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AMD Zen CPUs?

Geonerd said:
Sure it does. A big fat GPU core is a waste of transistors that could be dedicated to bigger caches and/or more x86 cores. Look at the Kaveri chips; they waste over half the die on GPU units that are (A) too bandwidth starved to ever work well, and (B) will go unused the moment you install a dedicated video card. Nevermind the increased cost...

I'd MUCH rather AMD offered a 3 or 4 module Steamroller, perhaps fluffed with an L3, combined with about 25% of the current shader inventory. This would make for decent x86 performance on well threaded apps, and still allow enough GPU for HSA / OpenCL / etc. applications to run. Such a chip would give me some slim reason to ditch my Thuban and go for a newer FM2+ system.
Click to expand...

If You are on Thuban then we had viable upgrades for that for years.
I ditched mine X6 1055T for Sandy Bridge 2500K and never looked back.
 
Michaelius said:
If You are on Thuban then we had viable upgrades for that for years.
I ditched mine X6 1055T for Sandy Bridge 2500K and never looked back.
Click to expand...

I'm currently running a Thuban 1090T OC'd @ 4.0ghz and thinknig about an upgrade, just not sure if its worth it or if I should wait til new Intel cpus or see what AMD comes out with.
 
Michaelius said:
If You are on Thuban then we had viable upgrades for that for years.
I ditched mine X6 1055T for Sandy Bridge 2500K and never looked back.
Click to expand...

At this point, "upgrading" to a quad core anything from an FX 8350 or so is just a complete waste of money. Little to know difference except in Benchmarks. Now, the only upgrade that I would find worthwhile at the moment would be an 5820K, X99 chipset mainboard and 16GB of DDR4 ram.

However, I think I will just wait until AMD comes out with their new chip. I will upgrade at that time and probably not before it.
 
durquavian said:
.....Rather maybe for you and I an APU with a smaller iGPU that is really just for the HSA component.
Click to expand...

i think that is what i have been arguing for...

Digital Viper-X- said:
Not sure what the point is here, the GPU on the 7850 has nothing to do with the performance of the cpu, on top of that, the i7 has an iGPU as well..

if the 7850 provided you with 80% of the performance of the i7, which would you buy then?
Click to expand...

I. Want. More. Cores.

Kaveri is 2.5 billion transistors, despite that enormous budget it only has four cores and no l3, because the GPU requires about one billion transistors.

That is the point.

KazeoHin said:
There really should be two sets of die designs to bin:

One that is CPU geared: with 8 cores, a small L3 cache and about 20% of the die devoted to the GPU. This wouldn't be playing games off the IGPU, it's designed to maximise CPU power, while having a 'good enough' GPU portion for HD/4k movies and a smooth desktop. This could be binned down to cheaper, 6 and 4 core varieties, some with the GPU disabled completely. This chip could be used for HPC products, workstations and high-end gaming machines.

The second die design should be more APU focused, with a huge portion of the silicon devoted to the IGPU, and four cores with no L3. This could be binned down to 2 cores and chop the GPU down incrementally to match a price point. Obviously for mobile PCs, media centres and HSA workstations.
Click to expand...


yes!
 
I. Want. More. Cores.
Click to expand...

I want cores with more processing units / ALUs inside each core so that IPC is closer to Intel. If that limits Zen to 6 total cores + GPU I would be happy.
 
R3MF said:
i think that is what i have been arguing for...



I. Want. More. Cores.

Kaveri is 2.5 billion transistors, despite that enormous budget it only has four cores and no l3, because the GPU requires about one billion transistors.

That is the point.




yes!
Click to expand...

Well, AMD could add more cores, and remove some GPU cores, but they won't so it seems your desire for more cores, and the current lack of cores and L3 on the APUs, has nothing to do with the GPU, and more to do with marketing and profit :p
 
Trimlock said:
So pretty much what they do now :D minus the gpu portion on the AM3+.
Click to expand...

Well, the silicon on AM3+ is 3 years old. There has been FM2, FM2+ and AM1 and a whole range of unique silicon for each in the time since the 8350 release. AM3+ is effectively dead.
 
KazeoHin said:
Well, the silicon on AM3+ is 3 years old. There has been FM2, FM2+ and AM1 and a whole range of unique silicon for each in the time since the 8350 release. AM3+ is effectively dead.
Click to expand...

Sure but the fastest silicon is still using that AM3+ socket. All I ment was they are doing what most want them to do, supply silicon with gpu's and silicon without it.
 
Trimlock said:
Sure but the fastest silicon is still using that AM3+ socket. All I ment was they are doing what most want them to do, supply silicon with gpu's and silicon without it.
Click to expand...

Well, that is not going to happen with the existing architecture. It would not make them money and that is one thing they must do to stay alive. I would have to say, wait until late this year or early 2016 and then we will see what is going to happen.
 
ManofGod said:
Well, that is not going to happen with the existing architecture. It would not make them money and that is one thing they must do to stay alive. I would have to say, wait until late this year or early 2016 and then we will see what is going to happen.
Click to expand...

Huh? That is literally what is happening right now. But you are right, they are bleeding tons of money, which didn't have much to do with choice of integrated gpu's but their initial roll out of bulldozer, shitty chipset decisions and inability to compete on mobility.

Most of this should get much better when they change their design and general core direction.
 
 
How does that work with 16nm that supposedly is the process there using for the new cpu?
 
Not EOL as in they won't support the platform by continuing to offer the current crop of CPU's, but there is nothing coming based on any newer core revisions or anything.
 
Trimlock said:
Has AM3+ been announced to be EOL?
Click to expand...

all different flavours of Piledriver :) even the ones that are several years to late.

It was EoL when some joker said that FX was not end of line but it had no value on the platform (AM3+) since there was a chip on FMx which held FX designation.

AMD does not want to waste money on AM3+ and hopes that the cpu in 2016 will be a lot better.
 
NaroonGTX said:
Not EOL as in they won't support the platform by continuing to offer the current crop of CPU's, but there is nothing coming based on any newer core revisions or anything.
Click to expand...

Sure, but since we are all saying this socket, or even socket type, is going away I think it'll be smart to wait for an EOL designation.

I think the FM socket well be going away in 2016 as well, but knowing AMD anything could happen.
 
There still making good money on FMx so that would mean that there leaving the X86 business if FMx gets dropped because there is hardly any ground for AMD in the low power segment on X86.
 
What in hell leads you to this bogus conclusion? The next apu's are coming out on FM3 socket. That is Carrizo. ZEN Iin 2016, which is an x86 processor of totally new design will start a new socket. Zen will have both x86 and ARM design and will give Intel stiff comletition in both performance and energy efficiency. It may or may not include stackable memory to work with the die. More details will emerge on Zen after Carrizo goes into production.
 
AFAIK K12 is Arm design and Zen is x86. Zen is the code name for x86 design.
 
os2wiz said:
What in hell leads you to this bogus conclusion? The next apu's are coming out on FM3 socket. That is Carrizo.
Click to expand...

hold your horses there, champ.
if you have news that desktop Carrizo arrives on socket FM3 a lot of people here would like to hear of it...?

:)
 
R3MF said:
hold your horses there, champ.
if you have news that desktop Carrizo arrives on socket FM3 a lot of people here would like to hear of it...?

:)
Click to expand...

I may be wrong about Carrizo and FM3 , but somehow I remember that it was not to be FM2. My main point is the poster who said AMD is abandoning x86 is just completely full of it. Zen definitely is a hybrid cpu with both ARM and x86 architectures.
 
Last edited:
os2wiz said:
I may be wrong about Carrizo and FM3 , but somehow I remember that it was not to be FM2. My main point is the poster who said AMD is abandoning x86 is just completely full of it. Zen definitely is a hybrid cpu with both ARM and x86 architectures.
Click to expand...

There are two upcoming products from AMD: K12 and Zen

K12 is ARM and/or hybrid. Zen is the new x86 architecture.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7990/amd-announces-k12-core-custom-64bit-arm-design-in-2016

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/anton-shilov/amd-we-have-bright-future-in-2016-and-ahead/
 
pgaster said:
There are two upcoming products from AMD: K12 and Zen

K12 is ARM and/or hybrid. Zen is the new x86 architecture.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7990/amd-announces-k12-core-custom-64bit-arm-design-in-2016

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/anton-shilov/amd-we-have-bright-future-in-2016-and-ahead/
Click to expand...

I'll dig up the link if you like but there's a video of jim keller giving an interview saying the arm and x86 cores are the same. Not 100% the same since they obviously use different instruction sets, but highly related.
 
Darakian said:
I'll dig up the link if you like but there's a video of jim keller giving an interview saying the arm and x86 cores are the same. Not 100% the same since they obviously use different instruction sets, but highly related.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know. You probably mean this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOTFE7sJY-Q

That is from May 2014. Then there is a link to a thread with updates: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic...xt-generation-high-performance-x86-arm-cores/

"UPDATE 2 : This has been officially confirmed and is no longer a rumor. AMD is working on a new "from scratch" x86 high performance core along with a "sister" ARM core dubbed K12."

Then there is a link to here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7991/amd-is-also-working-on-a-new-64bit-x86-core

"Jim Keller joined Mark Papermaster on stage at AMD's Core Innovation Update press conference and added a few more details to AMD's K12 announcement. Keller stressed AMD's expertise in building high frequency cores, as well as marrying the strengths of AMD's big cores with those of its low power cores. The resulting K12 core is a 64-bit ARM design, but Jim Keller also revealed that his team is working on a corresponding 64-bit x86 core.

The x86 counterpart doesn't have a publicly known name at this point, but it is a new design built from the ground up."


Now we know that the new X86 is Zen, which is the topic of this thread, not anything ARM, not K12.
I just want misinformation to stop and for people to use the correct terminology.
 
os2wiz said:
I may be wrong about Carrizo and FM3 , but somehow I remember that it was not to be FM2. My main point is the poster who said AMD is abandoning x86 is just completely full of it. Zen definitely is a hybrid cpu with both ARM and x86 architectures.
Click to expand...

Just 2 versions which supposedly run on the same socket, new motherboards will support both ARM and X86.

AMD is still making money on X86 so they are not ditching it. But if you checked out http://semiaccurate.com/2014/12/29/intel-funnel-contra-revenue-funds/

AMD is not dumping money into the same "places" as Intel does.
 
YOU CAN"T put 4GB of memory on A CPU/APU DIE!!!!!!!!!!!

That is only allowed for 128GB+ Thumb Drives.

Okay Fun is over.
2016: To Convert video from one (1) format to another FASTER than Intel.
If it is done by the CPU, (x86) then we need more cores and higher internal memory speed.
If it is done by the APU, (IGPU) then we need to bribe all the major software encoder people to start using Mantel now.
If they refuse, shoot them.......

Q: If your VRM blows on your overclocked motherboard and takes out your CPU. Who is responsible for replacing the CPU????? ASUS or AMD

Thank you for reading my deranged comments. I did have a thought there for a moment on this subject, but lost it in the quantum possibilities that could happen in 14 months.
 
Or 64GB microSD cards. :D
...but that's a different memory technology that has much slower read/write speeds, in exchange for greater permanence.
 
MaddMutt said:
Q: If your VRM blows on your overclocked motherboard and takes out your CPU. Who is responsible for replacing the CPU????? ASUS or AMD

Thank you for reading my deranged comments. I did have a thought there for a moment on this subject, but lost it in the quantum possibilities that could happen in 14 months.
Click to expand...

It isn't the fault of Asus or AMD, it is YOUR FAULT...OC'ing isn't a guaranteed thing, and even though these companies market OC oriented Mobos, it is up to you to do proper research and make sure the board can support the CPU in question's TDP (see some early 990FX boards not having the VRM circuitry needed to handle the 125W+ FX SKUs)..

Also, you have better chance of winning the lottery then getting Asus to RMA a MB..
 
I know it has been some years since I read the news story. I don't remember when or what web site I read the story but AMD had bought the company that made Z-ram. It was suppose to be 1/5 the size of normal Sram, that's found on CPU's and was to be as fast or faster, depending upon the size of the node. It was also stackable. This would give the large memory needed but only take up 5-8% of the CPU DIE. If AMD stays with only using x86 cores, this would allow (AM4) on a 22nm node to contain a +/- 24 module CMT uarch.

The Time Machine : For the readers on here (the OLD ONES will still remember) that complained about AMD keeping the x86 ISA, when it added x64 bit computing to it.
Intel, at the time, had (2) TWO different ISA's going at the same time.
If you had a Intel DESKTOP computer, you where using the x86 uarch. AMD and Intel still have this old CROSS LICENSE AGREEMENT. Intel also wanted x64 bit computing, so for SERVERS, it was PUSHING IA64. This was a x64 bit CPU but suffered a BIG PERFORMANCE HIT if it ran x86 code. AMD was allowed to make x86 uarch CPU's BUT was not allowed to make IA64 CPU's (No Agreement).
SO if AMD wanted to really break into the SERVER MARKET????????

Thank you for reading my deranged comments. I did have a thought there for
a moment on this subject, but lost it in the quantum possibilities that could happen in 14 months.
 
I know it has been some years since I read the news story. I don't remember when or what web site I read the story but AMD had bought the company that made Z-ram. It was suppose to be 1/5 the size of normal Sram, that's found on CPU's and was to be as fast or faster, depending upon the size of the node. It was also stackable. This would give the large memory needed but only take up 5-8% of the CPU DIE. If AMD stays with only using x86 cores, this would allow (AM4) on a 22nm node to contain a +/- 24 module CMT uarch.
Click to expand...

I believe this only worked for SOI and since they are no longer going to use SOI this is out.
 
AGAIN..... I don't remember when or what web site I read the story. I had read that GF was on track/time with using FDSOI at 22nm. Somehow ......this FDSOI at 22nm is the same as FINFET at 14-16nm. I still hope for a CPU only version.

If this ZEN (or what ever they end up calling it) is close to Intel on Performance, I still would not be able to buy it.
It was just _______ when AMD came out with new GPU's. The re-branded 7970 (as the 280x) was very nice. I was able to pick up several 280x's at under $175. When AMD first released the R9 290x and it was faster than the NVidia 780 and the Titan. I love AMD and also the underdog BUT $1500 for ONE (1) video card.
The ZEN needs to be as close to or better than the Intel chip it's going against, the con is that it put's it out of my $$$$$ budget :(
I still remember when AMD was king with the A64. I also remember when the current high-end DESKTOP AMD CPU was $1,000.
 
MaddMutt said:
AGAIN..... I don't remember when or what web site I read the story. I had read that GF was on track/time with using FDSOI at 22nm. Somehow ......this FDSOI at 22nm is the same as FINFET at 14-16nm. I still hope for a CPU only version.

If this ZEN (or what ever they end up calling it) is close to Intel on Performance, I still would not be able to buy it.
It was just _______ when AMD came out with new GPU's. The re-branded 7970 (as the 280x) was very nice. I was able to pick up several 280x's at under $175. When AMD first released the R9 290x and it was faster than the NVidia 780 and the Titan. I love AMD and also the underdog BUT $1500 for ONE (1) video card.
The ZEN needs to be as close to or better than the Intel chip it's going against, the con is that it put's it out of my $$$$$ budget :(
I still remember when AMD was king with the A64. I also remember when the current high-end DESKTOP AMD CPU was $1,000.
Click to expand...


When was a 290x ever $1500?
 
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