AMD Radeon HD 6970 Rumors (Benchmarks)

Well, even if those scores are true, it's hard to draw any conclusions about the true performance of the card. It'll be faster than the GTX480 by some margin, but we already knew that. The real question is how it will stack up with the upcoming GTX580. I suspect we'll really just see a replay of the last round though; the 6970 will be slightly slower than the GTX580, while the 6990 will easily be the fastest card overall; probably with a larger margin this time around, given that we definitely saw improved CFX performance/scaling in the 68xx cards which likely(hopefully) translates to the 69xx series as well.
 
I think that is to be expected, that the 580 will be faster, but when will it come out?
The 5870 was king for 6 months before the 480 saw the light of day in the hands of reviewers.
The 580 will probably come out in 6+ (Q2 2011) months, that means that the 480 was king for 6 months, then the 6970 for 6 months, then the 580 for another 6 months. kings come and go. Its the usual circle.

buy by your upgrade cycle (if it happens to be black friday or christmas, then its the 6970) or next year then it might be the 580 (unless the 7970 or what ever the new number will be comes out).

I am curios to see if the 6970 and the 580 will be hot and loud, or cool and silent. Cool and silent wins the day for me, even if it costs a few fps.
 
Megalomaniac said:
I am curios to see if the 6970 and the 580 will be hot and loud, or cool and silent. Cool and silent wins the day for me, even if it costs a few fps.
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This. And this also proves why "kings come and go" is such a subjective phrase. I would happily sacrifice 20 even 30% of my fps to save 50% on power usage and a good 6db or so.
 
ATI/AMD needs to increase the VRAM to at least 2GB because 1GB just isn't cutting it these days if you play at high resolutions/maxed out with AA.

And also, we need more specs as well.
 
+1 to the increased vram request. CFX'd totals should be closer to 4GB not 2GB, nvidia is already doing this with 1.5GB fermi's...

I like this competition, this is really neat.
 
John Vuong said:
ATI/AMD needs to increase the VRAM to at least 2GB because 1GB just isn't cutting it these days if you play at high resolutions/maxed out with AA.

And also, we need more specs as well.
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I'm not sure 2gb is needed but i could be wrong, i haven't seen anyone do a detailed analysis of vram data usage. The ability is out there just doesn't happen, we just sortof assume as time goes on that we have hit a limit for vram.

What apps are out there that monitor vram usage? i know riva tuner used to (i haven't used it in a long time though).

Maybe its something [H]ardocp would be willing to do an article on.

I suspect as with everything, the multi platform development probably is holding back on the usage of large textures, that and possibly a pcie bandwidth limitation.
 
Megalomaniac said:
I think that is to be expected, that the 580 will be faster, but when will it come out?
The 5870 was king for 6 months before the 480 saw the light of day in the hands of reviewers.
The 580 will probably come out in 6+ (Q2 2011) months, that means that the 480 was king for 6 months, then the 6970 for 6 months, then the 580 for another 6 months. kings come and go. Its the usual circle.

buy by your upgrade cycle (if it happens to be black friday or christmas, then its the 6970) or next year then it might be the 580 (unless the 7970 or what ever the new number will be comes out).

I am curios to see if the 6970 and the 580 will be hot and loud, or cool and silent. Cool and silent wins the day for me, even if it costs a few fps.
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Why does everyone think its expected for the GTX580 to be faster than the 6970? Just out of curiosity, especially when you consider the improvements that have been made to the architecture of even the 68xx which doesn't even include all of the improvements that the 69xx series will have? I don't have any expectations of one to beat the other and expect them to both be excellent performers, just seems we really don't have anywhere near the information to even expect one to beat the other.
 
John Vuong said:
ATI/AMD needs to increase the VRAM to at least 2GB because 1GB just isn't cutting it these days if you play at high resolutions/maxed out with AA.
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For sure. I hope Cayman by default launches with 2GB as standard fare. Outside of a handful few, there's barely any games that tax current hardware, thanks to console ports. The only reason we need more powerful cards now is for 25x16/Eyefinity/Surround or high levels of AA. I believe we're at a point where we have more GPU power vs VRAM.
 
Flyinfinni said:
Why does everyone think its expected for the GTX580 to be faster than the 6970? Just out of curiosity, especially when you consider the improvements that have been made to the architecture of even the 68xx which doesn't even include all of the improvements that the 69xx series will have? I don't have any expectations of one to beat the other and expect them to both be excellent performers, just seems we really don't have anywhere near the information to even expect one to beat the other.
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It's just expected to be that way.

Look at previous generations:

Dual gpu:
GTX295 > 4870X2
9800GX2 > 3870X2

Single Gpu:
GTX480 > 5870
GTX285/275 > 4890
9800GTX > 3870
8800GTX > 2900XT

Only exception is that this time around NV has no answer for the 5970. Though a heavily overclocked 480 can come close to the 5970.
 
Well, you can look at the ATI roadmap to see where they've placed the 6970; it's just below the 5970. Sure, you can say roadmaps don't mean anything, but fact is that they've probably *tried* to place the card there, so it's unlikely it will actually be faster than a 5970. With that in mind, I think it's unlikely Nvidia will release a GTX580 with only a small performance increase; I'd expect at least 20%, more like 30% over the GTX480. At that point we're basically at the 5970's level, and so, judging by the history that rUmX put up, it's likely we'll again have the top GTX card throning the single-GPU area with the 6970 10% behind( though possibly winning in a few ATI-biased games) and the 6990 30'ish% ahead.
 
Raap said:
I think it's unlikely Nvidia will release a GTX580 with only a small performance increase; I'd expect at least 20%, more like 30% over the GTX480.
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These benchmarks have the 6970 at 20% over the GTX480, so that would pretty much put the GTX580 in a dead heat.

I think these are reasonable expectations.

There will be no huge 80%-100% leaps until we get the maxed 28nm chips.
 
I would love to see the GTX580 and 6970 be in a dead heat. Would be great for the consumer :)
 
Raap said:
Well, even if those scores are true, it's hard to draw any conclusions about the true performance of the card. It'll be faster than the GTX480 by some margin, but we already knew that. The real question is how it will stack up with the upcoming GTX580. I suspect we'll really just see a replay of the last round though; the 6970 will be slightly slower than the GTX580, while the 6990 will easily be the fastest card overall; probably with a larger margin this time around, given that we definitely saw improved CFX performance/scaling in the 68xx cards which likely(hopefully) translates to the 69xx series as well.
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not at all.

Cayman is going to kick Fermi's ass, that seems to be really all there is to it. Cayman is full blown RV870 reorg, with efficiency tweaks, pipeline tweaks, more ROP power, etc etc. The GTX 580 is just fermi done not-wrong: 512 SPs instead of 480. If those scores are accurate, and Cayman is 25% faster than RV870 was, Nvidia's stop-gap 512SP Fermi take-two wont hold a candle to it: the GTX 580 might manage 10% over the GTX 480, but you gotta remember, the GTX 480 ran at 95C under load when it was new, they cant actually be thinking of trying to run the 580 at any higher clockspeeds.

That said, Nvidia, when they dont have a better package, they fight hard and dirty in the trenches, pushing out products with absolutely no profit margin just to hold market share and mind share.

No matter what, X-mas 2010 is shaping up nicely for the consumer :)
 
MrWizard6600 said:
not at all.

Cayman is going to kick Fermi's ass, that seems to be really all there is to it. Cayman is full blown RV870 reorg, with efficiency tweaks, pipeline tweaks, more ROP power, etc etc. The GTX 580 is just fermi done not-wrong: 512 SPs instead of 480. If those scores are accurate, and Cayman is 25% faster than RV870 was, Nvidia's stop-gap 512SP Fermi take-two wont hold a candle to it: the GTX 580 might manage 10% over the GTX 480, but you gotta remember, the GTX 480 ran at 95C under load when it was new, they cant actually be thinking of trying to run the 580 at any higher clockspeeds.

That said, Nvidia, when they dont have a better package, they fight hard and dirty in the trenches, pushing out products with absolutely no profit margin just to hold market share and mind share.

No matter what, X-mas 2010 is shaping up nicely for the consumer :)
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Good post. History usually repeats itself but this is going to be the exception. the 580 (what 480 was supposed to be)done right is a good way to put it. The 40nm is so tapped out for the 480. the popular rumor right now is that the 580 will use 768 cores which logically suggest a dual gpu.(would be a stupid move for Nvidia but I think they are desperate enough) If its only a single gpu 580 there isn't any more headroom to really work with on the current node being so power hungry. In short 580 will probably be 20% over a 480, but the 6970 is more likely to have a larger improvement in performance (over recent gen) than past recent history posted in this thread has shown. This is based on Cayman having a much larger die and power yield over the 5870.
 
I'm hardly a Nvidia fanboy, but I think you guys are underestimating both Fermi and Nvidia. I really don't believe they would even bother with a GTX580 if it was only 10% faster than the GTX480. Like I said, I'd expect *at least* 20%, more realistically 30-35%; they'll be squeezing everything they can out of that GPU(not just unlock the last SPs) to be able to compete with and likely win the single-GPU throne. They also won't release it until after the 6970, so they'll do what it takes just to give it that tiny little performance advantage over the 6970. It'll be hot, loud and probably not profitable, but I think they'll get there.
 
Raap said:
I'm hardly a Nvidia fanboy, but I think you guys are underestimating both Fermi and Nvidia. I really don't believe they would even bother with a GTX580 if it was only 10% faster than the GTX480. Like I said, I'd expect *at least* 20%, more realistically 30-35%; they'll be squeezing everything they can out of that GPU(not just unlock the last SPs) to be able to compete with and likely win the single-GPU throne. They also won't release it until after the 6970, so they'll do what it takes just to give it that tiny little performance advantage over the 6970. It'll be hot, loud and probably not profitable, but I think they'll get there.
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20% is a modest guess for either side. If you want a 20% faster GTX 480 buy an overclock model right now and forget about waiting til late December. Same goes with 6970, if it will only be 20% faster than GTX 480 buy a 5970 and enjoy it till next gen. Chances are they wil perform better than 20% over GTX 480. I again believe GTX 580 will end up ahead of 6970 and below antilles. However nvidia may have a few tricks up their sleeve with mainstream GF114 coming soon, a dual version could face off against antilles, How it will fare against antilles is another story, they also have a Low end GF119 coming in late Q1 11. From now to 28nm it will be very interesting.
 
I personally think Nvidia will work some magic with the 580, it should be a good card. There's no way they're gonna release a new GPU that's barely faster than the 480 and consumes more power.
 
Raap said:
I'm hardly a Nvidia fanboy, but I think you guys are underestimating both Fermi and Nvidia. I really don't believe they would even bother with a GTX580 if it was only 10% faster than the GTX480. Like I said, I'd expect *at least* 20%, more realistically 30-35%; they'll be squeezing everything they can out of that GPU(not just unlock the last SPs) to be able to compete with and likely win the single-GPU throne. They also won't release it until after the 6970, so they'll do what it takes just to give it that tiny little performance advantage over the 6970. It'll be hot, loud and probably not profitable, but I think they'll get there.
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The GTX 460 showed a lot of improvements when people were seriously doubting Fermi. 460s ruled the mid range until the 68x0 launched, and presumably Nvidia continues to learn about Fermi and how to get more performance from it. Seems like anytime Nvidia has a good product out, its always "Wait for ATI, this won't last". Then when ATI leap frogs Nvidia, the tone changes "ATI is superior, Nvidia will never catch up now!".
 
Staying on topic. I do think ATI will pull of a fairly not loud (not to be confused with silent) and cool 6970, but the 580 will be a slight repeat of the 480.

To put it simply, if you can make the cooler beefier enough and loud (pushes more air) enough, then the card can be clocked higher, giving you that 5% edge over the competition. Which is what Nvidia did with the 480. (i dare anyone to argue how slow the 480 would have been if it was using the same type of cooler and drew the same power as a 5870) but that is a trick and a it does work per say, because these are the official cards and not vendor OCed.

Mind you, ATI did have the same issue with the 2xxx series. so both camps do it.
The trick is in this: the one who moves first sets the bar. In this 40mm generation, ATI had the 5xxx series out almost a year before the 4xxs. That means that Nvidia had to beat it.

Until Nvidia catches up or leap frogs ATI in this regard, which can happen very easily, it will be a catch up game for Nvidia.

I am rooting a bit for Nvidia, because I want to see more price drops. I like the fact that the 460 OC (850Mhz) now sells for 210, and is on par (kinda) with the 6870 which is 30 bucks more expensive.
 
Raap said:
I'm hardly a Nvidia fanboy, but I think you guys are underestimating both Fermi and Nvidia. I really don't believe they would even bother with a GTX580 if it was only 10% faster than the GTX480. Like I said, I'd expect *at least* 20%, more realistically 30-35%; they'll be squeezing everything they can out of that GPU(not just unlock the last SPs) to be able to compete with and likely win the single-GPU throne. They also won't release it until after the 6970, so they'll do what it takes just to give it that tiny little performance advantage over the 6970. It'll be hot, loud and probably not profitable, but I think they'll get there.
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even 20% is a waste lets get back on topic shall we. Enough about 580 until we get a mockup card from dear leader at least.
"more realistically 30-35%"
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keep dreaming. We won't see that until 28nm.
 
I dont think ive ever seen a 30% gain, that number is used every time a new card is about to come out.
 
if those heaven benchmarks are right. AMD has really tweaked the architecture pretty good and seems as if norhter island being just a hybrid is pretty damn fast. I expect souther island on 28nm to be smoking, since that will be a new architecture. I guess the whole media was wrong about norhtern islands being a new architecture when it was suppose to be souther islands.
 
supposedly 6950 6970 6990 coming out with good prices from 300-400-500 and i would hope the 6990 be faster than the 5970 and more available 5970 is still what 700 dollars?
 
I see posts by people speculating which next-gen GPU is going to win against its future competitor. Lets see the cards and their specs and some benchmarks before we get too argumentative OK?

I admire AMD for having kept a much lower power envelope than NV in the current series, especially in the case of higher end GPUs. A GTX 480 using almost as much power as a 5870 CFX is ridiculous IMO. That and the hotter running aspects of Fermi. AMD has kept power and heat in check on its high end GPUs. NV has not as much.
 
I would be happy with the 6970 coming in at $399 with real availability and handling Eyefinity better than the 5870 at 5760x1200 res.

Will it come with 2gb memory standard ?

And for sale Thanksgiving ?
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
I Think the GTX580 will be faster.. I also think that its going to require its own air conditioner to keep it form overheating though.
 
bore_u2_death said:
I see posts by people speculating which next-gen GPU is going to win against its future competitor. Lets see the cards and their specs and some benchmarks before we get too argumentative OK?

I admire AMD for having kept a much lower power envelope than NV in the current series, especially in the case of higher end GPUs. A GTX 480 using almost as much power as a 5870 CFX is ridiculous IMO. That and the hotter running aspects of Fermi. AMD has kept power and heat in check on its high end GPUs. NV has not as much.
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Thread title is called rumors. Usually on tech forums like this people take these rumors (usually in the form of confirmed architecture facts and leaked chinese benchmarks)that we already have and speculate. Which bring us to what we have today. On 1 hand we have confirmed architecture from AMD's Cayman, the other we got pure nonsense pulled out of thin air (580 will be fast brah cuz I believe). At least we got a picture of Cayman
2249394004.jpg


bastage said:
I Think the GTX580 will be faster.. I also think that its going to require its own air conditioner to keep it form overheating though.
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round and round we go......nvidia forums ---> that way
 
bore_u2_death said:
I admire AMD for having kept a much lower power envelope than NV in the current series, especially in the case of higher end GPUs. A GTX 480 using almost as much power as a 5870 CFX is ridiculous IMO. That and the hotter running aspects of Fermi. AMD has kept power and heat in check on its high end GPUs. NV has not as much.
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We'll see if they can do as well on the 6970. 255W TDP, if true, is nothing to sneeze at.
 
Still there is no reason to be that way.
And no justification either.

Now just keep the thread on topic and have fun, we are all [H] fellas, sheesh :-P
 
I dont think anyone should be kicked to either forum. If you are too sensitive to deal with back and forth company vs company comparison you should post your thread in the AMD or Nvidia Forum, If it's in the video card forum then you should be prepared to debate and display thick skin. BTW OP if you dont want the direct competitor GTX 580 to be discussed here PM a moderator and ask the thread to be moved to the AMD forum and you'll probably get alot less Nvidiaism LOL ;)
 
lets just wait till the benches come out, what good does speculation do other than make for a great way to have an e-penis contest
 
Revdarian said:
Still there is no reason to be that way.
And no justification either.

Now just keep the thread on topic and have fun, we are all [H] fellas, sheesh :-P
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Its all fun to me, you read too much into it.

gigatexal is online now Report Post
lets just wait till the benches come out, what good does speculation do other than make for a great way to have an e-penis contest
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We can't even have an e penis contest with no mockup card from Nvidia. sad I know.
 
Raap said:
I suspect we'll really just see a replay of the last round though; the 6970 will be slightly slower than the GTX580, while the 6990 will easily be the fastest card overall; probably with a larger margin this time around, given that we definitely saw improved CFX performance/scaling in the 68xx cards which likely(hopefully) translates to the 69xx series as well.
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Funny, same thing was said a year ago for the previous round, and it certainly did not end up that way...

I have dual GTX 480 in SLI (might get a third if I need it), but I'd have dual 5970s in crossfire if the above ended up true for the previous round...
 
Interesting if that picture is cayman. You think it's the 6950? Considering it's 2 6-pin connections?
 
Who cares which company has the faster better product. To be a fanboy of a piece of technology is a joke and sad :rolleyes: Unless you work for them or own a major stock in the company, you should just purchase the best bang for the buck, regardless of brand name. I mean, because at the end of the day, all this shit is just some Taiwanese circuit boards all stamped together at some child labor factory sold to us, way marked up, to make a video game run faster.

I have been building my own game systems for over 15yrs, and have enjoyed both nVidia and ATI products. It is best for us consumers to have them duke it out every year, with them trading blows every generation. You should not root for one to topple the other, then we all lose.

I am currently enjoying my 5870 in Eyefinity, to run my triple Dell 27" monitors. I hope nVidia can copy or make a similar tech like this, to run triple monitors on a single card, and driver.
 
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