Hm....kind of sounds like AMD doesn't have much up its sleeve to counteract Conroe....if there was some AMD technology on the horizon that would evenly match Core 2, Kyle would have likely heard whispers about it by now. I find this comment very insightful, and a little disappointing.Kyle said:
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AMD vs Intel article on front page
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MrGuvernment
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MrGuvernment
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true, and for intel possibly on 45nm as well.
intel will always be ahead of Amd in nm fabrication due to its huge resources and fab locations. AMD WILL take a huge beating with conroe, allot of you AMD campers are already awaiting conroe's release. But thats not to say AMD's K8L wont be a strong contender...though it cant show too big of a perf. increase, it sure will hold its ground, lets hope.
§kynet
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There is NO DOUBT that anyone coming up with a statement like that is either a major Intel !!!!!!, or someone who thinks they can see perfectly into the future.
It is the height of foolishness to think one can predict what is going to happen over the next 18 months, to put it mildly.
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§kynet said:
Well, lets see what happens in the next 18 months and if I am wrong, then you can call me foolish. But I would suggest that I probably have just a little bit better handle on what is happening over the next couple of years in the industry than you do. This is not exactly my first rodeo in the tech world and would consider myself very well plugged in to the information channels to make such predictions.
But as usual, it is just my opinion and I could certainly be wrong....although I am usually not. And I assure you that the comments you see posted are not off-the-cuff or not given any serious thought.
Slartibartfast
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...not to mention that accusing Kyle of being an "Intel !!!!!!" requires a pretty strong ignorance of his views and opinions over the past few years...
robberbaron
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nooh said:
Yeah seriously. Damn them and their... wait, what the fuck are you talking about?
$BangforThe$
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§kynet said:
To call Kyle an Intel fan-boy is a pretty big stretch of the trueth. For some reason you think AMD has a magic wond. It takes time to do this stuff and do it well.
$BangforThe$
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nooh said:
AMD didn't rip you off at all . You got what you paid for. The best Arch . available.
Intel can produce a cheaper chip because it has more fabs and its using 65nm tech.
You bought a good chip for your money. It couldn't last forever.
I still don't trust any of the Intel 590 info were are seeing trickle in... If Nvidia bombs on the new Intel chipset like I think is going to happen, then SLI users will have to use AM2. Obviously this is a small niche compared to the overall scheme of things, but this plus decreased costs of Am2 chips could very well allow AMD to hold onto their market share. Not to mention the Dell deal...
Yeah Athlon 64's have sucked balls for the past few years. We have been totally fooled.nooh said:
ROFLrobberbaron said:
It's not foolish to make educated predictions based upon years of extensive experience and inside knowledge of a veteran in a particular field (in this case, Kyle). The thing many people don't understand is, Kyle, Brent, Anand, and the other major players in the hardware world know a whole lot about a whole lot that they can't or won't tell us. They may have samples of unreleased AMD CPUs and Conroe CPUs sitting in their labs right now, for all we know, but NDA prevents them from spilling their guts. However, what Kyle and Brent have done in recent times (like this one, and I also think back to the highly anticipated R520 release) is make calculated comments like this one that share their insight on the state of affairs as they see them. You would be astute to pay attention when these guys share their thoughts. At the very least, somebody like Kyle has numerous contacts within the hardware world that he can rely upon to keep him updated on the pipeline of upcoming hardware. Unless a company completely baffles the entire hardware industry, it is very likely that somebody like Kyle has a good feeling for the tech we will see in the next 6-12 months. If AMD does have something up their sleeve that nobody can see coming, then you can be sure we will be reading reviews of this revolutionary product, complete with an editorial about how nobody could have possibly seen this coming.§kynet said:
§kynet
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Relax, no one is calling Kyle a *anboySlartibartfast said:
But 18 months is nearly a lifetime in the tech world. You have to assume many things to make the prediction that for 18 months AMD is going to be hurting both in market share and image.
Basically, one has to assume Intel will not stumble in any way, and will be able to produce Core in volume, and also assume that AMD will be unable to ramp up 65nm, will be unable to ship K8L on time, and also Socket 1207 will fall flat. And you have to assume that Dell will not start pushing boxes with AMD inside at all, or in any real volume.
You have to also assume that Intel will somehow be able to sell of their huge inventory of netburst stock without taking a major loss.
Menelmarar
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§kynet said:
Netburst and the Pentium 4's are old. I'm willing to bet Intel has already covered most R&D and manfuacturing costs. Alot of what they will be selling off after Conroe is released would be mostly profit no matter the price.
Tetrahedron
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Nobody, and I mean nobody can predict the future!
18 months is a long time for anything to happen... nuclear war could break out and end it all. Then what about AMD vs Intel?... nobody will care is what!
but I agree AMD does have a good challenge (upcoming) to overcome.
18 months is a long time for anything to happen... nuclear war could break out and end it all. Then what about AMD vs Intel?... nobody will care is what!
but I agree AMD does have a good challenge (upcoming) to overcome.
§kynet
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Production costs don't go away. Who is going to want netburst P4's after Conroe hits. Hell, no one wants them now. Intel made sure no one wants netburst anymore by announcing Conroe months and months before it is actually available.Menelmarar said:
By Intel's own estimates, Conroe will account for no more than 35% of shipments by the end of the year. So realistically, it will likely be less than 35%. So that leaves at least 65% of potentially sales derived from old stock. Stock that Intel says on their own slides is vastly inferior to their latest and greatest.
I have no doubt that Conroe is a major comeback product for Intel. But it is not going to save Intel overnight. And it is not going to put the hurt on AMD overnight either.
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Menelmarar said:
Your correct old inventory has been wrote off . But intel is still making P4D's and they are not as bad as some make them out. Intel themselves have said Their new processor is much superior. What else would they say? LOL. The actual numbers from intel were 40% by 07. But thats neither here nor there. Intel is coming with a new stepping for P4D's.
Said to put it in the 65 watt range. Thats pretty dam good. The speed of these coupled with their O/C abilities spells value to me. A 3.6 selling for $300 dollars is a pretty sweet deal. Maybe even cheaper come release day of Conroe . We will have to wait and see on that. Intel might really lower the hammer on these.
thunderstruck!
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You can run SLI perfectly on intel and ati chipsets using hacked drivers. It still runs the same as always.J-Mag said:
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Rocco123 said:
True that but we are talking $300vs $1000
thunderstruck! said:You can run SLI perfectly on intel and ati chipsets using hacked drivers. It still runs the same as always.
Yeah but being stuck with one driver set is irritating. The performance and bug improvements in new drivers could easily overshadow the benefit of having a faster proc.
I think its the words "NO DOUBT" which bring up questions, maybe saying something like it "It is almost certain", or "It is very likely", but either way it doesnt matter.
As for having tricks up their sleeves, for the longest time we didn't know what intel was doing while AMD was having fun with the a64, 18 months is a long prediction.
As for having tricks up their sleeves, for the longest time we didn't know what intel was doing while AMD was having fun with the a64, 18 months is a long prediction.
freeloader1969
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Intel won't even be on top for one year, nevermind eighteen months.
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freeloader1969 said:
If you read, that is not at what I said. I said they would be feeling the effects of negative press for 18 months.
AMD is hot right now and riding high. The next three quarters are going to move them back a couple of spaces in terms of branding and momentum and those are things that are not recouped easily.
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§kynet said:
Using the products that will be sold during that time.
We are also talking claims from a highly profitable multi-billion dollar company that has been in existence for years. A conspiracy theory is a bit far fetched here. Working ESs have already been tested by third part people, and unless they are flat out lying about their yields, it'll be out when they say they'll be out.
People will buy them because they are powerful, cheap and power efficient, and will continue to do so until AMD releases their K8L.
People will buy them because they are powerful, cheap and power efficient, and will continue to do so until AMD releases their K8L.
I can see where Kyle is coming from with his statement, and overall i tend to agree with him.
Intel has a good chance to make some good things happen for them. Looks like conroe will be a real monster.
Here is the thing that i think a lot of people are not taking into account. The semi bad press Intel has taken over the past year or two. It seems that most people would agree that the A64 was just top notch, and really boosted AMD into the mainstream
I was doing a build for someone maybe 3 months ago, he knows very very little of computers but made sure that i used AMD. He said he read they were better in gaming and were not going to turn his room into a sauna. If pretty much the average person feels as though something is better, why would they suddenly choose to go back to the company that had been getting beat for a while?
i think it might take Intel a bit longer to recover than many people think.
Intel has a good chance to make some good things happen for them. Looks like conroe will be a real monster.
Here is the thing that i think a lot of people are not taking into account. The semi bad press Intel has taken over the past year or two. It seems that most people would agree that the A64 was just top notch, and really boosted AMD into the mainstream
I was doing a build for someone maybe 3 months ago, he knows very very little of computers but made sure that i used AMD. He said he read they were better in gaming and were not going to turn his room into a sauna. If pretty much the average person feels as though something is better, why would they suddenly choose to go back to the company that had been getting beat for a while?
i think it might take Intel a bit longer to recover than many people think.
Well, their bad image is going to take awhile to recover. Everyone will remember how they never took AMD seriously and thought they could sit on the same bad CPU for years. It will remind everyone what will happen if they truly do not have competition.
apHytHiaTe
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Jesus jumping Christ.
In Kyle's defense, the main thing here is Intel put its money into an Athlon64 killer, which is what they have. You have to be on crack to think that Conroe won't totally slay anything and everything AMD has to offer. That's what Kyle is saying, in my interpretation.
For you skynet, why would an Intel F-boy use an AMD chip in his rig for so long and love the shit out of it? I just can't help but think that you are an AMD F-boy, Sky. I am as well, to a degree, but why can't we accept reality. Conroe and its successors will wipe the floor with AMD.
Don't rag on him for saying "products that will be sold" we have the benchmarks for the first of those products. If Intel doesn't spill coffee on all their keyboards and lose all its schematics, the products to follow Conroe will beat its AMD opponent violently too.
That's all I have to say.
In Kyle's defense, the main thing here is Intel put its money into an Athlon64 killer, which is what they have. You have to be on crack to think that Conroe won't totally slay anything and everything AMD has to offer. That's what Kyle is saying, in my interpretation.
For you skynet, why would an Intel F-boy use an AMD chip in his rig for so long and love the shit out of it? I just can't help but think that you are an AMD F-boy, Sky. I am as well, to a degree, but why can't we accept reality. Conroe and its successors will wipe the floor with AMD.
Don't rag on him for saying "products that will be sold" we have the benchmarks for the first of those products. If Intel doesn't spill coffee on all their keyboards and lose all its schematics, the products to follow Conroe will beat its AMD opponent violently too.
That's all I have to say.
freeloader1969
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I read what you said and I'm telling you that AMD will not feel any negative press effects from Intel's new chips for more than one year. They've built momentum and a name for themselves in corporate circles. Heck, our city hall even uses Opteron's now and they were a devote "Intel only" shop for as long as I could remember. This has translated to corporate desktop sales as well. It's not likely that they'll lose that much share to Intel the way Intel has lost share to AMD in the last few years!
The press is the press. Take them for what they are...
The press is the press. Take them for what they are...
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freeloader1969 said:
And what exactly are your qualifications to make statements such as this? We too have an AMD-only server farm now, but that hardly dictates what will happen over the next 2 years or 6 months. Data centers pay real money for power and cooling and if there is a solution with better performance, and takes less energy to run and cool, you had best bet that you will see the AMD market erode. Just remember that loyalty to a manufacturer in the tech business will soon just land you an inferior product. Don't be blinded by it.
I am not an Intel fan-boy or an AMD fan-boy...I am just a CPU fan-boy. And I will use the product then suggest to our readers which one we find best.
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§kynet said:
Would you rather me tell you that we base our opinions on rumor? We work directly with Intel and AMD and a lot of the people that work with them. I assure you that we have a very good handle on what is happening in the market place. If hands on experience and industry intelligence are not good enough for you, then I suggest you need to go read something like the Inq.
freeloader1969
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And what are your qualifications to make such a statement? You run a website. You don't work for Intel or AMD and god only knows what line of PR they're giving to you. Probably the same line(s) my HP guy gives me! If I was a car dealer tyring to sell you a Ford or a Lincoln, I'd tell you whatever you wanted to hear to sell you the Lincoln!
How often do you upgrade your servers? Intel is just matching AMD now on power consumption. I know all about power consumption in data centers. I've run everything from mainframes to clusters! Intel will do well for itself in the next year, but I don't think we'll be seeing negative press for over 12 months.
Anyhow Kyle, why don't we see how things are in one year from official launch?