AMD Radeon HD 4800 Series @ [H]

Seems like some people's definition of an"enthusiast" is more like a definition of a fool,as in "a fool and his money are soon parted". Rushing out and buying the latest "top of the line" card when another manufacturer is offering essentially the same performance for hundreds less defies logic.It's not the "journalist crowd" that Nvidia pissed off,it's the consumers.They passed off one tired refresh of the 8800 after another as "the next big thing",at inflated prices.And people bought them because they just didn't have a competitive alternative.But now they do have alternative - and at a lower price.Does it make them any less "enthusiasts" for telling Nvidia to take their $600+ card and shove it?
 
mlambert890 said:
This may have been said, and I realize this article is pretty old now, but the tone of a lot of the enthusiasts sites with re: to the 4000 series has me scratching my head.

The whole point of the enthusiast community has always been maximum performance. Thats why you see communites proudly proclaimed as [H]ard!!! or XTreme!!!!

Yet with the 4870, somehow everyone is now consumer reports. Totally downplaying the fact that the GTX280 IS the best performer and instead crapping on NVidia for it being "too expensive" and crediting the 4000 series with "performance per dollar". Its starting to get like car forums where Honda maniacs rant and rave about how they get "more HP per liter" than a Viper.

Why all of the subjective BS like relative value in an enthusiast article? Is this a new tone that we'll now see in articles about liquid nitrogen cooling, server class moboards, super high clocked RAM, etc etc??? Or is this new attitude reserved exclusively for NVIdia because they did something to piss off the "journalist" crowd?

Again, this isnt for [H]ard only, Ive noticed it across the board. The GTX280 wins every benchmark yet the 4870 is hailed as a MASSIVE slam dunk because it is a couple of hundred less. I guess in the land of MULTI GPU GAMING, stretching the dollar now trumps absolute performance.

Dont get me wrong, these cards are a massive value and do a great job, but it just seems that in the past, reviewers would always acknowledge the king of the hill in some way other than lambasting it for being the most expensive.

I know that stepping up from 8800GTX SLI to GTX280 SLI got me to 35fps in Crysis at 1900x1200 with everything on Very High. This has allowed me to finally play the game as the 8800 just choked on that res/detail level and I decided to wait rather than dumb it down.

I bought the 8800GTX pair back in Jan 07 for $650 each, so I got 18 mths out of them and was able to sell them to help finance the GTX280 (which I paid ~$500 each for recently).

Sure the 4870 would have been a bit cheaper - few hundred total I guess - but over the course of 18 mths or so it really isnt a big deal considering the performance is lower!
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Because Nvidia is "the establishment" or "the man". All the smart people are anti-establishment. :rolleyes:
 
At the end of the day the GTX280 just isn't the same leap forward against previous cards that the 8800GTX was.
The 4000 series are a big leap forward for ATi, and there isn't a huge gap between the 4870 and the 280. No-one is saying the 280 isn't top of the pile its just that for most people the performance over and above the competition of the 280 is simply not good enough to justify the difference in $$$.

The 8800GTX was so far ahead of anything else it was easily worth the money, if you had it. The 280 just hasn't proved its worth at current prices imo.

As far as I'm concerned being an enthusiast means get the best you can afford and making it work the best you can.
 
mlambert890 said:
This may have been said, and I realize this article is pretty old now, but the tone of a lot of the enthusiasts sites with re: to the 4000 series has me scratching my head.

The whole point of the enthusiast community has always been maximum performance. Thats why you see communites proudly proclaimed as [H]ard!!! or XTreme!!!!

Yet with the 4870, somehow everyone is now consumer reports. Totally downplaying the fact that the GTX280 IS the best performer and instead crapping on NVidia for it being "too expensive" and crediting the 4000 series with "performance per dollar". Its starting to get like car forums where Honda maniacs rant and rave about how they get "more HP per liter" than a Viper.

Why all of the subjective BS like relative value in an enthusiast article? Is this a new tone that we'll now see in articles about liquid nitrogen cooling, server class moboards, super high clocked RAM, etc etc??? Or is this new attitude reserved exclusively for NVIdia because they did something to piss off the "journalist" crowd?

Again, this isnt for [H]ard only, Ive noticed it across the board. The GTX280 wins every benchmark yet the 4870 is hailed as a MASSIVE slam dunk because it is a couple of hundred less. I guess in the land of MULTI GPU GAMING, stretching the dollar now trumps absolute performance.

Dont get me wrong, these cards are a massive value and do a great job, but it just seems that in the past, reviewers would always acknowledge the king of the hill in some way other than lambasting it for being the most expensive.

I know that stepping up from 8800GTX SLI to GTX280 SLI got me to 35fps in Crysis at 1900x1200 with everything on Very High. This has allowed me to finally play the game as the 8800 just choked on that res/detail level and I decided to wait rather than dumb it down.

I bought the 8800GTX pair back in Jan 07 for $650 each, so I got 18 mths out of them and was able to sell them to help finance the GTX280 (which I paid ~$500 each for recently).

Sure the 4870 would have been a bit cheaper - few hundred total I guess - but over the course of 18 mths or so it really isnt a big deal considering the performance is lower!
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So basically you don't think everyone is taking your purchase of the GTX 280 seriously enough? Being [H]ard doesn't mean being [D]umb with money, the GTX280 is a poor value, and UMAP also annoyed a lot of people.

The GTX280 still gets bested by the 9800GTX2 in some test, that is far from [H], but a product that can't eclipse the last generation by a signifigant margin and gets nearly clipped by a competitors product that is half it's price, well that is just ad. So this isn't some trend to undermine your bragging rights, nVidia screwed up this round and is getting slammed for it.
 
I sold my 8800GTX for $210.00 and got a visiontek 4850 at BB for 194 out the door
and its faster than my 8800GTX and takes up less space and uses less power
thats pretty cool
 
123Lanoix said:
I sold my 8800GTX for $210.00 and got a visiontek 4850 at BB for 194 out the door
and its faster than my 8800GTX and takes up less space and uses less power
thats pretty cool
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its not that much faster than the 8800gtx so it wasnt much of an upgrade IMO. also with a 700watt psu do you really care that it uses less power than your 8800gtx?
 
meh way i look at it i got rid of a 8800GTX
got a 4850 which is a little bit faster for nothing
and now i can down the road get another 4850 for CF
the 4850 does everything the 8800GTX can do but faster
 
cannondale06 said:
its not that much faster than the 8800gtx so it wasnt much of an upgrade IMO. also with a 700watt psu do you really care that it uses less power than your 8800gtx?
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just because ur psu is capable of 700w doesn't mean that it's actually using it.
 
shiznit said:
just because ur psu is capable of 700w doesn't mean that it's actually using it.
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um what? I never said anything of the sort. I said he had a powerful power supply so getting a 4850 based on it using less power than the 8800gtx was not a reason to switch.
 
I'm loving the Powercolor 4850 512 right now. Fan manually set to 60% Idle: 49C, Load: 55C. I also have clocks set with very mild OC of 635/1000.

ALSO, Does anyone know how to overclock/underclock the shader speed? I thought the 4800 series they were going to allow that.
 
how loud is the 4850 with the fan mod? what is the minimum cpu to have to not get a bottleneck? thanks. damn search is down it seems.
 
4800 series change the rules of the game, as much the 8800GT did.
people want performance without paying ultra for it.
still remember when I bought my voodoo 3 card for the same price a 4850 cost today here.

Today, the herdware is so good for most peoples resolutions so there isnt a need to get the worst there is.

4870 in the mail replacing my aging 8800GT. ;)
 
Mert said:
how loud is the 4850 with the fan mod? what is the minimum cpu to have to not get a bottleneck? thanks. damn search is down it seems.
Click to expand...

I've fiddled around the fan cycle:
60% = bearable noise
70% = jet engine
100% = broken glass everywhere (j/k)
 
honestjohn said:
Gigabyte or MSI = 3 year US warranty , Powercolor = 2 year US warranty. It's a toss up support wise, I'd base choice on warranty.

hd4870warrantyfd7.jpg


The only extras I've seen with any of these cards are from HIS which inlude a screwdriver/flashlight/level tool. Asus which includes "Alone in the Dark" game or a Mousepad and Powercolor which has a ATI Remote Control for a limited time on Newegg, but more expensive than card without bundle..
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Do you think have 2x 6pins help overall with the cards??
 
Ok here's a question, with the fan mod, is the 4850 at 100% Fans Speed louder than the X1900xt leaf blower fan at 100%???.

I
 
Can everyone crank up the AA in the game without as much as a performance hit? Itching to pull the trigger on one.
 
How exactly do I update my drivers / control center for an HD4850? I'm using 8.53 without problems, but when and if new drivers with cool stuff comes out I'd like to update, or just update now to keep current.

I checked the guide on the main video card page, but in my control panel the only ATI thing I see is the uninstall utility. I looked through the step by step at AMD's own website, but when it comes to ask what specific card I have, the 4800 series isn't even on there.

Can anyone who has successfully updated tell my step-by-step what you did? (IE, what did you uninstall in the CP, booting in safe mode, driver sweeper, install etc.) I'd rather not guess at it, since it's working now and I don't want to break it by trying to update.
 
in this review the 4870 uses alot more power then in the 4870x2 review. Did somthing change? originaly the 4870 used more then the GTX260 and 280 then it uses less in the 4870x2 review
 
radiatinglines said:
How exactly do I update my drivers / control center for an HD4850? I'm using 8.53 without problems, but when and if new drivers with cool stuff comes out I'd like to update, or just update now to keep current.

I checked the guide on the main video card page, but in my control panel the only ATI thing I see is the uninstall utility. I looked through the step by step at AMD's own website, but when it comes to ask what specific card I have, the 4800 series isn't even on there.

Can anyone who has successfully updated tell my step-by-step what you did? (IE, what did you uninstall in the CP, booting in safe mode, driver sweeper, install etc.) I'd rather not guess at it, since it's working now and I don't want to break it by trying to update.
Click to expand...
Completely remove all ATI drivers in "add and remove programs" in windows. Then restart you machine, install new drivers, and restart again. Should be good to go.

Digital Viper-X- said:
in this review the 4870 uses alot more power then in the 4870x2 review. Did somthing change? originaly the 4870 used more then the GTX260 and 280 then it uses less in the 4870x2 review
Click to expand...
The initial review of the 4870's power play was not working properly. It's been sorted now and 4870's have a lower power consumption.
 
snowysnowcones said:
Completely remove all ATI drivers in "add and remove programs" in windows. Then restart you machine, install new drivers, and restart again. Should be good to go.


The initial review of the 4870's power play was not working properly. It's been sorted now and 4870's have a lower power consumption.
Click to expand...

does power play effect the load power
 
is any one else experiencing stuttering in Far Cry 2? i have Catalyst 8.10 and i also installed the Catalyst Far Cry 2 Hotfix it didn't do anything..........i tried that command to limit my FPS to 30 that fixed it but that's fucking retarded i hope they fix this soon.......



[HIS HD4850]
 
Hi, I'm building a new mid-range system, and I'm on the fence between choosing the VisionTek 4850 and the XFX 8800GTS 512:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129112
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150261

The 4850 costs $170, while the 8800GTS costs $190 and comes with Call of Duty 4. I was actually planning to buy CoD4, so I would actually be saving myself more money with the 8800GTS. But if I did buy the 4850, I would most likely buy a used copy of CoD4, so I'd probably only be looking at spending another $30--thus making the cost comparison closer to $200 for the 4850 and CoD4 vs. $190 for the 8800GTS and CoD4.

I have seen a lot of benchmarks, and the 4850 definitely trumps the 8800GTS in most games, but the only thing holding me back from jumping on the 4850 is complaints I've seen about the ATI drivers. I've tried doing some reading around here, but a lot of discussions are a bit old, so I just want to know how ATI's drivers are now faring in terms of stability.

Thanks
 
Both companies have their own problems with the drivers. I can point out posts of people having troubles with nVidia drivers and I can do the same with ATi. Saying that nVidia has a better driver than ATi is not a fact.
 
RichardCory said:
Hi, I'm building a new mid-range system, and I'm on the fence between choosing the VisionTek 4850 and the XFX 8800GTS 512:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129112
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150261

The 4850 costs $170, while the 8800GTS costs $190 and comes with Call of Duty 4. I was actually planning to buy CoD4, so I would actually be saving myself more money with the 8800GTS. But if I did buy the 4850, I would most likely buy a used copy of CoD4, so I'd probably only be looking at spending another $30--thus making the cost comparison closer to $200 for the 4850 and CoD4 vs. $190 for the 8800GTS and CoD4.

I have seen a lot of benchmarks, and the 4850 definitely trumps the 8800GTS in most games, but the only thing holding me back from jumping on the 4850 is complaints I've seen about the ATI drivers. I've tried doing some reading around here, but a lot of discussions are a bit old, so I just want to know how ATI's drivers are now faring in terms of stability.

Thanks
Click to expand...
for the money you are looking at spending on the 8800gts 512mb you could get a 9800gtx+ which is slightly better. plus there are much better deals on the 4850 than the one you linked to so you need to look at newegg a little closer.
 
cannondale06 said:
for the money you are looking at spending on the 8800gts 512mb you could get a 9800gtx+ which is slightly better. plus there are much better deals on the 4850 than the one you linked to so you need to look at newegg a little closer.
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Hi, you're right. I decided to go with the Asus 4850 since it comes with a better cooler and a 3-year warranty, and it's $140 after MIR. Also, I couldn't get a 9800GTX+ because it will be to big to fit in the case I'm buying (Antec Solo). I know I could use a dremel, but I really don't want to be cutting anything up.

Thanks
 
I find it crazy that with a quad, three raptors, an exos cooling kit, 2 4870s in crossfire, the system only pulls 458w from the wall. I thought the tdp for these at 100% load is 175 w, which would leave ~100w for the CPU, exos, 3 raptors, motherboard? am I missing something?
 
Drewis said:
I find it crazy that with a quad, three raptors, an exos cooling kit, 2 4870s in crossfire, the system only pulls 458w from the wall. I thought the tdp for these at 100% load is 175 w, which would leave ~100w for the CPU, exos, 3 raptors, motherboard? am I missing something?
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how do you not get it? do you actually think every component is at 100% load and max TDP? also the 4870 cards only have a MAX of 150 watts and they usually dont reach that.
 
Hmm nice. So i should be fine running my crossfire 4870's with my 500 watt antec, probably wouldnt even pull 430w.
 
Drewis said:
Hmm nice. So i should be fine running my crossfire 4870's with my 500 watt antec, probably wouldnt even pull 430w.
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well you dont want to really push your psu that close to the edge plus you have pretty good oc on that cpu. also where are you getting that your 500 watt earthwatts psu is a 550 watt unit. the old 500 watt units were just Corsair 450 watt supplies with cheaper caps and the newer 500 watt earthwatts likely arent any better. so if anything your 500 watt psu is about like high a end 450 watt unit.
 
there were two versions of my psu that were built, one by seasonic, the other by delta, the one I have. the seasonic model is the one you were referring to as being a high end 450w. the seasonic model is rated for 17x2 A on the 12v's. mine is rated 22x2A. they changed oem's without changing the wattage rating, but increased the amperage. I believe hardocp was the site that I read about the 550w thing. at any rate, 500w continuous psu shouldn't be too dangerous? I still plan on picking up pcp&c 610w to be safe but I don't see why it wouldn't be just fine if with a c2d instead of a quad, 2 hdds and no watercooling gear. I'd estimate my psu would be at 82% load, which is just outside of the sweet spot anyways....
 
Drewis said:
there were two versions of my psu that were built, one by seasonic, the other by delta, the one I have. the seasonic model is the one you were referring to as being a high end 450w. the seasonic model is rated for 17x2 A on the 12v's. mine is rated 22x2A. they changed oem's without changing the wattage rating, but increased the amperage. I believe hardocp was the site that I read about the 550w thing. at any rate, 500w continuous psu shouldn't be too dangerous? I still plan on picking up pcp&c 610w to be safe but I don't see why it wouldn't be just fine if with a c2d instead of a quad, 2 hdds and no watercooling gear. I'd estimate my psu would be at 82% load, which is just outside of the sweet spot anyways....
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well thats just a little bit outside of my comfort zone. Im not sure how many more watts that oc added either. either way I wouldnt do it long term for sure but if you plan on getting a better psu then its not a huge risk.
 
Drewis said:
there were two versions of my psu that were built, one by seasonic, the other by delta, the one I have. the seasonic model is the one you were referring to as being a high end 450w. the seasonic model is rated for 17x2 A on the 12v's. mine is rated 22x2A. they changed oem's without changing the wattage rating, but increased the amperage.
Click to expand...

Still the same total amount of amperage in both the Delta and Seasonic versions: 34A total on the +12V rail.

In addition, in the review, the CPU was not fully loaded. Many games will fully load the CPU depending on the game, res, video card, etc. So that 458W isn't exactly that accurate. Also note that a vast majority of parts these days draw power from the +12V rail. Since the EA500 only has 34A or 408W available on the +12V rail, that's something else you should factor in.

Also, if you're planning on buying from Newegg and are willing to buy from a different site, I highly recommend going with the PC P&C 750 from www.zipzoomfly.com since it is only $100, $15 cheaper than the PC P&C 610W at Newegg.com:
$100 - PC Power & Cooling S75CF 750W PSU

Even if you have to stick with Newegg, the PC P&C 750 is still cheaper than the PC P&C 610:
$110 - PC Power & Cooling S75CF 750W PSU
 
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