AMD Misses Big CHANCE

JCNiest5

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I truly believe AMD misses this supreme chance to really put their CPUs out there. Intel is catching back up because AMD went MIA when their chance emerges. Me, I'm no loyal to any brand. Whatever brand is best at the time, I just jump on that bandwagon. Now, I'm on 3950X just because...you guess. Was hoping to jump on the 5950X, but well, guess what? You guess it!
 

slavie

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I have to disagree. AMD is supplying Ryzen chips in the new Xbox and Playstation, and they have contractual obligation with MSFT and SONY on those fronts. Everything else, they're cranking the CPUs out as fast as fabs will produce them. They're hammering Intel hard, any chart you look at shows it. Some OEMs (puget, iirc) are reporting that Ryzen enthusiast system shipments now outnumber Intel systems, which is huge for AMD. The only reason Intel is hanging on is that AMD does not have the fab allocation to produce more, as AMD does not have it's own fab - they spun it off into independent GlobalFoundries in 2009.
 

robijito123

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I am guessing either price or stock is limiting you? If stock well who could have guessed they would have 4 product launches of 7nm stuff that would sell out no matter what volumes they produce? I mean GPU dies, zen 3, and consoles. But I do fell you I was hoping they would have an 8 core zen 3 with an apu by now for around $300......

As far as price, well yeah with Intel slashing 10xxx as well as gpu shortages I am very interested in a 10700k vs say a 5800x.
 

JCNiest5

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I have to disagree. AMD is supplying Ryzen chips in the new Xbox and Playstation, and they have contractual obligation with MSFT and SONY on those fronts. Everything else, they're cranking the CPUs out as fast as fabs will produce them. They're hammering Intel hard, any chart you look at shows it. Some OEMs (puget, iirc) are reporting that Ryzen enthusiast system shipments now outnumber Intel systems, which is huge for AMD. The only reason Intel is hanging on is that AMD does not have the fab allocation to produce more, as AMD does not have it's own fab - they spun it off into independent GlobalFoundries in 2009.
I agree on the other stuff, just that since launch, I haven't been able to get a 5950X yet. Pretty much always out of stock. I still have another year to wait. I guess by then, hopefully, AM5 socket is in full swing with 6950X wide available.
 

Slade

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I got a 5600 around launch time; it took months for my 5900x to show up.
 

JCNiest5

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I got a 5600 around launch time; it took months for my 5900x to show up.
5600X and 5800X are available at my local MC(though just very recently as they were OOS for two months prior to that), but they are not the CPUs I want to move to from my 3950X.
 

slavie

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5600X and 5800X are available at my local MC(though just very recently as they were OOS for two months prior to that), but they are not the CPUs I want to move to from my 3950X.
At least you can get a latest gen CPU. 5800X has been available directly from AMD for a while now.
I dare not ask how you feel about the GPU situation, because things are way rougher on that front.
 

cjcox

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I think both AMD and Intel supply chains aren't doing well.
 

x509

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I agree on the other stuff, just that since launch, I haven't been able to get a 5950X yet. Pretty much always out of stock. I still have another year to wait. I guess by then, hopefully, AM5 socket is in full swing with 6950X wide available.
Now I'm glad that last year I decided to get a 3900X instead of waiting for a 5000-series CPU. My new build rocks.
 

MrGuvernment

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ya 5600 and 5800 I am seeing alerts for all the time now, the 5900x and 5950's seem to be very very rare.
 

slavie

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No, but Intel CPU's have far better availability than their AMD counterparts. In fact, in Q4 of last year Intel retook the crown from AMD in terms of total units shipped for the desktop. Availability is the reason.
Sure, but I bet the margins are nowhere near what AMD is getting with their premium CPUs, even after you account for higher production costs from the new process for AMD. Intel is forced to compete on price now, and they will have to drop even further once AMD can churn out more product. Intel clearly hasn't managed to resolve their problems with their 12th Gen CPUs.
 

Brackle

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Yeah you can FINALLY find 5800x and 5600x in stock. Now the 5900x and 5950x has been super rare to find. I got super lucky on my 5900x.

I think it was just too much 7nm products that AMD was trying ship out to everyone, and not enough capacity as TSMC. Xbox, PS5, GPU's, CPU's....
 

kirbyrj

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No, but Intel CPU's have far better availability than their AMD counterparts. In fact, in Q4 of last year Intel retook the crown from AMD in terms of total units shipped for the desktop. Availability is the reason.

Here's a quote from that article:
Intel’s market share growth was largely due to the chipmaker increasing manufacturing capacity for lower-end processors such as Celeron and Pentium, though growing sales of Core i5 and Core i7 processors also played a role on the desktop side, according to Dean McCarron of Mercury Research, a Prescott, Ariz.-based firm that produces a quarterly x86 CPU market share report based on shipments.

LARGELY due to celerons and pentiums which AMD really didn't have an answer for in that segment (and still doesn't). Buying a Facebook machine for grandma isn't going to require a $1000 computer. Q4 seems like a convergence of a new product launch, people waiting for availability of new product vs. buying the old Zen2 product, or went with the available CPU from competitor.

It definitely doesn't seem like a trend. Q1'21 availability is already somewhat better than Q4'20 for AMD (CPUs not GPUs).
 

Dan_D

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It definitely doesn't seem like a trend. Q1'21 availability is already somewhat better than Q4'20 for AMD (CPUs not GPUs).
Well, I can tell you on the high end, 10900K availability was far better than 5800X, 5900X and 5950X's during Q4. That being said, I agree with you in that this quarter is shaping up much better on the availability front for AMD.
 

mjlitola

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I am guessing either price or stock is limiting you? If stock well who could have guessed they would have 4 product launches of 7nm stuff that would sell out no matter what volumes they produce? I mean GPU dies, zen 3, and consoles. But I do fell you I was hoping they would have an 8 core zen 3 with an apu by now for around $300......
It seems that AMD is leaving the low end for Intel. It is suprising, but you can do pretty well with just the low end. In Finland we had Nokia, which was running a pretty tight ship producing low end mobiles. Finland is a very small country, but for a long time 15 years or so, Nokia's weight on Finnish stock market (HEX) was so strong (over 50% of the value) that all the other stocks could go down and Nokia up and that one company could save the whole HEX-index to the positive territory!!!
 

slavie

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It seems that AMD is leaving the low end for Intel. It is suprising, but you can do pretty well with just the low end. In Finland we had Nokia, which was running a pretty tight ship producing low end mobiles. Finland is a very small country, but for a long time 15 years or so, Nokia's weight on Finnish stock market (HEX) was so strong (over 50% of the value) that all the other stocks could go down and Nokia up and that one company could save the whole HEX-index to the positive territory!!!
Nokia makes money on network equipment and other commercial stuff. Cell phones are just a relic of the past, certainly not what's keeping Nokia afloat today.
You can make money on the low-end, but margins are not the same. A 5600X and 5800X are identical chunks of silicon, just that one has a core or two that are defective (won't clock enough or whatever). So AMD will physically disable the defective cores and call it a 5600X. In a way, a 5600X costs AMD more to produce (due to extra step to disable) but they sell it for $150 less.
AMD does actually have more defective chips and will eventually release lower end stuff, like 4-core 3300 or whatever with half the core crapped out. Then there will be other low end stuff where cache is bad and whatnot. They don't throw away those partially defective silicon bits, it all eventually goes into lower tier chips. Just that right now that barely have enough capacity to produce the top shelf chips.
 

bobzdar

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Yeah, I think AMD did the best they possibly could - but launching consoles, GPU's and CPU's all at once is going to make supply really tough. The only way they could have mitigated it is to delay the launch but that would have been worse all around. Now they're literally selling every single chip they produce as soon as it's made, and at good margins. I don't know what else they could have done other than stockpile stock and launch later, but I fail to see how that's a better outcome for consumers or them when it comes to technology that can become rapidly obsolete...
 

vegeta535

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Yeah, I think AMD did the best they possibly could - but launching consoles, GPU's and CPU's all at once is going to make supply really tough. The only way they could have mitigated it is to delay the launch but that would have been worse all around. Now they're literally selling every single chip they produce as soon as it's made, and at good margins. I don't know what else they could have done other than stockpile stock and launch later, but I fail to see how that's a better outcome for consumers or them when it comes to technology that can become rapidly obsolete...
Are they good margins tho? AMD is buying up all the 7nm process. Basically all they doing is AMD stuff on that nod. It can't be cheap to hoard most of it. I am sure they making a nice profit still.
 

bobzdar

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Are they good margins tho? AMD is buying up all the 7nm process. Basically all they doing is AMD stuff on that nod. It can't be cheap to hoard most of it. I am sure they making a nice profit still.
AMD only has 9%of tsmc capacity, Apple at 25%. Granted, they're the second largest buyer, but not even at 10%of tsmc capacity. Qualcomm and Nvidia are both in the 6-7%range.

Per Lisa Su - business is very good right now, they are selling everything they can pump out at high asp - higher than Intel on the cpu front and similar to nvidia on the gpu front.

Problem is the demand side is out of whack right now, but that's a good problem for amd to have. The trick is not over producing when the demand isn't so high but this may be the new norm.
 

KazeoHin

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The truth is that AMD simply cannot make the chips fast enough to compete with Intel.

They have the better performance
They have the better efficiency
They have the better platform

They simply can't make them to meet demand.
 

crazycrave

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The truth is that AMD simply cannot make the chips fast enough to compete with Intel.

They have the better performance
They have the better efficiency
They have the better platform

They simply can't make them to meet demand.
65 watts competes
 

Dan_D

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The truth is that AMD simply cannot make the chips fast enough to compete with Intel.

They have the better performance
They have the better efficiency
They have the better platform

They simply can't make them to meet demand.

This has always been one of AMD's biggest problems. Even when they have the better product, they can't produce them in high enough quantities to meet the demands of OEM's. AMD is doing very well in the DIY sector, but even there availability is a huge problem.
 

noko

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This has always been one of AMD's biggest problems. Even when they have the better product, they can't produce them in high enough quantities to meet the demands of OEM's. AMD is doing very well in the DIY sector, but even there availability is a huge problem.
Can't make enough for Microsoft or Sony as well :(. Which may lead to being considered an unreliable partner by all above. If Sony or Microsoft ends up making another console in 5-7 years, Intel is once again firing on more cylinders than not, even if not as good as AMD (If Xe graphics is even remotely successful) that manufacturing capability (if Intel actually invest some big bucks) may become much more important. Too many ifs but AMD needs to come up with better ways of meeting supply demands.
 

Ripskin

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I'm curious how all the work from home expansion impacted their overall shipments against the 3x series launch and units shipped ETC. Too lazy to google right now but it would be interesting to see how that would play out. At least for the more mainstream chips. The enthusiast stuff being constantly out is :(

I was gung ho for a 5900x ahead of launch but quickly said screw that. No parts for a complete rebuild and not worth the time for what I really did not have to have at the time lurking and refreshing for parts. Now that parts are seeing availability I think I would rather wait for the new socket and have some hopefully compatibility with future chips as I loved that about my old AM3 / + builds before Intel's price and offering were just too sweet to pass up.

We'll see what comes out next. Though I really hope they have longer production runs prior to release.

But I don't think they missed their chance, they got screwed by world events and overall have done well to keep things moving. What they have screwed up IMO is continually releasing new products that people still cant buy. Meme'ing themselves into a corner lol.
 

Mega6

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But I don't think they missed their chance, they got screwed by world events and overall have done well to keep things moving. What they have screwed up IMO is continually releasing new products that people still cant buy. Meme'ing themselves into a corner lol.

Nvidia does the same thing and development moves forward no matter what the availability is for everyone who wants parts. Just because you can't find a part doesn't mean it's not being built. As you say there is huge demand and it males no sense to stop development when your competitors are moving forward just the same. It's a meme to you maybe but it's real development and progress for the thousands of purchasers.

Did AMD miss out? Sure they did. So did Nvidia. Not sure why and how you can blame individual vendors for an industry capacity shortage. You can't even really blame TSMC either and they are the ones making the chips! TSMC is expanding like crazy and have been for a couple years.


Amazing how this chip capacity shortage has warped everyone's perception of reality.
 

Zedicus

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Nvidia does the same thing and development moves forward no matter what the availability is for everyone who wants parts. Just because you can't find a part doesn't mean it's not being built. As you say there is huge demand and it males no sense to stop development when your competitors are moving forward just the same. It's a meme to you maybe but it's real development and progress for the thousands of purchasers.

Did AMD miss out? Sure they did. So did Nvidia. Not sure why and how you can blame individual vendors for an industry capacity shortage. You can't even really blame TSMC either and they are the ones making the chips! TSMC is expanding like crazy and have been for a couple years.


Amazing how this chip capacity shortage has warped everyone's perception of reality.

not really warped their reality so much as pointed out most people have no friggin clue how a product is designed, manufactured, shipped, and eventually ends up in a store.

same situation as the people that drive a car but short of the pressing the gas pedal to go and the brake pedal to stop, they have no understanding of how a car works, even at a basic 'engine go vroom vroom' level.
 

Mega6

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not really warped their reality so much as pointed out most people have no friggin clue how a product is designed, manufactured, shipped, and eventually ends up in a store.

same situation as the people that drive a car but short of the pressing the gas pedal to go and the brake pedal to stop, they have no understanding of how a car works, even at a basic 'engine go vroom vroom' level.
That's another way to put it. I was being polite for some reason I guess.
 

DigitalisAkujin

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I've been wanting to purchase a 5950x for quite a bit but since I'm in Hawaii I'd prefer to use Amazon Prime for shipping. I'm also an AMD share holder so this whole experience has been frustrating to say the least.
 

Ripskin

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Nvidia does the same thing and development moves forward no matter what the availability is for everyone who wants parts. Just because you can't find a part doesn't mean it's not being built. As you say there is huge demand and it males no sense to stop development when your competitors are moving forward just the same. It's a meme to you maybe but it's real development and progress for the thousands of purchasers.

Correct, my "meme" comment was more focused on the mining exclusive or not for miner's editions and special edition cards that really would have been niche anyway so it seems to hurt what people are still trying and wanting to buy all the more.

I was defending them and others for still cranking chips out just calling out that global demand has jumped in a number of areas that drove the shortage on top of the initial manufacturing slowdown in the early stages of Covid.

I do not expect they or any other to stop development of their chips as these things are moving years in advance and they cannot easily put the breaks on, just the odd choices of pimping out the limited black edition GPU or whatever it was the other week that would have been a "no one can buy" thing already but in this market. Or the its locked down by invincible drivers from Nvidia that were bypassed in short order lol.
 

OFaceSIG

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AMD doesn't want to turn away customers. Then there is Lisa Su, while I had doubts in the beginning she is a solid CEO. She wants to move product. But she cannot force TSMC to produce more, and she cannot magically reduce demand.
 
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