Apple: Do Not Confirm/Deny or Remove Malware

Darth Millennial said:
Hate to say it Steve but it's probably Microsoft policy as well not to support mal-ware related events on standard support calls. :( The caveat to that is that Microsoft finally released Security Essentials so at least they started acknowledging the problem firsthand.
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Incorrect. MS offers free telephone support for all security issues, retail or EOM. And MS acknowledged the issue long ago. XP SP2 was the point when MS changed it's securtiy practices and put a massive emphasis security updates.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/129972/en-us
 
I like my Apple computers and even I have to say they way they are treating this is really bad.
 
Chibo said:
I like my Apple computers and even I have to say they way they are treating this is really bad.
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And why can't it just be as simple as that? No... we have to get the fanboy drivel about how it just works and they have a better reason to do it this way if this is the way they handle the things the way they do.

Pullleeze...
 
Viruses? What viruses. I assure you, there are no viruses.

Baghdad-Bob.jpg
 
niconx said:
I wonder what the real reason is for this wide reaching policy of totally ignoring malware. Maybe Apple wants an excuse to lock OSX the same way it locks iOS? For the children.
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Because showing up error messages is inelegant. Remember what they did to plugin icons on their mobile safari?

"Out of sight, out of mind" is what their policies are based on.

animosity said:
Today I learned Microsoft offers free support for viruses. What now Apple?
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You didn't know about MSE?
 
When I worked for Applecare this would've been a clear case to RTV (Refer to 3rd party software Vendor), so actually suggesting a search on malware instead is a major step forward...from referring them to the virus maker.

It must be pretty bad for them to even acknowledge the concept of malware on an Apple.
 
There's no love lost between me and Apple, but I can't help but think that this is being misconstrued.
There's an issue of culpability for Apple here.

Plenty of folks have talked about how uneducated so many of the Apple store "Advisors" are.

So put yourself in Apple's posistion:
You've got a truckload of know-nothing Mac drones working at your stores.
You've touted the lack of virus/malware issues on Macs for year, so there's a good chance that the above drones will be totally clueless when it comes to dealing with malware.
You as a company are liable for the actions of those drones, since you cannot hide behind a 3rd party; they're YOUR employees.

So, if there's a spate of malware complaints at the local Apple store or through Applecare's 1st tier, there's a huge chance that one of those drones will say or do something that could end up costing you a ton of problems.

In that scenario, I would expect any company to take similar action.
They may word things differently, but they would still basically tell the peons to keep their opinions to themselves.
 
An anti Apple post from Steve? Say it ain't so!!

Anyway, this sounds like common procedure to me.

-Do not confirm or deny that any such software has been installed.

Makes sense. How could the support rep verify this without looking at the computer?

-Do not attempt to remove or uninstall any malware software.

Absolutely. The last thing they want is a support rep (not a technician, btw) to much up someones computer by having them screw around in terminal.

- Do not send escalations or contact "TIer 2" for support about removing the software, or provide impact data.

See above. Don't waste the time and money trying to have someone talk the end user through it.

-Do not refer customers to the Apple Retail Store. The ARS does not provide any additional support for malware.

They are all handled by 3rd party software solutions. Apple doesn't support this for obvious reasons.

Nice snippet. You forgot this which was just above it.

1. Make sure Mac OS X is up to date. (Includes security fixes)
2. Direct customer to a document explaining malware. (paraphrasing)
3. Explain that Apple doesn't make recommendations for specific software and to go to the Mac App Store and find an antivirus. (paraphrasing)

So yeah, that is the absolute appropriate solution. No news here.
 
Matalim said:
How is malware Apple's responsibility? It's the user's fault that they entered their password when asked if they REALLY want to run the installer.
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+1 This isn't a Mac issue. If you F'ed up your box, regardless of the label on the outside, it is your responsibility, not the company who made it.
 
artimusbill said:
+1 This isn't a Mac issue. If you F'ed up your box, regardless of the label on the outside, it is your responsibility, not the company who made it.
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Yet people shit on "PCs" and Microsoft for the same problem. These are people F'ing up their own boxes due to stupidity, cluelessness and/or misleading scary popups that tell you to install (Mac/Win) Defender AntiMalwareVirus 20(XX)...

The real issue is simply... the shoe is on the other foot.

im-a-pc-apple.jpg


Get used to it, boys. You want to be part of the big leagues? Everything you shit on PC users for is going to be old news to us when it's a regular thing for you.
 
artimusbill said:
+1 This isn't a Mac issue. If you F'ed up your box, regardless of the label on the outside, it is your responsibility, not the company who made it.
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When you take your box in to get serviced/repaired it's their responsibility to fix it for a price, not sit on their asses because they lack the training required to do their job. Any machine should get repaired by a certified technician regardless of damage to hardware or software.

If Apple was a corporation like IBM, with policies like this they wouldn't last a year.
 
i'm as anti-apple as the next guy but i think the approach here is "we're not doing anything until we have a fix we're 100% positive works" because far too often malware fixes for PCs don't completely remove the malware or they remove something important and the result is that the PC is never quite the same.

apple maintains a closed-loop software system so they have absolutely no excuse if it's not 100% stable. that stability is their only saving grace these days - i'd be cautious too.
 
-PK- said:
If Apple was a corporation like IBM, with policies like this they wouldn't last a year.
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every software company operates this way. if there's a bug, you may be able to offer a workaround but for the most part you say, as nicely as possible, "deal with it until we release a fix"
 
demografik said:
every software company operates this way. if there's a bug, you may be able to offer a workaround but for the most part you say, as nicely as possible, "deal with it until we release a fix"
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Bug?

This isn't a software bug. This is fucking in-the-wild attack malware affecting Macs.
 
brywalker said:
-Do not confirm or deny that any such software has been installed.

Makes sense. How could the support rep verify this without looking at the computer?
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Its called technical support, Malware is common and well documented. If they need help with coming up with a list of questions to identify it. I'm sure they can find numerous places on the web or they could ask a company that has lot of experience with it. I don't know.. Microsoft.

brywalker said:
-Do not attempt to remove or uninstall any malware software.

Absolutely. The last thing they want is a support rep (not a technician, btw) to much up someones computer by having them screw around in terminal.
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Apple Care reps are trained in Technical support. That is what Apple is claims to offer when someone calls in with and issue. As quoted from Apple Care Faqs page.

A one-year limited warranty and 90 days of complimentary telephone technical support are provided with your Mac, iPad, iPhone, Apple display, or Apple TV. iPod coverage includes a one-year limited warranty and a single incident of complimentary telephone technical support.

IF they are not technical support than the customer is not getting what was agreed on at the time of purchise. Thats false advertising and could be used as a bases for a class action law suit. but really If you can not call the company that made the product who the hell are you suppose to call? If Apple does not take care of it. It will bite them on the ass later. Every major computer manufacture on the planet has had to learn this lesson the hard way. I guess its apples turn.

brywalker said:
- Do not send escalations or contact "TIer 2" for support about removing the software, or provide impact data.

See above. Don't waste the time and money trying to have someone talk the end user through it.
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Right, Leave your customers twisting in the wind. In the mean time someone may be stealing all of their information. Sony anyone?

brywalker said:
-Do not refer customers to the Apple Retail Store. The ARS does not provide any additional support for malware.

They are all handled by 3rd party software solutions. Apple doesn't support this for obvious reasons.
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Right, because a security issue being talked about in public is bad for Almighty Apples image. Really, Apple has been touting the lack of virus and malware on your systems for years. Time to pay the piper.

brywalker said:
Nice snippet. You forgot this which was just above it.

1. Make sure Mac OS X is up to date. (Includes security fixes)
2. Direct customer to a document explaining malware. (paraphrasing)
3. Explain that Apple doesn't make recommendations for specific software and to go to the Mac App Store and find an antivirus. (paraphrasing)

So yeah, that is the absolute appropriate solution. No news here.
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Nope not forgotten. Its the same lame response Microsoft had for years. Its the wrong response. Apple will learn this when it blows up in their face. It may not be this time but it will happen. Hiding it from your customers is never the correct thing to do.
LOL number 2. is great...
Directing a customer on an infected computer to go read a document and then go to an ONLINE store makes a whole bunch of sense.

Sure Mr./Mrs. Customer just enter that CC number right there. No its ok if the malware or virus is broadcasting it across the internet. We are sure that after paying our fees and other costs. The card will be maxed out and useless.:D
 
artimusbill said:
+1 This isn't a Mac issue. If you F'ed up your box, regardless of the label on the outside, it is your responsibility, not the company who made it.
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Apple wanted to be an all-in-one company... They're supposed to be an OEM, Software house, retail chain, and customer support center.

If Apple wanted to take on that responsibility, they should REALLY take it on instead of brick-walling customers in order to keep some pathetic facade.

Microsoft is only a software house.
 
You'd think it would be nothing for an apple genius to remove a bit of malware. I thought that was the point of those guys, if something goes wrong you can always drop it on their desk to get it fixed. I thought that was one of the reasons people paid more for the hardware.
 
Yeah, like trying to deal with any malware on the phone. The customer doesn't have the skills to follow your directions at all, or if they can it's too slow to get the job done in less than two days.

You can't do remote desktop connections in more than half the cases, because they figured out they had malware... WHEN THE INTERNET STOPPED WORKING! And even if you can connect remotely, half the tools required for removal of the rootkits and other crazy nasty crap that's loaded are too invasive and too sensitive to running programs like remote desktop software and kill your session during something critical.

It's MALWARE. It's made by CRIMINALS and is DESIGNED TO SCREW OVER THE NORMAL OPERATION OF A SYSTEM.

So, Apple, welcome to the real F'n world of a large installed user base. Now are you going to give your customers the total support that the insanely overpriced systems have always been touted as having? Are you going to be able to give up pocketing all that extra percentage that has been a freebie for the last decade that you havn't had to work for? Because here it comes. With success comes REAL TECH SUPPORT ISSUES! :p

It's not that I don't respect some of Apple's products. I use an Ipod touch. But as this malware problem increases their customers are finally going to figure out en masse that Apple is not a "nice" company at all.
 
"Apple Genius! Help me! I lost the important work documents I NEED for a meeting today, my family photos are gone, my music collection I bought off iTunes that iTunes isn't letting me redownload due to DRM issues and my computer won't boot any more! It just makes this hissying sound, a skull comes up and starts laughing at me over and over again while underneath an animated picture of a giant dildo attacking the guy from the Apple ads, Justin Long! plays over and over again!"

"Uhh...not an apple issue. Apple's don't get viruses so you must have done something wrong. I'm not permitted to help with virus related issues because they don't exist. Umm, you accidentally deleted your own data and must have installed another operating system."

"What?"

"I'm sorry. I can't help you."

"What? I paid $$$$ for this peice of crap"

"At least its a pretty polished peice of crap that comes in all white and weighs only 1.4 Kg so you should be able to get good distance should you decide to use your apple product as a projectile device."
 
wasn't surprised about the article (anything apple has become a no care shit for me nowadays). the first comment from an Apple fan really made my day though.

Comment title was "Makes Sense".

people are so ... lol
 
MajorDomo said:
You see, the thing is we all know Apple is completely impervious to any malware. That is a long held known fact. :D
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LOL QFT. I cant tell you how many apple idiots I used to get into arguments with about that. "Apples dont get viruses at least!" is the one that came up the most.
 
Computer companies don't support 3rd party software installs. Malware IS a software problem, so I don't fault Apple for not support it. Apple is growing in popularity, so I expect more and more problems like this in the future. Apples only responsibly is to patch its program to fix any holes. And Please don't cry me a river about if Apple didn't have the hole there in the first place crap because Windows have the very same problem and you don't see people holding them to the same standard.

The solution is simple; reload your computer and install a antivirus program. If your files aren't backed up then you're a dumb @$$ anyway.
 
tanviper said:
Computer companies don't support 3rd party software installs. Malware IS a software problem, so I don't fault Apple for not support it. Apple is growing in popularity, so I expect more and more problems like this in the future. Apples only responsibly is to patch its program to fix any holes. And Please don't cry me a river about if Apple didn't have the hole there in the first place crap because Windows have the very same problem and you don't see people holding them to the same standard.

The solution is simple; reload your computer and install a antivirus program. If your files aren't backed up then you're a dumb @$$ anyway.
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lulz another person who didn't read the article and then looks foolish with a comment about how this is OK because other companies don't do it either.

The article itself links to at least 3 different companies (MS, Dell and HP) who do support their users (some at a cost) with malware/virus removal.

Honestly, I'm not surprised by Apple doing this. They can't acknowledge an infection of any type otherwise their whole "we don't get viruses" bullshit is proven the lie we all know it is.
 
Matalim said:
In other news. Apple is ranked #1 in customer satisfaction. Imagine that.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/apple-dominates-pc-customer-satisfaction-hp-dell-acer-improve/39420

Hates gonna hate :)
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Heh...;) Every time these "customer satisfaction surveys" come up it should never be forgotten that they are not scientifically conducted surveys. They are marketing surveys turned in only by whomsoever wishes to turn them in. Their chief value is in marketing and as such they don't really inform us of anything meaningful.

And it also raises the question of why, if indeed "Apple is ranked #1 in customer satisfaction," that Apple's OS X computers account for only 1 out of every 20 personal computers sold in the world, year and year after year. That's right--19 out of every 20 personal computers sold in the world are not made and sold by Apple. Obviously, and without question, there is *something* about buying a Mac which turns off far more people than it turns on. The survey doesn't ask that question, of course ("If you did not buy a Mac, why didn't you?" ought to be a mandatory question in such surveys.) Even more striking is that fact that since in order to rank a Mac in "customer satisfaction" at all you'd have to own one, it would seem that the only people who either received these surveys or bothered to send them in were Mac owners. If that isn't a case of the fox guarding the hen house I don't know what is...;)

BTW, what does "Hates gonna hate," mean? Is that a clumsy and insulting way of insinuating that Apple is above criticism, and that all Apple criticism is invalid because it is nothing but "hate?" Surely not--please tell me I'm wrong about that--I really, really want to be wrong about that. Because if I'm right, then Apple as a cult these days is becoming worse and more irrational than it has ever been.

FYI, criticizing a company or a government for the policies, products and/or services it creates is an entirely accepted, historically mandated avenue of public discourse and has nothing whatever to do with "hate." In the US we don't call it "hate," we call it "freedom of speech."
 
TheToE! said:
LOL QFT. I cant tell you how many apple idiots I used to get into arguments with about that. "Apples dont get viruses at least!" is the one that came up the most.
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There is a reasonably large difference between "don't" and "can't". You could not reasonably argue the latter; you could, with some reason, argue the former.

Vermillion said:
Honestly, I'm not surprised by Apple doing this. They can't acknowledge an infection of any type otherwise their whole "we don't get viruses" bullshit is proven the lie we all know it is.
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To my recollection, they've never said that.
 
typical, Apple and its dedicated followers, head in sand, problem doesn't exist attitude

I have a mac book air, only for the size/weight and i used Win 7 90% of the time, I like OSX but the first time i actually need help and they play stupid like that id never buy it again, if they tell you its a problem and offer to atleast support the shit they sell for a fee thats fine but if they are going to leave end users to hang, end users arent coming back..brainwashed users excluded of course
 
if you are calling your PC manufacture because YOU got malware or a virus, then you deserve to be told all of this.
 
netsniper said:
if you are calling your PC manufacture because YOU got malware or a virus, then you deserve to be told all of this.
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Who else should you call? We here on this forum tend to forget that John Q. Public barely knows anything about PCs and calls the main tower the 'Hard Drive'. When 'Insert name of game here' doesn't work, do you call Nvida or AMD or Intel? No you contact the game manufacturer. Why should that be any different with this?
 
The Ox said:
MS provides free support for exactly that. See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/129972/en-us

From the bottom of that MS KB article:

How to obtain computer virus and security-related support
For United States and Canada
The computer safety team is available for computer virus and for other security-related support 24 hours a day in the United States and in Canada.

To obtain computer virus and security-related support, follow these steps:

1. Before you contact a support engineer, make sure that you run updated antivirus software and updated spyware removal software on the infected computer.

For more information about how to obtain a free computer safety scan, visit the following Microsoft Web site: http://www.microsoft.com/security/scanner/

For more information about antispyware software, visit the following Microsoft Web site: http://www.microsoft.com/protect/computer/spyware/as.mspx

2. Call 1-866-PCSAFETY or call 1-866-727-2338 to contact security support.

For locations outside North America

To obtain computer virus and security-related support for locations outside North America, visit the following Microsoft Web site: http://support.microsoft.com/common/international.aspx?rdpath=4
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If managed to obtain spy/malware and didn't want it, you are going to be able to accomplish this?
 
One of the cool things about building my own and using Windows is that I have to fiddle with it to make it work correctly. Or, as I want. If it messes up I know what to do about it. It might be satisfying to some to go out and by a new one. I like to play around with things.
Keep anything important stored in a safe place and everything else is easily enough handled.
 
I laughed at some of the dim witted comments in the original post, because no one read the article and it was right in front of them! So I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the people that are a click away didn't read the article either... Still, I'm having a pretty good laugh at some of their dim witted comments, as well!
 
netsniper said:
if you are calling your PC manufacture because YOU got malware or a virus, then you deserve to be told all of this.
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Disagree. I personally believe Apple should do malware removal on-site. If they want to charge a fee for it and have users sign liability waivers, that's fine, but I do believe they should take a more appropriate response to malware incidents.
 
phide said:
Disagree. I personally believe Apple should do malware removal on-site. If they want to charge a fee for it and have users sign liability waivers, that's fine, but I do believe they should take a more appropriate response to malware incidents.
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They do charge. When I bought my Macbook for college, the best buy rep (don't have an Apple store) said it would be a $45 charge to phone in for technical support after 15 days. Unless under AppleCare then it's covered but $45, efffff that...best to just walk into an Apple store if you have a technical question i guess..
 
Maverick1337 said:
They do charge. When I bought my Macbook for college, the best buy rep (don't have an Apple store) said it would be a $45 charge to phone in for technical support after 15 days.
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Then he lied to you. Probably not the first time a Best Buy employee has lied to a customer.
 
surfhick said:
If managed to obtain spy/malware and didn't want it, you are going to be able to accomplish this?
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Restart the computer and tap F8. All but a very small number of malware infections on Windows will allow an admin to run AV tools like rkill, Combofix and Malwarebytes in safe mode, and you can usually start a Crossloop or join.me session for remote support in safe mode, too. I average between 3 and 5 malware cleanups a week, and in the last year I've only had one infection that couldn't be cleaned through safe mode.
 
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