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Android Based Video Game Console Kickstarter

nOrVow said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU
"The FSF maintains that Linux, when used with GNU tools and utilities, should be considered a variant of GNU, and promotes the term GNU/Linux for such systems, (leading to the GNU/Linux naming controversy)."
Click to expand...
exactly, and here's what you said:
Richard believes that "Linux" should be called a variant of GNU because Linus uses it's tools and compiler and believe that "Linux" (the kernel) should also be called "GNU/Linux"...
Click to expand...

If you create a version of linux without any GNU tools (as i pointed out: Android), I do not believe anybody on the GNU really believes it should be called GNU/linux.

and indeed, the article i pointed to shows that the GNU team do not label android as GNU, even though it uses the linux kernel.
 
serpretetsky said:
exactly, and here's what you said:


If you create a version of linux without any GNU tools (as i pointed out: Android), I do not believe anybody on the GNU really believes it should be called GNU/linux.

and indeed, the article i pointed to shows that the GNU team do not label android as GNU, even though it uses the linux kernel.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? I never said GNU/FSF wanted to label Android as GNU/Linux, I'm not even talking about Android. I'm referring the naming of the kernel itself.

As I've stated before, Android is NOT Linux. It's a java based userland that sits on Linux "the kernel". The politically (and architecturally) correct name is actually "Android/Linux" (layman Android). But Google markets the package (Android + Linux) as "Android". If Google took libraries from Linux and unified them within their own made user-land, then named it all "Android", they would go through SERIOUS licensing issues. "Android" (the user-land) is under the Apache license, while "Linux" (the kernel) is under the GPL exclusively. I'm not using the layman label of "Linux" for the GNU/Linux Desktop OS that the media has represented in THIS discussion for the naming controversy of "Linux" (the kernel).

Go back and read the rest of my posts, you'll understand.
 
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/ouyatop20

Here is a survey OUYA made to see what games people want on this "console".

Is it just me or are half the damn games on the list not even remotely able to run on Tegra 3? Assassins Creed? Skyrim? Battlefield?

Do these people not know what Tegra 3 is? Let alone the fact that to run ANY of these games on Tegra 3 would result in PS2 quality graphics. Call of Duty on the OUYA? Yeah, at 640x480 with graphics lower than the lowest possible setting.

Heh...now I'm even more interested to see what happens.

Who here thinks that no matter what amount of $$$ they get (4.2 million now) the hardware specs won't change?
 
JoeUser said:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/ouyatop20

Here is a survey OUYA made to see what games people want on this "console".

Is it just me or are half the damn games on the list not even remotely able to run on Tegra 3? Assassins Creed? Skyrim? Battlefield?

Do these people not know what Tegra 3 is? Let alone the fact that to run ANY of these games on Tegra 3 would result in PS2 quality graphics. Call of Duty on the OUYA? Yeah, at 640x480 with graphics lower than the lowest possible setting.

Heh...now I'm even more interested to see what happens.

Who here thinks that no matter what amount of $$$ they get (4.2 million now) the hardware specs won't change?
Click to expand...

I see little reasons adaptations would not be possible... certainly not on a $2000-pc 64-player HD destruction scale, but on a smaller one with more reasonable expectations, sure. I think you'll be surprised with what devs will be capable of putting out with a Tegra 3 baseline guaranteed and a guaranteed control scheme.
 
GoldenTiger said:
I see little reasons adaptations would not be possible... certainly not on a $2000-pc 64-player HD destruction scale, but on a smaller one with more reasonable expectations, sure. I think you'll be surprised with what devs will be capable of putting out with a Tegra 3 baseline guaranteed and a guaranteed control scheme.
Click to expand...

Oh, and just to add, I'm sure part of the reasons for the titles on the list are to gauge interest in certain types and genres of games so they know what devs/ideas to try reaching out to/with.
 
nOrVow said:
What are you talking about? I never said GNU/FSF wanted to label Android as GNU/Linux, I'm not even talking about Android. I'm referring the naming of the kernel itself.

Go back and read the rest of my posts, you'll understand.
Click to expand...
I guess I am misunderstanding you. You said this:
Richard believes that "Linux" should be called a variant of GNU because Linus uses it's tools and compiler and believe that "Linux" (the kernel) should also be called "GNU/Linux"...
Click to expand...

which i understood to mean this:
Richard believes ... that "Linux" (the kernel) should also be called "GNU/Linux"...
Click to expand...

please stop me if I already misunderstood.

Here's where my logic continues

Android OS uses the linux kernel. If 1) the android kernel is linux AND 2) Richard Stallman believes that the linux kernel should be called GNU/linux, then 3) Richard Stallman would claim that Android uses GNU/linux (NOT JUST LINUX!).

Now, i already think this sounds rediculous just as it stands, why would richard stallman want to call the linux kernel (something he had NOTHING to do with) linux/GNU.

However, i decided not to go off assumptions, i found an article, right on GNU's homepage (an authority I assumed represents Stallman's general opinions of the GNU/linux debate) where they openly state, that because Android has no GNU software, GNU has nothing to do with Android. Even though Android uses the linux kernel, GNU says they have nothing to do with Android.

So in order for the following conclusion to be false (which that page on GNU's webpage says it is)
3) Richard Stallman would claim that Android uses GNU/linux (NOT JUST LINUX!).

one of these 2 premises must be wrong:
1) the android kernel is linux
2)Richard Stallman believes that the linux kernel should be called GNU/linux

I'm pretty sure 1) is true. 2) must be wrong.
 
serpretetsky said:
I guess I am misunderstanding you. You said this:


which i understood to mean this:


please stop me if I already misunderstood.

Here's where my logic continues

Android OS uses the linux kernel. If 1) the android kernel is linux AND 2) Richard Stallman believes that the linux kernel should be called GNU/linux, then 3) Richard Stallman would claim that Android uses GNU/linux (NOT JUST LINUX!).

Now, i already think this sounds rediculous just as it stands, why would richard stallman want to call the linux kernel (something he had NOTHING to do with) linux/GNU.

However, i decided not to go off assumptions, i found an article, right on GNU's homepage (an authority I assumed represents Stallman's general opinions of the GNU/linux debate) where they openly state, that because Android has no GNU software, GNU has nothing to do with Android. Even though Android uses the linux kernel, GNU says they have nothing to do with Android.

So in order for the following conclusion to be false (which that page on GNU's webpage says it is)
3) Richard Stallman would claim that Android uses GNU/linux (NOT JUST LINUX!).

one of these 2 premises must be wrong:
1) the android kernel is linux
2)Richard Stallman believes that the linux kernel should be called GNU/linux

I'm pretty sure 1) is true. 2) must be wrong.
Click to expand...

I'm trying my best to rid the ambiguity of the naming scheme issue, but you keep making me repeat myself.

It all comes down to this.

With technical/political semantics;

"GNU" and "Android" are both user-lands, or "operating environments".

"Linux" is a kernel, right? But "Linux" is neither GNU or Android. It is it's own portable entity. This is Linus' work and child.

"Android/Linux" is a packaged mobile OS, and "GNU/Linux" is a packaged desktop OS.

But "Android/Linux" is not "GNU/Linux", they entirely different OSs for different platforms.

Here's where you aren't following me... the entire technical merits of what i'm saying are tainted by marketing and PR.

Without the technical semantics, and in with Marketing/PR bullshit.

"Android/Linux" (the complete packaged mobile OS by Google) is marketed as "Android"

While, "GNU/Linux" (the packaged desktop OS by Linus and Richard) is marketed "Linux".

To further put things into perspective, there's also GNU/HURD, GNU/kFreeBSD. So, "Android/Linux" is not "GNU/Linux".

Do you see the issue now? The flaw in your logic is that you're calling the mobile OS "Android/Linux" the desktop OS "GNU/Linux", which they are completely different from one another, other than the kernel (Linux) they both sit on.

I never said Richard wants "Android/Linux" OS (Again? marketed as "Android", the user-land), to be called "Linux" (Again, the kernel itself - technical semantics). So, I have NO idea why you keep mentioning Android about the naming scheme about the Linux kernel.

You cannot put Android (user-land) ontop of "GNU/Linux" OS (which already has a user-land - "GNU"), that would be completely retarded and pointless.

So, Richard wants "Linux" (Again, the kernel itself, technical semantics"), to be called "GNU/Linux" (the packaged desktop OS) because he BELIEVES it's a variation of "GNU" (the user-land) and the GNU project because Linus' uses the GNU tool-chain to construct his kernel, but it's not a variation of "GNU" (user-land) and the FSF/GNU project has nothing to do with "Linux" (the kernel) DEVELOPMENT - it's complete extremist bullshit. Richard has not put a damn lick of work into the Linux kernel, but he has contributed to "GNU" (again, user-land).

But! "GNU/Linux" (Again, complete packaged OS - technical semantics) is "GNU/Linux", in which they both deserve equal credit.

Or (with PR/Marketing) you can say "GNU/Linux" OS is "Linux" (for the layman masses). But that's semantically/politically incorrect.

Why? Look and read above again.

"Android" and "Linux" are both segmented parts of a complete packaged OSs, AND layman marketing terms for the masses.

Get it now?

Seriously, someone should fucking stick this. lol The historical semantics of GNU/Linux are a bitch to explain.

Now BRB while I go blow my fucking off.
 
^ Why didn't you explain it to me like that?
He gets a nice fat explanation, and all I got was a witty remark.

You make me feel so unwanted! aaaaaaaAAHHHH!!!1 :p
 
Red Falcon said:
^ Why didn't you explain it to me like that?
He gets a nice fat explanation, and all I got was a witty remark.

You make me feel so unwanted! aaaaaaaAAHHHH!!!1 :p
Click to expand...

Aren't you supposed to know this stuff already?

And why is everyone talking about what does and doesn't constitute GNU/Linux in this thread? Stoppit! Drool about the console instead!
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Can it run slackware?
Click to expand...

Slackware does have an ARM port and Slackware can run on some pretty crazy x86 hardware. I think with some elbow grease and maybe some crying to Mister Volkerding, one might be able to get this most holy of Linux distros to work.

FYI - I <3 Slackware!
 
Red Falcon said:
^ Why didn't you explain it to me like that?
He gets a nice fat explanation, and all I got was a witty remark.

You make me feel so unwanted! aaaaaaaAAHHHH!!!1 :p
Click to expand...

It wasn't a witty remark man!! You already knew part of the issue, and got the rest quickly. ;)

For the record people, I don't blame the world for calling it Linux. Richard wants a got damn software utopia (which will never happen). The enterprise and Linus Torvalds both share the same pragmatic perspective of software in general - so it's obvious for them to adopt "Linux" instead the full fuckery of "GaNoo Forward Slash Lin ucks". Linus also has a better personality, imo. Also, It just sounds better and it's easier to say (it's a very catchy name!!) - so I call it that myself personally. If Richard doesn't like it, pucker up!!

You can either get all Stallman anal about it and use the real technical name, or keep your mind as ease and use the marketing layman term.


Oh, and Slackware is sexy.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Slackware does have an ARM port and Slackware can run on some pretty crazy x86 hardware. I think with some elbow grease and maybe some crying to Mister Volkerding, one might be able to get this most holy of Linux distros to work.

FYI - I <3 Slackware!
Click to expand...

I think I still have an old slackware proxy box somewhere around here...
 
SkribbelKat said:
Aren't you supposed to know this stuff already?

And why is everyone talking about what does and doesn't constitute GNU/Linux in this thread? Stoppit! Drool about the console instead!
Click to expand...

NO KIDDING!!! Well...it wouldn't be the [H] way to stay on topic!:rolleyes:

It looks like OUYA's Kickstarter is already starting to stagnate! Been at 4.2 million for a little bit now.
 
JoeUser said:
NO KIDDING!!! Well...it wouldn't be the [H] way to stay on topic!:rolleyes:

It looks like OUYA's Kickstarter is already starting to stagnate! Been at 4.2 million for a little bit now.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry!! Don't spank me!!
 
JoeUser said:
NO KIDDING!!! Well...it wouldn't be the [H] way to stay on topic!:rolleyes:

It looks like OUYA's Kickstarter is already starting to stagnate! Been at 4.2 million for a little bit now.
Click to expand...

Saturation of the initial rush. I am sure as word spreads it will pick up again. The 4.2 million is incredible for a couple of days out of the blue on Kickstarter for most. No official website yet, no marketing push, and only a far away pre purchase on a relatively niche Site is amazing.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Aren't you supposed to know this stuff already?

And why is everyone talking about what does and doesn't constitute GNU/Linux in this thread? Stoppit! Drool about the console instead!
Click to expand...

Hey, I don't know everything.
Though some individuals like to think they do. ;)

Yes, the console is awesomesauce, is it here yet?
 
nOrVow said:
So, Richard wants "Linux" (Again, the kernel itself, technical semantics"), to be called "GNU/Linux" (the packaged desktop OS) because he BELIEVES it's a variation of "GNU" (the user-land) and the GNU project because Linus' uses the GNU tool-chain to construct his kernel, but it's not a variation of "GNU" (user-land) and the FSF/GNU project has nothing to do with "Linux" (the kernel) DEVELOPMENT - it's complete extremist bullshit. Richard has not put a damn lick of work into the Linux kernel, but he has contributed to "GNU" (again, user-land).
Click to expand...
i read most of your post, and I dont think i disagree with any of it, except this part. Why do you believe this?

I also want to make sure I understand you correctly. You are saying Richard wants the linux kernel to be called linux/GNU because it was created using GNU tools, correct?
So even though no GNU tools are packaged with linux after Linus has compiled it (those tools may be added later by distros etc), you are saying Richard still wants the linux kernel to be called linux/GNU because it was created using GNU compiler?

Can i also assume you are saying, then, that Richard believes there should never be linux labeled alone. That he believes any time you are refering to linux you should also be referring to GNU?
 
Yes, I'm referring to "Linux" as a complete OS, Richard wants people to call it "GNU/Linux" because that's what it truly is architecturally, historically, etc. Which is perfectly fine. Now, with "Linux" as just a kernel, Richard basically want's it's birth-name, so to speak, to called "GNU/Linux", which isn't fair and gives Richard credit for something him or his foundation (FSF/GNU) had no part of in it's development. Linus has said this himself - so it isn't really my belief.

I don't know you if you realize this, but Richard tends to be inconsiderate and one-dimensional about things that don't coincide with his ideal of what "free" is - completely downplaying other "free" licenses, or even OSS that isn't blessed with his license. Have you seen the fiasco he had with the OpenBSD developers? it was ridiculous.
 
Edit: Oh, and another thing. Yes, you're right. Linus doesn't mention GNU when talking about his kernel either.
 
that is interesting. Do you have links to his opinions on this? GNU's website disagrees with this, i assumed GNU's website reflected his thoughts, but i may have been incorrect.
 
serpretetsky said:
that is interesting. Do you have links to his opinions on this? GNU's website disagrees with this, i assumed GNU's website reflected his thoughts, but i may have been incorrect.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU

The FSF maintains that Linux, when used with GNU tools and utilities, should be considered a variant of GNU, and promotes the term GNU/Linux for such systems, (leading to the GNU/Linux naming controversy).
Click to expand...

http://marianoblejman.com/joomla/in...perating-system&catid=34:tecnologia&Itemid=54

--Why do you think increasingly not-using the "name" Gnu, when talking about Linux?
--I've never used the name GNU. Linux has never been a FSF project, and the FSF never had anything to do with it. Most of the tools aren't GNU tools either, although the GNU C compiler was (and is) a big deal. So the term "GNU/Linux" never made any sense. That said, I also never felt that people couldn't call it anything they wanted. Most of the distributions give the system their own name: Fedora, SuSE, Ubuntu, Android, Mandriva, the list goes on. So if the FSF wants to call it GNU/Linux, why should I care? It makes no more sense than calling it after a kind of head-wear, after all.
Click to expand...

i don't have any links directly but this is what has resonated from Linus according to that part of the interview about his experiences and wiki article. Linus hints at his kernel. Also note, FSF/GNU website has a lot of biased FUD on there as well, so I'd wouldn't take all of it as gospel. The majority of Richard discussions are through mailing lists, but i don't have access to all of them.
 
Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix Linux/Unix
WHO GIVES A DAMN!​

HOLY SHIT I swear if I see "Linux" or "Unix" one more time I'm going to fucking kill someone!

TAKE THIS FIGHT TO THE OS FORUM FFS!

HERE I CREATED A THREAD JUST FOR YOU GUYS!

Jesus Christ its like a bunch of teenage girls in here arguing about whose the hottest boy on Twilight or some shit.

Absolutely NO consideration for others who want to STAY ON TOPIC! Please have some decency! Drop the shit or GTFO!

You're welcome and have a great day! :D
 
Ouya! :D

You're right! I made my point already so I'll stfu about it now.

serpretetsky, you're on your own now. :p
 
JoeUser said:
THANK YOU!

SOMEONE GIVE THIS MAN A COOKIE, BOTTLE OF WATER, AND TOWEL IMMEDIATELY!!!
Click to expand...

I tried to bring a cookie, but it looks so delicious that I ate it on the way to this thread. :(

And hey, stop super bold-ifying parts of my posts. You're making me look like some irate forum crazy. :D
 
SkribbelKat said:
I tried to bring a cookie, but it looks so delicious that I ate it on the way to this thread. :(

And hey, stop super bold-ifying parts of my posts. You're making me look like some irate forum crazy. :D
Click to expand...

Hehe.

And hey, I thought it was meant as a compliment.... ;).
 
From someone's comments on penny arcade earlier today... EXCELLENT write-up:

Peeple / 53 minutes ago
There is a new type of hardwareout that is basically System on chips they are small computers used for things like media services. Netflix, Hulu, etc

Here is an example: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/59...e_Android.html

OUYA is like that but it's focus is on gaming. It is android based, but unlike phones it doesn't have to run phone, text messaging, etc apps in the background so it will be quite a bit more powerful than it's specs let on. This is also how consoles games are able to look like pc games despite inferior specs. They simply dont have the overhead of a full OS.

Ouya is back by some very well known and savy people. They have one of the highest profile design firms in the world behind it, www.fuseproject.com (google it or search on TED), a Paypal exec as an angel investor, inexile owner (wasteland 2) an investor, the CEO and founder is a high level 7 figure a year exec at IGN and gamefly..the amount of money raised doesn't equal these peoples yearly combined salary, so no worries about it being a "scam". Not to mention NONE of them would ever work in any senior level position EVER again.

There are some nay sayers who say it is impossible to have this console under $100 . They are wrong.There is nothing pie in the sky about the hardware it is all off the shelf.

This is very easily going to cost them less than $100.

You can grind out controllers for $5 a pop. (heres one for $3 http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/54..._usb_game.html)

The processor is $25 (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Nvidi...y-236695.shtml)

RAM is $1 (link to 4gig ddr2 if you buy 5000:http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/46...c2700.html?s=p)

What's the board, bluetooth,wifi, and ports? $10 max. (heres a link to something pretty close to OUYA :http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/59...e_Android.html for $36)

It's safe to say this console might be costing them $60 - $70 shipped.

Regardless of how successful it is, this is what you can expect in the way of games.

1.Emulators: Emulators are definitely going to support this. You can count on launch support. Whether OUYA allows them or not is another matter entirely. IOS doesn't and Android sometimes takes them down. But being the console is hackable, they'll definitely be there.

2.Android ports: All an android port would require is controller support. Even though OUYA may have a small user base it will still be attractive to those who would like more traction on their games. For big names like Angry Birds it's a no brainer they can afford the cost if for no other reason than presence.

3.3rd party markets: Onlive is on android. Supports a controller so it's pretty likely these guys will port just for the presence.

4.OUYA specific launch titles: Double Fine has said they are on board. Wasteland 2, Inexile owner is an investor. Wasteland 2 is being built on unity 3 which makes a port a matter of using the proper plugin to compile. I know a bunch of smaller guys are on board but they haven't announced anything concrete.

This console is not meant to go toe to toe with the big three. Where it will go toe to toe with them is the Indie, back stock games. If OUYA has any kind of following emulation alone will wipe out the PS1/PS2/Nintendo catalogs. Who's going to buy back dated games at $10 a pop when you can grab an OUYA and get all and more for $100? Even at 500,000 install base OUYA will be as compelling to devs as xbl,android and ios market. The crowd maybe smaller but so will the OUYA market place, easier to get above the white noise.
Click to expand...

Points 2, 3, and 4 are especially important.
 
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