Are ATI and Nvidia collaborating?

[silverwolf0]

There's something I don't understand about the current state of gfx cards. For starters it seems like the past two or three generations, both ATI and Nvidia have made cards that could perform well in range with each other and therefore compete. I know there is the whole 9700pro bomb and other stuff but in general, the high ends always perform within +/-25% of each other and cards lower never really go beyond something like 200%+ in difference between competing cards. Now these numbers seem drastic and all, but considering you have two different companies that "supposedly" make new cores in highest secrecy; talent, manpower, and innovation will not always be equal and you will one day end up with a core that surpasses the competing solution by like 300%. Maybe I'm not understanding something here, but wouldn't opposing companies WANT to obliterate their opponents from the market with a card that will make them squeal? Why are these two companies so close? Is there some kind of business logic behind this that I haven't learned yet that makes having only small gaps in performance a mutual thing? I don't technology is the limiting factor. Maybe they need each other to survive? Are they making pacts? What about Intel and AMD? Same scenario.

 

[H-street]

its all about marketing and product life..

to put it in other terms..

don't blow it all in one place.


there is no reason for one company to outperform another by 300% when 10% will suffice enough to boost sales...

as Company A releases product.. you release yours that is slightly faster/better, just enough to get the sales and warrant the higher price..

the current scene is not driven by innovation.. but by marketing and $$$

 

[robberbaron]

There are still a lot of obstacles in the way of making super fantastic insane cards that blow the current competition out of the water, such as affordable high speed memory.

But I have thought about what the OP said a lot lately and agree that it's... a little suspicious. When you come down to it though, they really dont need to obliterate the competition, since the competition can just as easily retaliate, and then what? We'll have to wait a few years for an improvement.

 

[Hate_Bot]

Because even if they have diffrent tech, they both still use the same ways to manufacture there chips, they can only advance as far as the chip makers can.

 

[geekcomputing]

i cant remember where i read it but nvidia and ati did have a meeting where they tried to lay out general 'rates' or 'speeds' for cards.... supposdly the meeting fell through as they could not agree.

really what i think it comes down to is that both companies probably practice some form of espeniage (sp?) on each other by spying, watching for patents issued and such.

plus they are both generally working w/ the same material ... aka size of fabs, waffers, etc etc.

where the differences lay are in what kind of risk you want to take ,,,, what kinda of price you think you can command per chip,, and how much demand you will get.

but yes.. nvidia has hands down won this generation w/ pixel shader 3.0 and SLI. and not to mention ati has had some horrible supply problems and defects.

next generation will be interesting to see what occurs.

 

[Gorankar]

There are days when I actively believe NV & ATI are engaged in price fixing.. But, I have been known to be paranoid at times..

In all seriousness I think they both hold back a little here and there.. Trying to give us just as little as we will accept in a product.. Just a little more for the dollar than the competitor is giving.. While still profiting as much as possible.. Just like any other corporation in existence..

 

[abudhu]

Its all about Markets. Technology is a market and Nvidia and ATI are members of that market. A market is meant to sell a product to the consumer for as little as possible while still maintaining a +% increase in profits. Like the first responder said, if a 1% increase in production value will yield an increase of 2% profit while on the other hand a 10% increase will yield the same increase in profit why would you make that huge jump? It would not be a financially sound move on the part of the company in any way. Make tenS of thousandS of dollars upgrading slowly or make JUST ten thousand dollars with a massive leap that we will be hard pressed to upgradei n the next quarter.

Its all about the $$ man. Its what drives the market and this society.

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

Just look at AMD and Intel...
Did it ever occur to you that both ATI and Nvidia are actually trying to get out the best product without charging us up the wazoo? They are doing their best... and their best just happens to compete with one another so closely. Look at the other graphics card companies... their cards are so inferior. There's your superior solution that surpasses the competition's by 300%.

 

[Sly]

really what i think it comes down to is that both companies probably practice some form of espeniage (sp?) on each other by spying, watching for patents issued and such.

Like the time they x-rayed the cards to see what's inside the competition's chip? I didn't even think that was possible

 

[silverwolf0]

Haha don't tell anyone but I would always go in for roll during econ class in the auditorium with 100+ students and then run out the side door REAL fast when the guy's back is turned. Well considering all the other cards (e.g. parhelia and other ones I can't think of right now) are so significantly behind the competition, would not either ATI or Nvidia want to take this opportunity to dominate the market since there is only one other competitor? Or would this be monopolizing? It's not like Nvidia is sticking driver bombs when their drivers are uninstalled. I dunno but my ignorant self would go for the kill...

 

[abudhu]

would not either ATI or Nvidia want to take this opportunity to dominate the market since there is only one other competitor?

Thats what they are trying to do, but thanks to markets and supply and demand, and PEOPLE a monopoly will not occur. The people want the best product for as little as they can get it, and Always want Choice. So, with ATI and NVIDIA competiting for a #1 position they are making great products, and lowering their prices for the consumers, and they still offer choice.
Besides, don't you think ALL companies try to dominate their market? Of course they do. Its just really really hard.