As expected, the "impossible" EmDrive doesn't work.

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https://www.grenzwissenschaft-aktue...e-engine-does-not-develop-any-thrust20210321/

“We found out that the cause of the ‘thrust’ was a thermal effect. For our tests, we used NASAs EmDrive configuration from White et al. (which was used at the Eagleworks laboratories, because it is best documented and the results were published in the ‘Journal of Propulsion and Power’.
With the aid of a new measuring scale structure and different suspension points of the same engine, we were able to reproduce apparent thrust forces similar to those measured by the NASA-team, but also to make them disappear by means of a point suspension."
 
I have no idea what I am reading but I am guessing this is what happened:

1.) They thought they discovered a way to move things in space without fuel
2.) The movement was caused by heat
3.) Heat doesn't exist in space so it is impossible
 
I have no idea what I am reading but I am guessing this is what happened:

1.) They thought they discovered a way to move things in space without fuel
2.) The movement was caused by heat
3.) Heat doesn't exist in space so it is impossible
Heat causes expansion of gas resulting in thrust. Heat exists in space its the lack of mass to accelerate that becomes an issue.

Ion drives work by accelerating a small amount of mass with alot of energy resulting in thrust.

Now we just need to figure out creating mass with just energy :p
 
according to the 1978 popular mechanix article you just need to add a 1 mile Dia. magnetic intake funnel to the front of the thruster to gather the hydrogen atoms needed for fuel. ...and also and a push from a rocket to get it moving. ...completely doable!
 
Heat causes expansion of gas resulting in thrust. Heat exists in space its the lack of mass to accelerate that becomes an issue.

Ion drives work by accelerating a small amount of mass with alot of energy resulting in thrust.

Now we just need to figure out creating mass with just energy :p

According to relativity it's entire possible to make matter out of energy :) converting matter to energy is how all nuclear works and reactors do indeed occasionally convert energy into matter....even though we don't understand how :p

Would be something if we could figure that one out. Star Trek replicators :)
 
https://www.grenzwissenschaft-aktue...e-engine-does-not-develop-any-thrust20210321/

“We found out that the cause of the ‘thrust’ was a thermal effect. For our tests, we used NASAs EmDrive configuration from White et al. (which was used at the Eagleworks laboratories, because it is best documented and the results were published in the ‘Journal of Propulsion and Power’.
With the aid of a new measuring scale structure and different suspension points of the same engine, we were able to reproduce apparent thrust forces similar to those measured by the NASA-team, but also to make them disappear by means of a point suspension."

Well, they tried and that is what counts. Seems to me that the two ways we will move around is reaction mass and gravity manipulation. (All the Si Fi things I read seem to point in those two directions.)
 
Shame. Emdrive could have resulted into something cool if it had worked.
 
Trial and error during the testing/experimenting phase of the scientific method.

This may not be the absolute end to this. It'll probably be shelved for a long time while they go back to hypothesizing in order to make changes and tweaks prior to the next round of testing, as funding and personnel allocation allows.
 
Trial and error during the testing/experimenting phase of the scientific method.

This may not be the absolute end to this. It'll probably be shelved for a long time while they go back to hypothesizing in order to make changes and tweaks prior to the next round of testing, as funding and personnel allocation allows.
When your talking about projects like this there should be an it more thought and math that goes into it before prototypes are built up
 
When your talking about projects like this there should be an it more thought and math that goes into it before prototypes are built up
Yes and no.
Rapid prototyping is a thing and can lead to some huge leaps. Compare SpaceX Starship to NASA SLS...
 
Yes and no.
Rapid prototyping is a thing and can lead to some huge leaps. Compare SpaceX Starship to NASA SLS...
This was not that. Give me abunch of money and I'll make a cool device that promises thrust. When we are building devices that push theory into reality the theory must be solid first. Look at the race too nuclear arms. The theory was well established and massive amounts of resources were invested into the practice of bringing this theory too reality. That was before we had the reasorses to more easily predict the sucsess of a design. Rockets are a poor example. The theory is simple and the difficault lies in the engineering project. There are many ways to go at this complex engineering task but normally more thought and development goes into it then just lets build this and maybe it will work.
 
according to the 1978 popular mechanix article you just need to add a 1 mile Dia. magnetic intake funnel to the front of the thruster to gather the hydrogen atoms needed for fuel. ...and also and a push from a rocket to get it moving. ...completely doable!
The initial impulse isn't actually the issue; if you get out of the gravity well, you got that. At least some of it. It's... well, all the rest. :p
 
I have a solution. Use magnetism. NASA you're welcome!

Like this...but much, much larger. Much like the asteroids that move around space & our own planet orbits the sun.
 
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I have a solution. Use magnetism. NASA you're welcome!

Like this...but much, much larger. Much like the asteroids that move around space & our own planet orbits the sun.


you sure magnatism keeps the earth going 'round the sun? Einstein said it was curved space but then what did he know ;) or did I misunderstand his Theory of Relativity papers?
 
you sure magnatism keeps the earth going 'round the sun? Einstein said it was curved space but then what did he know ;) or did I misunderstand his Theory of Relativity papers?
I probably mistook magnetism for gravitational fields.

Still though, they should try to use magnetic propulsion.
 
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I probably mistook magnetism for gravitational fields.

Still though, they should try to use magnetic propulsion.
you're forgiven :) but I can't speak for Albert, might wanna keep an eye out for him when you're sleeping
 
lol

May I present to you: THE SUN
A clever chap with a clever quip :) . ...but actually he is right. heat is generated when the light photons strike something that has mass and energy is released. A cubic foot of space may contain 1 hydrogen atom which may have measurable heat ...but empty space does not.
 
A clever chap with a clever quip :) . ...but actually he is right. heat is generated when the light photons strike something that has mass and energy is released. A cubic foot of space may contain 1 hydrogen atom which may have measurable heat ...but empty space does not.
Does empty space exist? Any excited matter has heat and I believe it is difficult to define exactly what can be included with "matter"
 
Does empty space exist? Any excited matter has heat and I believe it is difficult to define exactly what can be included with "matter"

maybe not entirely empty, but given the vast distances in space there is definately a point where so little exists it may as well be nothing.

The next great breakthrough will probably have something to do with understanding and unifying quantum physics, physics, and the nature of space-time and electro-magnatism as interrelating forces.
 
maybe not entirely empty, but given the vast distances in space there is definately a point where so little exists it may as well be nothing.

The next great breakthrough will probably have something to do with understanding and unifying quantum physics, physics, and the nature of space-time and electro-magnatism as interrelating forces.
Does so little exist or is what occupies that space distributed in such a way to appear as nothing compared to the condensed matter we are used to. I see no reason what does exist couldn't be described using heat levels as a measure of energy.
 
Empty space does not exist.
on any scale? Im not claiming it does, but it would be interesting to "stretch" matter or energy throughout space in such a way to leave no empty space on any scale.
 
Shame space doesn't get the same push other areas get... probably could have a warp drive by now
 
According to relativity it's entire possible to make matter out of energy :) converting matter to energy is how all nuclear works and reactors do indeed occasionally convert energy into matter....even though we don't understand how :p

Would be something if we could figure that one out. Star Trek replicators :)
Matter is structured energy. The issue is doing this without universe-altering mechanics without being so technologically advanced as to not need such universe-altering effects.

From a practical point of view, we have a higher chance of simulating negative mass vs actually constructing a quark for an applied purpose.
Technically... we already can create quarks from basically raw energy and semi-selectively choose what is created. Google RHIC. Still it's beyond our lifetimes for this kinda stuff to be practical.
 
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