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ATi Concedes Round 1

U

UltimateMan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
494
Observation:

With the emergence of the new ATI X850 series of cards, it seems as though ATi is following Nvidia's lead in the graphics market. Performance wise, the 6800 and X800 cards are of course very competitive, with each flagship model having victories over the other in certain applications. However, I think there is little doubt that the wider availability of Nvidia's higher end products (6800, 6800GT, 6800 Ultra) has lead to much stronger sales for Nvidia compared to those of ATi. Thus ATi has been forced into following Nvidia's lead and creating the X850 series of cards, with new models designed specifically to compete with Nvidia's primary models.

Before, there were two choices for ATi (X800Pro,X800XT) as opposed to the three Nvidia had offered (6800,6800GT,6800Ultra), excluding the hardly available XTPE and UltraEE.

Thus, by following Nvidia's lead (in terms of sales, which IS what matters most) ATI has conceeded defeat in round one, and has moved on to Round 2, the X850 series. And as competitive (performance wise) as the X800Pro and X800XT were with Nvidia's offerrings, it would not surprise me to see ATI's new X850 series have a larger performance advantage over Nvidia's current lineup.
 
Uh, round one was years, and years ago.

Nice try on the PR statement though.
 
Round 1 of the new graphics generation, i.e. 6800 vs X800

nice try on the intelligent response though.
 
Hmm.

I think x800 Pro and 6800 GT availability has been similar. The problem there is that, on average, the x800 Pro loses alot more benchmarks than it wins, and its initially abyssmal performance in Doom 3 was a real black eye. Since the x800 Pro couldn't even consistently win in games it should have "owned" (e.g. Far Cry and HL2), it has been seen as a bit of a loser compared to the nVidia product... fairly or not.

x800 XT-PE has been a joke, much hyped by ATI but impossible to get and comically overpriced for the minor performance gain over the x800 XT. The Big Lie you see repeated over and over, or just implied in benches posted by review sites, is that the x800 XT-PE is meant to compete with the 6800 Ultra, when it is the slower x800 XT that is priced like the Ultra and available like the Ultra. The x800 XT-PE might win the battle of the vaporware with the 6800 Ultra Extreme Edition, but with its inflated price and general non-availability, comparing it to the Ultra is just stupid.

The x800 XT is a killer product, in alot of respects more attractive than the Ultra simply because it isn't so bloated (huge cooler & 2x power hookups...?), not to mention that it is fast as hell. The 6800 doesn't have an ATI competitor.

So to conclude:

6800... no ATI competitor
x800 Pro vs. 6800 GT... most people are calling this one for nVidia.
x800 XT vs. 6800 Ultra... inconclusive. The x800 XT has the advantage of being less physically bloated. Each is better at some things than the other.
x800 XT-PE vs. 6800 Ultra Extreme... both are vaporware, who cares?
 
The high end is profitable per unit, but it doesn't make up the bulk of the sales. Both ATI and nvidia make their real money and the mid and low end chips.

ATI has been very successful with the cheaper X300 and X600 PCI-E cards even though most people here would never buy one. And the grab of marketshare they gained this year means ATI lost nothing.

As far as profitability goes, ATI is still far behind nvidia. :p
 
You know what I'd like to see? I'd like to have one of them come out with a new flagship video card for around the $250 range. Constantly releasing the newer cards at a simply unattainable price for most, is kinda rediculous. They don't see any real sales until they drop the price after a newer chipset comes out anyway. I couldn't find any numbers to back this up, but I would bet that 9800 sales tripled when the x series was released. The Asus XTPE currently has a sticker price (not that you could get it if you wanted to) of $899 on most sites.

I don't care if they have a million in stock, as long as the newer cards are over $400, most people just aren't going to get them, and they might as well be vaporware. Obviously, they're going to do what makes the most business sense, and I don't pretend to know more than the professional market analysts they have. But I wouldn't be to surprised though if some startup out there decides to start competing on a lower price level, and make them come back down to reality. Right now we're realistically locked into the big 2 if you want the best performance. Introduction of a true compeititor is what we need.
 
x800 XT-PE vs. 6800 Ultra Extreme... both are vaporware, who cares?
Click to expand...

Here in Holland (Europe), if you really want a XTPE you can find it (you will have to make a call to let's say 8 shops but you can find one), the 6800 Ultra Extreme however is unfindable.

The X800XT (vanilla) is not a direct competitor of the 6800U because (here in Europe) it's 100$ cheaper. The XTPE is in the same pricerange of the Ultra.
 
Apple740 said:
The X800XT (vanilla) is not a direct competitor of the 6800U because (here in Europe) it's 100$ cheaper. The XTPE is in the same pricerange of the Ultra.
Click to expand...

Ya well here in the states expect to shell out over $100 MSRP for an XTPE. The XTs and Us typically go for around the same price as well, unless 1 happens to be on the occasional good deal.
 
UltimateMan said:
Round 1 of the new graphics generation, i.e. 6800 vs X800

nice try on the intelligent response though.
Click to expand...

I think fallguy won Round 1 on the intelligent post competition.

Why do people make video cards out to be so dramatic. It isn't Nascaar or the NFL...it's a piece of crap you buy in a store....Jeez. Round 1....give me a break.
 
Met-AL said:
I think fallguy won Round 1 on the intelligent post competition.
Click to expand...

And I think he lost magnificiently. WTF is your point?

Why do people make video cards out to be so dramatic. It isn't Nascaar or the NFL...it's a piece of crap you buy in a store....Jeez. Round 1....give me a break.
Click to expand...

I've spent more money on computer hardware than on any sport of any kind [well, if you can call racing stupid looking cars around the same damned oval a sport]. If you don't like it I suggest you move out of these forums, you know, the VIDEO CARD forums. Imagine that, we discuss VIDEO CARDS in the VIDEO CARD forum. Wow, I'm absolutely flabbergasted. :rolleyes:
 
i will take my x800 pro clocked at 550 core 570 memory against any of your 6800 gt's.
 
Met-AL said:
I think fallguy won Round 1 on the intelligent post competition.

Why do people make video cards out to be so dramatic. It isn't Nascaar or the NFL...it's a piece of crap you buy in a store....Jeez. Round 1....give me a break.
Click to expand...

yet you are posting in this forum...
 
pandora's box said:
i will take my x800 pro clocked at 550 core 570 memory against any of your 6800 gt's.
Click to expand...

Even a GT clocked at 450/625?.. I know a few guys around here that have a GT at 480/1300 or so...
 
Heh, my GT clocks to 430/1200 with the stock cooler. That would rightly kick his Pro in the nuts. Can't beat the 16 pipe goodness. Even a GT at 400/1100 would beat his Pro in just about anything.
 
UltimateMan said:
yet you are posting in this forum...
Click to expand...

Yaa, you tricked me into thinking that this thread was relevant by the title.
 
Met-AL said:
Yaa, you tricked me into thinking that this thread was relevant by the title.
Click to expand...

Tricked into reading =! tricked into posting.

And don't say Satan made you do it, I have it from faithfull sources that he's still in posession of Cheney and is as such preoccupied.
 
LOL... id like to see how much more ati can squeeze out of .11 micron process..

while nvidia is using .13 for their high end parts.... when they make the jump to .11 expect some nice mhz speed boosts. hows ati going to respond to that? they cant go any micron lower.

ati is screwed this generation.......and since all cards are based off a parent generation for about 18 months.. its going to be a bleak 18 months for ati.

this entire thing kinda reminds me of the nv30 disaster.
b/c ati is doing just that w/ .11 micron and low k. they cant get shit out the door.
thats why they are redesigning new cards ... just so they can get some decent yields.
 
UltimateMan said:
creating the X850 series of cards, with new models designed specifically to compete with Nvidia's primary models.
.
Click to expand...

Excuse me if I'm missing something here, but isn't one companies products SUPPOSED to compete with their rivals? :rolleyes:
 
i dont think ati's x850 is gonna break any records or anything.. a 20mhz on the core is pretty much useless.. but hey the new cards looks nice hehe
 
pandora's box said:
i will take my x800 pro clocked at 550 core 570 memory against any of your 6800 gt's.
Click to expand...
Thats a pretty bold statement bud, but last time I checked GT's clock past ultra speeds with 4 more pipes default than a 12 pipe x800 pro....beating the x800 pro usually.
 
Apple740 said:
Here in Holland (Europe), if you really want a XTPE you can find it (you will have to make a call to let's say 8 shops but you can find one), the 6800 Ultra Extreme however is unfindable.

The X800XT (vanilla) is not a direct competitor of the 6800U because (here in Europe) it's 100$ cheaper. The XTPE is in the same pricerange of the Ultra.
Click to expand...

Must be nice. Here (read: anyplace in USA) the x800 XT-PE is $100+ more than a 6800 Ultra and simply not possible to find. x800 XT cards are plentiful for the same price as a 6800 Ultra.
 
pandora's box said:
i will take my x800 pro clocked at 550 core 570 memory against any of your 6800 gt's.
Click to expand...

Some poor soul doesn't understand how video cards work. :D

See, with only 12 pipelines, you are operating at a severe handicap vs. the GT. Stock x800 Pros at 475/900 routinely lose to stock 6800 GTs at 350/1000. To match my 6800 GT @ 435/1.15, you would have to get your core up to about 580.

Oops. :p
 
i will take my x800 pro clocked at 550 core 570 memory against any of your 6800 gt's.
Click to expand...

bud they got u beat unless you flash it to 16 pipes. Do that and then you can shoot down the gt !!!!!!s.
 
CastleBravo said:
Must be nice. Here (read: anyplace in USA) the x800 XT-PE is $100+ more than a 6800 Ultra and simply not possible to find. x800 XT cards are plentiful for the same price as a 6800 Ultra.
Click to expand...

Funny because I have had my x800XT-PE for 3.5 months now, I paid less for it than they are charging for ANY of the 6800U's at newegg.com today.

I guess I am just an anomaly.

(BTW, vanilla XT's are selling for less than 6800U's by an average of about $50).
 
Been looking around some more, and I guess I am a serious Anomaly. Those PE's are pretty tough to find.... It can be done, but it's a bit harder than finding 6800U's (though far easier than findine 6800U-EE's).

Guess I was smart to jump on the first report of someone actually having them in stock. :)
 
Let's keep it clean guys, it took a lot of guts for ati to admit defeat. LOL.

Seriously though, I think it's cool how from the beginning everyone predicted the 6800gt to be sweet spot. I really do think that the 6800gt killed the x800's as well as the 6800u's. I am still yet to see one(personally) that doesn't overclock to ultra levels right out of the box.
 
Meh, a friend hooked me up with a sweet deal on my ASUS X800 Pro, brand new in the box for only $250. :D
 
computerpro3 said:
bud they got u beat unless you flash it to 16 pipes. Do that and then you can shoot down the gt !!!!!!s.
Click to expand...
um since when can these be flashed to unlock pipes? they laser burn this shit and completly disable thee things now id like to see a guide or somthing on this, and either way the 6800 series has better video quality so jam it up your ass
 
Hostile said:
Meh, a friend hooked me up with a sweet deal on my ASUS X800 Pro, brand new in the box for only $250. :D
Click to expand...

Why did he get a GT? :p
:D j/k... thats a sweet deal
 
arentol said:
Funny because I have had my x800XT-PE for 3.5 months now, I paid less for it than they are charging for ANY of the 6800U's at newegg.com today.

I guess I am just an anomaly.

(BTW, vanilla XT's are selling for less than 6800U's by an average of about $50).
Click to expand...

x800 XT for $499:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=320815

Fractionally cheaper at Newegg.com, but it is a OEM bulk pack model... also the only x800 XT in stock, while there are several 6800 Ultras...

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-131-289&depa=0

6800 Ultra for $519

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=322685

Same at Newegg.com, $519

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-130-196&depa=0

Wow, I found an x800 XT-PE in stock someplace... and for "only" $599.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=320816&ps=ho11

Thank you for talking out of your ass on prices. Please try again. :D

(Note that Newegg.com is out of stock for ALOT of the high-end video cards, so they are a bad source for info... unless you want me to quote their $699 XT-PE prices. :eek: )
 
pandora's box said:
i will take my x800 pro clocked at 550 core 570 memory against any of your 6800 gt's.
Click to expand...

You'd be crazy. I've owned both. My X800Pro overclocked to the same speeds. My 6800GT kicks it's ass even at stock speeds in alot of games. When overclocked, simply put, the 6800GT RAPES the X800Pro.
 
It doesnt matter if newegg is out of stock, they will be getting more in. Their lowest price on a X800XT is $455, lowest on a 6800U is $519. More than $50, what he said was accurate.

Really showed some class trying to talk down to him though.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
You'd be crazy. I've owned both. My X800Pro overclocked to the same speeds. My 6800GT kicks it's ass even at stock speeds in alot of games. When overclocked, simply put, the 6800GT RAPES the X800Pro.
Click to expand...

What this man quoted above me speaks is a known fact via many of reviews around the web, it has yet to be contested.
 
arentol said:
Funny because I have had my x800XT-PE for 3.5 months now, I paid less for it than they are charging for ANY of the 6800U's at newegg.com today.

I guess I am just an anomaly.

(BTW, vanilla XT's are selling for less than 6800U's by an average of about $50).
Click to expand...
I got my 6800 Ultra for $504 from newegg yesterday :p
 
fallguy said:
It doesnt matter if newegg is out of stock, they will be getting more in. Their lowest price on a X800XT is $455, lowest on a 6800U is $519. More than $50, what he said was accurate.

Really showed some class trying to talk down to him though.
Click to expand...

A lower price on a product you can't actually buy? Wow, that's helpful. Gee, you really disproved me. I'm sure the price won't go up once it is in stock... if that model is in stock... :rolleyes:

I could just as easily find Ultras out of stock for cheaper than the ones that are in stock. But that would be exactly as pointless as x800 XT's that are out of stock for cheaper than the ones that are in stock. See, shit you can't buy being cheaper than shit that actually exists doesn't do you any good, now does it? ;)
 
In most caes it is faster, save for the very few exceptions. HL2 seems to be one of them. When running with the highest settings.

I too went from a a X800 Pro, to a 6800GT. My GT is faster, but I would rather have a X800XT, or a Pro that could be flashed. I traded cards, as silly as it may sound, because at the time, there were no GPU+Ram waterblocks for the X800 Pro. I didnt really care which card I had, just wanted the dual function waterblock. I am glad I changed cards, as most games are faster on the GT. It was as apparent when the cards first came out, but it more so now.

Edit, you can find them for close to neweggs price, so it doenst matter. Quit trying to troll, and start arguments. Either start posting without the tude, or get ignored.
 
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