Another first build thread

T

TBoydston

n00b
Joined
May 31, 2008
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2
Hey gang,

I'm working on building my first computer. I'm currently just running off a NX860XL gateway laptop (32-bit Vista, 2GB ram, 2.3ghz dual-core) and it works quite alright for work, but I'd just like to get a bit more tech savvy and have a machine that's 100% my own.

My first concern with this current build is -price-! I was hoping to get out for $900, but it's looking like that just might not happen. My second is plain and simple compatibility.

I work on a newspaper staff as a photographer full time, so my only real criteria for a machine is its ability to edit and tone a plethora of photos. I'm not a gamer by any means, but I might start here and there in the fall semester. Obscene frame rates and neglible detail aren't important to me. I'm no perfectionist, so it doesn't need to be considered much.

Here are the parts:
Motherboard: DFI LANPARTY DK 790FX-M2RS AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813136044
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor Model ADX6000CZBOX - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103773
It's been suggested I get a better CPU, but this seems good to me. I've read on a lot of the specs on Wikipedia, but I still have no practical experience with non-stock processors.
PSU: Thermaltake Purepower RX W0144RU ATX12V / EPS12V 600W Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153049
Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021
RAM: A-DATA 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model ADQVE1B16 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211272
I'll be adding in two more GB shortly so I can cap out on my 32-bit Vista max. It was also suggested I go with a brand name on this. This stick is well reviewed, so I assume it won't explode in a week, so I'm not sure what that will get me.
Hard drive: Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM SATA 1.5Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136033
It's small in size, but I don't torrent or rip media, and I store all my photos on an external HD and DVD.
Video card: PNY VCG96512GXPB GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133216
If anything is a splurge, I think this is it. Should I back down?
CD/DVD Burner: Pioneer 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model DVR-215DBK - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129020

So to summarize my questions: If I order all these parts will I be able to get this beast running? Is there a cheaper alternative that will fit my needs and won't die on me after 3 months? Am I missing any minor parts to put it all together? (I already have a crap tube monitor which will need replacement, keyboard and mouse.) It seems like this is everything I need to have a running machine.

I really appreciate the patience. It's been quite an ordeal and I've been googling up articles for the last week straight- oi!
Take care,
Thomas
 
Since your budget does not include a monitor, you can get a much nicer build than that for ~$900. The only reason to go AMD at the moment is if you are on an /extremely/ tight budget, or just a total fanboy. Intel is faster clock for clock at the moment, and overclocks much more easily as well, if you're interested in that.

$140 (includes shipping) - Antec Sonata 3 with 500 watt Antec Earthwatts PSU (built by Seasonic)
$220 - Intel Q6600 2.4Ghz Quad Core CPU
$120 - Gigabyte EP35-DS3R
$80 - 4GB (2x2GB) G.Skill or A-Data DDR2-800 (don't get a 2x1GB kit of RAM if you eventually want 4GB -- it puts more stress on the MCH to run 4 sticks)
$200 - MSI Geforce 8800 GTS 512MB
$120 - Samsung Spinpoint F1 750GB 7200RPM SATA HDD (as fast as the Raptor and much bigger, but cheaper; the Raptor is old tech anymore, and runs loud and hot)
$30 - Samsung 20X SATA DVDRW (quieter)

That'll get you in ~$930 with shipping, before rebates. If you can fit a bit more in budget I recommend picking up a Xigmatech S1283 HSF (~$35) and a Thermalright Bolt-Thru mounting kit (~$6) or a Zerotherm Nirvana NV120 HSF (~$50, $40 AR). Either will be much quieter and cool far better than the Intel stock HSF for the Q6600.
 
Motherboard: DFI LANPARTY DK 790FX-M2RS AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD
As much as I've loved (and still do) AM2, I would not do it today. Pick up a P35 for a few bucks less
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core
Then you can get an E2180 for half the price but will need to OC to get comparable performance, able to move up later.
It's been suggested I get a better CPU, but this seems good to me. I've read on a lot of the specs on Wikipedia, but I still have no practical experience with non-stock processors.
PSU: Thermaltake Purepower RX W0144RU ATX12V / EPS12V 600W Power Supply -
I've never used Thermaltake but good size. The price is so Close to Corsair 620 AR that I would not be able to go Thermaltake.
Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
I like this case. It is a little tricky to work with but end result it good.
RAM: A-DATA 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory
I would be shocked if this memory will work properly in a DFI board and AM2 but I'm only looking at price, no loss I guess if they don't, worth a try but don't hold your breath
I'll be adding in two more GB shortly so I can cap out on my 32-bit Vista max. It was also suggested I go with a brand name on this. This stick is well reviewed, so I assume it won't explode in a week, so I'm not sure what that will get me.
Holy cow you are going to be in deep weeds with 4GB of the Stuff.
Hard drive: Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM SATA 1.5Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
??? You can get so much more space for less money. I know it's your first build but consider 2 cheaper drives RAID 0 for OS and you will be happy.
It's small in size, but I don't torrent or rip media, and I store all my photos on an external HD and DVD.
Video card: PNY VCG96512GXPB GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133216
If anything is a splurge, I think this is it. Should I back down?
CD/DVD Burner: Pioneer 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model DVR-215DBK - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827129020

silent-circuit beat me to it and can't argue with his suggestions. I will say though that the Sonata is cramped to work in (at least the II was) and air can be a challenge. So if you are going to OC at all the 900 is a better choice. But Sonota/PSU keeps you within budget so you may be stuck.
 
Syngensmyth said:
silent-circuit beat me to it and can't argue with his suggestions. I will say though that the Sonata is cramped to work in (at least the II was) and air can be a challenge. So if you are going to OC at all the 900 is a better choice. But Sonota/PSU keeps you within budget so you may be stuck.
Click to expand...

There are several case/PSU combinations (both individually and in a bundle) that the OP could take advantage of for under/around $140. The inclusion of the Sonata III/Earthwatts bundle doesn't negate silent-circuit's main point -- that the OP could do better with an Intel build.
 
tiraides said:
There are several case/PSU combinations (both individually and in a bundle) that the OP could take advantage of for under/around $140. The inclusion of the Sonata III/Earthwatts bundle doesn't negate silent-circuit's main point -- that the OP could do better with an Intel build.
Click to expand...

Syngensmyth said:
Motherboard: DFI LANPARTY DK 790FX-M2RS AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD
As much as I've loved (and still do) AM2, I would not do it today. Pick up a P35 for a few bucks less
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core
Then you can get an E2180 for half the price but will need to OC to get comparable performance, able to move up later.
It's been suggested I get a better CPU, but this seems good to me. I've read on a lot of the
Click to expand...

No kidding? Going Intel was my point as well. (name calling omitted)
palizaconsilla7eo.gif
 
Yes, you'd be able to get it running, but as silent has pointed out, you could do much better.

Just wanna touch on one or two more points...

The old raptors are no longer worth their price premium. Newer 7200RPM drives with higher platter density can transfer data much faster now. So, go for either a Samsung F1 series drive, or a WD6400AAKS instead of a raptor.

Don't bother with Thermaltake PSUs that aren't from the Toughpower lineup. While I understand you're not building a beast of a gaming system, there are still much better choices out there. Go for a Seasonic, Corsair, or Antec Earthwatts instead. Silverstone and PC P&C units are also good.

Go with 4GB... photoshop will love you for this.

Samsung SH-S203B is a very quiet optical drive. I have no clue how quiet or loud that pioneer may be.

Now, as for Silent's recommended build... I'll tweak it a bit for you... since you don't game much, but would like to get into it, you could drop down to either a 9600GT or 8800GT instead. That should save you around $50+. You probably don't need 8 SATA ports, so you could drop down to the DS3L instead of the DS3R, which should save you another $30+. Now add in that Nirvana HSF he mentioned, to make it much easier to install some great, quiet cooling for that quadcore beast.
 
I believe Photoshop has already been patched to support SSE4 so I would get a Q9300 or Q9450 over the Q6600.

Any half serious Photoshop rig needs at least 2 HDs. 1st HD to hold the OS, Programs, and Page File. 2nd HD to use as scratch disk for Photoshop. Having both on the same disk will exact a noticeable performance penalty. 4GB of RAM sounds like enough for your needs. Though if you find yourself hitting the page file then 8GB is easy enough to upgrade to. I would recommend you get 2x Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB. It uses new 320GB platters and it is very speedy and still affordable, just about perfect for your application.

If you're not gaming, you don't need a 8800GTS or a 9600GT. They won't do a damn thing to speed up image editing. Get a cheapo card like a Radeon 3450 or such.

And you don't have one listed but I imagine you'll want to get yourself a nice all-in-one card reader.
 
Toaster Oven said:
If you're not gaming, you don't need a 8800GTS or a 9600GT. They won't do a damn thing to speed up image editing. Get a cheapo card like a Radeon 3450 or such.
Click to expand...

QFT. I'll elaborate, in case our suggestions aren't clear...

TBoydston said:
I'm not a gamer by any means, but I might start here and there in the fall semester. Obscene frame rates and neglible detail aren't important to me. I'm no perfectionist, so it doesn't need to be considered much.
Click to expand...

So the HD3450 is low end, and not really a gaming card. A midrange card would be the 8800GS/9600GT/8800GT, or HD3850/HD3870. If you really don't see yourself gaming at all, then the HD3450 would suffice. If you actually do want to game, a midrange card would be best.
 
Alright, I took a lot of suggestions and made A LOT of tweaks.

Here's what didn't change:
Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Power Supply: Thermaltake Purepower RX W0144RU ATX12V / EPS12V 600W Power Supply 115/230 V CE, FCC, UL, CUL, TUV, and BSMI certification - Retail
I couldn't find a bundled case/PSU that I liked on NewEgg. The ones that had enough power had hideous cases and the ones with good cases only had 350W. If anyone can find a 650W with a nice case bundled for around $150 I'd be more than thrilled. I also found a lot of circulation/cooling issues with the bigger PSUs. Nothing to write home about there.

Here's what I did change:
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Dynamic Energy Saver Ultra Durable II Intel Motherboard - Retail
I went Intel and found no PCI 2.0, and this only has one x16 which the video card will be taking. But silent-circuit had a good suggestion. I think this is a good buy and offers quad core for when I bite the bullet.
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
Similar specs as the last processor. Dual core and 3ghz. From what I read up on this isn't necessarily better for multi-tasking, but has better performance over quad core where Photoshop is concerned. It's also my understanding that most games/programs don't do anything with more than a dual-core.
RAM: G.SKILL 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory - Retail
I took Silent's advice here as well. It's been suggested to me by others to go with brand name. I'm sticking with 800 for price concerns and I'll be adding another stick shortly.
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Down to 7200RPM and more space. This space is pretty useless to me, but it'll be better if I add a few partitions and decide I want a third backup. I don't pirate/rip media, but we'll see what happens when I have the option. I surfed around on my own looking at other hard drives and wound up with Toaster Oven's suggestion. To say "Any half serious Photoshop rig needs at least 2 HDs" is a bit overkill. I work with the practical side of photography. I don't work with pixel pushing or creating works. I tone my photos to print for a newspaper. Nothing crazy in terms of file sizes. (TIFs for us run around 24MB.) But it IS a cheaper suggestion and as everyone pointed out the Raptor is a (take the pun or not) dinosaur.
Video Card: PNY VCG86512GXPB-OC GeForce 8600 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
I cut a few bucks on this, it's not PCI 2.0, but all the other specs seem about the same for a smaller price, so I can dig it. This gives the options of slight gaming (hovering around 30FPS on newer games) from what I've read.
DVD Burner: I'll probably just pull an old CD-RW out of an old stock computer in the closet for a while.

With these parts it comes out to under $900 for shipping, $816.93 without it and safe return policies. (No replacement only nonsense.) So, the pricing is a good deal to me. Although everyone told me I'd get a much better build for a much better price after going to Intel, I only shaved off $10 and that's without the DVD burner. I assume I went wrong somewhere, but I'm not too sure where. The video card has been tossed around a lot, but I just worry if I go for a cheapo $50 card I'll regret it in the long run. When I actually break out the credit card I might go for the low-end one and stick to Starcraft.

So, with these suggestions in mind do I need to lose a bit more ego and tweak some more or am I finally starting to make some progress? Thanks guys!

ToasterOven, I like all in one card readers the same way I like to get punched in the face. :D It's just more points of failure. All high end DSLRs use CF so I'm quite groovy with this SanDisk CF reader. It fits in any pocket and has yet to fail after three years and 200k photo transfers (unlike every Sony and Lexar reader I've owned.)

I really appreciate all the help and suggestions, y'all have been a great help.

Bests,
Thomas

EDIT: Fixed dead link to PNY video card
 
Case is great. You could cut costs here but I like the case. Lots of fans for OC and well made but not totally quiet - fans make noise but nothing I object to. The individual fans have speed switches so can be turned down to be quiet. Even on high they are OK by my estimation. I like versatility of cooling and sound.
PSU, I would get this for +$10 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002
Now on rebate but watch timing you have limited days to process Corsair rebates. The 620 Corsair may be world's greatest by some people's claims (flame war expected). Modular too and whisper quiet.
Mobo should be good
CPU is outstanding
RAM, I would buy something with more reviews and good OC experience (maybe you have inside info on this stick). Also if at all possible get a dual kit for OC compatibility just in case. Buying from different batches is not a good practice if it can be avoided. I like G.Skill.
I've never used a PNY card???? link is no good -- however 8800GT's are at good prices now. They can be had for around $130 AR if lucky. I just bought an ECS 512 -who knew- and it seems OK. Gotta take a risk now and then.:cool:

You have vastly improved the system. It's gonna be great!:D:D:D Good Luck!

I mention OC because you are so close to having an OC capable system it would be a shame to not have it in case the bug bites you. Ram can easily kill any OC attempt.
 
You shouldn't be too worried about PCI Express 2.0. The main "feature" of PCI-E 2.0 is that it doubles the available bandwidth from 8GB/s to 16GB/s (on the x16 slot). Today's PCI-E 2.0 cards are backwards compatible with the PCI-E 1.1 (x16) slot, and there is no single card out now that fully uses the available bandwidth provided by the PCI-E 1.1 bus.

You don't need to spend that much on an 8600GT card. Its 128-bit memory interfaces makes it difficult for the 512MB of DDR3 memory to be utilized properly; in most cases, you won't notice the difference (performance-wise) between the 256MB and the 512MB versions of the cards. Get the EVGA 256MB 8600GT, which would perform just as well for less, or the XFX 512MB 8600GT if you insist on having the extra memory. (Both brands offer lifetime warranties, making them better choices than the PNY 8600GT you chose.)

I'm going to chime in with the others and say that, again, you need to get 4GB of RAM now. You could easily buy a 4GB dual channel kit for around $85 shipped. (Oh, and Syngensmyth: you don't need "overclocking" or "performance" RAM with the Core 2 Duo/Quad processors. In most cases, all you need is RAM that can run at the same bus speeds you're pushing the CPU to.) If you want to fit that within your budget amount, the easiest way to do that would be to swap the E8400 out for the E7200.

You can also try to fit a new DVD burner into your budget. Samsung has just released a new SATA DVD burner for under $30 shipped.
 
TBoydston said:
Alright, I took a lot of suggestions and made A LOT of tweaks.

Here's what didn't change:
Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Power Supply: Thermaltake Purepower RX W0144RU ATX12V / EPS12V 600W Power Supply 115/230 V CE, FCC, UL, CUL, TUV, and BSMI certification - Retail
I couldn't find a bundled case/PSU that I liked on NewEgg. The ones that had enough power had hideous cases and the ones with good cases only had 350W. If anyone can find a 650W with a nice case bundled for around $150 I'd be more than thrilled. I also found a lot of circulation/cooling issues with the bigger PSUs. Nothing to write home about there.
Click to expand...

You don't need 650W of power for your PC. A good quality 450W PSU is all that you need. Here are some case/PSU combos to check out:
Antec Sonata III ATX Case with Antec Earthwatts 500W PSU - $99
Antec NSK6580 ATX Case with Antec Earthwatts 430W PSU - $100
Antec Sonata Designer with Antec Earthwatts 500W PSU - $123

Though if you're still gonna buy the PSU separately, I recommend getting the better quality Corsair 650TX 650W PSU for around $100 if you're sticking to newegg or the Corsair 750TX 750W PSU for $100 if you're willing to buy from another site:
Corsair 750TX 750W PSU - $101

TBoydston said:
With these parts it comes out to under $900 for shipping, $816.93 without it and safe return policies. (No replacement only nonsense.) So, the pricing is a good deal to me. Although everyone told me I'd get a much better build for a much better price after going to Intel, I only shaved off $10 and that's without the DVD burner. I assume I went wrong somewhere, but I'm not too sure where.
Click to expand...

You did get a better build for the price. Don't see where people said it'll be cheaper overall. Just better for the price. The E8400 is vastly superior to the AMD X2 6000+ CPU you chose before. They may be clocked the same but that's where the similarity ends. Clock for clock, that E8400 will outperform the AMD X2 600+. Here's an article where you can see the major difference in performance between the two CPUs as well as other AMD and Intel CPUs:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/dualcore-shootout.html
 
tiraides said:
(Oh, and Syngensmyth: you don't need "overclocking" or "performance" RAM with the Core 2 Duo/Quad processors. In most cases, all you need is RAM that can run at the same bus speeds you're pushing the CPU to.)
Click to expand...
I did not intend "performance" RAM only RAM that performs.;) and the only way I know to tell prior to purchase is reviews. I like at least a few buyers on Mr. Egg saying it OC's well. It all looks good in pictures and even normally great companies can produce sticks that stink. I like to see a little history by people who have used it.:D:D:D But yes, RAM is much easier to choose these days.

TBoydston may not be paying sufficient attention to reviews. However he may know things from other sources so it's hard to be certain.

I agree with Danny Bui's case/PSU logic for cost cutting with 2 caveats.

1. 450 is the minimum I would consider for an advanced system and then only with solid track records for that particular PSU. I don't like minimum. Antec PSU's can be OK and people seem to like the EarthWatts but life is far to short for me to want to risk spending time fooling around with PSU problems.

2. Sonota's most irritating features are
A. When swapping out the PSU you have to remove the HSF. No problem if you never have PSU trouble. I avoid cases with that design but you may live forever and not have to swap out the PSU so maybe no big deal. Once I get a good seat on the HS I hate pulling it. I'm being too picky.
B. They are a bit air challenged.
C. Very compact inside.
But the Sonota III would likely do fine. Great look. A money saver.
 
Newegg reviews are a total joke. They're often written by people with absolutely no technical knowhow, and even more often, by people that don't even own or have any experience whatsoever with the product in question.

Ignore them unless a product has almost nothing but bad reviews -- then come here and ask the opinion of a more informed populous.

If it's just a few bad reviews I normally chock it up to idiocy on the reviewer's part -- i.e., people posting reviews of defective products without knowing how to determine they're defective. That's not the same as saying it's a good product though. Still have to do real research.

If it's all good reviews? Take it with a grain of salt. PSUs for example -- look at all the RaidMax and Apevia PSUs with near 100% 4 and 5 ratings; they're all trash, without exception, but the 'reviews' show them to be great. Who's more likely to be right here, JonnyGURU and OklahomaWolf, or Jim Bob who bought that Apevia Iceburg PSU to add some 'bling' to his Dell?. Your average Newegg reviewer's idea of a good PSU is one that has yet to catch fire.
 
Change out that Thermaltake Purepower PSU. While it is a solid CWT build unit, there are better choices for your money. Since you're budget is over $100, go with a Corsair PSU instead.

silent-circuit said:
...Your average Newegg reviewer's idea of a good PSU is one that has yet to catch fire.
Click to expand...

ROFL. I agree, sure, look at newegg user reviews, but don't give them so much weight; also look at real reviews.
 
Well of course you don't rely totally on NE reviews. Who recommended Raidmax on this thread?
valoranim01.gif


Maybe for a low powered system they work fine. One does need a little common sense. Knowing how to read helps also.
 
Syngensmyth said:
Maybe for a low powered system they work fine. One does need a little common sense. Knowing how to read helps also.
Click to expand...

How about you stop talking to all of us as if you know everything? We don't know what you're thinking, and we're not going to make the attempt at trying to figure you out.

Our advice is geared primarily towards the OP, who may or may not know what you, I, or everyone else knows.

If we're repeating the obvious (to you), that's because we feel that it's important for the OP to understand. We're not taking shots at you, so stop reacting to us as if we are.
 
tiraides said:
How about you stop talking to all of us as if you know everything? We don't know what you're thinking, and we're not going to make the attempt at trying to figure you out.

Our advice is geared primarily towards the OP, who may or may not know what you, I, or everyone else knows.

If we're repeating the obvious (to you), that's because we feel that it's important for the OP to understand. We're not taking shots at you, so stop reacting to us as if we are.
Click to expand...

Edit: (all smart ass comments omitted in the interest of truth, justice and the American way)
My eyes have been opened to my evil ways, therefore:
I apologize for reacting to, sniping at, demeaning or other wise degrading any poster in this thread. I furthermore resolve to be more humble, forgiving, helpful and peace loving in the future.

Sincerely,
The Repentant Syngensmyth
fireworks.gif
 
Ok now thats over with, TBoydston, any more questions?
 
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