American Airlines Replacing Paper Maps with iPads

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Is this a good idea? First of all, I think I'd need to see the actual cost breakdown of replacing maps with iPads before I signed off on it. Secondly, not all pilots think this is a good idea:

It's a big worry. Consumer rubbish has no place in the cockpit. I'm a pilot - the cockpit is a place where everything is perfectly designed, perfectly reliable and responds immediately to commands, exactly as intended. One little "flake-out" and the plane (and people/structures on the ground) are at risk. I don't have time to battle with device resets or force-quitting or "Please verify your iTunes account password" when I'm trying to intercept the glide slope! Is this a joke?
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Until they make a mission critical certified iPad or any other electronic piece of hardware, then I don't want it anywhere where a mission critical system is. Period.
 
This is the same reason why NASA combs through Ebay for old "obsolete" hardware from the 80s. The hardware is known 100%, all its in's and out's, as there is no room for consumer-grade software and hardware in those types of applications.

I won't be flying if there are iPads up there. "The black box report shows that just prior the crash, 'Angry Birds' was running on the cockpit's iPad."
 
Why would the pilot be looking at a map (let alone a paper map) when on final approach, trying to pick up the glide slope?
 
I don't have time to battle with device resets or force-quitting or "Please verify your iTunes account password" when I'm trying to intercept the glide slope! Is this a joke?
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*chuckle*
 
Lets see...the guy who made the comment was "a pilot" who posted "on a forum". In short...he has logged 100 hours on a microsoft flight simulator.

Simply put, if you anybody here knew jack shit about aerospace and planes, the iPads won't be involved in anything critical. The best case is they wil lbe used for level E type functions wihch is "reading a map".
 
Trepidati0n said:
Lets see...the guy who made the comment was "a pilot" who posted "on a forum". In short...he has logged 100 hours on a microsoft flight simulator.

Simply put, if you anybody here knew jack shit about aerospace and planes, the iPads won't be involved in anything critical. The best case is they wil lbe used for level E type functions wihch is "reading a map".
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Incorrect. Pilots will be using the new Wii U controller to fly planes in the next year or 2.
;)
 
Trepidati0n said:
Lets see...the guy who made the comment was "a pilot" who posted "on a forum". In short...he has logged 100 hours on a microsoft flight simulator.

Simply put, if you anybody here knew jack shit about aerospace and planes, the iPads won't be involved in anything critical. The best case is they wil lbe used for level E type functions wihch is "reading a map".
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If a pilot has to consult a map, something is seriously wrong in the cockpit and a paper map that has no chance of failure is a great deal better situation than a consumer electronic device that can fail. A dedicated map device would be something to consider, but not a tablet computer.

And if you knew jack shit about emergency situations, you should know that you want to MINIMIZE the amount of problems in such a situation and not create new problem scenarios.

And learn to spell. Spell check is built into your browser for a reason.
 
I'd much rather have a paper map in my hands then having to use an Ipad. I still use paper maps in my car, no need for $200+ GPS units. With the battery, software updates, and many othe rfactors still in question, I dont see this as a remotely beneficial move.

I guess the checked bags fees will increase.
 
ballistic90 said:
If a pilot has to consult a map, something is seriously wrong in the cockpit...
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[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approach_plate"]Approach plate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:ATL_ILS_Runway8L.png" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/ATL_ILS_Runway8L.png/450px-ATL_ILS_Runway8L.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/b/ba/ATL_ILS_Runway8L.png/450px-ATL_ILS_Runway8L.png[/ame]
 
eurin said:
Approach plate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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"Approach Plates are essential for an airplane to make a safe landing during Instrument meteorological conditions (IMC), such as low ceilings or reduced visibility due to fog, rain, or blowing snow"

So these are intended for high-risk situations where the pilots are attempting to land with low or no visibility using only their instruments. That is a situations where introducing a new point of failure is unacceptable. My point still stands.
 
Why use paper when you can use electronics? iPad's never fail and i'm sure it's worth the extra money that AA doesn't have to incorporate them....

can you tell I was being sarcastic?
 
Good fact checking there guys. Some guy who joined a forum yesterday and now has 6 posts says they're a pilot, so it's OK to refer to him simply as "a pilot"?

I'm a pilot, too. Test pilot, actually. I've been to the ISS three times, and a Lieutenant Colonel in the USAF. I outrank Mr. Xanthia01, and I'm all for maps being on iPads. We never use them anyway.
 
ballistic90 said:
If a pilot has to consult a map, something is seriously wrong in the cockpit and a paper map that has no chance of failure is a great deal better situation than a consumer electronic device that can fail. A dedicated map device would be something to consider, but not a tablet computer.

And if you knew jack shit about emergency situations, you should know that you want to MINIMIZE the amount of problems in such a situation and not create new problem scenarios.

And learn to spell. Spell check is built into your browser for a reason.
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You're really gonna call him out on spelling? Noobie indeed! Don't bother coming here just to pick fights. It's a friendly, family-safe forum. Well, except for when Kyle posts. ;)
 
ballistic90 said:
If a pilot has to consult a map, something is seriously wrong in the cockpit and a paper map that has no chance of failure is a great deal better situation than a consumer electronic device that can fail. A dedicated map device would be something to consider, but not a tablet computer.

And if you knew jack shit about emergency situations, you should know that you want to MINIMIZE the amount of problems in such a situation and not create new problem scenarios.

And learn to spell. Spell check is built into your browser for a reason.
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IE9 does not have spell check built in.
 
ekuest said:
You're really gonna call him out on spelling? Noobie indeed! Don't bother coming here just to pick fights. It's a friendly, family-safe forum. Well, except for when Kyle posts. ;)
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So asking someone to make an attempt to spell is picking a fight? I figured calling him out on flawed logic was more picking a fight.

And an argument isn't a bad thing if it is specific to facts, opinions, interpretations of such that is being argued about. Arguing about whether or not the previous posted has a face that indeed looks like a butt is entirely a different matter ( I assume that is not the case, just to be clear. This is simply an example ).

I also don't find it a problem asking the person I quote to make an attempt to spell while posting as long as I contribute to the conversation at hand in an intelligent manner. :-P
 
kumquat said:
Good fact checking there guys. Some guy who joined a forum yesterday and now has 6 posts says they're a pilot, so it's OK to refer to him simply as "a pilot"?

I'm a pilot, too. Test pilot, actually. I've been to the ISS three times, and a Lieutenant Colonel in the USAF. I outrank Mr. Xanthia01, and I'm all for maps being on iPads. We never use them anyway.
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Adding to this, I work with a number of civilian pilots, mainly doctors who have their own planes and do a lot of flying for work. To a man, they've either converted or are in the process of converting to iPads with aviation-quality GPSes.
 
kumquat said:
Good fact checking there guys. Some guy who joined a forum yesterday and now has 6 posts says they're a pilot, so it's OK to refer to him simply as "a pilot"?

I'm a pilot, too. Test pilot, actually. I've been to the ISS three times, and a Lieutenant Colonel in the USAF. I outrank Mr. Xanthia01, and I'm all for maps being on iPads. We never use them anyway.
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There are better ways for any corporation to spend the money they claim they are not making on air travel. If they/ you are not using paper maps, then that would tell me that you dont need a $600 IPad paper weight. This just screams "BAD IDEA" to me. Also, this comment explains why the Air Force keeps spending billions of dollars on equipment, electronics, embossed leather chairs in public areas that are going to torn to shreds, and other really wasteful spending. Common Sense test, FAILED
 
More proof that the airlines aren't actually "struggling". Over charging for tickets , over charging for luggage , over charging for drinks and food , forcing pilots to work crazy hours with no breaks in between , forcing pilots to take massive pay cuts (many are vastly underpaid and don't get anymore than $19,000 a year) , forcing flight attendants and baggage staff to take pay cuts. BUT hey guess what? The airlines made over $3.2 billion dollars last year (that's right , with a B) on fee's charged for luggage and changing flights ...

And now the thinking is lets buy iPads that the pilots don't want and increase the possible risk of possible accidents while doing so.

Fuck.
 
A friend of mine is a pilot of both dual engine planes (IFR) and helicopters, he said told me that he wouldn't want to use an iPad in the cockpit.
 
I'm a pilot - the cockpit is a place where everything is perfectly designed, perfectly reliable and responds immediately to commands, exactly as intended.
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That sounds exactly like most Apple products, actually.
 
PMildren said:
There are better ways for any corporation to spend the money they claim they are not making on air travel. If they/ you are not using paper maps, then that would tell me that you dont need a $600 IPad paper weight. This just screams "BAD IDEA" to me. Also, this comment explains why the Air Force keeps spending billions of dollars on equipment, electronics, embossed leather chairs in public areas that are going to torn to shreds, and other really wasteful spending. Common Sense test, FAILED
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Regulations require them to carry maps. The "maps" are large, cumbersome books that cost thousands of dollars. The iPads won't be any more expensive and will be lighter.

They said this will save millions of dollars on fuel costs. I'm inclined to believe them. They're not putting these iPads in the cockpits because they're fun.
 
Godmachine said:
More proof that the airlines aren't actually "struggling". Over charging for tickets , over charging for luggage , over charging for drinks and food , forcing pilots to work crazy hours with no breaks in between , forcing pilots to take massive pay cuts (many are vastly underpaid and don't get anymore than $19,000 a year) , forcing flight attendants and baggage staff to take pay cuts. BUT hey guess what? The airlines made over $3.2 billion dollars last year (that's right , with a B) on fee's charged for luggage and changing flights ...

And now the thinking is lets buy iPads that the pilots don't want and increase the possible risk of possible accidents while doing so.

Fuck.
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That $3.2 billion is revenue and not profit, right?
 
No offense to anyone on this forum but the pilot sounds like your typical [H]'er with all that irrational Apple hate. I like how he talk about precision command and piloting when the planes pretty much flies themselves anyways.
 
The iPad is FAA certified now and many pilots use them in the cockpits. The iPad has some TERRIFIC route planning applications and is, really, a gigantic leap in the cockpit in terms of usability and reference. An 8 year old can now easily create a cross country flight using an iPad in almost no time at all.
 
Ah, here it is. US airlines, combined, drew in $3.4 billion in luggage fees in 2010.

Total overall industry profits were about $2 billion.
 
*Upfront disclaimer: I once had a private pilot license, long since lapsed. I know many airline pilots, though.

The airline pilots I know are basically evenly split on this. Some are fuddy-duddies who still use the old E6B "flight computer" that is really just a slide rule (I was an engineering student, it was always funny pointing out to the pilot students that they were doing vector calculus on a slide rule.) They'll give up their Jeppesen paper charts when pried from their cold dead hands.

The others, even the ones who aren't super-geeks, think it's a great idea. Don't have to worry about making sure they have the right chart, or the latest up-to-date chart. If it's an iPad app that auto-updates, they'll always have the right chart.

Yeah, a pilot shouldn't *HAVE* to consult a chart, but what happens in the (not exactly uncommon) occurrence where the destination airport is closed due to weather, and you have to divert to your secondary? If it's an airport you haven't been to very often, it's good to have the charts (approach plates, airport charts, etc,) to consult, even though you're not in "an emergency" situation.

However, even the techno-savvy pilots can't stand Airbus' no-real-manual-override fly-by-wire system. They all love Boeing's real-manual-override systems.
 
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