AMD's ATI Eyefinity Technology Review @ [H]

BobSutan said:
This review begs the question is it better to just get a giant screen rather than spend the money for multiple monitors? I'd rather go the big screen route. Higher resolution, no borders around the multiple displays to piece the image together, and quite possibly cheaper.
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I think I'd rather have the compromise being discussed (if its possible) of the one large screen and two smaller in portrait mode. That way you get the best of both worlds.

It'd be hard to give up my 30", have the cash for or let alone have enough room for two more. I could fit two 20" monitors in portrait though. Not to mention a comparable cost to having three of some of the higher end 24" monitors.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 
Blackforge said:
I think I'd rather have the compromise being discussed (if its possible) of the one large screen and two smaller in portrait mode. That way you get the best of both worlds.

It'd be hard to give up my 30", have the cash for or let alone have enough room for two more. I could fit two 20" monitors in portrait though. Not to mention a comparable cost to having three of some of the higher end 24" monitors.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
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Yeah I agree, I am in a postion now where I just bought my 30inch Dell 29 days ago I called them and set up an RMA for the 3007WFP-HC for a refund but it kills me.. I already have the 2 side panels in Portrait (2007FP) IPS but I just use them for gadgets and email, but if I could game on all 3 (which I can with softTH and 3 video cards) but with the 5870 it's a no brainer...

So here is my new dilemma my friend just bought 3X2408WFP's from Dell and has offered to sell me his 2X2407WFP's and I found another one (2407WFP) local.. So now I can get 3X2407WFP's with the Dell active adapter for the same price as my 30inch Dell what do you think guys?? Keep my current set up and hope someday they support it or jump ship and roll with 3 2407WFP's?
 
Jimmmy said:
Yeah I agree, I am in a postion now where I just bought my 30inch Dell 29 days ago I called them and set up an RMA for the 3007WFP-HC for a refund but it kills me.. I already have the 2 side panels in Portrait (2007FP) IPS but I just use them for gadgets and email, but if I could game on all 3 (which I can with softTH and 3 video cards) but with the 5870 it's a no brainer...

So here is my new dilemma my friend just bought 3X2408WFP's from Dell and has offered to sell me his 2X2407WFP's and I found another one (2407WFP) local.. So now I can get 3X2407WFP's with the Dell active adapter for the same price as my 30inch Dell what do you think guys?? Keep my current set up and hope someday they support it or jump ship and roll with 3 2407WFP's?
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I'd wait to see what ATI comes back to Kyle with. He has the question posed to them if they'll ever support or plan to support a mixed monitor solution.
 
There is some fit and finish needed for it to work like the common person would expect, but for us bleeding edge people, that is VERY cool.

I think Kyle needs to use a thesaurus and find other words to describe the term "obviously" I think he said it around 73 times in that review. I'll have to back and check, but I think it was 73. At one point he did it twice in one sentence.
 
Brantoc said:
There is some fit and finish needed for it to work like the common person would expect, but for us bleeding edge people, that is VERY cool.

I think Kyle needs to use a thesaurus and find other words to describe the term "obviously" I think he said it around 73 times in that review. I'll have to back and check, but I think it was 73. At one point he did it twice in one sentence.
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Yeah, I have been kicking my own ass over that one. It is a problem that I have not been able to break. Getting better at dropping the umss and ahhs though.
 
sbuckler said:
Ok, I agree I haven't checked it's exactly 16:9, and I was just going by what you set.
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from my experience, source engine games usually completely ignore the actual aspect ratio setting, they derive correct fov settings purely from the resolution set. They dump 4:3 resolutions into the 4:3 category, and same thing with 16:10. Then, because there's absolutely no way they could label every other category, they dump every single other resolution into 16:9. (i think it's also because there are a couple of tv's that are not truely 16:9, even though advertise they are, so that makes the 16:9 category even more confusing). Either way, when you select 16:9 in source, you're not actually specifying 16:9 until you select a 16:9 resolution.

You must agree however that the image is distorted, like you are looking through a lens where only the centre is in focus and everything else gets stretched. e.g. looking at the video 16 mins in when you look left and right you can see the rocks and Alyx's face stretch as they move from the main monitor off the side of the right monitor. PC perspective pointed it out with their L4D video too.
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this complaint keeps coming up, and i'm not sure if we're all on the same page here so i wanted to clarify this.

Eyefinity technology (as well as any other multi screen technology: matrox and softth) Take multiple monitors, and assume it's a single monitor. Because of this, it's as if you took 3 monitors and put them all side by side to eachother with absolutly no angle difference between them. i'm not sure why all the reviewers are angling the screens toward viewer, other than correcting for annoying TN panel issues, this is wrong. When you assume that you actually have a completely flat viewing area as i describe, with out facing the monitors towards you,

THE STRETCHING YOU SEE ON THE PERIPHERAL MONITORS IS 100% CORRECT .

So, assuming the screens are all flat, and that you are the correct distance from the monitor, you should be able to look at the side screens and see a non-distortioned image. If you are seeing distortion, either the monitors are not flat to eachother, or you are too far away from the screens, or both. (obviously with all the reviews you see massive distortion because the camera is WAY too far away)


Now, i am going to argue one thing that is incorrect here, and no one is really to blame for this. The native field of view that games use is way too high. Half life 2, for example, uses a 70 degree field of view. I'm not sure how close you guys sit, but the my screen only takes up about 45 or 50 degrees of my vision at any time. This obviously makes the "distortion problem" worse because in order to get a distortion free playing experience you have to sit rediculously close to the screen.

For single screens this makes sense, simply because the distortion is unnoticable at that point and because playiing with a 50 degree window is unreasonable (most people usually do the opposite, and turn it up from 70 to 90 or so). However, with multiscreens i think this should be corrected to be more accurate. (half life 2 and css has a fov option, but it's considered a "cheat")

there is one thing i was assuming with the above paragraph, and i can't find any info on it. I'm not sure if half life 2 fov measured the angle from side to side or top to bottom or what. Either way, if it's any of the other options, it's even worse. Other games usually have similar angles and i'm pretty sure they all measure from side to side.

Ati need to be pushed to fix it. They should be on very good terms with Valve (who worked closely with them for HL2), so they need to work with valve and make that engine work perfectly (fov, angles, bezels, hud). That will mean perfect eye infinity for HL2, TF2, L4D, portal, ...
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if by a fix we mean something to allow gamers to actually angle the side monitors, this would be interesting, but sounds like a tough project. I'm not a programmer, or any form of software engineer ( i dont understand the workings of graphics api's). As such, i'm not sure how hard it would be separate the camera into three separate cameras to view each screen separately (as was suggested earlier in this thread).

Could this be something that could be done by video drivers or is this solely on the shoulders of the game producer's?


Finally, there is one thing i'm dissapointed the video review didn't address, although i'm not sure how big of a problem it is with today's game. There are some video games that do not handle aspect ratio's properly. Instead of properly adjusting the video from side to side, there are some games simlply cut off the top and bottom portions of the screen to adjust. This means that with an ultra wide setup you would actually be losing a large amount of information as oppose to a 4:3 setup.

I know stalker used to have this issue, not sure if it still does. Far Cry 2 i believe still has this issue.

Google image: far cry 2 aspect ratio . You'll find two images with red colors on top and bottom that display what i'm talking about.

also try searching: stalker widescreen.

Other than, good video review! Finally sommeone who clarified the ins and outs of eyefinity!
 
@Kyle

I noticed when you were playing Call of Duty World at War in 3x1 landscape mode that it was stretched. You need to run a hack to enable the proper aspect ratio. There's a multi-game widescreen/surround fixer that works on Battlefield 2, Battlefield 2142, Call of Duty 2, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, Call of Duty: World at War, Darkest of Days Demo, SEGA Rally Revo, Unreal Tournament, and Wolfenstein. You can get it here: http://imk.cx/pc/widescreenfixer/

There are a slew of game-specific widescreen/surround fixers as well, you'll need them for games like Halo, Assassins Creed, Mirrors Edge, FarCry2, etc. I've been gaming triple-screen for a while, I can provide you with links to relevant fixes and full tutorials on getting most games up-and-running properly (including HUD fixes for many games, bringing the HUD back to the middle screen).

As for your problems getting triple-portrait working, you need to set the resolution out-of-game. I'll use left4Dead as an example because it's relatively simple to do this for Source Engine games. Open your Steam games list, right click on Left4Dead, and select "properties". On the "Launch Options" tab, click the "Set launch Options" box.

Copy this into the launch options box and click OK.
Code: 
-w 3600 -h 1920 -novid

Next time you launch Left4Dead, it will start in 3600x1920. Setting the resolution of other games out-of-game may involve editing configuration files manually, but it's not all that hard.
 
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Even the largest of screens does not give you anywhere near the peripheral vision 3x smaller monitors gives you.
 
serpretetsky said:
There are some video games that do not handle aspect ratio's properly. Instead of properly adjusting the video from side to side, there are some games simlply cut off the top and bottom portions of the screen to adjust. This means that with an ultra wide setup you would actually be losing a large amount of information as oppose to a 4:3 setup.
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Bear in mind that by that logic you're suggesting a 3x2 eyefinity setup should have a narrower horizontal fov than a 3x1. I think "properly adjusting the video" should take into account the physical dimensions of the display and viewing position rather than simply using a "horizontal+" convention. In other words, the fov shouldn't be dictated by the aspect ratio, and should be freely adjustable.
 
serpretetsky said:
THE STRETCHING YOU SEE ON THE PERIPHERAL MONITORS IS 100% CORRECT .

So, assuming the screens are all flat, and that you are the correct distance from the monitor, you should be able to look at the side screens and see a non-distortioned image. If you are seeing distortion, either the monitors are not flat to eachother, or you are too far away from the screens, or both. (obviously with all the reviews you see massive distortion because the camera is WAY too far away)
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I'd have to disagree with this. Somebody else mentioned PCper.com's video coverage for instance, and over there he actually pauses. Says "Look at this bookcase on my center screen. See how wide the books are?" Then he turns so the bookcase is on the left, and then on the right side. In both cases the books became much wider. It isn't just an optical illusion caused by recording, nor because the monitors are angled. Several games really are drawing things stretched on the side screens.
 
Litfod said:
Bear in mind that by that logic you're suggesting a 3x2 eyefinity setup should have a narrower horizontal fov than a 3x1. I think "properly adjusting the video" should take into account the physical dimensions of the display and viewing position rather than simply using a "horizontal+" convention. In other words, the fov shouldn't be dictated by the aspect ratio, and should be freely adjustable.
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That is exactly what i am suggesting. But i'm only suggesting with the assumption that games can handle aspect ratio with only one of two ways. Either

a) they give priority to wide aspect ratio. With this settings the vertical angle always stays the same, and only the widesness is adjusted

b) they give priority to height aspect ratio. With this setting the horizontal angle stays the same and the vertical angle is adjusted.

Most games do a). There a few that do b). b) sucks.

I agree with you it'd be cool if games gave you complete control... but they don't :(.
 
Ualdayan said:
THE STRETCHING YOU SEE ON THE PERIPHERAL MONITORS IS 100% CORRECT .

So, assuming the screens are all flat, and that you are the correct distance from the monitor, you should be able to look at the side screens and see a non-distortioned image. If you are seeing distortion, either the monitors are not flat to eachother, or you are too far away from the screens, or both. (obviously with all the reviews you see massive distortion because the camera is WAY too far away)
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I'd have to disagree with this. Somebody else mentioned PCper.com's video coverage for instance, and over there he actually pauses. Says "Look at this bookcase on my center screen. See how wide the books are?" Then he turns so the bookcase is on the left, and then on the right side. In both cases the books became much wider. It isn't just an optical illusion caused by recording, nor because the monitors are angled. Several games really are drawing things stretched on the side screens.
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You aren't getting it...

The supposed "distortion" on the side screens is optically correct, you just need to be the proper distance from the displays for it to line up correctly with your vision.

Your eyes see the same thing, objects get wider the closer to the edges of your vision they get. The difference here is that you're looking directly at something that should be in your peripheral, something your eyes and brain generally do not allow, THAT'S why it looks weird.

When sitting within a marginally correct distance from your displays, looking streight ahead at the center monitor, the distortion on the side screens simply vanishes as it lines up with your eyes own field of view. This is something you cannot capture correctly on-camera, and it saddens me that so few people seem to understand it.
 
Thanks for asking the question appreciate it.. Well I am going for 3X2407WFP's then because otherwise the wait may be indefinite and I still have the out with my 30inch..
 
that

is

HOT

Nvidia is going to have to shamelessly copy this there just isn't any way around it. I've always leaned toward Nvidia because of what I think are better drivers but I'll get this if Nvidia doesn't have a similar feature on their new cards.
 
Soggy said:
Nvidia is going to have to shamelessly copy this there just isn't any way around it.
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Just like ATi shamelessly copied Matrox, yeah. :rolleyes:

Why does everybody forget matrox has had graphics cards that can do this for years? Even newer is the Matrox TripleHead2Go, which brings the ability to run up to 5040x1050 to any graphics card.

This [H]ard|OCP review of the Matrox Parhelia from 2002 look familiar? http://www.hardocp.com/article/2002/05/14/matrox_parhelia_technology
 
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This makes 30" monitors seem useless to me.

I can just spend about $5-600 on three 19-22" monitors.

The review was amazing and the reason why I quit console gaming.
 
Aside from games I'm actually interested in the solid modeling/CAD arena. As an engineer, I can see huge benefits for me using technology like this. Does anyone know how this ports over to anything meaningful?
 
I know people have been complaining about the distraction of the larger bezels when stacking 3 or more monitors together. I think this is a perfect opportunity for someone to come along and create a singular bezel design that de-bezels the current LCD's and puts the those nude LCD's into a new integrated enclosure where the LCD-2-LCD seam lines are completely minimized as much as possible. Just a thought.
 
Unknown-One said:
@Kyle

I noticed when you were playing Call of Duty World at War in 3x1 landscape mode that it was stretched. You need to run a hack to enable the proper aspect ratio. <snip>
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Thanks for the information, we are well aware of widescreen gaming hacks. You will NOT see a bunch of that in our content here. Our objective will be to keep the heat on game devs and hardware partners to get it right out of the box. :)

Methadras said:
Aside from games I'm actually interested in the solid modeling/CAD arena. As an engineer, I can see huge benefits for me using technology like this. Does anyone know how this ports over to anything meaningful?
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Oh yes, you can bet that AMD is planning on entering this market full force when they get all the bugs worked out.
 
Wow. Awesome review, Kyle! I just watched the entire video, and read every post. let me make sure I got a few things right.

1. AMD is working on a solution allowing three dvi, right?

2. You stated that most games are more gpu dependent now; so the rig in my sig could be somewhat capable of this awesomeness?

3. any chance you will do a review of a 3x2 landscape group?... I don't think it would work for FPSs much, but it would be sexy... impractical, but sexy....(kind of like my wife! j/k)

4. wowee! whoohoo! AAUUGGHH!!!
 
Unknown-One said:
Just like ATi shamelessly copied Matrox, yeah. :rolleyes:

Why does everybody forget matrox has had graphics cards that can do this for years? Even newer is the Matrox TripleHead2Go, which brings the ability to run up to 5040x1050 to any graphics card.

This [H]ard|OCP review of the Matrox Parhelia from 2002 look familiar? http://www.hardocp.com/article/2002/05/14/matrox_parhelia_technology
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Bang on man. I was thinking the exact same thing. They really were ahead of their time with that thing.
 
Unknown-One said:
Just like ATi shamelessly copied Matrox, yeah. :rolleyes:

Why does everybody forget matrox has had graphics cards that can do this for years? Even newer is the Matrox TripleHead2Go, which brings the ability to run up to 5040x1050 to any graphics card.

This [H]ard|OCP review of the Matrox Parhelia from 2002 look familiar? http://www.hardocp.com/article/2002/05/14/matrox_parhelia_technology
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I don't think the Matrix solution had the graphics processing power to do what the 5870 can do.
 
Zorachus said:
Thank you Kyle. So pretty much, all of us 30" crowd are fucked for Eyefinity to put it politely. When I bought my Apple 30" Display back in 2005/2006 when that size was still pretty new, and even before Dell made one, I thought I had the top cool factor for gaming :cool: ? And even up until September this year the 30" monitor was still the [H]ardest wicked display to own.

Now it seems like the worst thing to own after Eyefinity got released, I mean most gamers, even us that bought the 30", can NOT afford to buy three of them. So triple screen gaming on 3 - 30" is out of the question, and at least costing $3,000 - $5,000 :eek: Where as three awesome 24" 1920x1200res monitors will run you $1,800 max for very nice top of the line versions, you should be able to get decent 24" displays for like $1,000 - $1,200 total for three.

So basically for the price of one sweet 30" Display, you can buy 3 nice 24" monitors, and the gaming factor and wet your pants factor will be million times better on the 3 - 24" vs 1 - 30". Wouldn't you agree, Kyle and Brent ?
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Well if the Dell Outlet would ever get the 3007WFP-HC back in stock at $799/each I might try it.. :D
 
May have missed this, but with the current set of divers is CrossFire with just a standard dual monitor setup supported?
 
Unknown-One said:
You aren't getting it...

The supposed "distortion" on the side screens is optically correct, you just need to be the proper distance from the displays for it to line up correctly with your vision.

Your eyes see the same thing, objects get wider the closer to the edges of your vision they get. The difference here is that you're looking directly at something that should be in your peripheral, something your eyes and brain generally do not allow, THAT'S why it looks weird.

When sitting within a marginally correct distance from your displays, looking streight ahead at the center monitor, the distortion on the side screens simply vanishes as it lines up with your eyes own field of view. This is something you cannot capture correctly on-camera, and it saddens me that so few people seem to understand it.
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Well, obviously since I don't have an Eyefinity setup myself I have to rely on others telling me of their experiences. I know that several reviewers have spotted very noticeable stretching so your idea that it should vanish doesn't seem to really be happening for anybody. (and the stretching doesn't happen on every game either, you seem to be saying the ones that don't do it are the ones you think are wrong)

I'm not so sure about your idea of things being stretched so much in our peripheral vision. I get what you are saying, but if I take an object and hold it in front of me, then move it slowly to the side while staring straight ahead the object DOES NOT become 3-4x wider like what is happening in some games right now.

BTW - if our eye naturally makes things wider in our peripheral vision, and the graphics card makes them wider to simulate that, isn't that making things EXTREMELY wide because the game is doing it AND our eyes are doing it too?

edit: Although I should be a bit more fair and state my vision isn't exactly normal, and I wear contacts with astigmatism correction. But to me - things don't look wider at the edge of my vision like you say your vision is. Maybe it's different for other people?
 
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Ualdayan said:
Well, obviously since I don't have an Eyefinity setup myself I have to rely on others telling me of their experiences. I know that several reviewers have spotted very noticeable stretching so your idea that it should vanish doesn't seem to really be happening for anybody. (and the stretching doesn't happen on every game either, you seem to be saying the ones that don't do it are the ones you think are wrong)

I'm not so sure about your idea of things being stretched so much in our peripheral vision. I get what you are saying, but if I take an object and hold it in front of me, then move it slowly to the side while staring straight ahead the object DOES NOT become 3-4x wider like what is happening in some games right now.

BTW - if our eye naturally makes things wider in our peripheral vision, and the graphics card makes them wider to simulate that, isn't that making things EXTREMELY wide because the game is doing it AND our eyes are doing it too?

edit: Although I should be a bit more fair and state my vision isn't exactly normal, and I wear contacts with astigmatism correction. But to me - things don't look wider at the edge of my vision like you say your vision is. Maybe it's different for other people?
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it's irrelevant whether you're actually looking from the "side" of your eye. I'm saying you can actually look right at the "distorted" image and see it completely correctly. If you are still seeing it distorted, you are either not positioned correctly, or the game fov has to be changed (the latter isn't always possible...)
screenstretch.jpg


I drew this image a while ago. the screen, when drawing the same object in front of the observer, and from the side, must draw the object much larger to allow the same angle of vision (because the human eyes percieves object size by angle, not how big it actually is, which is why the moon looks the same size as the sun)

so a tree similarly sized and equally distant from observer must be drawn larger on the side screen.

I will agree though, that most game assume too large of a fov, forcing the observer to sit far closer to the screen than comfortable for proper viewing.

edit: double edit:
I'm not so sure about your idea of things being stretched so much in our peripheral vision. I get what you are saying, but if I take an object and hold it in front of me, then move it slowly to the side while staring straight ahead the object DOES NOT become 3-4x wider like what is happening in some games right now.
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the problem is that if you move an object to the side of your vision using your arm, that object stays the same distance from your eyes. With a screen, an equally sized object gets smaller as it gets farther and farther away to the side of the screen. The distortion is NOT occuring because of some occular property with how your eyes work. The distortion is occuring because video games are trying to apply a very "round" world to a flat screen, which when not viewed from correct position will be distorted.
 
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How would this work in RTS games? Would you be able to fill the screens with more of the battlefield or just a stretched version?
 
RiZnO said:
How would this work in RTS games? Would you be able to fill the screens with more of the battlefield or just a stretched version?
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You should see more of the battlefield. The guru3d article that was posted on the front page had an RTS in it that gives an example.
 
Wow, amazing reviews... Yall just keep pumping em out! Great Work! I got lucky with getting an order in on newegg for a 5870... gonna see if it fits in my shuttle =D
 
serpretetsky said:
I agree with what you have shown above, but what matters here is that it looks wrong. I see no distortion like that in real life, I expect to see no distortion in a game. It needs fixing. 3D games are designed to fool the brain into thinking something is 3D despite the fact all we are doing is looking at dots on a flat screen, the HL2 engine can't do that properly for very wide aspect ratios.

Obviously how you do that is up to the devs - multiple view points, a curved screen (as far as game is concerned), etc - there are lots of examples of this out here before eye infinity arrived. What we all agree is ati must work with the game devs to get this to work correctly (i.e. it *looks right*) or eye infinity will never take off.
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There's no way to make the stretching "look right". That's what happens when you render with a very large FOV.

If you are positioned correctly in front of the screens it should look normal. Obviously if you are looking at a wide image on a single screen directly in front of you, it won't look right.

Think of it like the stretched lettering on roads and adverts they paint on sports fields. From the correct angle it looks normal.
 
meatfestival said:
There's no way to make the stretching "look right".
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Of course that's not correct. If I were good at drawing I could draw the image just fine and make it "look right", alyx's head would not be a funny shape.


meatfestival said:
That's what happens when you render with a very large FOV.

If you are positioned correctly in front of the screens it should look normal. Obviously if you are looking at a wide image on a single screen directly in front of you, it won't look right.

Think of it like the stretched lettering on roads and adverts they paint on sports fields. From the correct angle it looks normal.
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"looks normal" being the optimal words. It should "look normal" to me, if it doesn't then it's being done wrong. Obviously this can be fixed - do you think eye infinity is the first time anyone has ever done displays this wide? There are tens of thousands of very wide multi-projector power walls out there displaying 3d engineering data and they work just fine.

All 3D rendering is doing is fooling the brain by drawing on the screen in a way that makes it look 3D, exactly the same as I can draw a 3D image on a piece of paper. If my brain is quite clearly telling me this is wrong because Alyx's head looks twice as wide as it does high then the 3D rendering is wrong.
 
sbuckler said:
If my brain is quite clearly telling me this is wrong because Alyx's head looks twice as wide as it does high then the 3D rendering is wrong.
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No, as someone has already mentioned, the rendering is optically correct. You are viewing it straight on instead of from an angle at the edge of your vision. That's why it looks wrong.

You clearly aren't grasping this. There is no magic way of rendering a wide FOV image from a single viewpoint without seeing stretching. The only alternative is a letterboxed image with a narrow FOV.
 
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meatfestival said:
No, as someone has already mentioned, the rendering is optically correct. You are viewing it straight on instead of from an angle at the edge of your vision. That's why it looks wrong.
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You seem to be assuming fov in games does matches where you are sitting in relation to the screen, this is an incorrect assumption. e.g. ut2004 had a standard fov of 90 degrees for a 4/3 screen in the days when everyone had 17 inch screens. You do the math - to be correct we should have all had our eyes a few inches from our screens. I play halo on an xbox from my sofa. My fov across the tv must be about 20 degrees, yet the game doesn't give me 20 degree fov in game?

I understand the math, and the angles. I agree if you sit very close to a very wide display that some distortion as seen on the football field might be required. Although to do that you'd need to know the true fov of your head to the screen, and take into account the way people angle the outer screens.

Anyway back on point - you currently have no idea what the users fov to their screen is and they'll probably angle the displays anyway, so the default should be no distortion. Perhaps one day ati will come out with fancier setup where you can input the exact position of your head, the screens, etc and a *little* distortion will be added to counter the angle to the screens.
 
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Kyle, if and when amd does crossfire on eyefinity, will we be able to do more than 6 six screens?
 
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