Another Technology Gone Wrong Story

GoodBoy said:
Whether they meant to or not, they are pointing out the fact this system is bullshit. We don't have them here and I hope we never do.

Everyone else who has them should be protesting against them.

Using numbers from cop cars, govt officials is a pretty direct way to get the point across, but obviously not legal. The counterpoint is the legality of the system in the first place. They (govt officials) crossed a line with these cameras. Decided burden of proof was only necessary for episodes of law and order. And that my fellow [H] is breaking the law, breaking the spirit of the implied freedom we have from the consitution. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. God forbid you ever loan a vehicle to a friend or your ass may get a ticket for that too....

Fuck that.

So while what those kids did wasn't legal, I applaud them. The fact the system is so easily exploitable shows just one more way how wrong it is.
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I am against stop light cameras as well. They are only good at generating revenue, and should be fought against. But, that is not what these kids were doing. These punk kids you applaud are using this to fuck over others. They were embracing the technology and the system behind it and abusing it for their own selfish pleasure.
However much you hate the cams acting like these kid were doing us a service is silly.
 
GORANKAR said:
I am against stop light cameras as well. They are only good at generating revenue, and should be fought against. But, that is not what these kids were doing. These punk kids you applaud are using this to fuck over others. They were embracing the technology and the system behind it and abusing it for their own selfish pleasure.
However much you hate the cams acting like these kid were doing us a service is silly.
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They are. They clearly prove how flawed they are, and how easy it is to manipulate/fool these cameras. The only purpose they serve is to increase our taxes under the guise of "safety." I hope they continued to get messed with and/or destroyed.
 
Fharakin said:
Now that I moved to AZ and they are installing these cameras *everywhere* I find this thread +1 informative, lol.

Now, do these little bastards know how much trouble you can get into for faking a license plate?

New York: Section 2130 says that it is a felony to produce, make, manufacture or reproduce any license plate or tag.
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There are six speed cameras between my house and Az Mills Mall. And it's less than 20 miles. Then last weekend there was another mobile camera set up on i-17. 7 cameras to go 20 miles! ridiculous!
 
What is funny is a lot of the red light camera's are leased, with contracts lasting years. At first they generate a lot of revenue, then people stop running the lights, revenue drops and becomes a loss.

Has happened in many many intersections in Chicago.
 
AOM said:
They have some placed here where they know traffic backs up at the next light to the previous one and can stop people turning mid-turn which leaves them stranded when the light changes.

They have no warning that this is going to happen, get stuck in the middle or close to it and get popped with a ticket. I've heard that most of the tickets won't hold up in court if you take the time to just show up and protest it, problem is most people don't. They just pay the fine and go on, which is why they keep installing more.
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Sorry, but that's a driver competence thing. If you can't clear an intersection you shouldn't be entering it at all. There's no way you can't see where the car 2-3 in front of you ends up.
 
Lol apparently my reading comprehension is bad.

It DID originate from my high school - Wootton '02 :D

Originating from Wootton High School, the parent said, students duplicate the license plates by printing plate numbers on glossy photo paper, using fonts from certain websites that "mimic" those on Maryland license plates. They tape the duplicate plate over the existing plate on the back of their car and purposefully speed through a speed camera, the parent said. The victim then receives a citation in the mail days later.
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I really hope this law goes into effect everywhere.

On a side note I hate people who don't use their fucking blinkers. It takes like one second to use it.

And I hate people who fucking tailgate me when I am doing 35 in a 35 zone.
 
chrisf6969 said:
Thats been done, but they stole the actual plate off a traffic van with a camera... then drove past it shortly afterwards!! Now that was genius.

But thats a good idea.... If they did it with the license plate of prominent officials, like the sheriff, mayor, etc... or the people who run the companies who do the cameras for them. As most of the cameras are run by a 3rd party company... not the local municipality.
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this is exactly what i would be doing. We don't have them except a few in some suburbs, in fact i have only seen 3 around here. if more pop up... they will be sorry. i already have the cover that scrambles my plate, but this is even better.
 
Nemesis999 said:
Sorry, but that's a driver competence thing. If you can't clear an intersection you shouldn't be entering it at all. There's no way you can't see where the car 2-3 in front of you ends up.
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QFT! Thank you having some common sense!

Off-topic-ish, kinda sorta! :D

You( the driver ) are responsible for where the location of your vehicle is while you are driving it. If you are coming up to an intersection, it is YOUR responsibility to clear it, or not enter it if you can't clear it.

Didn't know traffic was going to come to a halt that fast? STOP TAILGATING!!!

For crying out loud people, I was a delivery courier for five years and never ever got stopped for speeding. This isn't to say I didn't speed, but I know what is considered a safe speed from an onlookers perspective. I could drive 100 and I would still consider myself a safe driver because I know how to control a vehicle.

The point here is that even though "speed limits" are made of a consensus of "some group who knows nothing somewhere" - Going over them is still TECHNICALLY illegal. Just because an officer of the law does not stop and ticket you, doesn't make it O.K. That is what has been going on for years and I hope someday law enforcement starts a huge movement to prevent speeding entirely AND this "group who knows nothing somewhere" takes a look at the speed limits and revises them AND getting a driver's license actually becomes a PROCESS and not something a 16 year old still wearing diapers, or a 90 year old who can't see past the back of their eyelids can pass.

The problem with most people when they drive, is the tailgating. If you want to get where you are going in the shortest amount of time, driving faster isn't always the solution. The higher you average speed during your trip, the quicker you get there. That involves less braking and driving efficiently in a safe manner. So while you are on the highway doing 80MPH -2 feet from the car in front of you, think for a moment....what's the difference between that and being 20 feet behind them? 30 feet? If you sped up to get to that point, you wasted energy and effort. There is no difference in most cases, yet in ALL cases the risk of getting into an accident is seriously reduced!

These cameras, I like the idea of them. And while I don't want to see anyone fined if they were NOT driving yet it was their vehicle...it should be THEIR responsibility to know WHO is driving their vehicle AT ALL TIMES!!!! So if the owner can prove they were not driving the vehicle, great! But the next words out of their mouth should be "It was so and so." and then the court should be going after that person. If they( owner of vehicle ) can't prove who it was, or doesn't want to, they should be fined the same fee for some cheesy excuse like not knowing who has control of their vehicle, which could be used as a weapon, blah blah etc etc.

This is just another example of people not wanting to take responsibility for their actions, or in this case, their inactions by ensuring the people who have access to the owner's vehicle, are safe drivers.
 
Inacurate said:
These cameras, I like the idea of them. And while I don't want to see anyone fined if they were NOT driving yet it was their vehicle...it should be THEIR responsibility to know WHO is driving their vehicle AT ALL TIMES!!!! So if the owner can prove they were not driving the vehicle, great! But the next words out of their mouth should be "It was so and so." and then the court should be going after that person. If they( owner of vehicle ) can't prove who it was, or doesn't want to, they should be fined the same fee for some cheesy excuse like not knowing who has control of their vehicle, which could be used as a weapon, blah blah etc etc.

This is just another example of people not wanting to take responsibility for their actions, or in this case, their inactions by ensuring the people who have access to the owner's vehicle, are safe drivers.
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Sorry, no go.

How about the motorcyclists with tinted helmets. They’re apparently exempt. Out of state plates? Exempt. Semi-tractor trailers, exempt.

This has nothing to do with safety. It doesn’t stop anyone from going 80 miles per hour or running a red light. But a cop can positively ID you and slow you down from speeding. They can’t stop you running a red light, but they’ll try to pull you over for it. And, if you don’t pull over for a cop then there’s a very good chance you’ll wind up on Wildest Police Videos as they bust your ass and you go to jail.

Kids faking plates exposes just how vulnerable and faulty these devices are. They’re useless. If you don’t want to question the environment around you placed there by others or the government then please, by all means, apply for citizenship in China. You can’t ask a lot of questions there.
 
This just in! Kids have too much time on their hands and will be forced into slave labor. This and more on the news @ 5.
 
Lol how did clearing an intersection transition into the speeding discussion?
 
AceGoober said:
If a person goes past the marked speed in a zone where it is clearly marked with the appropriate speed limit for the zone then that person should get ticketed and pay the fine. Especially those who go past the speed limit marked in school zones. Nobody is above the law concerning children's safety. No matter what day it is.
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THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!$@#%%

Don't act like you don't speed every damn day of your life. These cameras are bullshit, especially when you accidentally speed for a moment before realizing it, which harms no one. But, you better fuckin believe that camera is going to get you for the 5mph slip.

Don't be a douche and start spouting that "deserves it" bullshit as if this is some sort of black and white issue like murder caught on camera.
 
Inacurate said:
And while I don't want to see anyone fined if they were NOT driving yet it was their vehicle...it should be THEIR responsibility to know WHO is driving their vehicle AT ALL TIMES!!!! So if the owner can prove they were not driving the vehicle, great! But the next words out of their mouth should be "It was so and so." and then the court should be going after that person.
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That is saying you are guilty until proven innocent. It shouldn't be up to you to prove you were not driving the car in question. It should be up the the CA/DA to prove that you were driving the car.

I personally hate these camera but can see the use in ones that capture a picture of your face. Have an officer compare it to your drivers license photo and then issue the ticket. Doesn't help for motorcycle drivers though.
 
Inacurate said:
QFT! Thank you having some common sense!

Off-topic-ish, kinda sorta! :D

You( the driver ) are responsible for where the location of your vehicle is while you are driving it. If you are coming up to an intersection, it is YOUR responsibility to clear it, or not enter it if you can't clear it.

Didn't know traffic was going to come to a halt that fast? STOP TAILGATING!!!

For crying out loud people, I was a delivery courier for five years and never ever got stopped for speeding. This isn't to say I didn't speed, but I know what is considered a safe speed from an onlookers perspective. I could drive 100 and I would still consider myself a safe driver because I know how to control a vehicle.

The point here is that even though "speed limits" are made of a consensus of "some group who knows nothing somewhere" - Going over them is still TECHNICALLY illegal. Just because an officer of the law does not stop and ticket you, doesn't make it O.K. That is what has been going on for years and I hope someday law enforcement starts a huge movement to prevent speeding entirely AND this "group who knows nothing somewhere" takes a look at the speed limits and revises them AND getting a driver's license actually becomes a PROCESS and not something a 16 year old still wearing diapers, or a 90 year old who can't see past the back of their eyelids can pass.

The problem with most people when they drive, is the tailgating. If you want to get where you are going in the shortest amount of time, driving faster isn't always the solution. The higher you average speed during your trip, the quicker you get there. That involves less braking and driving efficiently in a safe manner. So while you are on the highway doing 80MPH -2 feet from the car in front of you, think for a moment....what's the difference between that and being 20 feet behind them? 30 feet? If you sped up to get to that point, you wasted energy and effort. There is no difference in most cases, yet in ALL cases the risk of getting into an accident is seriously reduced!

These cameras, I like the idea of them. And while I don't want to see anyone fined if they were NOT driving yet it was their vehicle...it should be THEIR responsibility to know WHO is driving their vehicle AT ALL TIMES!!!! So if the owner can prove they were not driving the vehicle, great! But the next words out of their mouth should be "It was so and so." and then the court should be going after that person. If they( owner of vehicle ) can't prove who it was, or doesn't want to, they should be fined the same fee for some cheesy excuse like not knowing who has control of their vehicle, which could be used as a weapon, blah blah etc etc.

This is just another example of people not wanting to take responsibility for their actions, or in this case, their inactions by ensuring the people who have access to the owner's vehicle, are safe drivers.
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So, you speed and approve of your own speeding, which you say is illegal, but somehow like the idea of cameras that are going to ticket you for going over the speed limit, even its just slightly over and completely safe.

You also want every person in America to keep logs of days and times that other people use their cars. Should we have them sign papers every time they use our car in case they try to deny it and we need proof, too? Maybe some video evidence as they drive off with a time stamp?

Guess what buddy, the burden of proof needs to be on the ACCUSER, NOT THE ACCUSED. Fix your morals before you start spewing them to everyone else.

You have some pretty retarded ideals and should probably spend a little time looking them over before you make them public.

Oh, and if you don't want to get tailgated, gtfo of the way. Just like you believe you can speed safely, so do others. So, by you trying to be an indignant rolling roadblock, you are just putting yours, the persons tailgating you, and everybody else's safety at risk. Just get the fuck out of the way and grumble under your breath about how you hate the world and let everyone else go on their way.
 
Shotglass01 said:
Sorry, no go.

How about the motorcyclists with tinted helmets. They’re apparently exempt. Out of state plates? Exempt. Semi-tractor trailers, exempt.

This has nothing to do with safety. It doesn’t stop anyone from going 80 miles per hour or running a red light. But a cop can positively ID you and slow you down from speeding. They can’t stop you running a red light, but they’ll try to pull you over for it. And, if you don’t pull over for a cop then there’s a very good chance you’ll wind up on Wildest Police Videos as they bust your ass and you go to jail.

Kids faking plates exposes just how vulnerable and faulty these devices are. They’re useless. If you don’t want to question the environment around you placed there by others or the government then please, by all means, apply for citizenship in China. You can’t ask a lot of questions there.
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What does tinted helmets and trailers have to do with this? I am lost with those comments!!

I personally do not care if it has to do with safety or not, the reason why it is being done is not important, and should not matter the slightest to anyone who respects the law. People care to much about why something is going on and not about the end result, which in this case would be less people speeding in those zones because they are afraid of getting a ticket.

Look at the justice system lately? It is just as vulnerable and faulty as anything could ever possibly be, yet lawyers are allowed to use, abuse and walk all over it all in the name of "innocent until proven guilty!" For example, why should anyone who has committed a crime be allowed to walk when there is enough evidence to convict because some cop didn't follow the law exactly? It doesn't matter *what* the crime was, does it? Jay walking, murder, grand theft. Yet lawyers can abuse the system and get these people released!

Nothing is perfect, and instead of complaining about how some immature( but inventive ) youths are abusing the system, try and think of ways the system could be changed and don't focus on the things that don't matter.

If this system stops even one person driving from injuring a pedestrian, I am all for it.
 
Inacurate said:
What does tinted helmets and trailers have to do with this? I am lost with those comments!!

I personally do not care if it has to do with safety or not, the reason why it is being done is not important, and should not matter the slightest to anyone who respects the law. People care to much about why something is going on and not about the end result, which in this case would be less people speeding in those zones because they are afraid of getting a ticket.

Look at the justice system lately? It is just as vulnerable and faulty as anything could ever possibly be, yet lawyers are allowed to use, abuse and walk all over it all in the name of "innocent until proven guilty!" For example, why should anyone who has committed a crime be allowed to walk when there is enough evidence to convict because some cop didn't follow the law exactly? It doesn't matter *what* the crime was, does it? Jay walking, murder, grand theft. Yet lawyers can abuse the system and get these people released!

Nothing is perfect, and instead of complaining about how some immature( but inventive ) youths are abusing the system, try and think of ways the system could be changed and don't focus on the things that don't matter.

If this system stops even one person driving from injuring a pedestrian, I am all for it.
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I find it cute how you are completely oblivious about how the system has been abused to put innocent people away and has been fixed to help keep that from happening. Yea, a few bad people might weasel out of a conviction, but that doesn't really matter if it keeps even one innocent man from being thrown into jail for life.

Also, don't call the kettle black, Pot. You know you have jay-walked, sped, etc. etc. countless times in your life without putting anyone at risk. Unless you are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to cover every single instance you ever did anything that was techincally "illegal" you really need to shut it with the whole "it don't matter cuz its da law" nonsense.
 
Kristofff said:
So, you speed and approve of your own speeding, which you say is illegal, but somehow like the idea of cameras that are going to ticket you for going over the speed limit, even its just slightly over and completely safe.

You also want every person in America to keep logs of days and times that other people use their cars. Should we have them sign papers every time they use our car in case they try to deny it and we need proof, too? Maybe some video evidence as they drive off with a time stamp?

Guess what buddy, the burden of proof needs to be on the ACCUSER, NOT THE ACCUSED. Fix your morals before you start spewing them to everyone else.

You have some pretty retarded ideals and should probably spend a little time looking them over before you make them public.

Oh, and if you don't want to get tailgated, gtfo of the way. Just like you believe you can speed safely, so do others. So, by you trying to be an indignant rolling roadblock, you are just putting yours, the persons tailgating you, and everybody else's safety at risk. Just get the fuck out of the way and grumble under your breath about how you hate the world and let everyone else go on their way.
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I didn't say I speed every time I step into a vehicle, I simply stated I have sped before, also didn't say I agree with it or tried to justify it whatsoever. It is wrong and illegal, period. I got a 37" Westwinghouse from woot.com for FREE under a weird set of circumstances, I wrestled for days if I should keep the money or do the right thing and return it. They have yet to ask me for it, and I am not offering it back. I could justify my reasons, but I am in the wrong even though woot made the mistake. But, if they ever ask me for the money I will return it without a heartbeat.

Why would they need to keep logs? it is called having one set of keys for your vehicle and not letting them out of your sight...I'm not quite sure how hard that is for you, but I have TWO sets and know where they are at all times. It's called being responsible. :)

The proof is in the picture. The vehicle was caught speeding, period. The only thing under question is who was driving, which because people don't want to take responsibility for anything, of course they are going to do anything to get out of paying. What a shocker. If someone else was driving the vehicle, they should be listed on the registration and on the insurance. If they are not, it should be illegal to operate the vehicle.

It's not that my ideals are retarded, they are just ahead of the curve. I am a socialist by process of elimination. People should be on this planet to help the greater good, they should own up to their mistakes and take responsibility for their actions. If I knowingly allow a person who is not a competent driver to operate my vehicle, and that driver gets into an MVA, I should be held accountable to a degree. That is how it works with murders, isn't it? An accessory? Why should that sort of situation be any different?

I should know who has control of my vehicle and what they are doing with it. Would I let some stranger walk out of my house with a gun registered in my name? Helllllll no!! A vehicle is no different!

The attitude that a person being tailgated should simply "get out of the way" is wrong. If I am doing 35MPH on a one lane road, I should not see headlights that close to my rearview mirror, period. If someone is in that much of a hurry, they can break the law and cross double lines, skirt around me on the dirt, or sit back realize there is no fire and get there when they get there. I value my life and those around me, regardless if I can do 180MPH( not that I have ) down that same 35MPH road and be safe, doesn't matter!!!!! Others on the road are not expecting that, which is what the speed limits are for. Yeah some of them are just way lower than they should be, I would never argue that point! But that doesn't matter!

I just don't undersstand why people need to speed to get places. Highway is one thing, but when you are doing 50MPH up to a STOP LIGHT, what exactly are you doing? Getting there faster so you can wait longer, using more gasoline, putting more wear and tear on your vehicle, and increasing the risk of an accident. While I can plod along to the same stop light, and get there with no loss of time, less gas used and have a great deal more reaction time at my speed, if needed.

Efficiency is the name of the game....
 
Kristofff said:
I find it cute how you are completely oblivious about how the system has been abused to put innocent people away and has been fixed to help keep that from happening. Yea, a few bad people might weasel out of a conviction, but that doesn't really matter if it keeps even one innocent man from being thrown into jail for life.

Also, don't call the kettle black, Pot. You know you have jay-walked, sped, etc. etc. countless times in your life without putting anyone at risk. Unless you are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to cover every single instance you ever did anything that was techincally "illegal" you really need to shut it with the whole "it don't matter cuz its da law" nonsense.
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I'm not oblivious, I'm a realist. Accidents happen. Let me ask you this, if the "system" convicts an innocent man...who gets blamed? The system. Whose fault is it? The jury. Never see jurors getting called back to explain what happened, or held accountable and forced to serve the same time the innocent man had to serve. Huh, wonder why? No accountability, no responsibility.

If the system worked like it should be, that innocent man should be able to appeal and get out. It would be a major inconvenience to put it lightly, and I can't ever imagine it happening with all the rules in place. Yet I have read countless stories of it happening and all I can do is shake my head at this "system" in amazement.

It's been broke for what, almost since it's conception? Yet no one will fix it, because apparently no one has the power! But people will complain and whine about a $40 administration fee and cry foul. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were in fact driving the vehicle!

It's whacked. It's messed up. People are focusing on the wrong issues and putting the stupidest things into the spotlight. I am all for a system where a person has to be proven guilty, but at the same time if there is concrete evidence they are guilty of SOMETHING, they should be convicted of something and not able to get off on some technicality or BS loophole in the law!! :(
 
Muir said:
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/132948

Santa is coming to town!
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thumbsup.gif
 
Inacurate said:
What does tinted helmets and trailers have to do with this? I am lost with those comments!!

Look at the justice system lately? It is just as vulnerable and faulty as anything could ever possibly be, yet lawyers are allowed to use, abuse and walk all over it all in the name of "innocent until proven guilty!" For example, why should anyone who has committed a crime be allowed to walk when there is enough evidence to convict because some cop didn't follow the law exactly? It doesn't matter *what* the crime was, does it? Jay walking, murder, grand theft. Yet lawyers can abuse the system and get these people released!

Nothing is perfect, and instead of complaining about how some immature( but inventive ) youths are abusing the system, try and think of ways the system could be changed and don't focus on the things that don't matter.

If this system stops even one person driving from injuring a pedestrian, I am all for it.
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The comments I mention mean it is not fair for all involved. The cameras can't photo high riding trailers nor identify a person on a motorcycle with a tinted helmet.

I don't pretend at all that the system is fair. But adding to the unfairness with these cameras is just plain wrong. If they so need to increase their damn bottom line then increase a tax somewhere. Don't put on a stage play for me saying "We're protecting your best interest by putting these camera's up for safety."
 
Just make a mechanical license plate cover and a remote switch. Have it be semi-transparent but blur the numbers enough the cameras can't read them. Switch it on for the intersection, then off right away so you don't get pulled over. Or even make it some kind of plastic that will allow a cop at your eye level to see the plate just fine, but cameras above the car's level won't be able to read it. :D
 
it's not technology run amuck, it's parents who have failed to teach their kids the difference between right and wrong......................
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
it's not technology run amuck, it's parents who have failed to teach their kids the difference between right and wrong......................
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I know the difference between right and wrong but that has nothing to do with whether or not I do bad things. But hey, blame the parents! Its easier that way, right?
 
Kristofff said:
I know the difference between right and wrong but that has nothing to do with whether or not I do bad things. But hey, blame the parents! Its easier that way, right?
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lol you'd rather take the easy way out and blame the technology that had absolutely nothing to do with these morons putting false plates on their cars?

pull your head out of your rear and think before you say something stupid.........

oh, wait never mind, the technology is at fault, right? after all it put the fake plates on the car.........

again it's not technolofgy gone wrong, it's people....
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
lol you'd rather take the easy way out and blame the technology that had absolutely nothing to do with these morons putting false plates on their cars?

pull your head out of your rear and think before you say something stupid.........

oh, wait never mind, the technology is at fault, right? after all it put the fake plates on the car.........

again it's not technolofgy gone wrong, it's people....
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What the fuck are you talking about? I was just saying I can be an asshole at times, regardless of how well my parents raised me. Same goes for these kids; they were doing what they did on their own accord, not because their parents are failures.

But hey, go on another ridiculous, if you want.
 
Shotglass01 said:
The comments I mention mean it is not fair for all involved. The cameras can't photo high riding trailers nor identify a person on a motorcycle with a tinted helmet.

I don't pretend at all that the system is fair. But adding to the unfairness with these cameras is just plain wrong. If they so need to increase their damn bottom line then increase a tax somewhere. Don't put on a stage play for me saying "We're protecting your best interest by putting these camera's up for safety."
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Ahh, gotcha.

I understand what you are saying with the "bottom line" comment, but just how sure are you that is why they are up and running? It is an opinion to say that is the sole motivating reason, but it is a fact those vehicles were caught speeding, plain and simple.

What is not simple, is that you can't ID the person driving, but I don't think that is reason to say these cameras are a failure. Tweak things and find a solution that works. You and I both know if it's as simple as saying "I was not the one driving the vehicle," people who want to fight the fine will always use that excuse, even if it WAS them driving the vehicle.

Which is why I say actually hold people accountable for their vehicle and who is driving it, it can be used as a deadly weapon after all. If the person isn't on the insurance, that is illegal right there. Yeah "the insurance company isn't going to know unless something happens" but wouldn't this count as something happening?

In the United States, our first reaction is to point the finger elsewhere. No accountability, don't want to take responsibility. If we are ever going to survive as a nation, as we are finding out now in the stock market....people need to be held accountable for more things!
 
Kristofff said:
I know the difference between right and wrong but that has nothing to do with whether or not I do bad things. But hey, blame the parents! Its easier that way, right?
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Parents are supposed to teach more than just right and wrong. Values, morals, how to behave in public, how to treat others with respect.

Every individual in that group of youths prolly went along with it for different reasons. One might not have known it was the wrong thing to do, another might have known but didn't feel like respecting the person they were doing it to, another might have simply not cared because it was a prank and getting a laugh out of it, someone else might have been raised in such a manner that being destructive is their natural attitude, another one might have been the genius who thought it up and simply wanted to see if it would actually work!

A parent bring up their children needs to teach them a lot of things other than simply right and wrong, and if they are brought up right they will behave right in society regardless of the environment they are brought up in or the people around them who can "pressure" them into doing things like this.

Parents started blaming peer pressure first, because it is a whole lot easier than admitting they messed up and raised an ill-mannered kid. They would rather say it was another kid's fault, since theirs is perfect and never does no wrong. Or the environment, or video games, or music, or television shows. So long as it isn't their fault.

Kinda sounds similar to my above post, doesn't it?
 
Inacurate said:
Which is why I say actually hold people accountable for their vehicle and who is driving it, it can be used as a deadly weapon after all.
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Let your neighbor borrow some tools and now you're responsible that he used them to kill someone. Here's a idea, how about hold people accountable for their own actions.

If the person isn't on the insurance, that is illegal right there. Yeah "the insurance company isn't going to know unless something happens" but wouldn't this count as something happening?
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I guess that depends on what state you live in. In Georgia, Insurance covers the car, not the person.

In the United States, our first reaction is to point the finger elsewhere. No accountability, don't want to take responsibility. If we are ever going to survive as a nation, as we are finding out now in the stock market....people need to be held accountable for more things!
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I agree 100% that people out to be held responsible for their actions, but not the actions of others.
 
"dont speed, dont tailgate, coast to lights"

i dunno where you drive but here when you let some space in front of you open up 5 people will squeeze in to it and atleast one is getting over so he can turn. gas and time lost. same deal pulling up to lights. sure on the highway i leave tons of room but my work commute is a battle. make a mistake and some a-hole dashes in front of you, slams the brakes and comes to a stop to turn into burger king.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
it's not technology run amuck, it's parents who have failed to teach their kids the difference between right and wrong......................
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i think its hillarious and the kids are geniuses for showing how stupid the whole system is
 
Phantoms said:
Let your neighbor borrow some tools and now you're responsible that he used them to kill someone. Here's a idea, how about hold people accountable for their own actions.
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In that case then, there would not be such a thing as "accessory to a crime" because the "I didn't know they were going to do that!" defense would hold up in court. "I was just driving four guys to a bank, they were wearing ski masks and holding guns, but I didn't want to judge them and I knew Frank and thought he was a great guy, but I didn't know they were going to rob it!"

Silly example I know, but why is that any different? If I let someone use a licensed gun and they kill someone with it, you can be sure I am going to be in some sort of trouble. Tools are not licensed, this sort of law would only apply to items that are licensed.


Phantoms said:
I guess that depends on what state you live in. In Georgia, Insurance covers the car, not the person.
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I live in NH, and my insurance covers my car. When I got it, I had to list the people who would be driving it. Anyone not listed, is not covered by the insurance. I am the only person listed, I am the only one who drives it. Unless they are moving it on the property, which is legal.


Phantoms said:
I agree 100% that people out to be held responsible for their actions, but not the actions of others.
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Then why is it Bush's fault for a lot of the mistakes his administration has made over the years, if his only action was to appoint them to office? Why is it the CEO's fault of any of the wall street companies that has crashed recently, when their actions almost always had no impact on the actual day to day running of the company, therefore it couldn't possibly be their fault it crashed and burned?

I'm not saying you need to be held accountable for every little action your significant other makes, but when it involves item and properties YOU legally own, there should be ramifications involved if you allow someone you do not know well enough to use them, and something serious happens!
 
Inacurate said:
In that case then, there would not be such a thing as "accessory to a crime" because the "I didn't know they were going to do that!" defense would hold up in court. "I was just driving four guys to a bank, they were wearing ski masks and holding guns, but I didn't want to judge them and I knew Frank and thought he was a great guy, but I didn't know they were going to rob it!"
Silly example I know, but why is that any different? If I let someone use a licensed gun and they kill someone with it, you can be sure I am going to be in some sort of trouble. Tools are not licensed, this sort of law would only apply to items that are licensed.
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Accessory comes down to whether you knew they were going to commit a crime or no and what you're intenet was. Lending a neighbor tools or a friend your car does not make you an accessory to any crime they commited with them unless you "knew" they were going tocommit that crime and did it anyway. Driving four friends to a bank with ski-mask on, you pretty much "know" what's going on.

I live in NH, and my insurance covers my car. When I got it, I had to list the people who would be driving it. Anyone not listed, is not covered by the insurance. I am the only person listed, I am the only one who drives it. Unless they are moving it on the property, which is legal.
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In Georgia, insurance covers the car. The rate is based on the person that got the policy and their name is on the policy, but if the car is in an accident with someone else driving, the insurance covers it. The Insurance Company can drop you after the fact, but there is no law broken and the accident is still covered.
 
Phantoms said:
Accessory comes down to whether you knew they were going to commit a crime or no and what you're intenet was. Lending a neighbor tools or a friend your car does not make you an accessory to any crime they commited with them unless you "knew" they were going tocommit that crime and did it anyway. Driving four friends to a bank with ski-mask on, you pretty much "know" what's going on.
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I didn't say four friends, I said one friend named Frank, I didn't specify if and how you knew the other three. For all I knew they were going to a play rehearsal or a costume party! If I didn't commit the actual crime, I should not be punished. Yet people get in trouble all the time.

I think it warrants further pondering personally. It would force people to really thinking about the friends they keep and who they hang out with.


Phantoms said:
In Georgia, insurance covers the car. The rate is based on the person that got the policy and their name is on the policy, but if the car is in an accident with someone else driving, the insurance covers it. The Insurance Company can drop you after the fact, but there is no law broken and the accident is still covered.
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If that is true, that is interesting. And, I wonder what the percentage rate of people in that situation is, who have been let go after such an incident by the insurance company? If it is high, like 65-70% or higher, than the insurance companies are simply one step removed from basically making it a law.


I am sure there is some way to hold people responsible for their vehicles and who is driving them, it doesn't have to be 100% responsibility, like if a MVA is caused, but I still think it comes down to the simple matter of knowing who and what your friends are capable of doing. Since it is ridiculously easy to limit the amount of people driving your vehicle, since KEYS are the focal point you just keep track of them!
 
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