AMD Ryzen 9 3000 is a 16-core Socket AM4 Beast

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by sknight, May 10, 2019.

  1. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,082
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    This is something that can at best be speculated about. It's not cause for concern unless initial reviews and user experience reports show that motherboard manufacturers have neglected the chipsets operating needs.
     
  2. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    11,065
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Not really, a 4 core 8 thread machine would now be a 4 core 4 thread machine and a lot slower at that point.
     
    Darth Kyrie and Pieter3dnow like this.
  3. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    11,065
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    From what I can tell, this is all based on a picture of a board from Biostar, right?
     
    N4CR and jfreund like this.
  4. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,082
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    For certain tasks, absolutely- but it'd still be faster than anything else released at the time, and it'd still be fast. The 7600Ks (~4.5GHz 4C4T) I use in my fileserver and Linux desktop are still extremely fast at any task I throw at them, and are faster than, for example, an AMD FX 8350.

    Remember that hyperthreading, while extremely useful for getting the most out of a CPU, does not make a processor 'a lot faster', and the lack of it doesn't make a processor 'a lot slower'. You're not getting any more cores and you're not getting any more FPUs or SIMD units, and most of the utility of SMT is found in keeping lighter threads from forcing context changes that can disrupt real-time operations, as seen in frametime plots for demanding games.
     
  5. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,770
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    colorful.

    CVN-X570AK-Gaming-Pro-Motherboard-1.png

    great looking cooler for m.2 though.

    and heres the asus without active cooling

    ASUS-ROG-Crosshair-VIII-Formula_ASUS-X570-Motherboards-AMD-Ryzen-3000.png
     
  6. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,516
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    It seems reasonable that if you want to OC 16 cores, it's going to pull more juice than a Ryzen 2700x with 8 cores, though I don't know why that would effect the chipset. I would expect more cooling on the VRMs.
     
  7. mda

    mda [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,655
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Does PCIE4 really draw that much power? TR4 boards didn't have any fan...
     
  8. vegeta535

    vegeta535 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,347
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2013
    Should be fine if using cheaper cpu. You don't buy cheap boards ever expecting to push higher end CPU over clocks.
     
  9. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

    Messages:
    21,587
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    from everything i've seen and read it's very specific use cases where high temps are a problem and why the fans there.. my guess is it's related to the whether or not some ones running raid 0 NVME drives and/or if the pcie controller is under full load. i wouldn't be surprised if we see fans on intel's implementation when they add PCIe 4.0 as well considering how many more lanes they add to their chipset to compensate for the lack of direct cpu PCIe lanes.
     
  10. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,770
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    He's talking about the "South bridge"
    And it seems he has no idea what he's talking about.
    It has nothing to do with overclocking
     
  11. Rockenrooster

    Rockenrooster Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    402
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2017
    SMT makes a big difference for some people...me Included. The people that are going to be patching for these new vulerabilities are the ones that need SMT/HT (enterprise market)......
    For people like you/us we could probably care less about these patches....But are we the market with the big money? Most likely not...

    For such a cheap CPU, I think the 8350 aged pretty well lol...(I have a 8320e OC'ed to 8350 speeds) I f you don't take into account power usage i guess or single threaded perf.
     
  12. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,726
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Any leaked images of Gigabyte boards?
     
  13. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

    Messages:
    2,550
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Ironic answer considering AMD used CCX and multidie approach for Zen desktop with all the latency issues we know.
     
    ZeroBarrier likes this.
  14. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

    Messages:
    2,550
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017

    And people can upgrade to recentest Intel chips. :)
     
  15. cyklondx

    cyklondx Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    320
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2018
    I would prefer for ryzen to have only a single chiplet, and stay as 8 core part.
    Confession-Bear.jpg
     
  16. Rockenrooster

    Rockenrooster Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    402
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2017
    eff you then lol......
    jk
     
  17. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,279
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    There is still that possibility for the low-core versions. We'll have to wait and see.
     
  18. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    11,065
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Yep, like the 2700X and beyond, which does not receive the Intel security bugs. :)

    Edit: Whether you or Intel admit or not, this is a big deal and they are screwed. Oh well, it is just customers that are losing out, not like Intel is worried about it.

    I bet Kyle is telling them to own up and take it like a man. (Seems if he did, they are not listening to him.)
     
  19. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,516
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    It's not a possibility, it's guaranteed, the single chiplet version is what was demoed, and PCB was single chiplet was shown.

    Single chiplet 6 and 8 cores (maybe 4), and dual chiplet 12 and 16 core.
     
  20. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,279
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    I would say very likely, but we don't know what configurations. They may not have an 8c with a single chiplet, for instance.
     
  21. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,516
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    I would bet you any amount of money that the 8core will only be single chiplet.
     
    Darth Kyrie likes this.
  22. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,279
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    I always lose my bets, but I'd wager a pb&j sandwich that there's a whiskers' chance you're wrong.
     
    Darth Kyrie likes this.
  23. ccityinstaller

    ccityinstaller [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,233
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007

    Interesting... Although if that Asus plate on the back of the Mobo pcb is connected to the Southbridge HS, then that is a Lot of surface area. You would most likely not need the fan at that point.
     
  24. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,516
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
  25. Azrak

    Azrak Gawd

    Messages:
    847
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    The only thing that could prevent 8 core CPUs from being made from two chiplets would be the additional latency and cache misses related to having two chiplets vs only one. You can't market both under the same SKU without raising eyebrows.
    Unless AMD makes two or more SKUs for 8 core CPUs where it is clear that one SKU has one chiplet with 8 cores and the other SKU has two chiplets with 4 cores each (or 1:7, 2:6, 3:5), there would be much gnashing of teeth from the community regarding performance differences between the two-chiplet and one-chiplet designs. Not only would it be silicon lottery, but chiplet lottery. "Hey I got a 8 core with 1 chiplet, what did you get?" "Oh I got a two chiplet version with 4 cores each. It's slower than yours." Can you imagine the benchmarking and resellers market that would create for "best 8 core CPUs with 1 chiplet"? No thanks. Keep all 8 core CPUs as a single chiplet.
     
  26. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,516
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    You list multiple reasons why it won't happen.

    The only significant argument in favor of dual chiplet 8C, is absolutely horrendous yield. It would be AMDs worse nightmare. I really can't imagine them starting production until test yields are at a level that would preclude them making this kind of desperation play.
     
    Azrak likes this.
  27. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,789
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    They can but will they :) . It seems that you can patch all you want until another variation is found that exploits it a little different then others and it starts al over.

    If anything 2019 is the year that people should not even have Intel on their mind when purchasing a new cpu. Since there is no from scratch architecture that does not take short cuts which by now should be the alarm bell for anyone when buying Intel.

    AMD is a far superior solution on security issues or should I say lack there of.
     
    Darth Kyrie likes this.
  28. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,734
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2014
    Well that answers that, AMD published a new roadmap and Ryzen 3 has been pushed back to Q3 of 2019 so... that means September at this rate, I'll have to see if I can hold off the purchasing for that long but I doubt it.
     
  29. LightsOut41

    LightsOut41 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    446
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2017
    Q3 begins July 1st.
     
    Darth Kyrie and Lakados like this.
  30. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,734
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2014
    Yeah but if the were going to go for July 1'st they would launch on June 30'th so they could say Q2 as that would be far more impressive for the shareholders, they fact they are now saying Q3 means it will be later in the set, and sites are reporting that they are lining their launch with the back to school stuff so its going to be a while.
     
  31. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    17,929
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    June 30th is a Sunday. Also, back-to-school stuff generally starts late July to early August (maybe even earlier).
     
  32. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,516
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Most actual school related, back to schools sales aren't going to be gaming PCs, but laptops, which aren't really affected by these parts.
     
    Flogger23m and drescherjm like this.
  33. kamikazi

    kamikazi Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    346
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Whenever I'm in the market, nothing comes out on time, nothing. I've been waiting a year for this one. Doh!
     
  34. byusinger84

    byusinger84 Gawd

    Messages:
    785
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    There was speculation they are shooting for a 7/7/19 launch date, to further push the 7nm thing. However, that's also a Sunday so...doubtful.
     
  35. kamikazi

    kamikazi Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    346
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    I don't really need an upgrade per se and I really don't have the time, but I've been looking forward to building something new. The most current CPU in my house is a low power variant Ivy Bridge processor in my pfsense box.
     
  36. Design1stcode2nd

    Design1stcode2nd Gawd

    Messages:
    704
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Rumor is the chipset fan is because of PCIE 4.0 NVME SSD in RAID heat. Your average builder will probably not need it but as a board maker you don't know what they will do so you add the fan.
     
  37. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,969
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    >muh latency
    You have been running around screaming this with idiotincharge quite a lot lately and no one has called you out on it for a while. Probably was me last time months back..
    latency_pingtimes_0.png
    Reality is for a vast majority of workloads, AMD has lower latency than anything from Intel even barely the 7700k, even the TR spanks their higher core parts at under 8 threads. So latency obviously isn't an issue that you make it out to be constantly. It's down to clockspeed and Intels leaky speculative scheduler which just lost them over 16 percent performance. Can't wait till you start posting old, pre-patch benchmarks in future, and I'll be checking.
    And before you 'muh memaray', they're all on equal standing for this benchmark.
     
    ccityinstaller and schmide like this.
  38. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,969
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Ugh, I hate tiny fans. Loud, useless and wear out really quickly. Looks like it'll be the first thing I mod.. decent passive sink on it and two 18dba sleeve bearing 180mm case fans will take care of it.
     
  39. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

    Messages:
    2,550
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Under 8 threads means within a CCX. The latency issues I mentioned are for CCX-CCX communication within the same die or for die to die communication. if you check the TR numbers, communicating between two dies has similar latency than communicating a Xeon with other Xeon on a dual socket system!
     
  40. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,082
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003

    ...did you look at the screenshot you posted (absent a link, might I add)? Now AMD is putting the memory controller off-die..?

    We can't say that AMD won't be able to address the potential issues here, or how they do if they do, but it's very clear that core-to-core latency is a weakness of their technology (which your post supports) and it's something that will require scrutiney on Ryzen 3 parts with multiple CPU dies.
     
Tags: