Because Apple hasn't figured out a way to add touch screen support to OSX without ending up with something like Windows 8
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Apple Announces The iPad Pro
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Because Apple hasn't figured out a way to add touch screen support to OSX without ending up with something like Windows 8
What's even funnier is that my Windows tablet cost .. wait for it.... $99
That's for an entire tablet, not just a stylus.
Of course the iPad Pro is larger, and has a better screen, but I'd rather have an 8" Windows tablet, than just a stylus
I can't wait until some dweeb is holding up this 12" tablet to take pictures, while blocking the view of everyone behind them. It was bad enough with the regular iPad, can't imagine how many iDiots will think this makes a good camera, while blocking everyone else's pictures.
You are giving people too many ideas. Apple might come up with a smaller iPad that's basically just Note 5 at this rate.
heatlesssun
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Could be worse...
An alkaline AAAA battery in that pen will last for months even with heavy use. And while you won't find AAAA (not triple A, quadruple A) at the gas station, if you have a spare it take only seconds to change as opposed to waiting for charge. The batteries in top button, often referred to as the OneNote button because it opens OneNote when single clicked, even when the device is locked (takes a screen shot and puts it in OneNote when double clicked), should last for years and even if they die if you don't lose the ability to ink.
heatlesssun
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Because Apple hasn't figured out a way to add touch screen support to OSX without ending up with something like Windows 8
Which would be really bad since even Microsoft is past most of those issues with 10. Though there is a somewhat vocal crowd out there that bemoans 10 on tablets and think 8.1 is better. In some ways it is more elegant on a tablet than 10. The UI is overall more consistent, the tablet mode is a better approach that modern apps doing their on thing outside of the desktop even on a tablet if you use desktop apps on a Windows tablet.
It is a pretty complex thing to get right.
heatlesssun
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What's even funnier is that my Windows tablet cost .. wait for it.... $99
That's for an entire tablet, not just a stylus.
Of course the iPad Pro is larger, and has a better screen, but I'd rather have an 8" Windows tablet, than just a stylus
It is pretty impressive how well Windows 8 and now 10 scales across devices of varying degrees of size and cost. I think that's why 8 was necessary if poorly executed. An operating system should scale to the device it's on. Microsoft is that close to getting this almost right with 10.
heatlesssun
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And sometimes life does imitate art. This is so funny and prescient simultaneously it's scary. It was written in 2012 BTW after the launch the Surface: http://hijinksensue.com/comic/surface-tension/
It's overpriced, but it's not a throwaway aluminum stick with a conductive pad at the end.
It's a transmitter/receiver with pressure sensitivity, similar to ones Wacom digitizer tablets use. It probably costs around $10 to manufacture, assuming it's well made.
heatlesssun
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Well in typical Apple fashion they are really marking stuff up. $40 more for they Type Cover, excuse me Smart Keyboard Cover with no trackpad and I don't believe it's backlighted either. And $50 more for essentially the same type of pen tech as is in the SP3. Without the Bluetooth transmitter.
What's going to make or break this device will be the pen experience and its probably going to be very good and for the crowd that would appeal to $100 for the pen isn't a big deal.
No more "Big Tom" sales left in the hopper. Jobs could have created a market for this, but without him it just seems desperate and reactionary, much like the iWatch. Jobs had the innate ability to make consumers believe everything was an original idea.
Part of the transition of the more informed consumer is a direct result of the iPhones, give instant access to information to everyone. Sure a large number of brainwashed Apple fans will line up, but folks this is nothing new and we may be seeing the beginning of the end.
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Zarathustra[H]
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Able to run full desktop OS or gtfo.
heatlesssun
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I think the iPad Pro couldn't make more sense.
1. The tablet market is projected to contract this year overall for the first time ever, around 8% according to IDC, around the same as the conventional PC market. The iPad has been especially hard with double digit contraction year over year to date for a while now. The days of sustained growth in $500 consumer media consumption are pretty much done for everyone.
2. Lager Windows tablets and hybrids while still a small market are seeing very high growth. Further more they sell at higher prices, $500+ in that market is not a big deal.
3. Apple had to have something other than an incremental revision of it's current iPad line up given current sales trends. While not a true hybrid I see this device given it's pen capabilities having strong appeal with artists and designers who aren't looking for an Swiss Army Knife device like a Surface Pro. That's a very big group in the old tablet PC world that's pretty loyal and will spend the money. It'll have a tougher time in the business and student worlds because it's got a lot of good competition at good prices with devices that are more flexible.
heatlesssun
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The thing is that Jobs was such a vocal opponent of pens on tablets I don't know if he wouldn't have come across any differently especially if iPad sales were as they are. Even a marketing genius like Jobs isn't always right. Given the history of Tablet PCs and pen tech in 2010 when the first iPad launched his points about pens weren't exactly off base. But things get better and pen tech and apps have been maturing for a very long time now.
kbrickley
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I like Monopolies as much as the next person (go team Intel, go team NVidia, go team Microsoft), but do folks hate Apple so much that they want to have Google be the new monopoly for phones (go team Android)
Hmm.. It will be interesting to see benchmarks of this. I dug up geekbench scores and ipad air 2 is ~4600 and i7 surface pro 3 is ~6100, and surface atom is ~3500. I used pretty much the top scores for both. Ipad pro is supposed to be 1.8x perf of air 2 or about 8300. If apple's estimates are correct than you are talking about something that completely crushes the surface pro.
So now lets talk about price.
Surface pro 3 I7 models start @ $1400. Now they have more storage, so lets go down to the i5 which is slower but 128gb is 899 vs the 128gb Ipad Pro for $949.
So now we are talking about a $50 premium for the Ipad Pro vs the very much slower Surface pro. Now you have to buy a pencil for the ipad so it's $200 more. However that's $200 for a estimated 8300 geekbench vs 5700 geekbench (i5's score) or a 22% increase in price for a 45% increase in performance.
So we can all sit here and bash apple all day. But doing some math shows that it's a better deal than the surface pro 3. Maybe the surface pro 4 will be more competitive? Obviously if you are locked into either's eco systems, then there is no real decision to be made, but if you aren't I wouldn't write off the iPad Pro because of some BS about it's apple so it's overpriced. It's clearly not compared to it's competition. Sure it's way more expensive than many of the cheap android tablets, but that's not what it's meant for...
So now lets talk about price.
Surface pro 3 I7 models start @ $1400. Now they have more storage, so lets go down to the i5 which is slower but 128gb is 899 vs the 128gb Ipad Pro for $949.
So now we are talking about a $50 premium for the Ipad Pro vs the very much slower Surface pro. Now you have to buy a pencil for the ipad so it's $200 more. However that's $200 for a estimated 8300 geekbench vs 5700 geekbench (i5's score) or a 22% increase in price for a 45% increase in performance.
So we can all sit here and bash apple all day. But doing some math shows that it's a better deal than the surface pro 3. Maybe the surface pro 4 will be more competitive? Obviously if you are locked into either's eco systems, then there is no real decision to be made, but if you aren't I wouldn't write off the iPad Pro because of some BS about it's apple so it's overpriced. It's clearly not compared to it's competition. Sure it's way more expensive than many of the cheap android tablets, but that's not what it's meant for...
I'd turn the mini into a Flavor Flav chain enabled watch accessory that all the kool rap kids would want at this point.
Synthetic benchmarks are worthless. Show me real apps/software performance. For example, the latest and greatest iPads and iPhones supposedly do well on browser synthetic benchmarks but in real world usage Safari browser scrolling lags way worse than a $25 2013 Moto G.
Zarathustra[H]
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Could be worse...
I don't understand why anyone would want a stylus in the first place.
They were useless on the old PDA's, they are useless on the Samsung Galaxy Note, they are useless on the Surface Pro and they'll be useless on the iPad pro.
I can't help but think that the Stylus is more about "looking cool and different while sipping your Starbucks latte" than it is based on any actual functionality.
I've never used any electronic device and though to myself "You know, this is pretty good, but what it is missing is another useless fake pen that takes up space and gets in the way, when I could just use my finger"
heatlesssun
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I think cross platform benchmarks like this aren't particularly useful. How fast can you compile a C++ library on the iPad Pro for instance?
The Surface Pro 4 will be the competitor to the iPad Pro so comparisons to the SP3 aren't particularly useful. And better deal is a very subjective term. Does the iPad Pro support external monitors? Mice? Can it join a domain? For a "Pro" device it's not necessarily a device that would work for a lot of professionals. Though I do expect it do be a very good artist's tool.
Zarathustra[H]
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Surface Pro is one of the few tablets I'd actually consider buying, what with its real x86 CPU and ability to run full desktop applications.
I don't want some lame, limited Android/iOS bullshit tablet.
Full Desktop OS, with ability to run full desktop applications, and plug in any USB device I so desire, or it is useless to me.
heatlesssun
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Zarathustra[H];1041845997 said:
If Microsoft took out the pen support in the Surface Pro 4 I guarantee it would be an instant non-sale to a LARGE population that would ever have interest in such a device. I get that pens are niche, well maybe not so much these days as there's tons of devices that now have pen support. While the users may be niche, people who use digital pens tend to swear by them. I use the pen with my Surface devices constantly. It just becomes part of the interaction for some people. All things that can be digital will have a digital form. Ink is no different and for tablets of this size and price, it's a much have feature today.
heatlesssun
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Zarathustra[H];1041846022 said:
One desktop app that's big on the Surface, Photoshop, is very popular with pen use. Take away the pen from Photoshop and that's a big no sale for people who buy x86 tablets for the explicit purpose of running desktop class software.
Zarathustra[H]
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I'm curious. How do you use it? (genuinely curious, not trolling)
For writing text?
Because I can't think of any reason I'd want to use a pen rather than a keyboard for that. Id' be faster entering text even with a on screen keyboard than with a pen, and that's without having some device trying to interpret my sloppy hand writing
For drawing?
Because, to me, the beauty of computer image software is that I can use the toolbar to draw straight lines and whatnot. If I'd have to free-hand draw anything, that would worsen the experience for me, not improve it.
Something else I'm missing? Maybe just to have a finer tip to tap with than a fat finger?
Zarathustra[H];1041846051 said:I'm curious. How do you use it? (genuinely curious, not trolling)
For writing text?
Because I can't think of any reason I'd want to use a pen rather than a keyboard for that. Id' be faster entering text even with a on screen keyboard than with a pen, and that's without having some device trying to interpret my sloppy hand writing
For drawing?
Because, to me, the beauty of computer image software is that I can use the toolbar to draw straight lines and whatnot. If I'd have to free-hand draw anything, that would worsen the experience for me, not improve it.
Something else I'm missing? Maybe just to have a finer tip to tap with than a fat finger?
Several reasons why you need the stylus to draw.
1. I deal with Asian. Pen input to write in characters is superior to stubby finger input. Writing Kanji in is a good thing, since it's a pain in the ass with many people who's not versed with keyboard input to enter things in.
2. I have to jot notes down on the go. You write on the screen on the go because you have write it and then show it to the people. Typewritten notes is one thing, but what you can do on Onenote is useful when I write things down while on the move and then quickly tap the director and show him the note.
3. Signatures. The world still loves using paper. I don't want having to scan a signature in whenever somebody sends me a *.jpg or a *.pdf of some forms to sign.
tmillszero1
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Could be worse...
I'm a huge surface pro 3 fan, and this is very true! Hell, I have no idea where my stylus is after learning that you have to replace the battery!
tmillszero1
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I'm also a systems engineer, although the stylus can be useful, if I need a quick charge, a quick usb port is very useful. It all depends upon your application with it.
Zarathustra[H]
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Interesting.
I'm not quite sure what One Note is. I've never used it. I saw it in Windows 10, and was annoyed that it refused to uninstall, but I never ran it
I know absolutely nothing about writing or typing Asian characters, there's a use I hadn't thought of at all.
What field are you in? I've never seen what a written signature looks like with a stylus, but I would be uneasy when it comes to authenticity of such signatures. Not 100% sure FDA would not take issue with them, unless they look like scanned paper signatures. (they do accept digital signatures, but they are digital in the password/other form of authentication in a fully validated software application.)
heatlesssun
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Zarathustra[H];1041846051 said:I'm curious. How do you use it? (genuinely curious, not trolling)
For writing text?
Because I can't think of any reason I'd want to use a pen rather than a keyboard for that. Id' be faster entering text even with a on screen keyboard than with a pen, and that's without having some device trying to interpret my sloppy hand writing
Physical keyboards are great for high speed text entry. Not all information that people want to remember works that way. Just taking a "piece of paper" which for me these days means opening up a new page and OneNote and just jotting down an idea, drawing symbols images just helps me and lots of others with memory recall and the fact that it's digital and doesn't get lost makes it like typing text in that regard.
As for sloppy writing, the tech has come a LONG way. I normally only use handwriting to text conversion when a keyboard isn't optimal and it works way better for me than typing with an onscreen keyboard because I've been doing it for a while. OneNote doesn't have much problem recognizing my chicken scratch to the point that I never convert handwritten stuff and searching it like text works extremely well. I can search years of handwritten notes instantly like text.
Not something that everyone will find useful, but for those who do they'll never give it up and this is the kind of crowd that doesn't have a problem spending the money if the tool does the job.
Zarathustra[H];1041846051 said:
I'm not a an artist but digital pens really appeal to that crowd and have for a long time, long before the iPad and Android tablets. It's just a different form of expression that just isn't the same as using a mouse or keyboard. Again, this is a crowd that will spend the money if the tool does the job.
I've been around this stuff a long time. It's just how this group of users work. They are very loyal customers who will buy repeatedly for new stuff if it's good. Apple didn't go into this market just for shits and grins. It might be small but it's a well established market and Apple has had nothing for them really.
Zarathustra[H]
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Interesting. Another One Note user. I've been working in an Engineering/Office setting for 15 years, and I've never really heard of it before now (again, other than seeing it installed in Windows 10, and identifying it as something I didn't explicitly install, and trying to uninstall it)
Zarathustra[H]
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Heh, yeah, I'd sooner mouse stuff in pixel by pixel than I'd ever use a wacom or other pad/pen deal, but that might be because I also inept at drawing on plain paper.
heatlesssun
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Zarathustra[H];1041846119 said:Interesting.
I'm not quite sure what One Note is. I've never used it. I saw it in Windows 10, and was annoyed that it refused to uninstall, but I never ran it
OneNote, at least the desktop version, is one of the best client applications that Microsoft has ever created and it has a pretty massive following these days. Like most of the Office apps, it's cross platform, Win32, OS X, iOS, Android and web. And it's very useful without a pen.
The OneNote universal app isn't as powerful as the desktop version and only works with cloud storage. I don't use it a lot but because of the sandboxing of store apps, it is allowed to run in write mode only by clicking the button on a the Surface Pen and will wake the device up from sleep, very handy for jotting down something.
Zarathustra[H]
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I'd have to try it myself to see if I'd like it.
With all the free hand input it seems like it would be a rather messy and unappealing method to collect data, but I guess it wouldn't ave a following if people didn't like it...
I like the way traditional text entry and image object entry forces you to structure and lay out everything, so that it isn't messy.
Having a bunch of typed text, mixed with webpage snippets mixed with hand written notes and annotations feels - based on description alone - like it would make my head want to explode.
Zarathustra[H];1041846119 said:Interesting.
I'm not quite sure what One Note is. I've never used it. I saw it in Windows 10, and was annoyed that it refused to uninstall, but I never ran it
I know absolutely nothing about writing or typing Asian characters, there's a use I hadn't thought of at all.
What field are you in? I've never seen what a written signature looks like with a stylus, but I would be uneasy when it comes to authenticity of such signatures. Not 100% sure FDA would not take issue with them, unless they look like scanned paper signatures. (they do accept digital signatures, but they are digital in the password/other form of authentication in a fully validated software application.)
I work as a corporate adviser and aide, so yes, I have such needs to input things. I input in Japanese and Chinese Pinyin from time to time.
The written signatures you can get on a Wacom stylus is pretty darn good, but it could just be that I am used to it. Surface Pro's Wacom is essentially the same as the Wacom Bamboo pen on the consumer grade drawing tablets.
I swear by OneNote as heatlesssun does. There's valid use in having something that can act like a sheet of paper in notetaking and brainstorming.
Zarathustra[H]
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Zarathustra[H];1041846151 said:
I loaded up my Win10 Pro VM because you guys had me curious.
I got this:
If I have to have a Microsoft account in order to use it, I guess that means I never will
Homey don't play "cloud".