Anyone up for the Chimp Challenge?

[Full_Taoer]

Hi everyone,

I understand it has been a couple of years since the [H]orde participated in the Chimp Challenge, but we are organizing for another race this year and wanted to extend an invitation.

Some of you joined us over at MaximumPC for last year's race and we greatly appreciated the boost. I tried to return some of the favor in your Race to 4 Billion. While we would certainly welcome anyone to join the MaxPC team for the challenge again, I was wondering if your folders would be interested in fielding a team this year.

There are some interesting ideas to make the race an exciting one for all of the teams involved. If you have any interest in taking part, let us know who your captain would be and we can make arrangements for them to get access to the captain's forum that has been set aside to hash out the rules for the competition.

This year, I think the Jade Monkey could go to any one of the teams. I'm looking forward to it and I hope you decide to join the race.

Full_Taoer
Team MaximumPC (maximum_monkey)

 

[mashtub651]

sounds like fun when is this taking place

 

[Tobit]

Umm, NO.

 

[Full_Taoer]

The organizing is taking place now.

By tradition, the Chimp Challenge starts May 5th at 12PM PDT.

Captains are deciding now on a plan to have every team fold for one full week. A 3 or 4 month average of the team's PPD would be taken. From the starting gun, the teams would be accumulating points under your team's "monkey" username. For each 1% of your average you post in points, the team would earn 1 Chimp Point. At the end of one week, the team with the most Chimp Points wins.

That's a rough description of the proposed plan. Our hope is that it will handicap the teams by using the average PPD and give the smaller teams a chance to remain competitive. Details are still being finalized and voted on by the captains.

 

[APOLLO]

One question, will there be a handicap imposed on EVGA this year??

 

[Kendrak]

One question, will there be a handicap imposed on EVGA this year??

If you read the post above there is one built in.

If I understand it rite it is more about upping the teams production over the average and getting as much of the team to switch over.

That's how you would win.

 

[APOLLO]

If you read the post above there is one built in.

If I understand it rite it is more about upping the teams production over the average and getting as much of the team to switch over.

That's how you would win.

We posted at almost the same time and I didn't see his post before I replied.

Any way you modify the rules, the problem will remain that we have a sponsored team in a competition where every other team does not benefit from any sponsorship whatsoever. I can accept it in every day folding but this is a pure competition. It's equivalent to participating in a car race where the top favored team has millions of dollars to spend on R&D, and the other teams are all non-professional participants putting together cars in their garages with whatever they have at their disposal.

The rule change may introduce some 'fairness' where none existed prior, but one cannot escape from that single overarching, inescapable fact.

 

[W.Feather]

We posted at almost the same time and I didn't see his post before I replied.

Any way you modify the rules, the problem will remain that we have a sponsored team in a competition where every other team does not benefit from any sponsorship whatsoever. I can accept it in every day folding but this is a pure competition. It's equivalent to participating in a car race where the top favored team has millions of dollars to spend on R&D, and the other teams are all non-professional participants putting together cars in their garages with whatever they have at their disposal.

The rule change may introduce some 'fairness' where none existed prior, but one cannot escape from that single overarching, inescapable fact.

look at it this way, they have a hell of alot more to do to get a single point (since their 3/4 month average is so high), they would need most/all of their folders to keep pace with some teams......

 

[Patriot]

I would rather the pts stay at hard... I see no point in this...

 

[W.Feather]

I would rather the pts stay at hard... I see no point in this...

they stay in this, just another username that alot of folders fold under(still team 33)

to my understanding atleast

 

[APOLLO]

NM.

 

[Patriot]

they stay in this, just another username that alot of folders fold under(still team 33)

to my understanding atleast

I missunderstood when he said this....

Some of you joined us over at MaximumPC for last year's race and we greatly appreciated the boost. I tried to return some of the favor in your Race to 4 Billion. While we would certainly welcome anyone to join the MaxPC team for the challenge again, I was wondering if your folders would be interested in fielding a team this year.

it sounded like we would be switching teams but that was because hard didn't put up a team....

meh... I am new to the team here... I will follow the horde's core team

 

[SazanEyes]

If team 33 participates, all the points would go to user [H]ardApe.

I'm not sure about the new rules. I think EVGA would be at somewhat of a disadvantage. As already noted, they would have to produce the most points to get a Chimp Point. Also, even though their output is highest at the beginning of the month, that boost comes from users folding under their own names for EVGA Buck$, so that may not help. (They've upped the point requirement for Buck$ in 2011, too.)

However, I think smaller teams will have a big advantage under the proposed rules. A couple mega-folders joining a smaller team for a week could basically decide the entire contest. I don't think these rules will avoid the drama that has surrounded the Chimp Challenge in the past.

 

[nitrobass24]

I have been thinking about the CC for a while. TBH i am kinda out of competitive spirit not as it relates specifically to F@H but just life in general right now. That said if we do choose to participate i will turn my farm on.

I don't think these rules will avoid the drama that has surrounded the Chimp Challenge in the past.

Yea i agree, i think instead of EVGA and [H] and OCN in the drama its going to be the other teams that are lower on the PPD rank, because it wont take as much for them to see % increase.

Unfortunately in 2011 with teams in the same competition that have extremely different status quo's its going to be difficult to put those teams in the same match regardless of the rules.

That said i have been doing a lot of math and have come up with what i think is the most* fair system. Please let me know your thoughts.

The only thing that i have come up with is a straight PPD Handicap for each team, where each team gets a set # of points per day added to their team (obviously not in real life but for purposes of the CC)

EVGA has the highest avg PPD(over 3 months) so they would get 0 points added
[H] is #2 in PPD and is avg 4million PPD less than EVGA - so we get 4million PPD added per day
OCN #3 avgs 11 million PPD less than EVGA - so they get 11mil PPD added per day.
so on
so on

This way if evey team produced their AVG PPD that we calculated above and add the handicap points each team would have produced the same amount of points.

So in order to win you actually have to increase the # of WUs you are getting done each day. This is much more fair than a % increase because for teams like OCAU (no disrespect here) if i turned my boxen on for them (250k PPD) it would increase their PPD by 12% but if i turn it on for [H] its about 2%, EVGA is less than 1%.

With the Handicap system presented above, if i go fold for any team the impact that has is now equal.

Sure certain teams (EVGA and even [H] to an extent) have greater abilities to attracting new folders that other smaller teams dont; but all is not fair in love and war.

 

[Jathanis]

No matter if we participate or not, how about a few rules about not dropping dozens of -bigadv and not allowing server rentals or whatever the hell that was the last time? That would sure help make it fair!

And don't forget, eVGA already gets a huge bump at the beginning of each month, so starting on May 5th should almost be a handicap for them - if the idea is to fold for a week, why not base it off the 4 highest weeks over the past 4 months, then make the race an increase off that? So instead of looking at Big Corp(TM)'s average monthly points, it can be above their "incentive" fueled high points?

Okay, it's 1am, time for bed before I make less sense and confuse us all...

 

[Kendrak]

From what I have read in this thread I'm going to agree with tobit, no.

A drama free forum is a happy forum.

Although I could def see some people giving max PC a boost.

 

[Nathan_P]

From what I have read in this thread I'm going to agree with tobit, no.

A drama free forum is a happy forum.

Although I could def see some people giving max PC a boost.

If we do i'm in with everything, if we don't i may loan some cores out to maxPC

 

[Wyxe]

How about we just make EVGA vs the world? Two mega teams head to head. Good vs Evil! J/K Actually, the lack of infighting, drama, and losing folders here last year was a nice change of pace. I'm with Tobit.

 

[rmdashrrootsplat]

Umm, NO.

My sentiments exactly after what happened two years ago.

 

[jfb9301]

Still

NO!

I Really don't want to see the Drama Lama here......

 

[[H]ugh_Freak]

Another No vote here

 

[DooKey]

Nope.

 

[lassiterb]

From what I have read in this thread I'm going to agree with tobit, no.

A drama free forum is a happy forum.

Although I could def see some people giving max PC a boost.

I agree, another no vote. The lack of drama over the CC here last year was quite refreshing.

I would gladly do what I can to help out the folks at MaxPC though, if they participate. They are some nice folks over there and almost like a sister team IMHO.

 

[Full_Taoer]

Well, it seems the consensus is that there will not be a team from [H] again this year. I wasn't around to experience the drama of a couple of years ago. I respect the decisions of those who went through it.

Our hopes with a new point system was to level the playing field. Using an average of the points does have some flaws that could sway the advantage to the smaller teams, as was pointed out both here and in the captain's forum. Using a WU count could be exploited, too. If I just switch my SMP clients to multiple uniproc clients, WU count would go up. If you tried to do something with points per WU, it would likely favor SR2-heavy teams. Trying to find the fairest system is a difficult task, to say the least.

I hope one day we can devise a system that would bring your team back to the race. Until then, I want to say that the sister team sentiment travels both ways. I have great respect for all of the science you guys & gals are able to produce.

Keep Folding [H]ard!

Full_Taoer

 

[Filter]

how about just no evga team. we all know there corporate sponsored. Just say they cant participate.

 

[Kendrak]

how about just no evga team. we all know there corporate sponsored. Just say they cant participate.

Although I would enjoy that, they have the Jade Monkey, if they don't play, it is in true bad taste to make them give it up.

Na, I say we help (for those who want to) Max PC and bring the Jade Monkey back to a team that it belongs with.

(Then we can choose what we want to do next year )

 

[[H]ugh_Freak]

Our hopes with a new point system was to level the playing field. Using an average of the points does have some flaws that could sway the advantage to the smaller teams, as was pointed out both here and in the captain's forum. Using a WU count could be exploited, too. If I just switch my SMP clients to multiple uniproc clients, WU count would go up. If you tried to do something with points per WU, it would likely favor SR2-heavy teams. Trying to find the fairest system is a difficult task, to say the least.

The thing is, the base set of numbers are screwed. Until or unless F@H actually makes a point system that is remotely fair, any system based on it won't be, regardless of the handicaps.

 

[amdgamer]

I agree that we should not participate, but that we should help our friends over at MaximumPC.

Because you guys over at MaxPC have been there for us, i'll pledge my Bloomfield for your team once the Chimp Challenge starts. My Gulftown will stay with HardOCP though.

 

[nitrobass24]

Trying to find the fairest system is a difficult task, to say the least.

Full_Taoer

Yes, and unfortunately with the new points system that PG has implemented regarding SMP and BigAdv it further complicates the issue.

 

[Falcon_CMH]

No.

The rules are always swayed/bent when EVGA is involved. They cannot compete fairly. They cheat in their own local competitions against their own rules.

 

[APOLLO]

The rules are always swayed/bent when EVGA is involved. They cannot compete fairly. They cheat in their own local competitions against their own rules.

Seriously? Is it that bad?

 

[lassiterb]

The organizing is taking place now.

By tradition, the Chimp Challenge starts May 5th at 12PM PDT.

Captains are deciding now on a plan to have every team fold for one full week. A 3 or 4 month average of the team's PPD would be taken. From the starting gun, the teams would be accumulating points under your team's "monkey" username. For each 1% of your average you post in points, the team would earn 1 Chimp Point. At the end of one week, the team with the most Chimp Points wins.

That's a rough description of the proposed plan. Our hope is that it will handicap the teams by using the average PPD and give the smaller teams a chance to remain competitive. Details are still being finalized and voted on by the captains.

One suggestion to the above plan that would possible make a big difference: Instead of having everyone on a team folder under one name, just use the whole teams points for the competition. That way you avoid the hassle of everyone having to change their configuration and you encourage new member recruitment at the same time.

 

[Patriot]

One suggestion to the above plan that would possible make a big difference: Instead of having everyone on a team folder under one name, just use the whole teams points for the competition. That way you avoid the hassle of everyone having to change their configuration and you encourage new member recruitment at the same time.

that would make it too easy on evga

 

[lassiterb]

that would make it too easy on evga

not if you still applied this "A 3 or 4 month average of the team's PPD would be taken. From the starting gun, ............ For each 1% of your average you post in points, the team would earn 1 Chimp Point. At the end of one week, the team with the most Chimp Points wins."

edit:
of course, they peak around the first of every month, so I guess it would still be too much to their advantage. oh well, nvm
the week would need to be at the end of a month, otherwise their bucks program would still give them an unfair advantage since that is what creates their spike the first half of every month.

 

[Camaroz06]

If we dont want to make a team, Id be down to help another like MaxPC out.

Just going through quick I would think EVGA would be at a disadvantage since most their folders fold all they have at the start of the month bringing up their average points. If the challenge were to start after the bucks run for the month then it would be a pretty even field wouldn't it? It would force just for EVGA bucks folders to continue folding if they want to back their team.

 

[FlipBack]

Hey guys. Just wanted to throw in a couple comments.

As an EVGA folder, I would support the contest starting after the EVGA bucks spike ends so as to level the playing field. I would also support the proposed handicap that makes it based on % increase instead of overall production. Both sound like extremely fair propositions that would make the competition more interesting (and might increase the scientific contributions since everybody will have to push harder). I would also like to see [H]ard compete, but if you guys aren't interested, that's cool too. Whatever is best for your team.

No.

The rules are always swayed/bent when EVGA is involved. They cannot compete fairly. They cheat in their own local competitions against their own rules.

This is ridiculous. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Patriot]

They do seem to have evened the playing field...

This is ridiculous. That's all I have to say about that.

but you started after the 2009 contest... evga offered extra bonuses for members to switch over and fold for the contest... cards and other prizes... so I understand why people would be hesitant to trust them...

 

[Tobit]

I would also like to see [H]ard compete, but if you guys aren't interested, that's cool too. Whatever is best for your team.

For me, I know not participating is more about avoiding the drama that contests like the Chimp Challenge always seems to attract. I don't care about the EVGA concerns.

 

[FlipBack]

For me, I know not participating is more about avoiding the drama that contests like the Chimp Challenge always seems to attract. I don't care about the EVGA concerns.

I know and understand. Drama is bad, especially when it could result in losing folders.

but you started after the 2009 contest... evga offered extra bonuses for members to switch over and fold for the contest... cards and other prizes... so I understand why people would be hesitant to trust them...

Hmm, I did not know about this. And I can certainly see how that would upset people. Regardless, that is not what Falcon was referring to.

 

[Brak710]

WU counting would never work. The way to cheat would be overclock a GPU client high enough to cause it to submit bad WUs constantly.

As lame as that is, someone would probably do it.