other than the big fat "U" on the engineering samples of the 7800 GTX REV2 cores?

Wait... lets take a quote from the [H] review of the X1000 cards.

"The Radeon X1800 XT comes with either 256MB or 512MB of memory. Both come with a core that is clocked at 625MHz and memory that is clocked at 1.5GHz. The 256MB version has an MSRP of $499 and the 512MB version will go for $549. This video card is meant to compete with the GeForce 7800 GTX. It comes standard in a dual slot configuration with a rear exhausting heat sink fan unit and dual dual-link DVI. The heat sink itself is made of copper. ATI has now joined the ranks of those that produce long video cards. Measuring nine inches, the Radeon X1800 XT and XL are exactly the same length as the GeForce 7800 GTX"
Click to expand...

Nice job shooting yourself in the foot...

That review was written BEFORE the GTX 512 was released...so of course they're going to say it's supposed to compete with the regular GTX...because that was the high end nvidia card at the time...
 
Didnt read it all


But wait until game deverlops start using ATI new memory architecture - 7800GTXs could have a gig or ram and a 512 card would still beat it

and YES the 7800GTX *** is the competitor to the x1800 **** simple as that.
 
Yes, a card released a week ago is what ATI invisioned four months ago when the X1800XT was to be released. I know it's hard to put together but the 7800GTX 512 has a reworked core, PCB, and memory so how can it not be a refresh? But I guess that is exactly what the X1800XT was made for, a reworked card that didn't exist until a week ago :rolleyes: And you guys are actually saying Brents review is wrong?


This is becoming pathetic.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Yes, a card released a week ago is what ATI invisioned four months ago when the X1800XT was to be released. I know it's hard to put together but the 7800GTX 512 has a reworked core, PCB, and memory so how can it not be a refresh? But I guess that is exactly what the X1800XT was made for, a reworked card that didn't exist until a week ago :rolleyes: And you guys are actually saying Brents review is wrong?

This is becoming pathetic.
Click to expand...

His review is perfectly accurate, you're just taking it out of context...and I'd be extremely careful who you called pathetic, you're on some very shaky footing at this point.

Why are you trying to call the GTX 512 a refresh? What's the point? The fact is that right now the X1800 XT is the best ATi has and the GTX 512 whoops it soundly...where is the disagreement? Are you trying to say that this is somehow an unfair comparison? If so I'd be interested in the logic you used to reach such a decision.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
His review is perfectly accurate, you're just taking it out of context...and I'd be extremely careful who you called pathetic, you're on some very shaky footing at this point.

Why are you trying to call the GTX 512 a refresh? What's the point? The fact is that right now the X1800 XT is the best ATi has and the GTX 512 whoops it soundly...where is the disagreement? Are you trying to say that this is somehow an unfair comparison? If so I'd be interested in the logic you used to reach such a decision.
Click to expand...
I, as most normal people, will take the position when ATI releases their refresh part for the X1800. You are comparing apples to oranges simply because ATI was late to the game. If ATI is smart they will get the R580 out since that is meant to be the answer to the second revision of the 7800, which is out today and known as a 7800GTX 512. If this reworked core, PCB, memory was the answer to the X1800XT, Kyle and Brent would have said so in their review of the product. Instead they clearly say Nvidia is doing to this maintain their lead this generation which implies Nvidia beleives this equates to ATI having no answer. As of today, they are doing a great job at maintaining the raw speed lead but I still prefer gaming on my X1800XT over my 7800GTX.

I personally think that ATI has a ton of headroom in their new memory controller and will be heavely expoited in the next few driver releases. Hell, they fixed the OGL gap in one release so who knows what is next.
 
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