APPLE devolving a 32" 6k display for release this year

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Martha Stewart, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. thelead

    thelead 2[H]4U

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    Sounds like it will possibly use mini LED for the backlight as well.
     
  2. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

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    Micro LED is not a backlight technology. Micro LEDs is using an individual LED for each subpixel with no LCD.

    Mini LED is what they're calling the backlights for LCDs. They're just smaller LEDs so they can fit more of them for more zones. But not nearly as small as micro LEDs.
     
  3. bigbluefe

    bigbluefe Gawd

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    Probably won't support variable refresh or have some other catastrophic downside that makes it an overpriced paperweight.

    It's a computer monitor, so, you know, it can't actually be good.
     
  4. kasakka

    kasakka [H]ard|Gawd

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    Apple monitors are generally well liked when it comes to image quality. No, the new one will definitely not be high refresh rate or support variable refresh rate. It's a display aimed at designers etc, not gaming. Maybe it will have HDR support though but I think at 6K they are already pushing the limits of current connectors.
     
  5. gan7114

    gan7114 Limp Gawd

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    6K is an interesting resolution to settle on, and using such a non-standard resolution would be quite an Apple move if you ask me.

    If my math is correct, UHD 6K is 5760 x 3240. Putting that into a 31.6" size gives us 209 PPI. For people accustomed to using a 27" 1440p monitor, the scale of the UI would be nearly identical if scaled at 2.25x.
     
  6. DanNeely

    DanNeely 2[H]4U

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    At the point of going non-standard resolution I wouldn't be surprised if Apple does something at roughly 6000x3375. On a 31.5" panel that gives 218DPI, matching the DPI of their 27" 5k displays and keeping 2:1 scaling vs base model 27" 1440p displays.
     
  7. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    "devolving"? Did you mean "developing"?

    Anyway, on topic, the first article notes Ming Kuo stating that it will be a "6k3k" display, implying that it will be 2:1 ultrawide. Or another way of stating it is a compromise between 2:39:1 and 16:9 for people editing video in numerous aspect ratios. 2:1 is also known as Univisium. I personally like editing my videos in this format. In literal 4k pixel terms, it works out to 3840x1920 (2:1).

    For this monitor, I expect they'll adopt RED's 6k sensor resolution like the previous gen Red Weapon of 6144x3160, which is ~2:1. This is why there are numerous Netflix shows in this aspect ratio, as there are quite a few DP's on Netflix that prefer RED. This should make it slightly easier on the bandwidth starved DP 1.4, rather than going full 16:9 6k.

    The backlight seems to imply FALD. If true then this will be an HLG or Rec 2020/2100 editors dream. Regardless of FALD or no, I'm certain that this will support lots of high end color spaces. There is no other reason to re-enter the display market if they don't accomplish this.

    I am looking forward to what this does to the market. Granted no one on these forums will really appreciate it as mostly everyone one the [H] are gamers. But for someone like me that wants a great studio monitor, this will definitely make a splash. Generally speaking Apple has undercut high end manufacturers at the top end (Eizo/NEC) by around 1/3rd. I expect this will be the same and come in between $1000-$1500 (although realistically at the higher end of that range). If this (for some reason) also is 75Hz+ and has Freesync it will be a slam dunk for productivity with some moderate side gaming (for people not playing AAA titles or that are okay with dropping resolution/settings).

    EDIT: Some minor additional thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
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  8. DanNeely

    DanNeely 2[H]4U

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    FALD enabled on the desktop would be "interesting", I kinda doubt Apple would enable it by default though. While a 1000 zone backlight would be better than the 384 zone one AUO's gaming panels have it's still an ~0.6"x0.6" segment size; which would result in substantial haloing around a cursor. With Apple's reluctance to support features prior to a 'perfect' implementation being available I wasn't expecting them to enter the FALD market without something like a 5k or even 20k zone backlight. (The former being roughly a zone size equal to the height of a cursor, the latter the width of a cursor with the cursor being 2 segments high.)
     
  9. Lava Lamp Freak

    Lava Lamp Freak Limp Gawd

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    This has me very excited! If they do go with that resolution, it would allow for the macOS UI to be the perfect size with 2x scaling. With my 27-inch 4K display, macOS doesn't work well because 2x scaling makes everything too large, and if I change the option to have more space, the UI becomes fuzzy due to how Apple handles scaling.

    I feel 2:1 would be a great compromise between 2:39:1 and 16:9!
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  10. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    I agree. If they have better implementation, I think it's a possibility. But display cost has definitely stopped them from doing things in the past (OLED on phones as an example). FALD might just be too expensive for the pricing target they have in mind as a more practical reason as why they might not bother. They do have a direct relationship with LG (as their primary monitor display manufacturer, having invested 2.7B for OLED and also utilizing their panels for the past few gens of desktop displays as well as being one of two of their primary display provider on laptops). So I'm uncertain how much they can request LG to manufacture different custom displays types and also of course LG's ability to supply them in quantity.

    This 6k display no matter how it stacks is a custom panel, much like the LG Ultrafine, which is also found in the 5k iMac. So it will be interesting to see what they do with backlighting and color. I think for sure it will be true 10-bit (without dithering). Whether they get it to support HDR600 or HDR1000 will be the real question and of course how they will achieve the brightness/dynamic range to do so.

    EDIT: In terms of FALD on the desktop, it technically always "has to be on" as that's the backlight. But the discussion about whether or not HDR on the desktop would be present is the question. If anyone can make the software work "out of the box" seamlessly it's Apple. I think it's possible for them to have HDR enabled desktop as they start to program for it and create an HDR chain detection scheme (making sure everything in the visual chain can support HDR). But even as a transition point they could easily have apps that automatically have HDR switched on (like a switch in the code to simultaneously support SDR and HDR content, while also checking for the HDR chain).

    And I also agree that they would probably allow for it to be turned off as well in order to reduce eyestrain for those wanting to just type or web-browse or do office work. Still there are a huge amount of opportunities there, and I do think that Apple could be a pioneer in HDR in ways that Windows has left content producers wanting.


    If I get even 50% of these predictions right, I'll pat myself on the back. But honestly it's a crap shoot. It's Ming Kuo's analysis and my extrapolation based upon his information. I think my guesses are fair though, outside of FALD, which is probably a lot more shaky.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
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  11. professional loser

    professional loser n00b

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    Real designers don't use glossy screen. Pretend ones definitely do lol
     
  12. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    Undoubtedly 60 Hz terribleness.
     
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  13. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Eh, I found 4k at 31.5" to be tighter than 1440p at 27" when having them next to each other. I won't claim that my eyes are right, but I will say that if you're not sitting close, 6k at 31.5" is going to need good scaling.
     
  14. Sancus

    Sancus Gawd

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    Vaguely curious who is making the panel, but yeah, 60hz seems useless even on the desktop. I'm too used to 120hz smoothness to ever go back to 60hz, I'd even prefer 120hz for a fucking spreadsheet at this point.
     
  15. sethk

    sethk [H]ard|Gawd

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    Thunderbolt / usb-c? There are a couple of 4k mini led panels coming this year including high-hz panels.
    Apple is a proponent of 120hz with it being included on recent iphones and ipads so it’s not like they don’t see the benefit- may be a push for the GPU and bandwidth to have 6k120 as the refresh rate, though. Will have to keep an eye on this one.
     
  16. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    What you would prefer does not make 60Hz "useless" even for you
    Do you have 120Hz monitors at work?
     
  17. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    It’s okay. He never watches TVs, movies, or uses 99.99% of phones.

    To answer his real question, incredibly high likelihood that it’s LG.

    Really? They don’t work in light controlled environments with monitor hoods? Wow, that’s news to me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  18. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

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    99.9% of designers don't actually.
    They just work in a normal looking office with normal office lighting.

    And the ones that are super serious that work in a light controlled environment with a monitor hood aren't going to use what they would consider a low end display like this.
     
  19. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    I would venture to say that designers run the gamut of environments and displays. Which is why there is diversity in terms of products. If you want to be dismissive about a product that hasn’t event hit the shelves yet, that’s on you. But not everyone fits into your box of “what a designer” does.

    I fully expect that there will be production houses, photographers, videographers, colorists, and yes designers that will use this display. All? Of course not. But if there wasn’t a market interest, Apple wouldn’t bother.

    This stuff isn’t made in a vacuum. And Apple for sure is interested in profit. And a monitor like this is definitely going to be out of range for casual consumers. Likely it will fit mid to high end for the professions I listed. Not everyone is spending $5k on an EIZO ColorEdge. Or a PA series NEC.

    And to further that point, the iMac pro has definitely found a home in a lot of places as well as MacBook Pros, all of which have glossy screens.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  20. sparks

    sparks 2[H]4U

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    devolving...is that what they said ?

    ROFL
     
  21. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm not disagreeing. People will buy this monitor and I'm sure it will work out great for them. But they generally aren't the kind of people that use monitor hoods.
     
  22. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    Where I have a problem with your statements is how you blanket entire groups of people and their usage habits. If you agree that colorists, photographers, videographers, and designers will use this monitor, what are we even taking about?

    What is a “fake designer” to you? Why are all these groups limited by what you think they’re capable of using? Why would they or would they not use hoods?
     
  23. Sancus

    Sancus Gawd

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    Yes.

    A wildly stupid post even for this forum. TV and movies don't have movement controlled by me, which is when lower refresh rates tend to bother more. Of course, I would love to see HFR material become common. While it would be nice if more phones were 120hz, especially for scrolling, it's not like I'm somehow allergic to 60hz, using it on a phone for 10 minutes a day is minor. It's when I'm spending hours with a display, as you would with a work display, that I think it should be 120hz minimum.

    The only thing preventing 120hz from being standard is shitty low bandwidth connector standards and manufacturer laziness, as most panel technologies are easily capable of it these days.
     
  24. Gatecrasher3000

    Gatecrasher3000 Limp Gawd

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    Here is to hoping a cheap Korean version comes out.
     
  25. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    If you want to be pedantic, you don't control any of it. But what I consider garbage posting is coming into a thread and taking a crap on a product that wasn't designed for you, that you'd never buy anyway, and will also likely never bother to even see.

    If your biggest issue with doing office work is 120Hz, then count yourself as blessed. Most of the time when I see office drones they're stuck using a no-name brand (what the heck is Polyview?) and if they're lucky they're using a Dell or HP office monitor that's 5 years old where 120Hz doesn't even enter into the equation. If they were to be gifted with this monitor they'd be ecstatic. But it's also safe to say that most people who'd buy this monitor aren't people that would primarily just using Microsoft Office products. And even if it were, most don't care that their static object on their screen is updated 60 times or 120 times. "Scrolling smoothness" isn't nearly as much of a priority as eye strain and text clarity.

    This monitor is designed for artists and creators. You realize that Eizo Coloredge monitor I referred to in my other post wasn't a joke right? People spend nearly $6k on a monitor (2x-3x the cost of most users entire computer on this forum) that *gasp* only does 60Hz. Guess what, that monitor ain't for you either. Neither is any Coloredge monitor in general or any PA series NEC monitor.

    In fairness to you though, I fully expect a bunch of gamers on this forum to come in and complain that “no graphics card can run 4K 60 reliably” and “why then would anyone want 6k display?”


    R&D isn’t magically free. Scaling and production also aren't magically easy either. Producing tech in a lab isn't the same thing as en mass, especially when considering the tolerances necessary to do so. At the end of the day, these manufacturers are looking for competitive advantage and to make money. They are out to make a profit. Not to cater to your whims.

    People in the industry are struggling enough with ensuring that they have monitors that support their color spaces, have excellent uniformity, and are dead accurate. You prioritize 120Hz. The world doesn't revolve around you. And neither do these products that are designed for them.

    Edits: for clarity
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  26. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    Nice =)
    My only requirement for work monitor is IPS panel and preferably no PWM dimming on LED models. As one monitor use Dell 2001fp with CCFL and it is fine.
    I wouldn't write code or emails faster with >100Hz monitor anyway so what is the point...
     
  27. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Great. I can't wait for this ONE SINGLE PANEL being the only way to get this resolution on any commercially available screen.
     
  28. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    Better that then no option at all, no?
     
  29. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    For me? not really. I prefer to use my resolution to increase desktop area, not make things razor sharp. I'd like to see this resolution in a 65" monitor, and no, I'm not kidding.
     
  30. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't think you're kidding. But if this panel didn't exist, it wouldn't help your want of having it in a 65" display. However, you'll get your wish soon enough anyway. They're already pushing 8k in Japan, so I expect you'll have options from Sharp and Sony in the form of TVs in the next 1-2 years. Samsung and LG have also shown off 8k TVs.

    Like 4k before it, it will be expensive to buy into at first, but I expect that similarly the price will plummet as the tech matures. It won't be immediate, but I'd say inside of 5 years it should be "affordable" at the high end for people who want to invest into it.

    EDIT: added thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  31. gan7114

    gan7114 Limp Gawd

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    9-to-5 Mac has a great article that discusses the possibilities of a 6K display.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2019/02/19/apple-6k-display-video/amp/

    I agree with their assessment that 6K would be ideal to edit 4K video with, since it allows the video to be shown at 100% scale while not taking up much room, while plenty of room for video editing tools.

    upload_2019-2-20_19-43-30.png

    I also hope Apple gives plenty of connectivity options. The worst thing they could do is use something like USB-C. Since this will probably be marketed alongside the redesigned Mac Pro, my guess is Apple will need to utilize HDMI 2.1 or DP 1.4
     
  32. l88bastard

    l88bastard 2[H]4U

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    I use a 4k120hz 43" Mango and Predator X27 for work
    I use a Mango 4k120hz and Predator X27 for work
     
  33. Martha Stewart

    Martha Stewart Gawd

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  34. Sancus

    Sancus Gawd

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    It looks like an OK display. Fewer dimming zones the PA32UCX, and a much higher price though.

    But hey, you get 6K?

    I think this is really just a tool for video editors more than anything.
     
  35. Martha Stewart

    Martha Stewart Gawd

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    And...the best part. It doesn't come with a Stand LOL
     
  36. Sancus

    Sancus Gawd

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    Yeah the $1000 for stand or $200 just to have VESA compatibility is a ridiculous fuck you on a $5000/$6000 monitor. I mean even if I was an Apple fanboi, I would feel insulted by that.
     
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  37. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    Yeah, but its par for the course with Apple. I don't understand why so many people think its a great company when they pull shit like this.
     
  38. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    Pros will pay out the ass anyway so that's why they do it. If people wanted to save money there are plenty of other options. Apple is pretty much the only curated option for splurging and wasting your money with style so it's a good niche for them and they have to grab all the cash they can seeing as they're a big corp and all.
     
  39. Sitti_S

    Sitti_S n00b

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    For the price Apple is charging for this new monitor, it's got only 576-zone FALD. That's the same amount as upcoming new PG27UQX and X27. Asus and Acer upcoming 32 inch monitors are over 1000-zone FALD, and they costs $3000 and comes with good stand. Apple's monitor has brighter nit, but more local dimming zones make much greater difference in HDR, especially in dark scene with bright objects. And again at $5000, I can't believe Apple didn't give us HDMI 2.1 and DP ports but only thunderbolt.