![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
AMD Radeon HD 7870 and 7850 Video Card Review @ [H]
- Thread starter FrgMstr
- Start date
MavericK
Zero Cool
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 31,901
If the 7870 is on par with the 6950, then no, not really.
I would consider picking up a used unlocked 6950 2 GB card if you need more VRAM.
Good review,yes Amd is milking for what its worth. Any chance of seeing an 6970x2 vs the new 7000 series for price entry. With the 7000 stealing the show the 6900 should be dieing a quick death and reselling much cheaper.
The thing is, the pricing is causing the 7000 series to not really "steal the show" when you can pick up a comparable 6000 series product for $50-100 less.
Flyinfinni
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2009
- Messages
- 1,300
I think you are mistaken. The only way that we'd be seeing MIRs on these cards right now is if people were to stop buying them. Review site awards or poor reviews would have little effect. Ultimately, unless demand falls off at current prices (which it probably won't until Kepler is released) it doesn't matter what reviews say.
7870 isn't really "on par" with a 6950. It's pretty significantly faster. Actually, from other reviews that actually tested the 7850 against the 6950, the 7850 compares rather well to the 6950. 7870 > 6970 >7850 > 6950 as far as I can tell.
So you want 6870 prices for the 7870 because the names are similar even though it has the same performance as the 6970? I'm not quite following your logic? The 6970's are $350ish as well...WTF?
MavericK
Zero Cool
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 31,901
What do you think creates that demand, though? My guess is that most anyone who is going to buy these cards did the research online about them first. If all the reviews said "these are overpriced, do not buy" I bet it would have significantly affected sales.
From reviews its more on par with the 6970. HOCP's review reached the same conclusion. Not sure why there's so much griping about the prices. I think $349 is reasonable. Not cheap but not exorbitant either.
From PcPer:
Then again the prices might be hiked up a bit initially for release from price gouging retailers.
I think I'll wait for Kepler, hopefully I can sell my card and get one of kepler or the 7870.
Flyinfinni
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2009
- Messages
- 1,300
I think you over-estimate the number of people who actually research first, and actually buy based off of reviews. I would say actually most people see that the 7970 is the current fastest and buy. Or X card is the fastest in my budget = BUY. Currently, the 7870 IS the fastest card you can get for $350. A negative review would probably have SOME impact, but probably not as much as you'd expect.
No, I want 6950 prices for the 7870.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/07/25/sapphire_hd_6950_2gb_dirt_3_video_card_review/10
July 25, 2011
Unlockable, free (new at the time) game, $250. That's a deserving Gold Award winner right there.
When it comes to power consumption, certainly the 7870 beats the competition silly. It is faster than a 570 so probably a good upgrade from a 560 Ti 448.
Regarding price, the AMD cards cost around the same as competing NVidia cards, so I don't see any reason to complain. 7870 2GB price is between 570 1280M and 570 2560M, and 7850 2GB price is between 560 Ti 1GB and 560 Ti 2GB.
One fact that has not been stressed enough IMO is that with the 7850, AMD has brought 2560x1600 gaming to cards with one 6-pin PCIe power connector. This is quite an achievement.
Regarding price, the AMD cards cost around the same as competing NVidia cards, so I don't see any reason to complain. 7870 2GB price is between 570 1280M and 570 2560M, and 7850 2GB price is between 560 Ti 1GB and 560 Ti 2GB.
One fact that has not been stressed enough IMO is that with the 7850, AMD has brought 2560x1600 gaming to cards with one 6-pin PCIe power connector. This is quite an achievement.
Well I'm disappointed. I mean, performance is good, but I wish that I had picked up a 6950 last year instead of waiting. I could have been enjoying it all of this time. If the 7870 had been priced at $300 I would have strongly considered ordering one, but at $350 I might as well wait and see what Nvidia brings. Not that I expect Nvidia to undercut AMD mind you, but it's nice to dream.
Maybe I should start shopping in the FS thread.
Maybe I should start shopping in the FS thread.
MavericK
Zero Cool
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 31,901
It's barely faster than a GTX 570. The only real benefit would be for the added VRAM.
MavericK
Zero Cool
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 31,901
Those prices they listed are a little messed up, you can get any of those cards (save the 7870 of course) for way less than that. Like on the order of $50+ less.
more for less
So you want a 6970/7870 at 6950 prices...I see what your saying but those 2 cards are in a different league. We all would like to see lower prices in every performance range so still don't see the gripe?
So you want a 6970/7870 at 6950 prices...I see what your saying but those 2 cards are in a different league. We all would like to see lower prices in every performance range so still don't see the gripe?
Thanks for doing my homework today. I did exactly that and as someone above stated, yes I do my research before I buy. A new 6950 2g mem is going for 289 and the 6970 on average 350 seems like the prices aren't coming down for the 6900 series YET. They seemed to have crawled up somewhat, the 6970 were 50 cheaper few months back. I've been keeping track cause I want to build a xfire.
With the current stock of 6xxx cards running dry I wouldn't expect these 7xxx cards to drop in price significantly unless nVidia decides to price their competing cards much lower, and if you guys think AMD's recent prices are wacko just have a look at nVidia's track record.
I think the days of cheap cards with amazing performance is over, at least in terms of progression. It seems AMD has kept the perf-per-dollar roughly the same and hasn't advanced on that front while perf-per-watt and the performance ceiling (better higher end cards) have proven to be much better. I'm glad I picked up my 5870 for $150!
I think the days of cheap cards with amazing performance is over, at least in terms of progression. It seems AMD has kept the perf-per-dollar roughly the same and hasn't advanced on that front while perf-per-watt and the performance ceiling (better higher end cards) have proven to be much better. I'm glad I picked up my 5870 for $150!
Yes, more for less. That's how technological advancement tends to work.
How are they in a different league? The sapphire dirt 3 card is unlockable, it was a 6970 you could buy for $250...LAST YEAR.
Unless you mean the 7870 is coming out a year later and costs $100 more while delivering similar performance. In which case you're right, they're in a different league.
The league of "How the fuck does tech not only not get faster, but increase in price 40% YOY, and get a [H] silver award in the process?"...I'm not sure it's a league that will really take off, it's quite a mouthful.
You mean the MSRP are similar, or their street prices after discounts and MIR? BIG difference. For boxing week sales, you were finding 2gb 6950's for under $200 and 560ti under $190 (or less).
I see your point but:
1. Was the 6950 ment for unlocking? Like the older Tricores, I'm guessing AMD wouldn't think people would buy those just to unlock. Anyway,the fact that an unlocked 6950 = 6970 is false.
2. Would it have been so much better if they sold it OC'ed by 10-15% so the enduser could still OC it another 10-15% which according to the reviews puts the 7870 around the performance lvl of a gtx 580 which costs a chunky bit more.
Don't feel offended, I'm trying to figure out what the hell is going on aswell ^^.
its like: 7750 < 7770 < 6850 < 6870 < OC 6950 < OC 7850 =< 6970 < OC 7870 < ???? < OC 7950 < OC 7970
Last edited:
sirmonkey1985
[H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2008
- Messages
- 22,414
grr me want so badly.. great performance at 1920x1200 which is what i game at and the power efficiency is nice. i probably will wait a month or so though and see what custom cards come out and see if the prices drop, kepler isn't on my buying list even if they have 20% more performance because quite frankly we all know they will be power hogs.
Wrong....you want to take a 6950 and try to unlock it with no guarantees, which will also void the warranty and call it a 6970. That is logic fail right there. I don't care about fucking awards, only performance per dollar with power savings as a bonus. And technological advancements tend to be pricier at first release.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
- Messages
- 55,635
I totally get where you are coming from. But figuring "value" on GPUs when there is no competition in the segment is hard to do. You notice we have not given these parts Gold awards but rather Silver (sans 7970) and we have been forthcoming about price and how these fit into the current product stacks. These GPUs are some of the most efficient and feature laden GPUs we have ever seen. These are award worthy in my opinion.
But I totally see your point, and we have spelled this out in text in our reviews as well, so don't act like we are blind to the value proposition. These are great GPUs, but I agree on pricing in that it seems high for the segment it is in. The fact is though, AMD will drop the prices when it is not happy with sales volumes.
We need TSMC churning out 28nm parts for AMD and NVIDIA alike very soon to get prices down to levels that we think are affordable for the performance. But this will NOT happen any time soon unless NVIDIA bellies up to the table with some competition. Team Green is the one screwing you right now, not AMD.
I took the average difference between the HD 7870 and GTX 570 from [H] review results and it is around 15% faster. While 15% isn't massive it isn't "barely" either. The GTX 580 is around 20% faster than a GTX 570, so HD 7870 is closer to GTX 580 than it is to GTX 570.
I think it is $30-50 too expensive and am of the opinion that AMD are taking the piss because Nvidia don't have a card yet. Thankfully GK 104 will be out soon and push these prices down to more realistic levels.
The gripe is that you are basically not getting any benefit from the new generation. I can buy a 7870 for $349, or I can buy the year old 6970 for $350 and get the exact same performance. So where's the advantage of a new generation? When the GTX 570 came out and replaced the GTX 480 (on the performance side) it didn't cost the same as the GTX 480 - it was cheaper. When the GTX 460 came out and replaced the GTX 285 (performance wise) it also was cheaper (significantly, in that case). So you would expect to see the new card replace the old one at a lower price point. You xan make the argument that the price for the 7970 is valid since it sets a new performance band (I don't agree, but you can argue it) but the 7870 does not. It is a drop in replacement for the 6970 at the exact same price. So much for progress.
jojo69
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2009
- Messages
- 11,267
Hey [H] guys,
any mining data on these? the 68xs were the sweet spot last gen, and BTC drove a lot of sales of those cards.
any mining data on these? the 68xs were the sweet spot last gen, and BTC drove a lot of sales of those cards.
Kyle, would the 7870 be more deserving of a gold than the 7850 in this case? The 7870 doesn't seem to be overpriced, in fact I think it's priced just right if you consider the 570s and 6970s that it's competing against.
The 7850 on the other hand might be priced a bit sillier than the 7870. The 7870 when OC'd with some tweakage will likely provide performance close to a 580 (wow...) so I'm not too concerned about it's $350 asking price. In fact, with some driver maturity and some tweaking I'd wager they'll be the new "must buy" for us enthusiasts. The 7850 just wreaks of poor price-to-performance at the moment, though you're right about team green being late to the party on this one :/
The 7850 on the other hand might be priced a bit sillier than the 7870. The 7870 when OC'd with some tweakage will likely provide performance close to a 580 (wow...) so I'm not too concerned about it's $350 asking price. In fact, with some driver maturity and some tweaking I'd wager they'll be the new "must buy" for us enthusiasts. The 7850 just wreaks of poor price-to-performance at the moment, though you're right about team green being late to the party on this one :/
If you had to choose a video card today between the 2 what would it be a 6970 or 7870? That should tell you right there that it has some benefits...but I also agree that we don't seem to be getting any performance increase for the same amount of $$$$! Come on NV!
If you want price/performance, the mid/high end cards aren't where to find it. Street price/performance is what people are interested in, and both the 7850 and 7870 are not giving that. Well maybe now that availability of the 69xx cards is drying up, sure. But back in Dec, you could buy 2gb 6950 cards for around $200 after MIR. The 7850 can't come close to matching that. Unless we see street prices actually being below MSRP. And we saw that happen with the 79xx cards, didn't we?
Guess we'll see once that are up for sale. Not really holding my breath.Don't spoil a very valid argument by stating that the 6970 is = to the 7870. The HD 7870 16% faster on average according to the [H] review. Since the price and performance of the 7XXX series cards have been confirmed it is clear that they are around $40-50 overpriced. For example, if the HD 7870 was $300-310 it would offer a significant price/perf increase over the GTX 570 and HD 6970. I honestly believe we will see these prices sooner rather than later, once GK 104 is finally released.
Edit: Clearly the rumoured 7890 card is not something that is likely to see the light of day at current pricing. HD 7950 3GB is $450, HD 7950 1.5GB is going to be $400 and 7870 is $350, so this leaves no room to squeeze in a 7890.
Last edited:
Flyinfinni
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2009
- Messages
- 1,300
Remember though that when the 460 and 570 came out, AMD already had, or was in process, of releasing a DIRECTLY COMPETITIVE PART. The 570 had to compete with the 6970 when it was released, which was already at the ~$350 price point. Currently, the only thing the 7870 has to compete with is the 6970/570 which are both ~$350 and the 7870 is faster than both, and significantly more energy efficient than both, and has MORE room to grow as the software matures and as more and more next gen DX11 games are released where the 7870 shows more advantages over the 6970/570 due to the GCN arch.
I'm sure they hear the one customer that won't buy their product and it's not their loss as much as it is yours.
I'm sorry but no, he is not the only one, the general sentiment I've found in many other sites is the same as his, the 7xxx series is either way overpriced or the performance just does not guarantee the need for an upgrade from the 6xxx generation.
And unless nvidia blows the entire civilization with kepler, I'm sure the same will apply to them with kepler and the gtx 5xx family. Right now the only thing it will bring to the table is driving the prices down, at this moment AMD is really being INTELish with their GPUs.
txsizzler
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,571
As a mentioned in another, similar thread:
".. I figure you will see a massive price drop once the GTX 660 series emerges... I figure this price drop will occur in the beginning of the 3rd quarter. Based on figures I have seen, the GTX 660 will flat out DOMINATE the 7870 in performance (the GTX 660 is supposed to be as fast as the 580, and the 660 Ti should trump the 7950... the 660 is rumored to be priced at $319, the Ti at $399)."
Ian
".. I figure you will see a massive price drop once the GTX 660 series emerges... I figure this price drop will occur in the beginning of the 3rd quarter. Based on figures I have seen, the GTX 660 will flat out DOMINATE the 7870 in performance (the GTX 660 is supposed to be as fast as the 580, and the 660 Ti should trump the 7950... the 660 is rumored to be priced at $319, the Ti at $399)."
Ian
sirmonkey1985
[H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2008
- Messages
- 22,414
yeah and your point is? intel doesn't have any problems selling processors with their insane prices, and guess what, neither does AMD with their current prices on the 7k series. if they were having problems selling cards the prices would of been dropped already but they aren't. the fact is at their current prices they can give up 10-15% of their sales and still make the exact same profit that they would of made if they were to drop the prices to get those 10-15% more sales. its a business, not a charity service, they are in it to make money and that is it.
maybe but at what cost to power efficiency.. the power efficiency of the 7870 alone makes it a damn good buy even at its high price for those that are still sporting older cards like myself still using 2 8800GT's. i mean hell the 7870 out performs them by a large margin and uses 75% less power in the process, hard to complain given the fact that both these cards combined cost me 400 bucks and i bought them a year and half after they had come out.
Last edited:
i don't see what all the complaints are over price.
the 7870 is faster than the 6970, it uses less power, offers more features, and is physically smaller. Then it is priced the same as a 6970.
huh why complain about that?
While yes there are meant to be the mainstream cards, as of right now they are far from that. With the 7870 pretty much matching a Nvidia 580 in performance. Currently makes them High end. With the 580 being priced at 400$+ The 7870 offers a much better value.
You will only see price drops when nvidia either drops its price of their current cards, or if they release Kepler and its competitive.
Ok off my soapbox now.
the 7870 is faster than the 6970, it uses less power, offers more features, and is physically smaller. Then it is priced the same as a 6970.
huh why complain about that?
While yes there are meant to be the mainstream cards, as of right now they are far from that. With the 7870 pretty much matching a Nvidia 580 in performance. Currently makes them High end. With the 580 being priced at 400$+ The 7870 offers a much better value.
You will only see price drops when nvidia either drops its price of their current cards, or if they release Kepler and its competitive.
Ok off my soapbox now.
Just a general statement...its funny how many people buys video cards for whatever price now then try to sell them used 6-8 months later for basically what they bought it for, only to find out the prices have dropped, so they piss and moan about it. Supply and demand people...AMD has the supply and people are demanding it. Why sell for $300 when you can sell what them for $350 at the moment. If it bothers you that much wait for Kepler and see if it's better or prices drop on AMD cards?