any new 30" monitors coming up? aside from the dell 3008

balthan said:
Bad analogy. Some gearheads have removed their A/C to reduce weight and increase performance.

If performance is your main priority, then the adding of features that may hurt performance is a legitimate concern.
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Ok, look at it this way. Some people are willing to give up bleeding edge performance for the convience and fun of having all your needs taken care of on one monitor. The people that want perfect PC only monitors (like car gearheads) can buy an Eizo.

Of course this is all assuming that monitors with multiple inputs have poorer performance, such as more imput lag. No one has proven this yet.
 
rinaldo00 said:
Some people are willing to give up bleeding edge performance for the convience and fun of having all your needs taken care of on one monitor.
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I just want a 30" monitor that can give me comperable input lag, response time, black levels, contrast, and brightness to that of my 22" CRT, at an obviously higher resolution, and not force me to mortgage my house to be able to afford.

I'm not holding my breath.
 
balthan said:
I just want a 30" monitor that can give me comperable input lag, response time, black levels, contrast, and brightness to that of my 22" CRT, at an obviously higher resolution, and not force me to mortgage my house to be able to afford.

I'm not holding my breath.
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Yes, keep breathing because that ain't happening in this decade.
 
Jazzz said:
You might want to check out the LG monitor I have mentioned as well, apart from not having LED back-lighting it does have some very impressive specs. Out around March I believe.
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do you have the model number or anything for this monitor so I can look it up?
 
Happy Hopping said:
Not possible. I try to order 2 x 305T, you can't get them anymore.
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Yeah, they're still available (Amazon/Amazon Marketplace, Buy.com, to name a few). Most prices are in the $1200 - $1300 range. I'm holding off to see if prices fall closer to $1000, but will go ahead and grab one if nothing changes by mid-January.
 
Atreus said:
do you have the model number or anything for this monitor so I can look it up?
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There isn't much around at the moment

http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/homeCo..._e.jsp?BOARD_IDX=1198&languageSec=E&kinds=IN1

http://www.prad.de/en/news/shownews_tft1056.html

The second link refers to it as W3000H so that might be the model number but there isn't much available regarding this monitor at the moment. It is not exactly clear which type of panel it is using but I'm sure somewhere I've read S-IPS http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archive/7.htm#lg.philips_07 There were some new panels introduced by LG back in July which might give us a rough idea of what to expect but I might be getting ahead of myself here :)
 
Jazzz said:
There isn't much around at the moment

http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/homeCo..._e.jsp?BOARD_IDX=1198&languageSec=E&kinds=IN1

http://www.prad.de/en/news/shownews_tft1056.html

The second link refers to it as W3000H so that might be the model number but there isn't much available regarding this monitor at the moment. It is not exactly clear which type of panel it is using but I'm sure somewhere I've read S-IPS http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archive/7.htm#lg.philips_07 There were some new panels introduced by LG back in July which might give us a rough idea of what to expect but I might be getting ahead of myself here :)
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thank you for the links though - they're really helpful as a start :)
 
rinaldo00 said:
Obviously you are in the minority on this since many people complained about the lack of inputs on the old 30" monitors so companies started adding them. If you ONLY use it for your computer you are correct. But if you want an all around monitor for computer, game consoles, and hidef TV or movies you need multiple inputs. You want old consoles using S-Video not composite, and you want new ones and HD DVD using HDMI not composite. The Rivia scaler chip in the Gateway can do a much better job of scaling than a graphics card and it can do it with many different types of sources.
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He's not in minority. 3007 is perfect as it is. It only needs LED backlight and maybe another DVI port. Don't need the other junky low resolution inputs. Using the scale chip to upscale from a lower resolution won't look any better then the video card doing it. In fact, the video card might do a better job if it uses sub-pixel rendering (it'll be a while before integrated scaler chips can do that).
 
DusanV said:
He's not in minority. 3007 is perfect as it is. It only needs LED backlight and maybe another DVI port. Don't need the other junky low resolution inputs. Using the scale chip to upscale from a lower resolution won't look any better then the video card doing it. In fact, the video card might do a better job if it uses sub-pixel rendering (it'll be a while before integrated scaler chips can do that).
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People keep saying that about monitors. But what does it matter if there are a few extra inputs? If you're worried about it driving up the cost then I guess you ahve a piont, but if you're shelling out near enough a grand for a monitor a few extra bucks isnt going to break the bank. There's another thread with others moaning about said "junky low res inputs" but I dont really get it. These extra inputs add flexibility which is never a bad thing. The upcoming 3008 from Dell will be as good as its older 3007 sibling but with the bonus of an extra DVI input and several others, how can this possibly be a bad thing?
 
Syphon Filter said:
People keep saying that about monitors. But what does it matter if there are a few extra inputs? If you're worried about it driving up the cost then I guess you ahve a piont, but if you're shelling out near enough a grand for a monitor a few extra bucks isnt going to break the bank. There's another thread with others moaning about said "junky low res inputs" but I dont really get it. These extra inputs add flexibility which is never a bad thing. The upcoming 3008 from Dell will be as good as its older 3007 sibling but with the bonus of an extra DVI input and several others, how can this possibly be a bad thing?
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Well, you said it. The price. And the fact I'll never use the other inputs. And it seems to be delaying and complicating the 3008. If they're up to a challenge, they should put in the LED backlight at a reasonable price (that would make me upgrade).

Extra inputs don't bother me really if they don't add to the cost and don't compromise the stability of the monitor. What's annoying is people trying to make it sound like it's the end of the world that the 3007 doesn't have D-SUB or that it can't natively upscale or that video card upscaling somehow doesn't work (for instance I can't tell that a game is being upscaled).
 
Syphon Filter said:
People keep saying that about monitors. But what does it matter if there are a few extra inputs? If you're worried about it driving up the cost then I guess you ahve a piont, but if you're shelling out near enough a grand for a monitor a few extra bucks isnt going to break the bank. There's another thread with others moaning about said "junky low res inputs" but I dont really get it. These extra inputs add flexibility which is never a bad thing. The upcoming 3008 from Dell will be as good as its older 3007 sibling but with the bonus of an extra DVI input and several others, how can this possibly be a bad thing?
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It's only a bad thing if you have allready bought the older model, which I skipped for this very reason. These guys are just trying to rationalize a bad purchase. By their logic no computer LCD should have a scaler chip in it, and of course they all do. And we should all have a different display for every source/input (NOT).

If these guys are so sure that multiple inputs is such a bad thing; why don't they contact Dell and the other manufactures and tell them what a grave mistake they are making.

We have no reason to believe that native resolution through a duel link DVI is anything other than a streight pass through, until someone actually tests one and posts their results.

It's really a nonissue, because the markey has spoken and the manufactures have listened.

Have fun

Dave
 
daveswantek said:
It's only a bad thing if you have allready bought the older model, which I skipped for this very reason. These guys are just trying to rationalize a bad purchase. By their logic no computer LCD should have a scaler chip in it, and of course they all do. And we should all have a different display for every source/input (NOT).

If these guys are so sure that multiple inputs is such a bad thing; why don't they contact Dell and the other manufactures and tell them what a grave mistake they are making.

We have no reason to believe that native resolution through a duel link DVI is anything other than a streight pass through, until someone actually tests one and posts their results.

It's really a nonissue, because the markey has spoken and the manufactures have listened.

Have fun

Dave
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Exactly, the DVI input wont be scaled (unless you set it to non-native and ask it scale).

Like you, I too held off getting a 3007 and will most likely go for a 3008. The extra inputs is my reasoning for this. It will give me great flexibility and the ability to use various other equipment other than just my PC. I can't wait!
 
I'd get the 3008 if it had LED backlight (at a reasonable price), regardless of extra inputs. As it doesn't have the proper backlight and I don't care about D-SUB and 640x480 type resolutions, I won't upgrade.
 
APOLLO said:
What's dynamic dimming?
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It's where the screen can selectively adjust the backlight level in areas of the screen to achieve greater contrast ratio levels I believe. It can't be done on CCFL backlights as they are generally one pieces tubes. It can be done on LED based systems as the LEDs can be individually dimmed.
 
Syphon Filter said:
It's where the screen can selectively adjust the backlight level in areas of the screen to achieve greater contrast ratio levels I believe. It can't be done on CCFL backlights as they are generally one pieces tubes. It can be done on LED based systems as the LEDs can be individually dimmed.
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OK, I understand, and some people were knocking LED backlighting for not providing additional black levels. I am definitely not upgrading my current display until I find a suitable 30" LED backlit model.
 
Mastakill said:
1 more vote for LED backlight

and offcourse also with dynamic dimming!
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unless you doing dimming on a per pixel basis your black level does'nt impove, all you get is backlight bleed and smearing. This is fine for watching several feet away hence the use in TV's however not for monitor use, also the dimming does'nt react fast as it should.

Dynamic dimming is great on paper but its far too cumbersome and slow.
 
"dynamic dimming" only refers to the complete backlight changing intensity like it is used in todays monitors including the coming 3008 (dynamic contrast)

"local dimming" of a LED backlight would enhance actual single frame contrast, but the problem is that it needs a backlight with a resolution adequate for the panel resolution, something that will still take some time until it's available on 30'' WQSXGA monitors.
Samsungs " LED Smart Lighting" local dimming LCD TVs pixel density is about 1/5 of 30''ers...
 
kleox64 said:
unless you doing dimming on a per pixel basis your black level does'nt impove, all you get is backlight bleed and smearing. This is fine for watching several feet away hence the use in TV's however not for monitor use, also the dimming does'nt react fast as it should.

Dynamic dimming is great on paper but its far too cumbersome and slow.
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Despite the fact I fully understand why you stated this, and in a technical sense even agree with you, how can you say it when no such product exists on the market yet? Don't you believe it's better to wait for a monitor that claims such features to be reviewed before we criticize it as inadequate or poorly performing??
 
Don't you believe it's better to wait for a monitor that claims such features to be reviewed before we criticize it as inadequate or poorly performing??
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There are a few samsung TVs (F96 series) using local dimming LEDs, haven't read reviews properly since they aren't relevant to my interests (smallest one being a 1368x768ish 40'' full HD needing 52'')
But the technology indeed seems to have it's problems.

We also shouldn't forget that a lower resolution local dynamic contrast backlight will never be able to achieve a contrast significantly higher than it would without this addition on pixels next to each other. And that the performance of individual panel-pixels will be influenced by the position relative to the backlight-pixels.. (I'm working with graphics so completely useless in my case)
A sharp edge of true 1:100000 ish contrast will need emissive pixels like OLED or FED (20.000:1 demo unit).
 
Benny said:
There are a few samsung TVs (F96 series) using local dimming LEDs, haven't read reviews properly since they aren't relevant to my interests (smallest one being a 1368x768ish 40'' full HD needing 52'')
But the technology indeed seems to have it's problems.

We also shouldn't forget that a lower resolution local dynamic contrast backlight will never be able to achieve a contrast significantly higher than it would without this addition on pixels next to each other. And that the performance of individual panel-pixels will be influenced by the position relative to the backlight-pixels.. (I'm working with graphics so completely useless in my case)
A sharp edge of true 1:100000 ish contrast will need emissive pixels like OLED or FED (20.000:1 demo unit).
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In a nutshell, what you're suggesting is that for (local) dynamic backlighting technology to attain its promised potential, the LED backlighting requires a 'resolution' roughly corresponding to the display resolution of the panel itself to be an effective technology? I gather that's what you mean by lower resolution local dynamic contrast backlight.
 
APOLLO said:
In a nutshell, what you're suggesting is that for (local) dynamic backlighting technology to attain its promised potential, the LED backlighting requires a 'resolution' roughly corresponding to the display resolution of the panel itself to be an effective technology? I gather that's what you mean by lower resolution local dynamic contrast backlight.
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Ideally yes, but this would mean to put a white LED under every LCD RGB pixel which puts us very close to simply scrapping the whole LCD panel and building a monitor out of LEDs (basically a monitor like is used sports stadiums only smaller, but likely impossible to realize using conventional LEDs). if you use new organic materials for the LEDs of this setup you get a OLED monitor...

A local dimming LED backlight will still create a stunning picture (a small blindingly bright sun in the center of a black screen [but not a black sky full of very very tiny blindingly bright stars]) even when it's resolution is far below that of the LCD panel.
But it will only be suited for entertainment and not for color critical work, which is also true for today's normal dynamic backlights.
Or to put differently it's great for some, others couldn't care less. ^_^

The resolution/size of the samsung TVs is a rough indication of what is possible with current LED backlight technology/resolution to achieve a satisfying HDTV picture.
 
Mastakill said:
1 more vote for LED backlight

and offcourse also with dynamic dimming!
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Apart from Samsung haven't heard of any other company bringing out LED backlit monitors and nobody has even mentioned local dimming (I think you mean local instead of dynamic) on monitors yet so could be a while before we see that.
 
Apart from Samsung haven't heard of any other company bringing out LED backlit monitors and nobody has even mentioned local dimming (I think you mean local instead of dynamic) on monitors yet so could be a while before we see that.
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NEC was the first to offer LED backlights on its professional lineup and the first samsung LED backlight monitor used an AUO MVA panel, so the technology seems to be widely available even if it's too pricey to be implemented..
There are a few local dimming TVs in the works, especially Sharp comes to mind, but as mentioned the resolution of the local dimming backlights doesn't seem to be suited for PC monitor use. (there has to be a reason why the 40''ish sammy isn't full HD..)
Well probably see OLEDs and FEDs before the 30''ers feature local dimming at full WQXGA res..
 
i meant local dimming yes...

too bad the led resolution is still too low for computer monitors, but i thought they had some nice techniques to minimize this problem for moving pictures...
I understand it is kinda useless for pictures though

so I think it would still be nice as a feature that can be enabled, even on monitors

someone also said the leds are too slow atm? i find that a strange statement, as they use local dimming in televisions atm.... so is it really true?
 
Benny said:
Well probably see OLEDs and FEDs before the 30''ers feature local dimming at full WQXGA res..
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this is my point exactly, I'm not dissing LED technology, all I'm saying is that by the time it reaches full LCD resolution OLED and FED will probably be mainstream.
 
kleox64 said:
this is my point exactly, I'm not dissing LED technology, all I'm saying is that by the time it reaches full LCD resolution OLED and FED will probably be mainstream.
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I just vaguely remembered that the Sharp demo unit was more ore less shown with a "LCDs aren't dead yet" message. So we will likely see it's widespread TV-LCD implementation as a reaction when proper contenders arrive.
 
This is all extremely interesting forthcoming display technology. Thanks for all the information guys, and keep it coming. :)
 
Anyone got any info on the the new 30" NEC that might be out at the start of the year?

Benny said:
NEC was the first to offer LED backlights on its professional lineup and the first samsung LED backlight monitor used an AUO MVA panel, so the technology seems to be widely available even if it's too pricey to be implemented..
There are a few local dimming TVs in the works, especially Sharp comes to mind, but as mentioned the resolution of the local dimming backlights doesn't seem to be suited for PC monitor use. (there has to be a reason why the 40''ish sammy isn't full HD..)
Well probably see OLEDs and FEDs before the 30''ers feature local dimming at full WQXGA res..
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Oh right, hadn't heard of the NEC monitor with LED backlighting so my mistake there :) I know Samsung have a local dimming LCD out but hadn't heard of the Sharp one. Was actually considering getting the Samsung local dimming monitor but here in the UK they aren't gonna do a 40" version (only 52" & 70" IIRC) so decided to go with a proper monitor. Also fear of going blind sitting infront of a 40" monitor might of played a part ;)

I am getting bloody frustrated because for a good 9 months now I've been waiting for a 30" monitor, heard of the Samsung LED ones and they were rumoured to be out in July/August so decided to wait. They still aren't out yet and I hear end of January start of February here in the UK but I will be using it for gaming as well and the panel it uses isn't ideal for that. If this LG one I've heard of has the right specs I think I'm gonna go for that but that is coming out in March, it better be worth the wait!
 
Jazzz said:
Anyone got any info on the the new 30" NEC that might be out at the start of the year?



Oh right, hadn't heard of the NEC monitor with LED backlighting so my mistake there :) I know Samsung have a local dimming LCD out but hadn't heard of the Sharp one. Was actually considering getting the Samsung local dimming monitor but here in the UK they aren't gonna do a 40" version (only 52" & 70" IIRC) so decided to go with a proper monitor. Also fear of going blind sitting infront of a 40" monitor might of played a part ;)

I am getting bloody frustrated because for a good 9 months now I've been waiting for a 30" monitor, heard of the Samsung LED ones and they were rumoured to be out in July/August so decided to wait. They still aren't out yet and I hear end of January start of February here in the UK but I will be using it for gaming as well and the panel it uses isn't ideal for that. If this LG one I've heard of has the right specs I think I'm gonna go for that but that is coming out in March, it better be worth the wait!
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as mentioned the LED 30'' won't be local dimming... so are you sure you want to spend three times as much for an enhanced gamut and more homogeneous backlight?

(germans are early in listing upcoming hardware (prices including VAT): http://geizhals.at/eu/a221668.html and the same thing with a few LEDs: http://geizhals.at/eu/a294991.html)

It's quite likely that the 102%NTSC gamut LG is standard backlighting with further enhanced gamut. http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/prd200_j_e.jsp
 
Benny said:
as mentioned the LED 30'' won't be local dimming... so are you sure you want to spend three times as much for an enhanced gamut and more homogeneous backlight?

(germans are early in listing upcoming hardware (prices including VAT): http://geizhals.at/eu/a221668.html and the same thing with a few LEDs: http://geizhals.at/eu/a294991.html)

It's quite likely that the 102%NTSC gamut LG is standard backlighting with further enhanced gamut. http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/prd201_j_e.jsp
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Since there are no production 20-30" LED IPS LCD modules, either the NEC is using CCFL's or it's not IPS based.
 
Benny said:
as mentioned the LED 30'' won't be local dimming... so are you sure you want to spend three times as much for an enhanced gamut and more homogeneous backlight?

(germans are early in listing upcoming hardware (prices including VAT): http://geizhals.at/eu/a221668.html and the same thing with a few LEDs: http://geizhals.at/eu/a294991.html)

It's quite likely that the 102%NTSC gamut LG is standard backlighting with further enhanced gamut. http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/prd200_j_e.jsp
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I am not the type to keep changing my comp so I would be willing to pay a bit more for something more future proof. Those prices for the Samsung XL30 are too steep imo but those aren't your normal monitors and are aimed at professional users. I think upto £1500 I would be willing to pay and if it is some outstanding monitor with everything I want maybe a bit more. Money isn't a problem but I just don't think I could justify spending much more when I'm not gonna use it all the time, only in the evenings. I have a Pioneer 5000ex which cost me almost £6k when it just came out but that is used nearly all day so I didn't have a problem with that. You have to draw a line somewhere!
 
Jazzz said:
I am not the type to keep changing my comp so I would be willing to pay a bit more for something more future proof. Those prices for the Samsung XL30 are too steep imo but those aren't your normal monitors and are aimed at professional users. I think upto £1500 I would be willing to pay and if it is some outstanding monitor with everything I want maybe a bit more. Money isn't a problem but I just don't think I could justify spending much more when I'm not gonna use it all the time, only in the evenings. I have a Pioneer 5000ex which cost me almost £6k when it just came out but that is used nearly all day so I didn't have a problem with that. You have to draw a line somewhere!
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I would pay the premium but only if the panel is IPS based.

Aimed at professional's what PVA based monitors?

$4000 for a LED PVA based LCD! dont make me laugh, is that some kind of sick joke.

The germans have the XL30 listed at 3600 euro, thats $5300 now put that into perspective.
 
kleox64 said:
I would pay the premium but only if the panel is IPS based.

Aimed at professional's what PVA based monitors?

$4000 for a LED PVA based LCD! dont make me laugh, is that some kind of sick joke.

The germans have the XL30 listed at 3600 euro, thats $5300 now put that into perspective.
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If the XL30 has the same panel as the 305T (just with LED instead of CCFL), then I agree that it's not very exciting. I wouldn't pay $5.3K for it even if it had an IPS panel. Maybe $3.5K with an IPS panel, or $3K if the panel is the same as the one in the 305T.

By the way, just imagine how annoying it would be to pay that much and have bad pixels, which is not unlikely unless they pick only perfect panels for the XL30.
 
The XL30 price shouldn't be converted using the current €/$ rate, prices differ from region to region and the german ones also include 19% sales tax.
The 305T seems to have the same sticker in the EU and US only with a different currency symbol so $3600for the XL30 (including the i1 sensor) would be realistic.
 
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