AMD HD 7000 Delayed to 2012

Before the talk of TSMC's HPL process and how it was ready to go I was thinking jan-feb of 2012. I'm still hopeful for an october-november launch window for some parts, but not getting my hopes up too high now.
 
This is no good. I must prepare for BF3 sooner or later.

Looks like it's time to bite the bullet and get some AWSUMness.
 
I don't think smooth, maxed 4800x2560 BF3 was a realistic expectation of the upcoming generation anyway, I don't think an absolute increase of more than 50% over the GTX580 is very likely from either side, and you're going to need a lot more than the equivalent grunt of 6 GTX580s to get 60+ fps continuous in BF3 at that sort of res. Good news is 3600x1920 should be pretty doable with a pair of HD6990s or a 4-way GTX580 classified system already. Even three 580s would do fairly well.
 
Irritating but kind've expected.

After all both nV and AMD get their GPU's made in TSMC's fabs, and if TSMC fucks things up they're both boned no matter if the design is ready. I wouldn't be shocked if AMD got their GPU's out first but there probably won't be much of a time differential and the volume will likely suck for quite a while.

If nothing else maybe the prices on the 6xxx and 5xx cards will drop more in the mean time and provide some real bargains. Could be worth it if the price goes down enough even for a long term upgrade. I'm still sticking my 4890's that I got for $160 each almost 3 years ago for now and nearly all my games still run well nearly maxed out at 1080p. But if I see some 2GB 6870's for ~$150 or 6950's for ~$200 I might just get those CF'd and forget about the 7xxx cards.

I want to upgrade to one of those 2560x1440 27" LCD's and I'll need some serious GPU oomph to pull that off I think.
 
If I was planning on buying a HD7, I don't think I'll actually do it until nVidia releases Kepler for 2 reasons:
1. Compare the performance between both and get the best that suits our budget.
2. Early batch of HD7 is going to be expensive as hell due to lack of competition and limited availability.

So I don't see why its a big deal anyway, as far as we consumers are concern.
 
mesyn191 said:
Irritating but kind've expected.

After all both nV and AMD get their GPU's made in TSMC's fabs, and if TSMC fucks things up they're both boned no matter if the design is ready. I wouldn't be shocked if AMD got their GPU's out first but there probably won't be much of a time differential and the volume will likely suck for quite a while.

If nothing else maybe the prices on the 6xxx and 5xx cards will drop more in the mean time and provide some real bargains. Could be worth it if the price goes down enough even for a long term upgrade. I'm still sticking my 4890's that I got for $160 each almost 3 years ago for now and nearly all my games still run well nearly maxed out at 1080p. But if I see some 2GB 6870's for ~$150 or 6950's for ~$200 I might just get those CF'd and forget about the 7xxx cards.

I want to upgrade to one of those 2560x1440 27" LCD's and I'll need some serious GPU oomph to pull that off I think.
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The thing is you can already get a 6950 for ~200 dollars after rebate:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150523

I'm sure you could get it slightly cheaper used or from someone ditching their bitcoining hardware. Personally I will be on the lookout for a "cheap" 6950 here soon to upgrade and hold me over till the 7000 series hits.
 
I'm perfectly happy with my 2x6850 for now. I'll probably feel the itch to upgrade once I see benchmarks on new hardware (as I always do:-p) but for now, I'd rather TSMC get the process right and get the stock ready rather than launch cards early and have no stock and possibly process problems. AMD is on top of their GPU game- I'm not concerned.
 
samuelmorris said:
I don't think smooth, maxed 4800x2560 BF3 was a realistic expectation of the upcoming generation anyway, I don't think an absolute increase of more than 50% over the GTX580 is very likely from either side, and you're going to need a lot more than the equivalent grunt of 6 GTX580s to get 60+ fps continuous in BF3 at that sort of res. Good news is 3600x1920 should be pretty doable with a pair of HD6990s or a 4-way GTX580 classified system already. Even three 580s would do fairly well.
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From what you seem to know about BF3, how about 3 x 2Gb 6950's @ 5040 x 1050? Would that setup drive the game decently?
 
Man, I was really hoping we would see some of the next gen this year. I've been holding off upgrading my 4890 for a while now. I mean, a 6950 would be a nice upgrade, but I would hate to get one knowing that a couple months later the new series will be out. This isn't the normal case of trying to guess about obsolescence, we know that new cards are coming. My plan had been to pick up a new card in December and spend my Christmas break playing bf3, skyrim, arkham city, etc.

Also, I wish that amazon's prices were more competitive with newegg's prices. Additionally, amazon's search system is pissing me off. I search for 6950 and it shows me 6870s, gtx 560s, 5770s, etc...
 
anubis44 said:
From what you seem to know about BF3, how about 3 x 2Gb 6950's @ 5040 x 1050? Would that setup drive the game decently?
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For the record, I'm only going from the benchmark from the alpha. Hence I'm never using words like 'will' and 'definitely' in my posts about the game. It's all speculative. I'm anticipating that extra features added between the alpha and retail will be approximately countered by optimisation, within usual margins of error. At 5040x1050, three 6950s should be able to average 60-70fps and minimum 40-55fps, so that should just about be enough, depending on how the game pans out. I wouldn't want to make a definitive call on that one, but you should be able to get by with say, a small AA reduction.
 
jeremyshaw said:
I wonder.... could the mobile GPUs be launched first? They are normally smaller, lower power, and have much higher sale price (though I dunno if this reflects onto the margins).
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Yoda4561 said:
Been wondering about that myself since they demoed a mobile part before anything else. I had figured that they had the mobile space mostly covered with APU's, the only reason to rush mobility 28nm parts out is to get them into Intel laptops before nvidia.
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I'm wondering the same thing... Yoda, what's the driver support like on the 7XXX parts? I may or may not have a MXM 3.0 7XXX card that I can't use :p
 
Could it be Apple is the one to blame for the delayed launch? From news reports it sounds like at least some of the HD 7000 line is ready to launch, it is just waiting for enough chips to come from TSMC. It is rumored that Apple's 28nm chips will be coming from TSMC. Semi accurate just had an article about how wafer prices are going up for AMD and Nvidia for 28nm. http://semiaccurate.com/2011/09/08/exclusive-tsmc-raises-prices-on-amd-and-nvidia/ If Apple is getting first dibs at wafer starts, that would explain why AMD had to delay.
 
I would accept that as being a reason for shortages after the intial launch, but I don't think it should affect this year's timelines.
 
siliconnerd said:
Could it be Apple is the one to blame for the delayed launch? From news reports it sounds like at least some of the HD 7000 line is ready to launch, it is just waiting for enough chips to come from TSMC. It is rumored that Apple's 28nm chips will be coming from TSMC. Semi accurate just had an article about how wafer prices are going up for AMD and Nvidia for 28nm. http://semiaccurate.com/2011/09/08/exclusive-tsmc-raises-prices-on-amd-and-nvidia/ If Apple is getting first dibs at wafer starts, that would explain why AMD had to delay.
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Is Apple using the 28nm half node? I though they were going to use the 32nm one.
 
Yeah I was going to wait for Kepler to release as well before I make a decision so this later release doesn't matter to me that much. But it still would be good if it was released end of year.
 
lilxskull said:
Yeah I was going to wait for Kepler to release as well before I make a decision so this later release doesn't matter to me that much. But it still would be good if it was released end of year.
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I would think that now that nvidia has wind of this announcement they they are scrambling to make the most of it. People playing BF3, Skyrim, Rage, Metro Last Light, may get the itch and upgrade if AMD hits the market first. I think nvidia's new strategy is to have their launch ready as early into the first quarter or not to go head to head against AMD this time, this way they don't lose any potential customers due to AMD having the newest toys available as they have been for the last few generations.
 
They were only planning on releasing the mid level cards this year anyways right? So no biggie.
 
Lord_Exodia said:
I would think that now that nvidia has wind of this announcement they they are scrambling to make the most of it. People playing BF3, Skyrim, Rage, Metro Last Light, may get the itch and upgrade if AMD hits the market first. I think nvidia's new strategy is to have their launch ready as early into the first quarter or not to go head to head against AMD this time, this way they don't lose any potential customers due to AMD having the newest toys available as they have been for the last few generations.
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Lol they aren't scrambling to do anything of the sort. Discrete cards are becoming a small part of Nvidia gameplan. They are focusing on ARM and its application in tablets, phones, servers, and possibly laptops with WIndows 8. Discrete cards will be 5% of their revenue in 5 years (and AMD's), and they both know this.
 
alienate said:
Lol they aren't scrambling to do anything of the sort. Discrete cards are becoming a small part of Nvidia gameplan. They are focusing on ARM and its application in tablets, phones, servers, and possibly laptops with WIndows 8. Discrete cards will be 5% of their revenue in 5 years (and AMD's), and they both know this.
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lol, are you being serious. Yes maybe in 5-10 years it'll be 5% of their revenue. They have a huge business that is never going away with Quadro workstation cards. Yeah those little pixar movies that come out all the time, don't expect them to slow down. Moreover, just because PC's seem to be shrinking with ultrabooks on the way and less and less desktops being sold, don't think that nvidia isn't going to do something about it. Rumors and a few stories have already leaked that they are working to bring out an external solution where you can plug a graphics card into a external enclosure and interface through a bus, currently thunderbolt is being talked about, so they'll be selling discrete cards for some time to come.

Moreover how is you logic that since 5 years from now they are going to barely care about GPU's since it's only 5% of their total revenue so they are going to just lose focus and not be competitive now when it counts work exactly?
 
siliconnerd said:
Could it be Apple is the one to blame for the delayed launch? From news reports it sounds like at least some of the HD 7000 line is ready to launch, it is just waiting for enough chips to come from TSMC. It is rumored that Apple's 28nm chips will be coming from TSMC. Semi accurate just had an article about how wafer prices are going up for AMD and Nvidia for 28nm. http://semiaccurate.com/2011/09/08/exclusive-tsmc-raises-prices-on-amd-and-nvidia/ If Apple is getting first dibs at wafer starts, that would explain why AMD had to delay.
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Not likely. You can't displace existing contracts for new ones. The whole point of contracts is there's guarantees, and penalties for not meeting them. No matter how excited TSMC might be about Apple's business, they can't bump existing contracts for it. As a practical matter I'm not sure they'd want to. Remember fabs make money per wafer, so they actually like big designs. It also means that retail sales aren't necessarily indicative of their sales.

As a simple example say there's a massive GPU that only gets 10 working chips per wafer. There's also a tiny embedded device that gets 1000 working chips per wafer. The GPU is way more expensive and specialized, so it only sells 1% of the amount the embedded device does. Well guess what? Both do the same business for a fab. The produce the same number of wafers for each.

I'm quite sure the reason for the increases is just that 28nm has not been going well for TSMC. The half-node stuff has really not worked well for them when it has been cutting edge, so it gets delayed, costs more, etc.

While more customers like Apple may mean that the long term rate the companies get the chips at is lower, there is no way TSMC could just bump AMD and nVidia without getting sued.
 
alienate said:
Lol they aren't scrambling to do anything of the sort. Discrete cards are becoming a small part of Nvidia gameplan. They are focusing on ARM and its application in tablets, phones, servers, and possibly laptops with WIndows 8. Discrete cards will be 5% of their revenue in 5 years (and AMD's), and they both know this.
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Going OT here - Nvidia must really love arm support for Windows 8 as that means people will be able to run whole computer using only nvidia parts with rumored arm cores integrated into high-end gpu in future architectures.
 
Michaelius said:
Going OT here - Nvidia must really love arm support for Windows 8 as that means people will be able to run whole computer using only nvidia parts with rumored arm cores integrated into high-end gpu in future architectures.
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It won't have X86 support for the arm version, so programs (and games) needs to be ported (and if I am not mistaken, even Nvidia's Tegra 1 was supported by Linux and Windows CE). I have no doubt that Intel will make sure that X86 is still the most dominating platform:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/15/sinofsky_windows8_arm_support_x86_apps/

I think the Windows 8 support for arm is more aimed towards Android and OSX as OS for mobile devices and perhaps as parts of TV for cloud computing and gaming, not to be used as a highend desktop computer alternative. :)
 
gotendbz1 said:
u should've sold your 5870 when the bitcoin shit was hitting the fan, now i would say just wait till kepler comes.
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Yeah I missed the boat on that one. Ok thanks for the advice. Either Kepler or Southern Islands I guess. Q1 2012 feels like ages away.
 
Lord_Exodia said:
lol, are you being serious. Yes maybe in 5-10 years it'll be 5% of their revenue. They have a huge business that is never going away with Quadro workstation cards. Yeah those little pixar movies that come out all the time, don't expect them to slow down. Moreover, just because PC's seem to be shrinking with ultrabooks on the way and less and less desktops being sold, don't think that nvidia isn't going to do something about it. Rumors and a few stories have already leaked that they are working to bring out an external solution where you can plug a graphics card into a external enclosure and interface through a bus, currently thunderbolt is being talked about, so they'll be selling discrete cards for some time to come.

Moreover how is you logic that since 5 years from now they are going to barely care about GPU's since it's only 5% of their total revenue so they are going to just lose focus and not be competitive now when it counts work exactly?
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I never stated workstation cards would be included in the 5%, was referring to the mid and high end consumer segments (aka 560-580), which is what you said Nvidia would be stressing over. Intel and AMD's next gen chips will cut further into the mid level cards. Those make up the mass majority of revenue for Nvidia in discrete graphics. Once they are even close to on par, along with the rampant growth of mobile, 5% is very realistic in 5 years.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20102167-94/nvidia-ceo-sees-tenfold-growth-in-mobile-chip-biz/
 
Well it was one more 6950 pe/oc for me anyway tri-fire with flashed cards on a eyfinity tripe 20" portrait 3160x1680 is fine for now ;)
 
alienate said:
I never stated workstation cards would be included in the 5%, was referring to the mid and high end consumer segments (aka 560-580), which is what you said Nvidia would be stressing over. Intel and AMD's next gen chips will cut further into the mid level cards. Those make up the mass majority of revenue for Nvidia in discrete graphics. Once they are even close to on par, along with the rampant growth of mobile, 5% is very realistic in 5 years.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20102167-94/nvidia-ceo-sees-tenfold-growth-in-mobile-chip-biz/
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You used the term discrete graphics cards which encompasses all geforce and all quadros.



Graphics cards are available in two forms: integrated and discrete. Integrated graphics are built into a computer's motherboard as a low-cost solution for undemanding uses (like watching video and displaying images). Typically, integrated graphics have limited capabilities and lack features like dedicated graphics memory. Discrete graphics cards plug into expansion slots on the motherboard so that graphics can be upgraded without replacing the computer itself. Prices vary considerably, with high-end discrete graphics cards costing 10 to 20 times as much as an entry-level discrete card. However, even an entry-level card is usually a significant upgrade over integrated graphics.

If you only meant geforce cards then your statement still is wrong because nvidia isn't going to go lightly on something that is a major part of their business now... as in today because they forsee that in 5 years to 10 years time it'll only be 5% of their total business. I mean what company does that? Still not clear 100% on what your trying to say.
 
Im glad a few months ago i bought 3 Powercolor 6970's for tri-fire coupled with my 2600K@4800Mhz, im getting to play all the upcoming AAA games without making a new purchase hehe, If all goes well ill probably be skipping the 7000 series.
 
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