AMD Threadripper 3970X Successor

Circumnavigate

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
190
Hey guys I am looking to build a new work computer some time in the coming months for professional art. I am using this computer for computer game art programs such as Maya, KeyShot, Z Brush, Photoshop etc....

It looks like the 3970X is currently the best CPU I could get for this build, I was wondering does anyone know how much longer I would have to wait to purchase the successor to the 3970X ??

I think that the new generation of AMD chips are supposed to be coming out in the coming months but I was not sure if those are gaming CPUs only or if they also include work CPUs?

Thanks for the help.
 

zandor

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
3,328
The new generation AMD desktop chips came out on Thursday, November 5 (the day you started this thread) and more or less sold out quickly. Gamers probably bought most of them, but really they're just normal desktop CPUs. If you decide to cheap out and get a desktop chip instead of a Threadripper the new Ryzen 9 5950X 16-core would be the one to go for, but with a Threadripper budget and workload I wouldn't bother looking at them. As for the next batch of Threadrippers I haven't seen anything but I'd expect them to launch sometime next year, probably in the first half. That's just wild speculation though.
 

tived

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
103
The Threadripper pro is out or just about to, but only for OEM builders

there is currently little need for AMD to push out a new generation of processors till Intel or ARM present their next offer!

so my guess is one to two years before you will hold one in your hands

good luck

Henrik
 

tunatime

Well...OK
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
4,141
The Threadripper pro is out or just about to, but only for OEM builders

there is currently little need for AMD to push out a new generation of processors till Intel or ARM present their next offer!

so my guess is one to two years before you will hold one in your hands

good luck

Henrik
Lmao it will be out next year tr is a good margin part for amd
 

thesmokingman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
6,394
The crazy thing is that Epyc Milan is already sold out before release with so many supercomputers lined up for thousand of chips with Frontier, El Capitan, Anvil among others.
 

Iratus

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Messages
1,517
I don't think it will be till next year, but channel is getting pretty empty of the current gen ones. Guess they're just using the capacity elsewhere.
 

tived

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
103
If performance is your ultimate goal, you’ll be happy to learn that AMD is expected to debut its Threadripper 4000 processor, which goes by the code name Genesis Peak SP3r3, later this year. Threadripper 4000 will likely be based on an enhanced 7nm+ process, making its design similar to the Ryzen 4000 Vermeer release.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-ryzen-radeon-roadmap/

have any of you seen the Threadripper 4000? It’s November 2020 it is very unlikely coming this year!
 

tived

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
103
We have just received a tip from our source that upcoming (Rumored) AMD Ryzen Threadripper 5000 series will be coming in the early 2021. Similar as Ryzen 3000 series threadripper, SKUs will be Ryzen Threadripper 5990X, Ryzen Threadripper 5980X, Ryzen Threadripper 5970X, Ryzen Threadripper 5960X.

Rumored specs of Ryzen Threadripper 5990X:

  • 64 Cores
  • 128 threads
  • Zen 3
  • 7nm
  • TDP: 280W
Stay tuned for more info.

https://www.cpu-rumors.com/amd-ryzen-threadripper-5990x-5980x-5970x-5960x-coming-in-early-2021/

and a bit more info here

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-2020-2022-cpu-apu-roadmap-leak-zen-2-3-4-families-unveiled/
 

/dev/null

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 31, 2001
Messages
15,078
Nobody mentioned it, but there is also the 3990x which is above the 3970x...3990x is 64 cores vs 32 in the 3970x
 

KazeoHin

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
8,242
I'm pretty sure AMD will only continue Threadripper CPUs in the form of Threadripper Pro. Every TR chip they sell is a potential TR Pro or Epyc customer lost. Notice with TR Pro, you can't buy them, you can only buy the whole system (costing literally tens of thousands). They're also locked: no overclocking. They don't fit in TRX-40 motherboards, either. They are 100% surgically separate from Epyc and Standard TR chips. They're basically higher-clocked, lower efficiency, single-socket only Epyc chips. If they were available to buyers directly, they would compete with Epyc chips.

Normal "Traditional" TRs don't support RDIMMs, ECC, and are only quad channel. TR Pros support all of this.

AMD is in the position where they have a limited number of chips, and they have a demand that outstrips their supply. Why sell 4 chiplets and an IO-die as a TR when you could sell the same thing as a higher-margin Epyc chip or TR Pro?

Literally EVERY PRODUCT THEY MANUFACTURE flies off the shelves. So they can choose to sell them for whatever price, assuming they put the correct product name on it. When you can print money, you start printing bigger bills.
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
30,430
Waste of money, none of the current art programs I use utilize 64 cores but rather 32.
You assume people only run art programs on TR. I run a giant pile of VMs, encoding/transcoding, a couple of storage workloads, and a workstation doing normal tasks all at the same time. I could easily use all 64 cores if I had them - I've got a 3960X instead, as I don't have issues with CPU contention most of the time on my threaded workloads.
I'm pretty sure AMD will only continue Threadripper CPUs in the form of Threadripper Pro. Every TR chip they sell is a potential TR Pro or Epyc customer lost. Notice with TR Pro, you can't buy them, you can only buy the whole system (costing literally tens of thousands). They're also locked: no overclocking. They don't fit in TRX-40 motherboards, either. They are 100% surgically separate from Epyc and Standard TR chips. They're basically higher-clocked, lower efficiency, single-socket only Epyc chips. If they were available to buyers directly, they would compete with Epyc chips.

Normal "Traditional" TRs don't support RDIMMs, ECC, and are only quad channel. TR Pros support all of this.

AMD is in the position where they have a limited number of chips, and they have a demand that outstrips their supply. Why sell 4 chiplets and an IO-die as a TR when you could sell the same thing as a higher-margin Epyc chip or TR Pro?

Literally EVERY PRODUCT THEY MANUFACTURE flies off the shelves. So they can choose to sell them for whatever price, assuming they put the correct product name on it. When you can print money, you start printing bigger bills.
Two slightly different markets with overlap. Lots of folks who buy TR (like me) who wouldn't buy TR Pro (because I have to buy a pre-built, for one thing, and most of them aren't building for my use case), and Epyc isn't something I particularly care about either (compatibility with the workstation parts I run). I need PCIE lanes, quad channel ram is a plus, and more than 16 cores - but I don't need RDIMMs with their lower performance, nor do I want ECC, and I don't want the cost of Epyc or TRPro either.

Parts give you options and flexibility - There are actually 4 different markets here, just with overlap. There was justification to enter all 4 markets (I'm ignoring laptops and low-power APUs), I don't see any reason that would change at the moment, unless TR sales fall significantly due to 5950x sales and/or the drop-off in revenue for gaming people buying HEDT is significant enough to reduce the value.

We also don't know the true variable cost / opportunity cost (complexity, yields, etc) across TR/TRPro/Epyc to really know what the margins are between them, or how they get planned. The financial analysts and AMD sure do though. And Intel agreed, which is why you can get Intel HEDT chips, TRPro equivalent (W-class Xeons), and Xeon Scalable - all up to what you need. Conceding any of those markets is a bad idea - because your competitor will promptly go into that market to try and exploit it.
 

LukeTbk

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
392
You assume people only run art programs on TR. I run a giant pile of VMs, encoding/transcoding, a couple of storage workloads, and a workstation doing normal tasks all at the same time. I could easily use all 64 cores if I had them - I've got a 3960X instead, as I don't have issues with CPU contention most of the time on my threaded workloads.
Why are you saying that he is saying none of is art program do, he is not implying anything about what other people do on TR.

The thread is about him replacing is threadripper and explaining why he is not looking at TR with over 32 cores.

Says more about your workload than knowing how to run one of these.
It says only about is workload (why would he care about anything else, and why anything else will make a cpu a waste of money or not for him).
 

thesmokingman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
6,394
I'm pretty sure AMD will only continue Threadripper CPUs in the form of Threadripper Pro. Every TR chip they sell is a potential TR Pro or Epyc customer lost. Notice with TR Pro, you can't buy them, you can only buy the whole system (costing literally tens of thousands). They're also locked: no overclocking. They don't fit in TRX-40 motherboards, either. They are 100% surgically separate from Epyc and Standard TR chips. They're basically higher-clocked, lower efficiency, single-socket only Epyc chips. If they were available to buyers directly, they would compete with Epyc chips.

Normal "Traditional" TRs don't support RDIMMs, ECC, and are only quad channel. TR Pros support all of this.

AMD is in the position where they have a limited number of chips, and they have a demand that outstrips their supply. Why sell 4 chiplets and an IO-die as a TR when you could sell the same thing as a higher-margin Epyc chip or TR Pro?

Literally EVERY PRODUCT THEY MANUFACTURE flies off the shelves. So they can choose to sell them for whatever price, assuming they put the correct product name on it. When you can print money, you start printing bigger bills.

To be fair though, TR PRO's are basically specially binned Epycs for clockspeed.
 

thesmokingman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
6,394
It says only about is workload (why would he care about anything else, and why anything else will make a cpu a waste of money or not for him).

Why you responding for him? Do you even own one of these????

I do. I know the exact fkn workloads. The reason 99% of purchases end up with a 32 core or less is for the single thread performance. In most produiction apps, the assembly stage is heavily single threaded so they make an executive decision to make a compromise for this. :rolleyes:

I should also add that one can unlock the 3990x if one had the appropriate cooling to raise its single core boost to the same level as the 3970x or past it and raise all core frequency at the same time. However institutions are not into overclocking and all that. Thus this cpu sits there idling on shelves.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: tived
like this

LukeTbk

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
392
Why you responding for him? Do you even own one of these????

I do. I know the exact fkn workloads. The reason 99% of purchases end up with a 32 core or less is for the single thread performance. In most produiction apps, the assembly stage is heavily single threaded so they make an executive decision to make a compromise for this. :rolleyes:
Well if the person is lying about the fact that for is project he is working on for the version of the program's he is using that they do not scale well over 32 cores that one thing (is that really hard to check ?)

But reading a flow of conversation like that:

A: I want to change my TR 3770, what should I pick next.
B: You could look at the 64 core version already available that fit your socket for a shift
A: That would be a waste of money for my workload, the apps I use do not scale well over 32 core
C quoting : You are assuming what people do with their threadripper/that tell us more about your workload

That sound strange has a reaction, if they are way that need require knowledge to scale well over the 32 core for any projects on those there is a polite way to point that to someone instead of such reaction.
 
Last edited:

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
30,430
Why are you saying that he is saying none of is art program do, he is not implying anything about what other people do on TR.

The thread is about him replacing is threadripper and explaining why he is not looking at TR with over 32 cores.


It says only about is workload (why would he care about anything else, and why anything else will make a cpu a waste of money or not for him).
Because it's a discussion thread and I was making a point, and I missed that he was the OP responding to his own thread. The way it was phrased, it sounded like he was saying any TR over the 32 core mark was a waste. My apologies.
To be fair though, TR PRO's are basically specially binned Epycs for clockspeed.
And minus the cross-socket stuff to help cut down the amount generating heat, to help reach that clock speed. :)
 

Circumnavigate

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
190
Says more about your workload than knowing how to run one of these.
Yes that's true I don't know what I'm doing, that is why I'm here. When I was researching work station computers for artists people on Reddit were saying that Maya, Z Brush and KeyShot don't currently have the ability to utilize 64 cores, is that not the case?


Also on Tom's Hardware they recommend going for the 32 cores and not 64;

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-performance-cpus,5683.html
 
Last edited:

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
30,430
So wait you guys are saying I would be better of getting an Epyc Mylan chip instead of a ThreadRipper? How come Toms Hardware says to go for the ThreadRipper with no mention of the Epyc server chips?

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-performance-cpus,5683.html
Because buying Epyc server chips is non trivial. Boards are more complex and more expensive, compatibility is limited and harder to match, coolers aren’t as easy to find - they’re server boards. Designed to go into a datacenter most of the time; no shits given about cooling/noise/power consumption. Or working with normal parts you’d see in a workstation
 

thesmokingman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
6,394

thesmokingman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
6,394

sram

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
1,361
It will be very nice if the new threadrippers come early 2021. I'm also waiting for them. I considered the 3970x but if the successor is near then I better wait.
 

cpufrost

n00b
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
6
Happy with my 3970X performance and temps. It's living under a German made solid copper Watercool block that I've been using since the original 1950X came out.
I did test a 3990X and wanted to keep it, however the OS issues with NUMA (showing dual sockets with two 32 core CPU installed) was hindering performance. Tried all OS variants including Intel Clear Linux Project too.
Performance wasn't bad, mind you but not exactly $4k good either! ;) And when power limits were raised to allow fully loaded 4.2GHz across the board, you definitely need lots of radiator area or a supply of chilled water (I have both) as the amount of power this part can use is rather scary. Also 256GB RAM seems a bit stingy for 64 cores. IMHO if I *needed* that many I'd probably be using Epyc anyhow. Just turned up a 7502P VMHOST today and it's quite nice TBH.

I must say things haven't been this exciting for AMD since the Athlon 64 days!
 

sram

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
1,361
Happy with my 3970X performance and temps. It's living under a German made solid copper Watercool block that I've been using since the original 1950X came out.
I did test a 3990X and wanted to keep it, however the OS issues with NUMA (showing dual sockets with two 32 core CPU installed) was hindering performance. Tried all OS variants including Intel Clear Linux Project too.
Performance wasn't bad, mind you but not exactly $4k good either! ;) And when power limits were raised to allow fully loaded 4.2GHz across the board, you definitely need lots of radiator area or a supply of chilled water (I have both) as the amount of power this part can use is rather scary. Also 256GB RAM seems a bit stingy for 64 cores. IMHO if I *needed* that many I'd probably be using Epyc anyhow. Just turned up a 7502P VMHOST today and it's quite nice TBH.

I must say things haven't been this exciting for AMD since the Athlon 64 days!

I have got a question for you. From my reading, I remember that the 3990x should no issues with windows pro for workstations or enterprise so I wonder why you had issues. I sometimes think I should get the 3990x just for the heck of it and get an appropriate version of windows, but now with what you are saying I don't think I will get it. I also take it that 3990x will be harder to overclock considering your comments on power usage. I'm waiting for zen 3 threadrippers anyway.

Can you please give the full specs of your box? I'm interested in knowing your RAM and mobo!

Thanks.
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
30,430
I have got a question for you. From my reading, I remember that the 3990x should no issues with windows pro for workstations or enterprise so I wonder why you had issues. I sometimes think I should get the 3990x just for the heck of it and get an appropriate version of windows, but now with what you are saying I don't think I will get it. I also take it that 3990x will be harder to overclock considering your comments on power usage. I'm waiting for zen 3 threadrippers anyway.

Can you please give the full specs of your box? I'm interested in knowing your RAM and mobo!

Thanks.
Applications and OS need to be NUMA aware for things to work totally sanely on something with that many cores. Most things won't care enough, big things might - depends on how they were coded.
 

thesmokingman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
6,394

cpufrost

n00b
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
6
I have got a question for you. From my reading, I remember that the 3990x should no issues with windows pro for workstations or enterprise so I wonder why you had issues. I sometimes think I should get the 3990x just for the heck of it and get an appropriate version of windows, but now with what you are saying I don't think I will get it. I also take it that 3990x will be harder to overclock considering your comments on power usage. I'm waiting for zen 3 threadrippers anyway.

Can you please give the full specs of your box? I'm interested in knowing your RAM and mobo!

Thanks.

Windows 10 Enterprise as well as Windows Server 2019 Enterprise was used with same results.
Using Asus Zenith II Alpha with 1101 BIOS
Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4-3200 (8) 32GB pieces at 3200MHz 15-15-15-15-34-1T stable. Current limit @1200A. Full load rendering all cores approx 4.18GHz average in HW Monitor for 16 hours or so. EVGA T2 1600W Titanium PSU (Superflower). I have several GPUs, currently using Radeon VII with 3070X. Was using Quadro RTX 8000. Pair of 1.5TB 905Ps for fast access local storage. Only the CPU is liquid cooled. VRM temps on this board are quite reasonable, the rather noisy fans are choked back as much as possible in BIOS so they aren't noticeable until VRM temps exceed 95C and I never heard them coming on! The system is open bench with a fan blowing across the board to keep everything happy and room temp is in the low to mid 60s this time of the year so that probably plays a factor.

Unless you really have high loads, the 3970X is going to be better value AND it does have better IPC.
It will be interesting to see the improvements on the next gen TR chips for sure! This has been quite exciting coming from Xeons both on workstations and servers alike.
 

sram

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
1,361
If you're thinking about getting a 3990x just for kicks... I don't think you really comprehend how much of a beast this cpu is.

AMD Threadripper 3990X: How I set 10 Overclocking Records | Tom's Hardware

I actually know. I probably didn't make it clear but the box I'm building will actually be for bragging rights and to show off (I'm an enthusiastic) + some virtualization work ( I tend to run about 10-15 VMs ) in Vmware and virtualbox and they eat up resources very quickly. I know the 3990x is a monster of a CPU. I read many benchmarks but the issue with windows and the price kinda of fueled me into thinking more about the 3970x. I thought I will never be able to fully utilize 64 cores all the time plus saving 2000 USD is nice. I also read somewhere that it is harder to overclock like cpufrost said. Additionally, I thought single threaded performance will actually be better with the 3970x because of the higher boost frequency. Anyways I'll be waiting for zen 3 threadrippers and see. Hopefully they are coming soon.

This is my reddit thread if you are interested:

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/jmsn8u/new_extreme_build_based_on_amd_threadripper_3970x/
 
Last edited:

sram

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
1,361
Windows 10 Enterprise as well as Windows Server 2019 Enterprise was used with same results.
Using Asus Zenith II Alpha with 1101 BIOS
Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4-3200 (8) 32GB pieces at 3200MHz 15-15-15-15-34-1T stable. Current limit @1200A. Full load rendering all cores approx 4.18GHz average in HW Monitor for 16 hours or so. EVGA T2 1600W Titanium PSU (Superflower). I have several GPUs, currently using Radeon VII with 3070X. Was using Quadro RTX 8000. Pair of 1.5TB 905Ps for fast access local storage. Only the CPU is liquid cooled. VRM temps on this board are quite reasonable, the rather noisy fans are choked back as much as possible in BIOS so they aren't noticeable until VRM temps exceed 95C and I never heard them coming on! The system is open bench with a fan blowing across the board to keep everything happy and room temp is in the low to mid 60s this time of the year so that probably plays a factor.

Unless you really have high loads, the 3970X is going to be better value AND it does have better IPC.
It will be interesting to see the improvements on the next gen TR chips for sure! This has been quite exciting coming from Xeons both on workstations and servers alike.

Thanks buddy. Tight timings for your RAM. I want to get 128 GB of 3600 MHz RAM with the lowest cas latency I can find.
 

KazeoHin

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
8,242
Threadripper parts have always been workstation-only parts... with the 3000 series, they were more than capable of playing games at high framerates, but ultimately the i9s were the best for gaming, not just for price but for overall performance.

But now, IF new threadrippers come out, they will most likely be the best at EVERYTHING. gaming, rendering, decompression, Adobe...

That's something we have not seen for a very long time. A single chip that is literally the best at everything.




And our friends at AMD will charge a LOT for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sram
like this

sram

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
1,361
Threadripper parts have always been workstation-only parts... with the 3000 series, they were more than capable of playing games at high framerates, but ultimately the i9s were the best for gaming, not just for price but for overall performance.

But now, IF new threadrippers come out, they will most likely be the best at EVERYTHING. gaming, rendering, decompression, Adobe...

That's something we have not seen for a very long time. A single chip that is literally the best at everything.




And our friends at AMD will charge a LOT for it.
If it kicks ass, I will be willing to pay for it. Come new threadrippers...
 

thesmokingman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
6,394
I actually know. I probably didn't make it clear but the box I'm building will actually be for bragging rights and to show off (I'm an enthusiastic) + some virtualization work ( I tend to run about 10-15 VMs ) in Vmware and virtualbox and they eat up resources very quickly. I know the 3990x is a monster of a CPU. I read many benchmarks but the issue with windows and the price kinda of fueled me into thinking more about the 3970x. I thought I will never be able to fully utilize 64 cores all the time plus saving 2000 USD is nice. I also read somewhere that it is harder to overclock like cpufrost. Additionally, I thought single threaded performance will actually be better with the 3970x because of the higher boost frequency. Anyways I'll be waiting for zen 3 threadrippers and see. Hopefully they are coming soon.

This is my reddit thread if you are interested:

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/jmsn8u/new_extreme_build_based_on_amd_threadripper_3970x/

They're not that hard to cool, you just need a lot of cooling especially if you are going to raise the TDP limits. The 3990x is incredibly neutered by the TDP limit btw. Hell for 64 cores it's got the same limit as the 24 and 32 cores. This is very important as it limits everything about the cpu from single core boost to all core frequency. PPL often think that each of the Zen based cpu has unique IPC due to their model number but they are not. These are built cookie cutter style so from a batch of binned epyc parts which also came from the same wafers as the Ryzen line. It's like all the same. Thus the 3990x is fully capable the same single thread IPC if you have the cooling to support it. Btw, the new threadrippers won't be out for a while. I guesstimate Q2 2021 at the earliest. AMD is getting EPyc ready for release for Q4 or Q1 2021. Threadrippers will come after that.

If you look at the hwbot records, you'll see more than a couple of 3990x overclocked pretty darn far on just water. I've seen guys run 4.3ghz all core at a paltry 1.36v.

https://hwbot.org/benchmark/cinebench_-_r20/rankings?cores=64#start=0#interval=20


Here's my build below with cpu limited to 350w.

https://hardforum.com/threads/build-3970x-dual-2080ti-8tb-m-2-raid-render-monster.1990145/
 
Top