AMD’s next-gen Zen 5 X3D CPUs target September release (rumor)

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polonyc2

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Our source on the Computex show floor tells us AMD plans to launch 9000X3D processors in September...this matches the staggered release of X870E motherboards that we anticipate will arrive the same month...there’s no hard indication of which CPUs will arrive first, but an educated guess from historical releases suggests it’ll likely start with Ryzen 9 9950X3D and possibly Ryzen 9 9900X3D

it looks like retailers and partners are aware of this upcoming launch and have as such cut prices of all existing Ryzen 7000X3D CPU's...

https://www.club386.com/amds-next-gen-x3d-cpus-target-september-release/
 
polonyc2 said:
Our source on the Computex show floor tells us AMD plans to launch 9000X3D processors in September...this matches the staggered release of X870E motherboards that we anticipate will arrive the same month...there’s no hard indication of which CPUs will arrive first, but an educated guess from historical releases suggests it’ll likely start with Ryzen 9 9950X3D and possibly Ryzen 9 9900X3D

it looks like retailers and partners are aware of this upcoming launch and have as such cut prices of all existing Ryzen 7000X3D CPU's...

https://www.club386.com/amds-next-gen-x3d-cpus-target-september-release/
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2 months later vs. 5 months like with the 7000 series would be nice, though I don't feel the need for more CPU power at this point. It may be a good upgrade for those on a 5800X3D.

Don't know about the price cut being related to this. Retailers have at least been selling the 7800X3D for $340 for the past few months. AMD's SEP is still $370.
 
Armenius said:
2 months later vs. 5 months like with the 7000 series would be nice, though I don't feel the need for more CPU power at this point. It may be a good upgrade for those on a 5800X3D.

Don't know about the price cut being related to this. Retailers have at least been selling the 7800X3D for $340 for the past few months. AMD's SEP is still $370.
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I've been looking to upgrade from my 5800X (non 3D V-Cache) for months now...I was actually hoping the 9000 V-Cache CPU's would launch in early 2024, as it would make it easier for me to upgrade now to the 7800X3D or next month for the 9700X

so you think the 7800X3D will be fine going forward and there's no need to hold out for the 9800X3D?
 
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polonyc2 said:
I've been looking to upgrade from my 5800X (non 3D V-Cache) for months now...I was actually hoping the 9000 V-Cache CPU's would launch in early 2024, as it would make me upgrade now to the 7800X3D or next month for the 9700X

so you think the 7800X3D will be fine going forward and there's no need to hold out for the 9800X3D?
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I'm talking from a gaming perspective, so keep that in mind. If you look at CPU-bound situations the 7800X3D can be up to 25% faster than the 5800X3D, but as resolution goes up that gap shrinks quickly. At UHD 4K it's as little as 5%, but I have seen some benchmarks where GPU utilization is better with the 7800X3D. There are always going to be outliers where a game is dependent on CPU performance no matter the resolution, though, like flight sims and RTS games.

For me it really depends on two things: If it's really using N3E or N3P as rumors suggest and if the performance leap of Blackwell will be enough to push 4K in CPU-bound situations as the 4090 did with 2560x1440. In other words: Wait for the benchmarks :ROFLMAO:.
 
If you were to get a 7800x3D now and primarily played games at 1440p and above I'd say you could forget about Ryzen 9000 entirely. You're overall experience is unlikely to be any different between the two for AAA titles at high resolutions.

I just like hardware so I'll be swapping out my 7800x3D just for fun.
 
criccio said:
If you were to get a 7800x3D now and primarily played games at 1440p and above I'd say you could forget about Ryzen 9000 entirely. You're overall experience is unlikely to be any different between the two for AAA titles at high resolutions.

I just like hardware so I'll be swapping out my 7800x3D just for fun.
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isn't Zen 5 a new architecture?...I was hoping for a bigger leap then from Zen 2 to Zen 3...Zen 3 to Zen 4 wasn't that big of a jump...and yes I game at 1440p 144hz...I currently have a 4080 Super with plans to upgrade to a 5080
 
unless your sporting a 4090 on 1440p or below I can’t imagine much offers any real performance gains over the 5800x3d. But hey!
Maybe a 9800x3d and a 5080 won’t cost a second mortgage.
 
polonyc2 said:
isn't Zen 5 a new architecture?...I was hoping for a bigger leap then from Zen 2 to Zen 3...Zen 3 to Zen 4 wasn't that big of a jump...and yes I game at 1440p 144hz...I currently have a 4080 Super with plans to upgrade to a 5080
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It is, yes. For normal 1440p you'll just have to wait and see but depending on the games you play and if you're GPU bound now, your real world experience may not change much. Sure, the new chips will be faster on paper and may boost 1%/0.1% lows across the board but if the GPU is already pumping out frames as fast as it can, a faster CPU isn't going to drastically change much.

I'm at 4K so frankly, i definitely can skip this gen but... shiny things.
 
criccio said:
It is, yes. For normal 1440p you'll just have to wait and see but depending on the games you play and if you're GPU bound now, your real world experience may not change much. Sure, the new chips will be faster on paper and may boost 1%/0.1% lows across the board but if the GPU is already pumping out frames as fast as it can, a faster CPU isn't going to drastically change much.

I'm at 4K so frankly, i definitely can skip this gen but... shiny things.
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but aren't games becoming more CPU bound nowadays- Spider Man Remastered, Hogwarts Legacy etc?
 
polonyc2 said:
but aren't games becoming more CPU bound nowadays- Spider Man Remastered, Hogwarts Legacy etc?
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I've never liked the of people just labeling a game as a whole as being "CPU bound". The only time i've found this to be true is Star Citizen and that's because its a steaming pile of crap. Major studio AAA titles if I crank them on Ultra at 4K, i'm definitely always GPU bound.
 
I'm leaning towards building a new system with the 7800X3D...plus I can always upgrade down the line to Zen 5...with my current 5800X I have no real upgrade path other than the 5800X3D
 
Makes sense, with Intel next-gen arriving not much later.

AMD can sell for whatever price at launch, and then do discounts and/or a game bundle, for Intel's launch.
 
While I'd prefer a contemporaneous release of standard and 3D Cache CPU models, this is at least a better solution than it taking almost 6 months to arrive like before. There's also the question of motherboards given the delays for some X870E and X870 boards (the latter of which seem to be more like B650 chipsets from some reports in terms f features, which is worrisome. At least the X870E seem viable, but it will be interesting to see if they offer anything to X670E high end board owners who already have USB4 etc), maybe coming onto the scene closer to X3D chips. I am going to be very curious if there will be meaningful changes and fab structure differences to the 9000 X3D , such as putting cache on both CCDs of the 9950X3D and/or having both sides capable of the same frequencies. Hopefully we won't have long to wait to see!
 
RanceJustice said:
While I'd prefer a contemporaneous release of standard and 3D Cache CPU models, this is at least a better solution than it taking almost 6 months to arrive like before. There's also the question of motherboards given the delays for some X870E and X870 boards (the latter of which seem to be more like B650 chipsets from some reports in terms f features, which is worrisome. At least the X870E seem viable, but it will be interesting to see if they offer anything to X670E high end board owners who already have USB4 etc), maybe coming onto the scene closer to X3D chips. I am going to be very curious if there will be meaningful changes and fab structure differences to the 9000 X3D , such as putting cache on both CCDs of the 9950X3D and/or having both sides capable of the same frequencies. Hopefully we won't have long to wait to see!
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Well see, but honestly, the extra cache on both CCDs is no good unless there isn't a frequency drop, games do not perform well when spreading across multiple CCDs, and very few if any are capable of utilizing that many cores so if there is a frequency drop then it only hinders the production workloads that make the extra CCD desirable to begin with.

TSMC was showing off its new bonding processes in February, previously it would take a chip line it up with the cache use a solder layer and bond them.
Now TSMC can take the whole wafers, line them up and fuse them in a vacuum using pressure eliminating the soldering process and cutting back resistance, and because there are fewer steps there are fewer chances for contamination between the layers which shows a substantial improvement on yields.
But the cache is still very temperature sensitive and it acts as a huge insulator which when voltage is applied it is still going to get hot, so while the new process lets TSMC and AMD charge the same for better yields, thus a lower cost on the final product there is still the thermal issue that keeps the clocks lower.
This is why Intel's new designs place the cache on the bottom of the chip.
 
polonyc2 said:
I'm leaning towards building a new system with the 7800X3D...plus I can always upgrade down the line to Zen 5...with my current 5800X I have no real upgrade path other than the 5800X3D
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I'm going 7800X3D now because I picked up one from Amazon during the brief moment it was $320. Ivy-Bridge-E/X79 is really long in the tooth now.
 
Waiting eagerly to see what the x870 boards really look like. That will tell me storm peak or 9000 series.
 
I don't know why X3D is a separate line. The non X3D 9000 parts are probably going to be slower than the X3D 7000 parts. Why bother? Just release the line with X3D as the 'X' and non X3D as the non-X. All in one launch. Easy.
 
KazeoHin said:
I don't know why X3D is a separate line. The non X3D 9000 parts are probably going to be slower than the X3D 7000 parts. Why bother? Just release the line with X3D as the 'X' and non X3D as the non-X. All in one launch. Easy.
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wasn't the 7700X close in performance to the 5800X3D?...so the 9700X should theoretically be close in performance to the 7800X3D
 
KazeoHin said:
I don't know why X3D is a separate line. The non X3D 9000 parts are probably going to be slower than the X3D 7000 parts. Why bother? Just release the line with X3D as the 'X' and non X3D as the non-X. All in one launch. Easy.
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It might be because you only look at the high end and consumer lines, but AMD does have non-X as well as G, F, HX, and more. The non-X parts have lower clocks and TDP than their X counterparts.
 
criccio said:
At gaming, maybe. That's it. CPU's do a lot more.
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For the average person, not really?

Gaming, as a workload, is by far the most COMMON way to utilise the peak performance of your CPU. Everything else the average person does is really just using 2nd gear on a 7 speed transmission. Driving the Lamborghini under the speed limit on state roads. Pretty much everything I do 99% of the time could be accomplished on a Raspberry Pi. The only time most people need more performance than a ten-year-old mobile phone is when they're gaming. And yeah, some people spend a considerable time encoding on Handbrake, doing 3D rendering (that's me!) or photography work, but in terms of %% of people buying new CPUs? that represents less than 1% of them.

Hell, even hardcore hardware enthusiasts will ONLY see a 100% task manager readout when testing in Cinebench.
 
KazeoHin said:
Hell, even hardcore hardware enthusiasts will ONLY see a 100% task manager readout when testing in Cinebench.
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A steam install with a fast enough internet (and a slow enough CPU) other decompression can easily do it, code compilation, there a list of relatively common stuff (software developper is one of the most common jobs and computer usage out there, many just logging to an employer session, but many build stuff locally) that could use 64 fast threads.

KazeoHin said:
Gaming, as a workload, is by far the most COMMON way to utilise the peak performance of your CPU.
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If you have 12 thread or more, gaming almost never use peak performance of a cpu, nor get that close. it is hard for a game to use 100% of a cpu, even at a moderate core count. For a 9950x for example, here obviously the buyer would most of the time have game a bit as an afterthought.

KazeoHin said:
I don't know why X3D is a separate line. The non X3D 9000 parts are probably going to be slower than the X3D 7000 parts. Why bother? Just release the line with X3D as the 'X' and non X3D as the non-X. All in one launch. Easy.
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Price difference could make it a bit hard, the 9800x being much more expensive than a 9900 could make the sku hard to follow. 9950x costing a lot more than the 9950 but being worst at what most people would buy them for ?
 
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LukeTbk said:
A steam install with a fast enough internet (and a slow enough CPU) other decompression can easily do it, code compilation, there a list of relatively common stuff (software developper is one of the most common jobs and computer usage out there, many just logging to an employer session, but many build stuff locally) that could use 64 fast threads.


If you have 12 thread or more, gaming almost never use peak performance of a cpu, nor get that close. it is hard for a game to use 100% of a cpu, even at a moderate core count. For a 9950x for example, here obviously buyer would have game a bit as an afterthought.


Price difference could make it a bit hard, the 9800x being much more expensive than a 9900 could make the sku hard to follow. 9950x costing a lot more than the 9950 but being worst at what most people would buy them for ?
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I agree with everything you said. I do 3D rendering, I sure can use those threads! but I'm a minority.

For every software dev or artist, video editor etc, there's probably 100 gamers. there are definitely other workloads that can stress or take advantage of a modern X86 the CPU, but I think GAMING is by far, by a huge stretch, by a margin wide enough to fit the andromeda galaxy, the most common way to use your modern X86 CPU for something that can't be accomplished on a Raspberry Pi.
 
KazeoHin said:
For every software dev or artist, video editor etc, there's probably 100 gamers.
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There apparently 4.4 millions dev in the USA, there is around 120 millions active steam account worldwide and a lot happen on old cpus, for the purchase of a new expensive CPU the ratio could be closer than that, maybe 15 gamers : 1, but a lot of software engineer do not need a lot of cpu's, so maybe.

KazeoHin said:
the most common way to use your modern X86 CPU for something that can't be accomplished on a Raspberry Pi.
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This is underrating how much bloated modern software got, windows 11+ Chrome with 8 tabs open with one of them being 60fps HD youtube video in software mode, active antivirus, word, outlook and Excel 2021, the Spotify app.

Maybe all of this could be accomplished on raspberry pi with a different list of softwares, but with the one people actually use ? , better have 8GB of ram and a nice fast 8 threads CPU for just that to run has well as it can and I am just 50% joking.

I just helped someone saying his Chrome was using too much of its ram, when looking at the task manager, Skype (used to share the desktop) was using 20% of his old 4 threads CPU.....
 
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criccio said:
If you were to get a 7800x3D now and primarily played games at 1440p and above I'd say you could forget about Ryzen 9000 entirely. You're overall experience is unlikely to be any different between the two for AAA titles at high resolutions.

I just like hardware so I'll be swapping out my 7800x3D just for fun.
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The Zen5 based chips are said to be 10% higher, so even the X3D versions should experience a nearly equal speed increase. What I'd like to know is why AMD is holding back the X3D versions when we know there's going to be one.
 
DukenukemX said:
The Zen5 based chips are said to be 10% higher, so even the X3D versions should experience a nearly equal speed increase. What I'd like to know is why AMD is holding back the X3D versions when we know there's going to be one.
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Zen5 IPC uplift is 16%, per AMD, so on par with previous IPC increases. Real world 3rd party testing hasn't happened yet so that's all we know for now.

As for why they come out later, its extremely simple... profit. x3D came out later with Zen4 so they could sell the standard (faster at everything that doesn't use love cache) and people that were desperate to upgrade bought then. A few months pass and x3D comes out and those are bought as well. Hell, they knew 7800x3D would be a banger but to sell the 7950x3D and 7900x3D the 800x3D came out even later. (so expect to see 9800x3D even later than the other two)

IPC uplift for standard SKU's:
1718067823560.png

Source: AMD
 
DukenukemX said:
What I'd like to know is why AMD is holding back the X3D versions when we know there's going to be one.
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Could be supply chain at TSMC about something involved.

Could it be, with how the tech work you want the really best chips to make the X3D (because they are harder to cool and not waste the cache on mediocre one) and with a new process for them, it take time to accumulate enough of them ? They are quite popular and need good volume.

A small volume launch, near paper one, you have reviewer that talk about how much that new cpu you cannot buy is faster than the other new cpu you could buy
 
criccio said:
As for why they come out later, its extremely simple... profit. x3D came out later with Zen4 so they could sell the standard (faster at everything that doesn't use love cache) and people that were desperate to upgrade bought then. A few months pass and x3D comes out and those are bought as well. Hell, they knew 7800x3D would be a banger but to sell the 7950x3D and 7900x3D the 800x3D came out even later. (so expect to see 9800x3D even later than the other two)
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yup that's the exact reason...wouldn't make any sense from a business standpoint to release the X3D chips together with the non-X3D...with the staggered release you get the people desperate for an upgrade who don't want to wait and then a few months later you get another upgrade cycle...plus it also takes away some of the shine from whatever Intel releases
 
Lakados said:
games do not perform well when spreading across multiple CCDs, and very few if any are capable of utilizing that many cores
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The FPS hit from dual CCD's is minor. I've had difficulty finding scenarios where it's more than a trivial difference only seen in a benchmark.

And there are some games which benefit from the cores and post higher frames. Even though working over both CCD's is supposed to be a big problem :eek:

Specific games people point out for this, seem more like some kind of software bug than an actual technical problem of having two CCD.

Additionally, Zen 5 lowers CCD latency even more.
 
Tsumi said:
I'm going 7800X3D now because I picked up one from Amazon during the brief moment it was $320. Ivy-Bridge-E/X79 is really long in the tooth now.
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It's $320 at Micro Center right now. Store pick up only, of course.

https://www.microcenter.com/product...-8-core-boxed-processor-heatsink-not-included

1718108386978.png

LukeTbk said:
A steam install with a fast enough internet (and a slow enough CPU) other decompression can easily do it, code compilation, there a list of relatively common stuff (software developper is one of the most common jobs and computer usage out there, many just logging to an employer session, but many build stuff locally) that could use 64 fast threads.
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I have my AIO lighting set to change color based on temperature. The other day I notice out the corner of my eye that it was bright red. Looked at what it was doing and it was Diablo IV being patched in Battle.net. It was using 100% of all 8 cores and was touching 90C. Even when a game compiles shaders it only creeps into the orange (70-80C)
 
polonyc2 said:
seems like the main differences are the USB 4 support along with higher memory frequencies
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Yeah, but they are also adding full length x4 slots - which is actually useful to me. Heavily so.
KazeoHin said:
I don't know why X3D is a separate line. The non X3D 9000 parts are probably going to be slower than the X3D 7000 parts. Why bother? Just release the line with X3D as the 'X' and non X3D as the non-X. All in one launch. Easy.
Click to expand...

criccio said:
At gaming, maybe. That's it. CPU's do a lot more.
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This.
KazeoHin said:
For the average person, not really?

Gaming, as a workload, is by far the most COMMON way to utilise the peak performance of your CPU. Everything else the average person does is really just using 2nd gear on a 7 speed transmission. Driving the Lamborghini under the speed limit on state roads. Pretty much everything I do 99% of the time could be accomplished on a Raspberry Pi. The only time most people need more performance than a ten-year-old mobile phone is when they're gaming. And yeah, some people spend a considerable time encoding on Handbrake, doing 3D rendering (that's me!) or photography work, but in terms of %% of people buying new CPUs? that represents less than 1% of them.

Hell, even hardcore hardware enthusiasts will ONLY see a 100% task manager readout when testing in Cinebench.
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Gaming barely pushes CPUs most of the time - hence why X3d only has cache on one CCD. Tons of idle threads - one of the reasons we can multitask as well as we can these days (I regularly ran video transcodes, VMs, etc behind games without impact at all even before buying my Threadripper). For most games, that is.

And you'd be surprised how many buy for those use cases along WITH gaming. Some only game - those who do other things, also likely game. It's a superset. There's good reason I'm still considering Storm Peak threadrippers for my next system instead of just going with X670/X870 - I need the extra PCIE lanes and other parts, and for gaming, the 7960X is still pretty damned solid. I know far more people with 3950/7950/5950 than I do with the X3d variants (where available). Heck, were I forced to buy today, I'd pick up a 7950X for my workstation and a 7800X3d for my gaming box. 16 cores with only half cached isn't quite sane for my workstation use cases (heavy heavy VMs), and I don't need 16 cores for gaming.
 
As long as I'm hitting my performance target (1440@120) I don't need to upgrade. I have the Ryzen 7700x right now. Frankly I can see myself waiting until the am5 platform is done and buying the x3d part then.

Amd4 was 4 generations (1, 2, 3, 5). Amd5 hopefully similar
 
criccio said:
Zen5 IPC uplift is 16%, per AMD, so on par with previous IPC increases. Real world 3rd party testing hasn't happened yet so that's all we know for now.
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Realistically, I think it's going to be about 10%. Maybe more if AVX512 is in use, but otherwise mostly around 10%. If it's something like 16% then I might consider dumping my AM4 system and upgrade.
 
polonyc2 said:
AMD X870E and Ryzen 9000: in short, do not waste your time (or money) on it


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v26W-VslJgg
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About a minute and a half in and it was clearly just clickbait raging for views. Nothing new was going to be learned there.

What is interesting is X870 is basically what B650E used to be, and there won't be a B850E. This is good, too much overlap anyway. Frankly if they could do away with the E's entirely and just have Xx70 and Bx50 we'd be better off.

1718143953693.png


Rev. Night said:
I have the Ryzen 7700x right now.
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Certainly don't have a "need" to upgrade at all then. At least not up one generation.

Rev. Night said:
Amd4 was 4 generations (1, 2, 3, 5). Amd5 hopefully similar
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Yeah, Zen6 is basically guaranteed. After that we can hope.
 
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