AMD MoBo to support Dual 3090?

MrGuvernment

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Do you need the dual 3090's for vram alone? wait to see what the 3080Ti comes along with?
 

IceCaveMan

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Do you need the dual 3090's for vram alone? wait to see what the 3080Ti comes along with?
I'd prefer to get 3080TI, but my hunch is that those won't actually be shipping in volume until April or later. Better chance to actually secure 3090. Some big projects can't wait. (Love your sig, btw.)
 

lopoetve

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Pick any Threadripper board. Any x570 that would be close would be x8/x8... I'll do some searching, but I'm not sure a triple-slot will fit given how those lanes are assigned and they normally build the board (lower PCIE slots are always from the chipset).
 

IceCaveMan

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Pick any Threadripper board. Any x570 that would be close would be x8/x8... I'll do some searching, but I'm not sure a triple-slot will fit given how those lanes are assigned and they normally build the board (lower PCIE slots are always from the chipset).
Was hoping to install 5950x (for single-threaded performance). I'm moving over from Intel...is x570 the most performant AMD mobo type? I have ultra-massive case, so size won't be an issue. Thanks for info already!

Would reluctantly use riser for 2nd card. This isn't for SLI, but for 3d rendering.

(Ext.) ATX obviously; I've only owned ASUS in the past. Something in this class preferred, but this looks light on PCIe
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ROG-Cro...g=wpcentralb-20&ascsubtag=UUwpUdUnU81649YYwYg
 
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lopoetve

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lopoetve

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Was hoping to install 5950x (for single-threaded performance). I'm moving over from Intel...is x570 the most performant AMD mobo type? I have ultra-massive case, so size won't be an issue. Thanks for info already!
For the moment - but Zen3 Threadripper should be out soon, and will be compatible with TRX40. Cost is your issue there. Threadripper is HEDT - you'll get 3-4 x16 slots AT x16 with it, and a minimum of 24 cores - and it goes up from there. EXPENSIVE, but depending on your workload, might make sense. Similar to the LGA2011 Intel boxes (I9 Extreme)

What's the workload?

edit: Also depends on what you mean by "performant" - it's the best consumer board. Threadripper is HEDT/Prosumer, and TR Pro is Professional. Depending on your definition, one of those could be better - but will cost a lot more.
 

IceCaveMan

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For the moment - but Zen3 Threadripper should be out soon, and will be compatible with TRX40. Cost is your issue there. Threadripper is HEDT - you'll get 3-4 x16 slots AT x16 with it, and a minimum of 24 cores - and it goes up from there. EXPENSIVE, but depending on your workload, might make sense. Similar to the LGA2011 Intel boxes (I9 Extreme)

What's the workload?

edit: Also depends on what you mean by "performant" - it's the best consumer board. Threadripper is HEDT/Prosumer, and TR Pro is Professional. Depending on your definition, one of those could be better - but will cost a lot more.
Workload: 50% 3d (c4d, blender, others)
50% Adobe Creative Suite...lots of After Effects

-After Effects doesn't utilize multi-processing very well, so single core speed is more helpful
-3d work, CPU is most important for viewport, and there again much of that is driven by single core speed
-I use GPU network to render (6-10 GPUs)
-10Gig Network is must

Mega-core count CPUs won't help me much, so Threadripper is less beneficial. I hear you though...it's ecosystem is workstation class...and those TRX40 MoBos like awesome.

Off to explore single core perf on upcoming ThrRiprs.
 

lopoetve

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Workload: 50% 3d (c4d, blender, others)
50% Adobe Creative Suite...lots of After Effects

-After Effects doesn't utilize multi-processing very well, so single core speed is more helpful
-3d work, CPU is most important for viewport, and there again much of that is driven by single core speed
-I use GPU network to render (6-10 GPUs)
-10Gig Network is must

Mega-core count CPUs won't help me much, so Threadripper is less beneficial. I hear you though...it's ecosystem is workstation class...and those TRX40 MoBos like awesome.

Off to explore single core perf on upcoming ThrRiprs.
Zen3 TR should be about the same as Zen3 consumer- you nailed it with the ecosystem comment though. It’s everything you get with it. I use mine for a bunch of VMs; cores and NVMe are benefits, etc.

I did the Zenith II Extreme Alpha; it’s overkill, but there are more cost sane boards out there. Or those x570 should probably work...
 

lopoetve

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Was hoping to install 5950x (for single-threaded performance). I'm moving over from Intel...is x570 the most performant AMD mobo type? I have ultra-massive case, so size won't be an issue. Thanks for info already!

Would reluctantly use riser for 2nd card. This isn't for SLI, but for 3d rendering.

(Ext.) ATX obviously; I've only owned ASUS in the past. Something in this class preferred, but this looks light on PCIe
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ROG-Cro...g=wpcentralb-20&ascsubtag=UUwpUdUnU81649YYwYg
Your edit: all x570 will be somewhat PCIE limited . You get 24 lanes; 4 for nvme, 4 for the chipset, which means only 16 for slots (or they have to go through the chipset, which is only x4). That is limiting for workstations.
 

zandor

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Nvidia 3090 cards are triple-slot. Anyone know of a new AMD MOBO to support dual 3090's?
Not all 3090s are triple slot. I have an EVGA RTX 3090 XC3 that's only a little over dual slot. It's close enough at least if you don't shove a card in the slot immediately next to it. It barely protrudes past the dual slot bracket. Air cooled FTW cards are triple slot, as are the Founder's Edition and everything I remember seeing from other brands... though there might be some others that are small enough to fit.

MSI Godlike looks like it would have space for 2 triple slot cards with one empty slot between them. They can do 16x/0x/0x, 8x/0x/8x, or 8x/4x/4x + a 4x off the chipset. Not cheap at $673 or $720. Also EATX. Ultra massive cases are usually fine with that though. There are also a bunch of ASRock boards that could fit them but they'd run at 16x and 4x with the 4x off the chipset. Blech.

Threadripper boards look to often have the same spacing problem. Chances are the other 16x slot is in the middle and leaves no clearance between two triple slot cards. It looks like the ones that use more than 6 slots measured from the bottom (Gigabyte Designare and Aorus Extreme, maybe other but I only checked Newegg) are XL ATX.

Then of course there's the third option - liquid cooling. Lots of boards would work if you eliminated the need for clearance between cards to keep them from melting.
 

IceCaveMan

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Not all 3090s are triple slot. I have an EVGA RTX 3090 XC3 that's only a little over dual slot. It's close enough at least if you don't shove a card in the slot immediately next to it. It barely protrudes past the dual slot bracket. Air cooled FTW cards are triple slot, as are the Founder's Edition and everything I remember seeing from other brands... though there might be some others that are small enough to fit.

MSI Godlike looks like it would have space for 2 triple slot cards with one empty slot between them. They can do 16x/0x/0x, 8x/0x/8x, or 8x/4x/4x + a 4x off the chipset. Not cheap at $673 or $720. Also EATX. Ultra massive cases are usually fine with that though. There are also a bunch of ASRock boards that could fit them but they'd run at 16x and 4x with the 4x off the chipset. Blech.

Threadripper boards look to often have the same spacing problem. Chances are the other 16x slot is in the middle and leaves no clearance between two triple slot cards. It looks like the ones that use more than 6 slots measured from the bottom (Gigabyte Designare and Aorus Extreme, maybe other but I only checked Newegg) are XL ATX.

Then of course there's the third option - liquid cooling. Lots of boards would work if you eliminated the need for clearance between cards to keep them from melting.
VERY helpful info. Thanks Z! I ought to consider custom water cooling as it would dramatically shrink space requirements (as well as performance gain)
 

IceCaveMan

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lopoetve, zandor ...from your input I'm thinking I should go full workstation Mobo. 3d Rendering isn't greedy about 16x PCIe, but the overall flexibility and power is compelling.​


Now I need to learn TRX40 vs sTRX4 vs WRX80, etc.
 
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DPI

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I'd prefer to get 3080TI, but my hunch is that those won't actually be shipping in volume until April or later. Better chance to actually secure 3090. Some big projects can't wait. (Love your sig, btw.)
Agreed. People are in love with this fantasy of "January" for 3080 Ti, but there is no way in hell it's before March/April -- there's just no business case for them to do it any sooner. Especially not while AMD seems to be struggling to get any quantities of 6800/6900 out (I barely see any - whereas the flow of Ampere's is constant).
 
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lopoetve

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lopoetve, zandor ...from your input I'm thinking I should go full workstation Mobo. 3d Rendering isn't greedy about 16x PCIe, but the overall flexibility and power is compelling.​


Now I need to learn TRX40 vs sTRX4 vs WRX80, etc.
TRX40 is the current Threadripper chipset, sTRX4 is the socket for the processors for that chipset (the prior was X399 and SP3 socket). You want the current one - Zen1/1+ were ~ok~ for TR, if you stayed at or below 16 cores - above that, weird memory latency (why they moved to TRX40). WRX80 doesn't exist. The TR Pro boards are OEM only, as are the chips - EXPENSIVE, like 10-15k just for the system. Don't know the socket/chipset off of that, but it's effectively the same as Epyc (the server processor) minus multi-socket compatibility. There are Epyc workstation boards, all sold with CPU, but see prior statement - EXPENSIVE.

Effectively, find any modern TRX40 board - they should all be forward compatible with Zen3 TR. The only real difference in generations on the boards is for the VRMs - mostly for overclocking, or if you're going to run a 3990X (you have no need; you'll probably be on a 3960X). There are a LOT of good ones out there - other than hearing that the TRX4 Creation is cheap, most are really good - pick any Asus (the STRIX gaming and Zenith II are both great, although the latter is expensive) - MSI doesn't have much in that market. Gigabyte has several, as does ASRock. Pick your price point, pick a board - you're set.
 
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D-EJ915

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The MSI Godlike X570 is the only board that has 4 slot spacing for the current bridge until a 3 slot bridge comes out.
 

IceCaveMan

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That said, 2 x 3090 all the way -- there are youtube's of dudes running Cyberpunk at 8K with dual 3090's, that seems like a good way to play.
I'm more of a content creator (3d) guy, but I can imagine!

And c--rap...I didn't realize Zen 3 Thr-rpr aren't expected 'til mid 2021.
 
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lopoetve

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That's why I said forward compatible :) Still be plenty of market for the chip after they come up - sell it and buy the next gen if you need more performance :)
 

IceCaveMan

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That's why I said forward compatible :) Still be plenty of market for the chip after they come up - sell it and buy the next gen if you need more performance :)
Is the heart of a system the motherboard...or it's CPU/GPU? I think it's the latter (for me).

Current thread ripper is 30% slower single thread performance and 2x the cost relative to 5950x. Worse on electricity too since not 5nm. Chasing the preferred mother board is pushing me away from primary goals. May re-think the plan.
 
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lopoetve

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Is the heart of a system the motherboard...or it's CPU/GPU? I think it's the latter (for me).

Current thread ripper is 30% slower single thread performance and 2x the cost relative to 5950x. Worse on electricity too since not 5nm. Chasing the preferred mother board is pushing me away from primary goals. May re-think the plan.
Zen3 and Zen2 are both 7nm. where did you get the 30% from? I'm generally seeing 15-20%.

The MB is what ties it all together as a platform - heart is either the CPU or the GPU, depending on what you're doing (IMHO). But the MB has to tie in everything you need - that's why I went Threadripper. Cores were important, but I'd have been fine with 16 - but I needed more RAM, more PCIE, and more NVMe than x570 was really built to provide. It's easy to add more speed or cores by picking a different CPU or GPU, but you can't add more PCIE lanes or connectivity - that's a platform change.
 

IceCaveMan

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Zen3 and Zen2 are both 7nm. where did you get the 30% from? I'm generally seeing 15-20%.

The MB is what ties it all together as a platform - heart is either the CPU or the GPU, depending on what you're doing (IMHO). But the MB has to tie in everything you need - that's why I went Threadripper. Cores were important, but I'd have been fine with 16 - but I needed more RAM, more PCIE, and more NVMe than x570 was really built to provide. It's easy to add more speed or cores by picking a different CPU or GPU, but you can't add more PCIE lanes or connectivity - that's a platform change.
Yes, correct...but very optimized "tock" on the 7nm. (I've been looking at M1 just from curiosity and 5nm stuck in my brain).

Single thread performance shown here--not full 30% but a big gap:
https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-amd_ryzen_threadripper_3970x-948-vs-amd_ryzen_9_5950x-1749

I would be willing to pay the premium if I could have my cake and eat it too. If I can't: single core performance is huge. Adobe After Effects is very poorly optimized for multi-thread. My guess is that you place greater premium on lots of different boot drives and compiling speed.

In truth I'd be happy w/5900x and two 3090. GPU compute and single-thread CPU perf is my game. Storage: 2GB NVME boot, huge data RAID drive and BU. 10Gig ethernet. Nothing else really.
 
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tived

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IceCaveMan

exciting project!

what is your budget and timeline? No point in dreaming about something that isn’t available within your timeframe.

apologise but you seem confused about what you want/need (no offence intended). Perhaps specify what you want to archive with your setup compared to what you have.
I know you said your workload is 50/50 2D/3D at least that’s how I read it.

think holistic it’s the sum of all the parts that makes a good system, and a healthy amount of $$$ 💰

do you know what it is in a system that will enhance and improve your workflow? What applications do you use and are they cpu or gpu heavy, if cpu is it single or multi-threaded? This will guide you in part to what platform you need

equally, you need to consider if you need multiple add-on cards which used PCIE resources, if you need more than 20-lanes - you will need to forget about x570 and 5950x and think HEDT or workstation

how much rendering are you doing? if you are already off-loading to nodes, do you need to power on this computer. Unless you want to run preview renders frequently

Can you specify what components you want to reuse e.g. you mentioned have an old big case? So do I, but that doesn’t work for what I want to do today.

i think you will find that the consensus here is that Threadripper systems will do best with a large custom water cooling setup. Particularly if you intend to run the CPU @ 100% for many hours in renders etc, same goes for your GPU’s so having adequate space it important too.

let us know where you are up to by now.... wondering if you still consider the M1, or will it be a Threadripper or maybe an Xeon or something else? We are spoilt for choices at this time, maybe too many 😉🤔

good luck

henrik
 

noko

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Nvidia 3090 cards are triple-slot. Anyone know of a new AMD MOBO to support dual 3090's?
Not all 3090's are triple slot, EVGA 3090 XC3 are 2.25 width with air cooler

EVGA 3090 XC3 Ultra Hybrid is 2 slot but with water cooler which you have to mount

If putting on a water block in a custom loop - 1 slot

You have options to use many different motherboards in X570 or TRx40 with dual 3090's.

If you need more room, use a pcie gen 4 riser cable and put the second GPU anywhere you want, some cases have triple slot vertical mounting.

You did not indicate ram amounts seeked or storage capacity or capability.
 

thesmokingman

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thesmokingman

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I upgraded my system semi-modestly and now am prepared to wait for the next TR...however long I have to wait. ;)
You can read this thread while you wait. But I don't know, you could be waiting a long ass time vs the time you could have billed out 50% more production in that same allotment of time. And for the record, you don't need Threadripper Pro's Epyc based backend, don't need massive memory for content creation, don't need 128 pcie lanes either, nor do you really need rdimms or ecc. The primary importance is cores and for those shit apps that are single threaded in certain stages like AE, TR3 boosts to 4.7ghz in the 3970x. That leads to my other point which is the cooling, you want a ton of it. Because with enough cooling you can let the cpu loose ala raise its PPT from 280w to the region of 350w. That will raise your R20 score from 16.5K to 18K. If you have more cooling capacity you could raise the PPT limit even higher. TR3 will keep scaling with appropriate cooling. Thus you could bill oout at a much higher rate now while you wait. Then get the TR5 (it's designation is 5000 series) chip, swap and sell the old one and you are not out as much but you've at a minimum doubled your hw speed in the meantime.

https://hardforum.com/threads/build-3970x-dual-2080ti-8tb-m-2-raid-render-monster.1990145/
 
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IceCaveMan

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You can read this thread while you wait. But I don't know, you could be waiting a long ass time vs the time you could have billed out 50% more production in that same allotment of time. And for the record, you don't need Threadripper Pro's Epyc based backend, don't need massive memory for content creation, don't need 128 pcie lanes either, nor do you really need rdimms or ecc. The primary importance is cores and for those shit apps that are single threaded in certain stages like AE, TR3 boosts to 4.7ghz in the 3970x. That leads to my other point which is the cooling, you want a ton of it. Because with enough cooling you can let the cpu loose ala raise its PPT from 280w to the region of 350w. That will raise your R20 score from 16.5K to 18K. If you have more cooling capacity you could raise the PPT limit even higher. TR3 will keep scaling with appropriate cooling. Thus you could bill oout at a much higher rate now while you wait. Then get the TR5 (it's designation is 5000 series) chip, swap and sell the old one and you are not out as much but you've at a minimum doubled your hw speed in the meantime.

https://hardforum.com/threads/build-3970x-dual-2080ti-8tb-m-2-raid-render-monster.1990145/
I would agree with you if...if I did 3d rendering w/CPUs. I, like most 3d pros are using GPU rendering these days.

I upgraded an existing PC via a used Ryzen 3900x off Ebay...and upgraded my network to 10Gig w/new Switch & NAS. That and purchased some network rendering software for After Effects. So I'll have 3 systems to do AE network rendering. While two of the PC's are old-in-tooth Intel x99, working in tandem the 3 computers should give AE operation a big lift.

Not much I can do to improve GPU 3d rendering at the moment.
 
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