Another 6 months before VEGA?

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by Spoonie_G, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. Spoonie_G

    Spoonie_G Limp Gawd

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    I keep reading that it will be the "First half of 2017" which means the end of June beginning of July. Sucks. They've gone away from "1st quarter of 2017" :( I'll bet that we wont see the Vega until September. High-End GPU's sucks industry wise right now. Either you over pay for Nvidia, wait 700 years for AMD to match them, or buy an older card that isn't going to run the games the way you want them to. How long is this going to last?
     
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  2. Shintai

    Shintai 2[H]4U

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    Its never been Q1.

    I would expect Vega 10 to launch around May/June.
     
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  3. Spoonie_G

    Spoonie_G Limp Gawd

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    Which is the problem. It should already be out. R9 Fury was released 19 months ago. And even back then the R9 Fury X was only competitive with Nvidia's top offerings, not better. Since then Nvidia has released card, after card, after card that outperforms the Nvidia cards that the R9 Fury couldn't outperform 19 months ago. And now here it is 19 months later. Nvidia already has 3 cards that out perform the fury X (and have been outperforming AMD for the last 19 months) and the best AMD can do is tell us to wait another 4 months? In which case AMD will probably only match Nvidia's current top offering, and then cycle repeats.
     
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  4. Algrim

    Algrim Limp Gawd

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    Ryzen is/was Q1 2017 and Vega is/was H1 2017.
     
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  5. Spoonie_G

    Spoonie_G Limp Gawd

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    Vega H1 of 2017 is an issue.
     
  6. Shintai

    Shintai 2[H]4U

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    Its called R&D budgets.
     
  7. iwhocorrupts

    iwhocorrupts n00bie

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    The lack of details from AMD at CES was super frustrating. Have been wanting to upgrade for some time now and probably will end up going with Intel/nVidia again..
     
  8. Spoonie_G

    Spoonie_G Limp Gawd

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    It's called an unacceptable excuse.
     
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  9. Spoonie_G

    Spoonie_G Limp Gawd

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    Exactly. They need to do better and folks here are saying everything is fine.
     
  10. Spoonie_G

    Spoonie_G Limp Gawd

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    I too have been waiting to upgrade (since September). So now I have to wait another 3 months (6 months in total) for an AMD card when Nvidia has had cards during that entire time? AMD needs to do much better.
     
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  11. iwhocorrupts

    iwhocorrupts n00bie

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    I'll keep waiting for now and see what happens, since Kaby Lake isn't very special..
     
  12. MrCaffeineX

    MrCaffeineX [H]ard|Gawd

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    Pretty much. AMD as a whole company operates on a fraction of just the R&D budgets of companies like Intel/nVIDIA.
     
  13. The Cobra

    The Cobra 2[H]4U

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    Rumor has the new AMD card launching @ Computex in May.
     
  14. TaintedSquirrel

    TaintedSquirrel [H]ardness Supreme

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    I mean there's only a few times it could actually launch. It has to be Computex or E3. I think we've got it down to a science these days.
     
  15. Xaeos

    Xaeos [H]ardness Supreme

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    It is very disappointing to have to wait past Q1. Though I've been a very happy AMD user (and especially appreciative of their open spec/source policies and improved Linux support) for a long time, I was gifted an Nvidia 1070 over the holiday and I was about to return it and save the Amazon credit before the end of January, if Vega had a solid Q1 release date. Now, I am unsure I can justify doing so.

    Its really annoying that the "announcement" of Vega was just that- an announcement and little else. We, the people most likely to buy it knew it would be coming this year. So a big hypefest around "Yep, the thing we put on the roadmap is in fact coming out" is a bit disappointing. Yeah there a few new details and it does sound like it has the potential to be a great card, but like others here are mentioning... it is worrisome for AMD to wait so long. Nvidia will announce their next gen cards and barring a complete lapse of either "1100 series" or a "1080 / 1070 Ti ", AMD will be in competition with yet another generation forward without even having the potential to lead the pack on performance uncontested for a few months. Worse, this long release path means they'll be incentivized to give us actual information on the viability/performance of the card in the meantime, as they dont' want to tip their hand to Nvidia or reveal any shortcomings to the potential buyers before absolutely necessary.

    Overall I really like AMD and their policies of openness, emphasis for product improvement (ie their new Linux drivers are pretty amazing, completely restructured and mostly open source, with the proprietary binaries being a "plug in" to the same open base! I'd love to see NV do the same,...on acold day in hell, sadly)., and at their best they provide great performance at even better value. Maybe Ryzen will still do all this on the CPU side and perhaps Vega will be all we were waiting for when it arrives, but another half a year is a tough pill to swallow.
     
  16. deton8

    deton8 Limp Gawd

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    I really wonder how many people who have waited this long for Zen are going to keep waiting another 3+ months for the matching (hopefully) high-end graphics card to pair with their (hopefully) high-end AMD processor...
     
  17. noko

    noko [H]ard|Gawd

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    Bought first 1070 in July, second in November - happy happy camper.

    If you want or need to improve your game play, can afford it - then just do it! Don't whine and complain because a company does not suit your time schedule and then again why must you put up with waiting to begin with? You don't have to wait when there are good options as it is out there. I've seen 1070s for $359, 1080's less then $600 etc. Pascal are great GPU's. If Vega is that much better when it comes out, when you can actually buy one - then buy one and sell your Pascal card if you want to.

    Unless AMD improves their VR performance, I may just stick with Nvidia for my main machine - AMD in the SFF machine - that is if AMD has another small very powerful card like the Nano, if not then Nvidia Volta with HBM2 will probably then go into that one since I am sure Nvidia will take advantage of the the small size package GPU/Memory configuration and take over that market too on the high end.

    Now if Vega is 10% faster then a 1080 - I am sure the folks who bought 1080's last year would be glad they were playing games for about a year with the 1080 on much higher settings and frame rates then those who are just blindly waiting. Maybe sounds harsh but reality is reality.
     
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  18. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Limp Gawd

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    I'm definitely waiting for Zen so I can compare it to KBL. I can wait until March to upgrade mobo/ram/cpu. However, if we're talking March, then I can't judge Vega vs Pascal. Volta will be around the corner, so I won't buy Vega just because. At that point, it's likely Nvidia will be able to speed-release a bunch of tiers just like they did in 2016, and offer me more choices to tempt me away from Vega. Unfortunate, but likely. At least, it's most probable that my cpu money will go to Zen, considering how meh KBL reviews have been. Zen will surely be somewhat cheaper and be the better deal (I know, not a fact, but I think it's most likely).
     
  19. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal Limp Gawd

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    Raja said to buy the 480, and that if you want to spend more money and wait for awhile they would have another card in the future for you. There is nothing imminent, and they haven't even sent out products to benchmark so I'm not sure why this is a surprise to anyone that they can't buy a new enthusiast class gpu from amd. They're told the press many times that you can still buy the fury x right now for their halo product.
     
  20. spintroniX

    spintroniX Gawd

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    why not pick up 480 to tide you over? Then when Volta drops you can pick up something high end. That 770 sure is showing its age.
     
  21. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Where have you been since Polaris launched. Is this news to you now? Get over it. Earliest I would say is April! But it really doesn't seem like they have decided on the final settings yet and they are still debugging it. If we don't see cards showing up by next month and more rumors. It's likely may or June.

    Again I really wonder why you are so mad now when since we all know amd is late compared to competition but on schedule from their launch schedule. Only problem was Polaris failed to clock high so you had a product priced lower. Cuz it failed to give fury like performance. Which was their internal target according to Kyle and all the rumors.
     
  22. Shintai

    Shintai 2[H]4U

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    Yep, people waiting all their life dies without any enjoyment.
     
  23. Evil

    Evil Gawd

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    By the time AMD Releases VEGA it will no longer be relevant and Nvidia will be way past it.
     
  24. noko

    noko [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don't expect Volta until 2018 but Nvidia I see maybe will have a refresh - could be a stronger 1070 version (more Cuda cores, DDR5x, 1070Ti), faster 1080 or more likely just reduce the prices for both the 1070 ($349), 1080 ($529) and launch the 1080Ti $699. If Vega poses anykind of competitive advantage either through excellent performance or low price per performance Nvidia could reduce the Titan X to $990 and release a full Cuda version Titan Black. So folks waiting for Vega could switch to Nvidia due to reduce pricing. I am sure Nvidia is looking at possible ways to take advantage of the Vega launch :).
     
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  25. Shintai

    Shintai 2[H]4U

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    Relevance depends on price and other performance metrics outside raw performance as well. But its clear Nvidia sits with the good cards in a double meaning.
     
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  26. noko

    noko [H]ard|Gawd

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    Lol, I remember the rumor Vega before the end of year 2016, because AMD timeline had it overlap a little. Then it became 1st quarter - then 1st half of 2017 :nailbiting: :ROFLMAO:. Anyways it looks like AMD is concentrating on Zen which is way more important and impact-full to the bottom line for them and long term future. I am looking at Vega real competition to be Volta - if it is Pascal then Vega will not last too long as a premier card. Now if Volta is delayed to like 2nd half of 2018 different story.
     
  27. legcramp

    legcramp [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Why didn't you just get a 1080 in September?
     
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  28. CSI_PC

    CSI_PC [H]ard|Gawd

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    Worth noting it has always been 2017 for the Tesla 'V100' (limited just like P100 was and still is in terms of buying individual cards), not only seen one of the project schedules but quite a lot of Nvidia's HPC presentations (and also a few of IBMs) quite clearly mention 2017.
    This is further re-inforced by Xavier, the replacement to Pascal Drive PX2 officially being given to manufacturers in very late Q3/Q4 in sampling status - this is still a important milestone considering when Drive PX2 went into sampling status with manufacturers and its timeline to that of Tesla and a few consumer Pascal models.
    IMO means we will probably get 1-2 consumer Volta GPUs late this year, one I would say being the replacement to the 1080.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  29. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo 2[H]4U

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    I am just going to wait on the 2080 toward the end of the year.

    My pair of 980 ti's are stomping everyone's ass any-who. I'm 35% faster than a single overclocked 1080 and 25+% faster than a single Titan Pascal.
     
  30. noko

    noko [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sampling does not sound like production - it is for the engineers to design around the new platform for HPC systems. Availability for V100 sounds more like 2018 around June. As for gaming cards I don't think we know but suspect around June of 2018 as well. Of course I could be way off and be pleasantly surprised like everyone else.
     
  31. CSI_PC

    CSI_PC [H]ard|Gawd

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    Context is comparing sampling of Pascal Drive PX2 to sampling of Xavier (the replacement using Volta).
    Drive PX2 went into sampling with manufacturers around late Q3, by then we had both Tesla and consumer Pascal GPUs.
    And the official sampling status for Xavier is either very late Q3 or early Q4.
    Same happened with the Maxwell Tegra with regards to product launch-manufacturing sequence.

    Some said the same about the P100 as you are regarding 'V100', it is about context and the card was available in large quantities even back in Q3 2016 but it had to be part of a core client supercomputer project or DGX-1 or early Q4 an Elite Solutions Providor own system like the DGX-1, some argue that Nvidia still is not making the P100 mass production because it is not available as a single card yet, but that is not entirely true context as it is in large production; We were offered a DGX-1 back in Q3 last year with only 1 week wait to deliver, while I knew of one Elite Solution Providor who could do their certified P100 node (still 8xP100) under a week.

    The original whitepaper for Volta was 2017, the various presentations from both Nvidia and IBM is 2017, some of the better HPC journos say 2017, and even one of the 1st projects (Oak Ridge National Laboratory) went public in June 2016 saying arriving 2017.

    That is over 20,000 'V100' dGPUs just for that one supercomputer required for 2017.
    Not mentioned in the video but in the summary on the youtube page regarding the quote.

    This does not mean the supercomputer is live (takes over a year including training and code alterations, and not all tech will be implemented at same time such as the Mellanox Infiniband) but the card in production by Summer and assigned to the builds, the 'V100' just like the P100 will have the near identical launch-production sequence (and probably like the P100 single PCIe cards not available until following year), with Xavier also going into sampling status after this in same sequence we saw with Maxwell and Pascal, and in-between were some consumer cards.
    I do not see this sequence changing as this has been in place since/with Maxwell.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  32. dopefishz

    dopefishz n00bie

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    Freesync might be the reason.

    I know i'm stuck with AMD for this reason, and i've already got their best GPU (Fury X) which doesn't cut it anymore at 3440 with high refresh rates.

    I've been having sub-par gaming experience for more than 6 months and can't do anything until AMD releases Vega.
     
  33. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Limp Gawd

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    Oh trust me, the GTX 770 is not exactly a fun way to do things these days. Specially since I bought a 4K TV to use as monitor and I can only display 4K resolution at 4:2:0 chroma, certainly not ideal.

    I expected to have upgraded in 2016 to a GTX 1060, but I find Nvidia's pricing this year to be blatant price gouging due to not much competition (I know there are different opinions on this, this is my opinion). So, I bought a cheap RX 470 so I could keep it for about a year and then do the real upgrade. I ran games fine at 1080p and 4K desktop was flawless. Then I found out I was unfairly left out of the Hitman promotion, and that would've been the 3rd time I miss on a promotion, so I got super annoyed and returned it. I was going to re-order the RX 470 but then I got a %75 deal on Hitman, so there was less rush to order the RX470. I waited after Xmas, and then with the Vega event, at this point I'm in a holding pattern. Whatever I buy I want to last for 2 years, so it'll be either the RX580 or the GTX 1160 (I'm extrapolating next season's midranger models here).

    But yeah, boy am I looking forward to retire this 770. Those 2GB VRAM are hell on any modern game. Next card should preferably have 8GB.
     
  34. Spoonie_G

    Spoonie_G Limp Gawd

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    Overpriced and I have a freesync monitor.
     
  35. TheLAWNoob

    TheLAWNoob Limp Gawd

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    Freesync isn't free. You paid the price of being locked in with AMD, and so did I.
     
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  36. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Limp Gawd

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    You could argue, you would've paid even more via Gsync just to be locked in with Nvidia.
     
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  37. Algrim

    Algrim Limp Gawd

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    Or you could have chosen neither and be locked to none.
     
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  38. TheLAWNoob

    TheLAWNoob Limp Gawd

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    That's the price for getting the high end performance a few months early. We need someone to make a driver hack to enable freesync on nvidia cards.

    Right now I'm working as an intern doing firmware/driver developement for a large company that produces video production/transmission systems. Hopefully I will gain enough understanding of video drivers in a few month to mess with nvidia drivers.
     
  39. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Amd doesn't lock you in to freesync. It's based on an open standard. Nvidia could easily support it but they won't. So stop blaming amd for something nvidia doesn't want to do.
     
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  40. TheLAWNoob

    TheLAWNoob Limp Gawd

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    Im not blaming AMD. Im just pointing out if you want to take full advantage of freesync, nvidia wont let you. Call me Sherlock.