Apple Set To Back Blu-ray?

w1retap said:
Spin it how you want. ;) Blu-ray isn't "winning" either if it is losing ground to a "losing" format.
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Only thats not happening..because PS3s, which are the defacto bluray player that everyone buys, sell at a much faster rate than the entire hd-dvd hardware lineup combined. Even 10% of PS3 owners buying movies continues to assure it wins, and will continue winning by a 2x and 3x ratio every week.

Whoever is telling you hd-dvd is gaining ground is wrong. If you cared to look at actual facts and figures, instead of spouting rhetoric you'd know this.
 
Nothing wrong with it? 2 extra layers of DRM on top of what HD DVD has doesn't bother you? What about movies with region coding? Neither does changing profiles so poeple with older players are left in the dust with non-working features in the movies? What about the java mess that causes movies to reset in the middle of playing, or even prevents them from playing at all on some first gen players?

All the numbers you can throw out are null. The Neilsen numbers show HD DVD taking away precious ground from BR month after month. CES is going to hold some interesting moves as well. ;) :D
 
w1retap said:
Nothing wrong with it? 2 extra layers of DRM on top of what HD DVD has doesn't bother you? What about movies with region coding? Neither does changing profiles so poeple with older players are left in the dust with non-working features in the movies? What about the java mess that causes movies to reset in the middle of playing, or even prevents them from playing at all on some first gen players?

All the numbers you can throw out are null. The Neilsen numbers show HD DVD taking away precious ground from BR month after month. CES is going to hold some interesting moves as well. ;) :D
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No, the extra 2 layers of DRM don't bother me. The requirements have long been established for playback.

Movies with region coding bother you? Then I hope you never played a damn dvd, because dvds were region coded too champ.

Changing profiles? lol...you mean like HD-DVD introducing a 51gig format which will only "supposedly" be compatible with older players? Java itself doesnt break playback on older bluray players, you simple cant use java enhanced features, you can watch movies fine.

You've moved me to go ahead and gather the Nielsen numbers myself to make you look completely and totally stupid. This will take awhile as I get them all, so you hold tight, and loosen your ass cheeks a bit. Its coming.
 
bpahrens said:
Everyone here seems very focused on the the format in regard to movies. Either format has enough capacity for that. I bet you would have a hard time telling which looks better, same title, same TV (I know this is hard to find, Planet Earth series comes to mind).
This is a good move in terms of capacity. Anyone doing digital video along with all of other gigabyte eating files will appreciate 50GB on a single dual layer disk vs. 30GB for HD-DVD. I know Toshiba is working on getting triple layer 51GB but then Sony an TDK are working on a 8 layer 200GB.
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Too bad you'll never be able to play an 8 layer Blu-Ray disc in a Blu-Ray player because they only support 2. The 51 GB Triple layer HD-DVD is done but needs to be tested on existing players, even so, 45GB triple layer HD-DVD will work on ALL HD-DVD players. An added bonus as the HD-DVD group finished their spec before they started building players.

Specs won't win in the end, profit margin will. If studios see one format or the other being more profitable the game is over.

Any yes, I'll be quite happy to put a combo Blu-Ray/HD-DVD drive in my PC if I choose to do so.
 
Love-Man said:
"Hi, I'm a Mac"
"And I'm a PC"
"Hey PC, did you hear I got this cool new Blu-ray player that makes me wicked-super-cool?"
"That's nice, I can have Blu-Ray, HD-Dvd, or both."
"Ohh..."
I love having choice. :D
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You have the choice for Mac or PC, or neither and get a stand alone :rolleyes:

teenk said:
And how many of those were actually PS3s that we're counted as Blu-Ray units?
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And how many people bought a PS3 to just play Blu-Ray movies since it was the cheapest player when it came out?

Counting all the PS3 and not counting any will both return invalid results, as there are those who use them for gaming only, those who use them for movies only, and those who do both.
 
http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/VideoScan/ feel free to do your own searches.

Week Ending Blu-Ray HD-DVD
12/16 61% 39%
12/09 76% 24%
12/02 58% 42%
11/25 72% 28% <--black friday week.
11/18 66% 34%
11/11 65% 35%
11/04 71% 29%
10/28 55% 45%
10/21 51% 49%
10/14 71% 29%
10/07 68% 32%
09/30 54% 46%
09/23 63% 37%
09/16 61% 39%
09/09 60% 40%
09/02 56% 44%
08/26 68% 32%
08/19 71% 29%
08/12 66% 34%
08/05 62% 38%
07/29 66% 34%
07/22 74% 26%
07/15 61% 39%
07/08 66% 34%
07/01 65% 35%
06/24 70% 30%
06/17 64% 36%
06/10 66% 34%
06/03 61% 39%
05/27 69% 31%
05/20 58% 42%
05/13 62% 38%
05/06 60% 40%
04/29 71% 29%
04/22 52% 48%
04/15 61% 39%

Feel free to find pre-april yourself. It doesn't look any different. There are fluctuations week to week based on released content..but there has yet to be a winning week all year long in 2007 for hd-dvd.

Keep in mind, HD-DVD *was* winning before the PS3 launched, and has done nothing but lose since.

How does your hole feel?
 
Love-Man said:
"Hi, I'm a Mac"
"And I'm a PC"
"Hey PC, did you hear I got this cool new Blu-ray player that makes me wicked-super-cool?"
"That's nice, I can have Blu-Ray, HD-Dvd, or both."
"Ohh..."


I love having choice. :D
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:p

I would LOVE to see that commercial!
 
I feel fine actually. :p

You are reporting week ending numbers. I am speaking of since inception. BR is giving up quite a bit of ground, and it is trending in favor of HDDVD. The Nielsen numbers show it. BR used be be outselling 3:1, then 2:1, now it is 3:2.
 
webdev511 said:
Too bad you'll never be able to play an 8 layer Blu-Ray disc in a Blu-Ray player because they only support 2. The 51 GB Triple layer HD-DVD is done but needs to be tested on existing players, even so, 45GB triple layer HD-DVD will work on ALL HD-DVD players. An added bonus as the HD-DVD group finished their spec before they started building players.

Specs won't win in the end, profit margin will. If studios see one format or the other being more profitable the game is over.

Any yes, I'll be quite happy to put a combo Blu-Ray/HD-DVD drive in my PC if I choose to do so.
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Only you have no idea what you're rambling about:

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/11374.cfm
This week at the CEATEC JAPAN 2007 event, Hitachi announced that they had successfully created a quad layer Blu-ray disc that can store up to 100 GB of data.

To sweeten the pot even more, Hitachi says the discs are compatible with existing Blu-ray players and drives after an easy firmware update.
 
w1retap said:
I feel fine actually. :p

You are reporting week ending numbers. I am speaking of since inception. BR is giving up quite a bit of ground, and it is trending in favor of HDDVD. The Nielsen numbers show it. BR used be be outselling 3:1, then 2:1, now it is 3:2.
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Uh..only you're wrong. The numbers shifted TO bluray FROM hd-dvd after the release of the PS3.

Day Week YTD SI
01/07 63.3/36.7 63.3/36.7 41.2/58.8
01/14 68.2/31.8 65.7/34.3 43.2/56.8
01/21 67.8/32.2 66.4/33.6 45.1/54.9
01/28 68.8/31.2 67.0/33.0 46.7/53.3
02/04 69.0/31.0 67.4/32.6 48.1/51.9
02/11 69.6/30.4 67.7/32.3 49.3/50.7
02/18 65.0/35.0 67.4/32.6 50.3/49.7
02/25 68.5/31.5 67.4/32.6 51.5/48.5
03/04 65.7/34.3 67.2/32.8 52.2/47.8
03/11 68.7/31.3 67.9/32.1 52.8/47.2
03/18 81.7/18.3 69.2/30.8 54.3/45.7
03/25 n/a 70.4/29.6 55.6/44.4
04/01 n/a 69.9/30.1 56.2/43.8
04/08 62.4/37.6 69.4/30.6 56.4/43.6


the SI (since inception) numbers for the earliest part of the year reveal this.
 
w1retap said:
Change the graphs to "Show All", right now BR is the in the middle of a buy one get one free sale, so 24hr statistics are skewed.
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amazon numbers are worthless anyway. Its one site, and they dont detail how their own numbers are computed. You have no idea what the real difference in sales is between a product at #1 and a product at #5.
 
neilsonhdmarketsharejunwh9.jpg


As you see...right after the PS3 launched.
 
I must be mistaken then. I was just going off of the Nielsen numbers according to Blu-ray.com forum members. Maybe you should go over there and set them right. :p
 
Ethug said:
amazon numbers are worthless anyway. Its one site, and they dont detail how their own numbers are computed. You have no idea what the real difference in sales is between a product at #1 and a product at #5.
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Amazon really can't be ignored because they sell pretty large volumes of the high def movies, and that is the number one place where people buy their HD movies online.
 
w1retap said:
Amazon really can't be ignored because they sell pretty large volumes of the high def movies, and that is the number one place where people buy their HD movies online.
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He means you can't use them as an all knowing source because the difference between #1 and #2 could be 1 movie or 4,000 movies. (I think anyway)
 
w1retap said:
Amazon really can't be ignored because they sell pretty large volumes of the high def movies, and that is the number one place where people buy their HD movies online.
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Sure, they can't be ignored, but I would rather them give their figures to a 3rd party than put up meaningless #1 thru #whatever slots. When you have no idea what the real figures are, those slots just don't mean much.Its like those old graphs Apple used to put up with a mysterious baseline fps for a game then "24%faster 59%faster" etc. If you have no idea what the relationship between the numbers actually means, what is it worth?
 
Ignore it then. I never even mentioned Amazon, someone else did. I merely said they move pretty large volumes of movies.
 
Ethug said:
bingo.
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Anyway, I'm out. This kind of thread just causes me to come off like an asshole and I really don't want to be an asshole. I have like 500 dvds. I love movies. I just don't see hd-dvd winning when its losing everywhere in the world including here in the US. I would rather the fight be over as fast as possible so I can buy in and enjoy movies. I don't want multiple formats.
 
Winning would be Blu-ray totally dominating sales. For having 2+ million more players out there, Blu-ray should have the Nielsen numbers at like 85/15 or more. An attachment rate favoring HD DVD 5-fold is pretty embarrassing. If I was on the BDA, I'd call sales at 3:2 unacceptable.
 
Boy, bad idea. I own players for both formats (360 for HD-DVD and PS3 for BluRay), but as a videophile who owned frigging laserdiscs for 10 years it was going to happen for me anyway. But to nail down a format with there still being uncertainty out there, again, bad idea.

I mean, I understand it now that Steve Jobs is on the Disney board due to the Pixar deal and is their largest shareholder (and Disney/Pixar is 100% BluRay), but come on. This format war is absolutely ridiculous. The best encoded films on both formats look amazing, and all this war does is to slow down adoption of the physical HD format which was already going to be a hard sell to the majority of people who still think DVD looks good (ugh).

The one plus is that BluRay has higher storage capacity than HD-DVD, so for non-movie applications like archiving data, that is an advantage. Otherwise, eh.

Affordable HD-DVD/BluRay combo players/recorders please.
 
w1retap said:
Winning would be Blu-ray totally dominating sales. For having 2+ million more players out there, Blu-ray should have the Nielsen numbers at like 85/15 or more. An attachment rate favoring HD DVD 5-fold is pretty embarrassing. If I was on the BDA, I'd call sales at 3:2 unacceptable.
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You're counting *every* PS3 when you simply can't do that. There may only be 5% or 10% of PS3 people buying movies, but buying an awful lot of them. I think the big plus is that that leaves a lot of room for growth with people that already have hardware in place to purchase movies.
 
Except Disney might not be a very safe bet on staying format exclusive either. They were the only member in the BDA that voted on the HD DVD 51GB TL disk, and voted to accept it as a viable option to release their movies on in the future.
 
BladeVenom said:
It seems kind of stupid for Apple to go Blu-ray. They should want videos to be digitally distributed through iTunes. It would be in their best interest if both formats failed, like what happened with the newest audio formats SACD and DVD-Audio.
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Except that downloaded and streamed HD videos look significantly worse than they do on physical HD formats. There will be a market for both; people who want fast and convenient vs those who want the best video and audio quality.
 
Ethug said:
You're counting *every* PS3 when you simply can't do that. There may only be 5% or 10% of PS3 people buying movies, but buying an awful lot of them. I think the big plus is that that leaves a lot of room for growth with people that already have hardware in place to purchase movies.
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Well yes, the PS3 is a Blu-ray player. One of the best and most flexible platforms for BR out there IMO.
 
w1retap said:
Well yes, the PS3 is a Blu-ray player. One of the best and most flexible platforms for BR out there IMO.
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And it would be like counting all xbox 360's as HD players because you can buy the addon if you want to watch HD-DVD with them.

Like I said before; You can't count all of the PS3's sold as players, and you can't say that none of them are either. How many are used exclusively as Blu-ray players is a number we will never know.
 
jmackay said:
And it would be like counting all xbox 360's as HD players because you can buy the addon if you want to watch HD-DVD with them.

Like I said before; You can't count all of the PS3's sold as players, and you can't say that none of them are either. How many are used exclusively as Blu-ray players is a number we will never know.
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Actually it wouldn't. The PS3 already includes the BR player. The Xbox 360 does not. You can also only play movies on the 360 addon, so those are counted as standalones in sales figures.
 
w1retap said:
Actually it wouldn't. The PS3 already includes the BR player. The Xbox 360 does not. You can also only play movies on the 360 addon, so those are counted as standalones in sales figures.
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I know, but you are counting all PS3's as Blu-ray players. Technically they are, but not all will be used to watch blu-ray movies, just gaming systems. If the blu-ray was an option, you could count it, but because its part of the system you can't say all PS3 owners buy Blu-ray movies.
 
jmackay said:
And it would be like counting all xbox 360's as HD players because you can buy the addon if you want to watch HD-DVD with them.

Like I said before; You can't count all of the PS3's sold as players, and you can't say that none of them are either. How many are used exclusively as Blu-ray players is a number we will never know.
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The PS3 comes with BluRay playback in the box, so they are technically BluRay players. For a long time they were considered the very best ones on the market. The 360 doesn't come with HD-DVD playback in the box, not the same thing.
 
jmackay said:
I know, but you are counting all PS3's as Blu-ray players. Technically they are, but not all will be used to watch blu-ray movies, just gaming systems. If the blu-ray was an option, you could count it, but because its part of the system you can't say all PS3 owners buy Blu-ray movies.
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Actually, they are Blu-ray players. I just saw a Sony PS3 commercial in HD yesterday that said so.
 
w1retap said:
Actually, they are Blu-ray players. I just saw a Sony PS3 commercial in HD yesterday that said so.
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jmackay said:
I know, but you are counting all PS3's as Blu-ray players. Technically they are, but not all will be used to watch blu-ray movies, just gaming systems. If the blu-ray was an option, you could count it, but because its part of the system you can't say all PS3 owners buy Blu-ray movies.
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^^

You are saying that every PS3 owner is a blu-ray movie watcher by including every PS3 in with the blu-ray players vs HD players vs how many movies are sold to each.

What I am trying to point out is that the PS3 has the option to show blu-ray movies just like the xbox 360 has the option (though you have to buy an extra part) to show hd-dvd movies. So counting every gaming system as a HD capable player is skewing the facts, just like not counting any of them does.
 
If something has the exclusive ability out of the box to play the new format movie, that would be considered a player. Buying another add-on part for $130+ is not.
 
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