ATI 1950XTX review

uuuh, right, and some people arent like me and surf both forums, and since i want opinions from both sides, I started this thread......I figure why not cut em a break ;)
 
Shocky said:
Nope, I don't bother with H's "best playable settings" crap...
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Why not? The way I see it, wouldn't you want to squeeze everybit of preformance out of a card before it starts to slow down? Why buy a high endcard if your not going to max it out? Seems pointless to me.
 
FS/T: 2 eVGA 7950GX2's $499 + shipping / each. Will also trade for a ATI x1950xtx and x1950xtx Mastercard
 
munkle said:
Why not? The way I see it, wouldn't you want to squeeze everybit of preformance out of a card before it starts to slow down? Why buy a high endcard if your not going to max it out? Seems pointless to me.
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I decide what my best playable settings are, not H.. Maybe if they did benchmarks at settings I might actually use I might take them seriously.
 
solobaricsrock said:
So did anyone read this???? Its closer to the 7950 in single and dual card setups, but the 7950, in raw framerate production with max settings, still hands it its arse all in almost every setup.(note i dint say all people) They say the IQ is better than a 7950, but IQ is subjective, so lets not go there. Opinions, and comments????

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTE0NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
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IQ is subjective?

Okay, so when you have 2x AA and HDR and 16xAF on vs NVIDIA no AA and no HDR and 8xAF - is subjective? nice way to try and claim NVIDIA is still better.....




Shocky said:
I decide what my best playable settings are, not H.. Maybe if they did benchmarks at settings I might actually use I might take them seriously.
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I can agree with this, i would rather have the game at my max resolution i can (lcd so 1680 x 1050) and then turn on in game details before i even touch AA or AF myself.
 
MrGuvernment said:
IQ is subjective?
Okay, so when you have 2x AA and HDR and 16xAF on vs NVIDIA no AA and no HDR and 8xAF - is subjective? nice way to try and claim NVIDIA is still better.....
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down flame boi down!

look its as simple as G71 = R580&R580+. we've prooven this. 7900GTX = X1900XTX, they trade places for top spot in games almost 50/50. the X1950XTX isnt 50 pts more lol, its faster memory. thats it. it cant offer that much more improvement. i mean really, going from DDR2 667 to DDR2 800 on your mainboard will increase your CPU score by what? 10? 20pts? not much... its the same deal here. if memory speed were really such a big deal wed b on GDDR6.

the 7950GX2 is two cards, strapped to a single pci-e 16X bus. weather that effects performance i donno but i do know that those drivers desperatly need work. also it is bein held down by those resolutions, that card wants to run higher resolutions really badly.

if you have a 7900GTX, X1900XT or X1900XTX this is not an upgrade. its simply (as i stated in the other thread) ATi saying "Look at us! were soo much better then them damn greenies eh!!" (*im canadian* you americans really gotta learn to appreciate EH, its a great filler, a question, an insult w/e you need EH is there)
 
MrGuvernment said:
IQ is subjective?

Okay, so when you have 2x AA and HDR and 16xAF on vs NVIDIA no AA and no HDR and 8xAF - is subjective? nice way to try and claim NVIDIA is still better.....
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Yup, and ATI cant even do AA & HDR without a patch......So now whats your point????
 
is the patch only in oblivion ? i dont recall having to patch cs:s to use HDR and aa...... ? So one game has an issue with HDR and AA, is that the game makers fault, or ATi's ?


MrWizard6600, i agree, i would love to see nvidia strap some gddr4 to their X2's, if it can help a single core ati card like this, what could it do for NVIDIA dual + gpu's systems..... i wasnt trying to flame bait, but the response sounded more like someone over looking the details of the review, and now pointing out 1 flaw to defend NVIDIA as still being the greatest.
 
im not even really tring to say that. All im saying is that the whole IQ deal is buff.....

I say Nv is better cause I have an Nv card
XxXxXx might say ATI is better cause he has an ATI

Its all pointless, and all I wanna see is what everyone got from it. ATI camp says they stomp Nv with not one single person owning one. Nv (going strictly by the review) held higher framerates with similar settings. So whats your take???
 
solobaricsrock said:
Yup, and ATI cant even do AA & HDR without a patch......So now whats your point????
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From what I have seen Nvidia cant do AA and HDR at all together in oblivion (which is what I assume your talking about because the chuck patch is for oblinvion only)
 
munkle said:
From what I have seen Nvidia cant do AA and HDR at all together in oblivion (which is what I assume your talking about because the chuck patch is for oblinvion only)
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Seems rediculous that they have to release a seperate driver just for one game but they can can do it in some games without this driver, I think it also works in far cry (but needs patch) and I believe it works in Serious Sam 2 also..

HL2 uses a slightly different implimentation which allows both nv and ati cards use aa+hdr...
 
huh?

Nvidia cant do HDR and AA enabled at the same time, it is not build into the hardware like ATi does
 
solobaricsrock said:
im not even really tring to say that. All im saying is that the whole IQ deal is buff.....

I say Nv is better cause I have an Nv card
XxXxXx might say ATI is better cause he has an ATI

Its all pointless, and all I wanna see is what everyone got from it. ATI camp says they stomp Nv with not one single person owning one. Nv (going strictly by the review) held higher framerates with similar settings. So whats your take???
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My apologies then, i mistook the post.

What i got from the review is that a single core / card solution is all that may be needed into today market for most people (which is as it stands now really), that with the proper combo of hardware in the card, it can pop out lots of power, for a single core to keep up with (inch ahead in some cases) a dual gpu card says something ?

Sure, NVIDIA may need to work on it's drivers, but how long has it's dual gpu cards and quad cards been out? This is my main issue with NVIDIA, with them it is always, well our card "could" be good, but you need to wait until we release better drivers in a few months. Why can ATi release a new card with new ram and the drivers work fine? Okay, well wait till ATI improves their drivers for this particular card, another argument that can go on and on and on every time new drivers come out.

I have seen the many comparisons between ATI and NVIDIA and IQ issues, and it has been shown ATI does better then NVIDIA, now the question is, do you notice it running past a wall trying to shoot someone down? No, most dont, but knowing, for a fact, that one company does better then another, does help incase you do want to stop and smell the flowers on yout way to the frag fest around the corner.

I have no intention on buying an x1950 card, my x1900 XT does me fine, if it doesnt i decided since i have an SLI board and once games become more dual core reliant, then SLI i shall go, as long as it is what will fill my needs at the time of purchase.

I do like to "play" a game, but more and more now i do enjoy sometimes just looking around, seeing and looking for details and often am impressed at what i see and find, so now i want those details to look good, of course the game play better be dam good too :D
 
Shocky said:
Seems rediculous that they have to release a seperate driver just for one game but they can can do it in some games without this driver, I think it also works in far cry (but needs patch) and I believe it works in Serious Sam 2 also..

HL2 uses a slightly different implimentation which allows both nv and ati cards use aa+hdr...
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Seems rediculous that nvidia doesnt fix it so you can do Hdr and AA in oblivion to me, and seems rediculious that nvidia has to go to a 2 gpu card to try to take the top preformance spot, but we are all entitled to what we think is rediculous.
 
Current NV GPUs lack the hardware necessary to do MSAA + FP16 Blend HDR. ATI has this necessary circuitry in their X1000 family line.
 
munkle said:
Seems rediculous that nvidia doesnt fix it so you can do Hdr and AA in oblivion to me, and seems rediculious that nvidia has to go to a 2 gpu card to try to take the top preformance spot, but we are all entitled to what we think is rediculous.
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NV have the technology to do use multiple gpus on one card so why shouldnt they, ati couldnt even if they tried with there current gpus... HDR+AA only applys to 3 games, one Far Cry which which involves patching and modifing the config and even then hdr in this game looks like poop, serious sam 2.. a budget shooter which sucks... and Obivion which needs a septerate driver just to do it...

HDR+AA is really importent right now isnt it... ;)
 
Shocky said:
HDR+AA is really importent right now isnt it... ;)
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apparently it is since people are making a big deal of it. You think Ati couldnt put 2 gpus on one card? You dont know that for a fact thats your assumption, look at nvidia their 2 gpu card it has to have special bios support to make it work, and it doesnt work correctly on all mobos, maybe Ati decided not to do a 2 gpu solution to stay away from problems like this, but when your nvidia and going for everybodys money what do they care?
 
munkle said:
apparently it is since people are making a big deal of it. You think Ati couldnt put 2 gpus on one card? You dont know that for a fact thats your assumption, look at nvidia their 2 gpu card it has to have special bios support to make it work, and it doesnt work correctly on all mobos, maybe Ati decided not to do a 2 gpu solution to stay away from problems like this, but when your nvidia and going for everybodys money what do they care?
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X19##'s already hit 90C load, can you imagine what the temps would be if you put 2 of them on a single card and then theres the power requirements plus the noise of two insanely loud coolers... .. :eek:

But motherboards are compatible with the 7950GX2, most new ones are and even older mobos work fine with latest bios.. I've had no compatibility problems with the two mobo's i've testing with it and neither bios I was using had official support from nvidia.
 
Shocky said:
They already hit 90C load, can you imagine what the temps would be if you put 2 of them on a single card and then theres the power requirements plus the noise of two insanely loud coolers... .. :eek:
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Why complain about the temprature, the cards can take it, what about the whole 7900gt thing, all the companys were overclocking them and the cards would not last very long, ati worries about stuff working right not money like nvidia.
 
munkle said:
Why complain about the temprature, the cards can take it, what about the whole 7900gt thing, all the companys were overclocking them and the cards would not last very long, ati worries about stuff working right not money like nvidia.
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Can't comment as I've never owned a GT... But temps are very importent, yes the x19## can handle it but it wont be able to handle it when theres another core also at 90C+ right next to it... The main reason nvidia can use multiple gpus is because they run so cool.
 
MrGuvernment said:
My apologies then, i mistook the post.

What i got from the review is that a single core / card solution is all that may be needed into today market for most people (which is as it stands now really), that with the proper combo of hardware in the card, it can pop out lots of power, for a single core to keep up with (inch ahead in some cases) a dual gpu card says something ?

Sure, NVIDIA may need to work on it's drivers, but how long has it's dual gpu cards and quad cards been out? This is my main issue with NVIDIA, with them it is always, well our card "could" be good, but you need to wait until we release better drivers in a few months. Why can ATi release a new card with new ram and the drivers work fine? Okay, well wait till ATI improves their drivers for this particular card, another argument that can go on and on and on every time new drivers come out.

I have seen the many comparisons between ATI and NVIDIA and IQ issues, and it has been shown ATI does better then NVIDIA, now the question is, do you notice it running past a wall trying to shoot someone down? No, most dont, but knowing, for a fact, that one company does better then another, does help incase you do want to stop and smell the flowers on yout way to the frag fest around the corner.

I have no intention on buying an x1950 card, my x1900 XT does me fine, if it doesnt i decided since i have an SLI board and once games become more dual core reliant, then SLI i shall go, as long as it is what will fill my needs at the time of purchase.

I do like to "play" a game, but more and more now i do enjoy sometimes just looking around, seeing and looking for details and often am impressed at what i see and find, so now i want those details to look good, of course the game play better be dam good too :D
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I can definately see that. Good points as well. I wanna try a 1950 in my rig to see what it can do......truth be told
 
Shocky said:
Can't comment as I've never owned a GT... But temps are very importent, yes the x19## can handle it but it wont be able to handle it when theres another core also at 90C+ right next to it... The main reason nvidia can use multiple gpus is because they run so cool.
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You assume that it cant handle the heat.
 
munkle said:
You assume that it cant handle the heat.
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Fine, go run a X19#0 at 120C and tell me what happens because there the kinda temps your going to reach.. unless they use watercooling which really isnt acceptable for a retail product... Then again the cooler the X1900 uses already isnt really acceptable for a retail product... :D

I don't think you really understand the kind of cooling you would need to cool two X19#0 GPU's.. It's just not going to happen.. :)
 
GDDR4 has the same temps and lower power consumption then GDD3, so the 1950 wont be hotter then the x1900 at full load.

if they put 2 on one pcb, do you not think they would improve the cooling, they wont use the current cooling obviously :rolleyes:

And remeber ATI, Rage Furry MaXX, one of the first retail cards out with 2 GPU's on it ? I think ATI is capable of doing dual gpu, but why should they when their new single core card is competing with a dual gpu card?
 
my take on the new lineup of ati gpu's:

revamping the low end = good move
x1950xt = very nice!
x1900xt 256MB = alright, could of done better...

on the x1900xt 256MB:

its a nice card and all but seeing how its a new card why didnt they put the new cooler on it? I was all set to buy that card but the hairdryer is a complete turn off. Im now looking at 7900GT 512MB cards.
 
MrGuvernment said:
if they put 2 on one pcb, do you not think they would improve the cooling, they wont use the current cooling obviously
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Like the GX2, clocks would also be reduced. R580 chips that don't bin XT or XTX clocks can drop down another level into this dual-card solution.

For clarification, the X1000 series cards can feasibly support fp16 HDR and multisampling out of the box, though we haven't actually seen this happen yet.
 
The new card doesn't seem all tha great, but that is just me & an honest opinion. Alot of people do make a huge deal about the HDR + AA that the ATI cards do, but a huge margain of them that I do know that do that are running there games no higher than 1280 x 1024. Since the performance hit is pretty noticable when trying to attempt that at much higher resolutions. I would prefer a SLI config at 1920 x 1200 or better with everything as maxed out as possible over having to settle at a lower resolution just to achive HDR + AA at a reasonable framerate. To me, the whole HDR+ AA deal is not a big deal at all to me. Maybe when the DX 10 cards hit & the overall performance improves it would be, but for now, its more of an feature that is used to defend the ATI cards performance. By next gen though, Nvidia might just have it implemented in there GPU's & that whole advantage ATI had would be thrown out the window. Always good to see what is in stored next though =).

-DarkLegacy
 
ManicOne said:
Serious Sam 2, FarCry, Oblivion, just to name names.
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Just read on another section that a game called "call to juarez" or something like that supports HDR+AA with Chucks patch. No idea what kinda game, just to add in the list.

@DarkLegacy

But thats just the thing. Remember Nvidias TNT cards? They could do 32bit colours where 3DFX cards could not. Sure they took a huge performance hit, but still they sold like hot cakes. Same happened with GeForce3 or 4 (dont remember which) with its Shader 2.0 support. It certainly could not handle SM 2.0 games but that did not stop Nvidia hyping it to the stratosphere. So there is the trend, with Advanced features or Speed crown one can PR it like a mad man :)
 
sam0t said:
But thats just the thing. Remember Nvidias TNT cards? They could do 32bit colours where 3DFX cards could not. Sure they took a huge performance hit, but still they sold like hot cakes. Why? More advanced features I guess.
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Exactly, and 3dfx got the shaft for that. 32bit was very unplayable at the time and at 16bit 3dfx was far better, but everyone ragged on the Voodoo3 for only having 16bit in 3D.
 
You are right =). Its funny to see each one trying to beat each other out. Although I respect Nvidia so much more for realeasing the 7950 as a great alternative to having to purchase a SLI board. There intentions were more widespreed & thoughful towards the gaming community as a whole. The new ATI card seems more like a feature beast. Kind of the attempt Nvidia took with there 5X line to play catch up. Im still holding out though. Draining all I can out of my 7900GT untl those DX 10 cards drop. That's when its gonna get real crazy =).

-DarkLegacy
 
Indeed these late refresh products do seem rather weird to me aswell, but who knows what goes on the heads of PR research people. My guess is that in ATI camp they did not want X1900 series to be remembered like a giant dust buster making your ears to bleed :D

But for late upgraders there sure are options now. As I have gotten past the crazyest upgrade frenzy, I shall too wait for not only next generation DX10 cards but the second generation DX10 cards (man what a monster phrase). :)
 
munkle said:
Why complain about the temprature, the cards can take it, what about the whole 7900gt thing, all the companys were overclocking them and the cards would not last very long, ati worries about stuff working right not money like nvidia.
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I find this comment kind of funny. So Nvidia only wants money ? And ATI doesn't ?

Fact of the matter is this. the 1950 XTX is a good card for the money it's going to cost (or at least, what's said to be the final price). But if you already own a single 7900 GTX or a single 1900 XTX, you won't gain that much in performance. Would be cheaper (and with a much greater gain in performance) if you just bought another 7900 GTX or 1900 XTX and use SLI / Crossfire respectively. If you own a 7950 GX2, the 1950 XTX is not even in consideration, unless you want a more complete feature set, because in performance, the GX2 is a better card.

About the HDR+AA issue, I don't see the big fuss about it. G70 is what...more than a year old ? It can't do HDR+AA in some games, but the fact is ATI never beat Nvidia to the ground with their R520 and R580 chips, so Nvidia squeezed what they could out of this architecture. And their greatest achievement was 7950 GX2, which is an amazing card to own. But still limited by this "more than a year old" architecture.

ATI and Nvidia have great cards. To each his/her own when selecting which one to buy, I own a 7800 GTX 256 MB, not because I prefer Nvidia over ATI, but because when I bought it, ATI didn't have anything to compete with it and it was the best card in the market, so the choice was easy. Despite its hardware limitations in some games (especially Oblivion, which I still play), it's a great card and I can play with very good performance and IQ, even in the most recent games.

About the temperature and noise issues, of course they are important. My PC is on 24/7, so I couldn't think of owning a card that makes too much noise or that reaches high temperatures, even in idle. So Nvidia was the best choice at the time (and in these issues, it still is), even with the refinements done for the 1950 XTX.

It all depends on what you need. Both companies have great hardware and it's good to see competition. In the end, we win, because technology evolves and prices go down.
 
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